Watching the HCR summit, the Dems' problem is what they're proposing is so milquetoast they don't

[coti]

have an argument to make.

They've already compromised themselves down so far they're left with very few points or ideas to respond with. They've cut out those ideas like the public option and Medicare buy-in and now are limited to arguing points within the framework of the private health insurance industry, within which there just aren't many upsides, no matter what you do.

Just as one example, we've been watching the parties argue back and forth about choice and competition. If I'd been there myself, I would have framed the issue of consumer choice being between private insurance plans and a federal plan- not between private plans- and made use of the large arsenal of statistics showing that Medicare is more efficient than the private companies.

Obviously, the Dems can't do that, though, since they're not proposing anything like that. They're stuck arguing points of minutia about which private plans consumers are going to have the opportunity to be screwed over by.

[WCGreen]

1. And meanwhile, the band played on and people without coverage are

getting sick and people in shitty jobs are stuck because they are staying so that their kids can have Health Care coverage....

[FrenchieCat]

2. The bills have been passed.

They have and are making their arguments.

If you don't think so, then vote for a fucking Republican next election...
cause your whine sure doesn't provide us with anything except "start over",
a Republican talking point.

[coti]

3. Why so angry?

Don't blame me because you have nothing but shitty arguments to make. You made your own bed.

[FrenchieCat]

4. If you think you've got an argument, I still haven't heard it.......

and yes, it's hard for me to tolerate those who would criticize ONLY
Democrats. BTW, My bed is fine.

[leftstreet]

5. The OP wasn't "whining," as you say

S/he was asking some valid questions about framing

Jeez

[spiritual_gunfighter]

6. Desperation n/t

[jdlh8894]

7. If the bills have been passed

through both houses ,then why haven't they been signed into law?

[Oregone]

9. "vote for a fucking Republican next election"

Thats not going to get anything closer to true universal health care. But if you are conceding that this goal is not to be accomplished by voting for Democrats, it leaves one with the option to sit at home an masturbate (instead of mentally masturbating at the polls). At least theyll have a happier finish, right?

Wow...its kind of a take-it-or-leave-it attitude: Democrats only compromise to Republicans, not liberals. On a forum that starts threads nightly about how evil Nader is for appealing to the disaffected (10 years later), this attitude couldn't be more expected.

[ThomCat]

13. You bitch and moan every time the democrats fail, and your only

comeback is "well, vote republican if you don't like it." It's as if you ACTIVELY OPPOSE the idea of improving the Democratic party. :wtf:

Your only idea is to worship the president and anything he does, and it if anything he does doesn't work, ignore that it doesn't work, assuming that nothing better could ever have been possible. I'm sorry, but that's a Stupid way to address politics.

You need to get off your damned high horse and stop attacking people for wanting the part to be better than it is, because we don't worship your hormonal crush, Obama.

[leftstreet]

14. "It's as if you ACTIVELY OPPOSE the idea of improving the Democratic party"

hmm....

[Oregone]

8. Pretty much

Its all lose/lose now, with shitty arguments to be made in the meantime. There is nothing to look forward to; nothing to have hope in here.

If they pass it, its going to bite them in the ass because its going to pass costs around in a shell game and probably amplify them. Eventually Republicans will cut the subsidy levels and itll be a world of hurt.

If they fail, well, they can't make the Republicans out as total villians. A whole lot of that bill needed to be killed. Had they forced the Republicans to kill true Universal Healthcare, it would of been a boon in the next election (where something real could of been passed).

This is the result of triangulation. Their only hope is that Americans are too stupid in the short term to realize the shortcomings, and that Americans cannot remember in the long term who gave them this

[jdlh8894]

10. It's not that Americans are too stupid---

it's the fools we elect that get arrogant and rich! Then it's just about them and not the little people. JMO

[coti]

11. Yup- pretty much.

There's nothing of substance to argue or fight for, and plenty to argue against.

[Captain Hilts]

12. When you give up important features of your plan BEFORE you sit at the table, that happens.