Should we clone Neanderthals?

[angelicwoman]

"Newly developed techniques could make cloning Neanderthal cells or body parts a reality within a few years. The ability to use the genes of extinct hominins is going to force the field of paleoanthropology into some unfamiliar ethical territory. There are still technical obstacles, but soon it could be possible to use that long-extinct genome to safely create a healthy, living Neanderthal clone. Should it be done?"

Read the rest of the piece from Archaeology magazine here: http://www.archaeology.org/1003/etc/neanderthals.html

What do you guys think?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Yes, absolutely.

It would be immoral not to.

[Fumesucker]

10. Perhaps someday your own clone will be brought into a world where he or she is all alone..

And the subject of constant ridicule and cruel jokes.

It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. That would be awesome.

Then I could live in a world of flying cars and hot air piped in from Mexico.

[Fumesucker]

34. They wouldn't need to pipe in the hot air by then..

Hopefully the Gulf of Mexico won't be boiling...

But I wouldn't count on it.

[GrantDem]

2. No!

We have enough repubs running around as it is.

:evilgrin:

[guitar man]

17. That is SO condascending

:rofl:

[YOY]

3. Do we even need to?

One more Republican voter coming up...

[Bluebear]

4. We have enough Teabaggers in the world, thank you. nt

[slackmaster]

5. Not just yes but HELL YES!

I'd want one to be my personal bodyguard.

[Fumesucker]

7. Consider that Homo Sapiens Sapiens quite possibly wiped out Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis..

Which is likely the meaner and more warlike species?

[TZ]

13. LOL. You do realize that scientists have found

what are considered "Neanderthal" genes in our genome, that its just as likely that they were "bred" out of existence with us?

[Fumesucker]

19. We share something like 98% of our genome with chimpanzees..

Doesn't mean we can breed with them either.

[rfranklin]

28. Yes, but occasional sex is possible...

Especially after sharing a banana split at the soda fountain.

[guitar man]

32. !!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Swamp Rat]

66. LOLOL!!!

:rofl:

[scubadude]

24. I'd be interested in seeing that data...

I have read exactly the opposite, that there is no indication of cross breeding within our genetic code.

I admit any study can be wrong, so I'm very curious to see where you are getting that info from.

Scuba

[Fumesucker]

37. That's my understanding also.. No indication of cross breeding..

[RedCloud]

39. Many neadnerthal women died giving birth with the large head fetus...

I think that did them in. Head cannot get so big that birthing is too tough or deadly.

I was taught that shit many moons ago. My apologies if it truly is shit these days.

[KittyWampus]

42. Has any archeological evidence presented showing Neanderthals & homo sapien sapien

cohabiting?

[laughingliberal]

48. That would be interesting

I have been looking for stories the past months showing they have found evidence of this but have been unable to locate any. I find the idea intriguing. Do you have a source?

[RedCloud]

35. Strange that Pastor Rick doesn't push to call us "Hetero Sapiens"!

[Fumesucker]

36. Duzy!

[dixiegrrrrl]

6. They would have jobs waiting at Geico, no?

[Throd]

8. Pay them less for menial labor.

[fascisthunter]

9. why... there are plenty in the GOP

[sufrommich]

11. Yes, yes we should. Because it would be so cool. I want

real dinosaurs too.

[yurbud]

12. would it have human rights? How would it feel when it figures out there's no one

for it to mate with?

[Xithras]

30. Of course. "Human" references the genus homo.

It isn't specific to sapiens.

There's also a line of thought suggesting that various species of homo were probably genetically close enough to allow crossbreeding. It's important to keep in mind that any Neanderthal bred today would be raised in our society, speak our language, and follow our own cultural norms. They wouldn't be wearing loincloths and pining for the lost mammoths. As such, there's a fairly decent chance that he or she will consider Sapiens to be a perfectly acceptable mating choice (though only time will tell if any Sapiens will reciprocate those feelings).

[semillama]

41. Reciprocate feelings?

Ahem. Billy Joel and Christie Brinkley. Ric Ocasek and Paulina Porizkova.

As long as the Neanderthal has a decent singing voice, I'd say he'd do ok. heck, maybe we could get a few of them to be linemen for the Detroit Lions (as long as we are talking about the improbable).

[librechik]

14. yes, for science--they're not talking about a whole human clone anyway

just the cells, for study and I say why not.

[Liquorice]

69. What's scary is they ARE talking about a whole clone. They even mention colonies of

these Neanderthal clones that we would study with "their consent." No way is this ethical. In fact, it's super creepy.

[customerserviceguy]

15. All Republican jokes aside

We'd have some true ethical problems. Would the Neanderthals be considered full humans, with full human rights, or would they be considered as animals, since they are not of the species Homo sapiens? Would they "belong" to the scientists that created them, or would they be considered "children" of the woman (women?) who donated an ovum and/or a womb?

We've never dealt with the problem of having two fully intelligent species on the planet since the dawn of history. We know how things turned out the last time Neanderthals were here, and had to fight off the Cro-Magnons, unsuccessfully. Do our ethics prepare us to deal with that co-existence again?

[Fumesucker]

16. We lack the wisdom to play God..

Even our Gods are remarkably flawed, how much worse are we ourselves?

[Warren DeMontague]

18. Depends. How do they taste?

I'm kidding! KIDDING!

[Fumesucker]

20. More than likely similar to pork..

Obligatory Fried Green Tomatoes "That's the best barbecue I ever ate" reference..

[Kingofalldems]

21. GEICO might even fund it

[Blue-Jay]

23. I will name him Kazz.

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. Did it ever bother you that there weren't other Neadertals around,

that Kazz was pretty much on his own? (If I misremember I apologize - it's been 20+ years) After all, they existed for 200,000 years before Sapiens showed up - there should have been a much higher ratio of his kind in the population mix.

[Blue-Jay]

29. Not really. There was also only one alien.

It was just part of the story.

I used to see Phil Farmer in a coffee shop occasionally when I was in grad school. Nice guy.

[Warpy]

25. Have you seen facial reconstructions of Neanderthals?

They were human and wouldn't draw stares in any shopping mall. Forget those old Natl. Geo. illustrations you saw in the 50s and 60s, forensic reconstruction is quite different. In addition, we know they were redheads, that part of the genome has been reconstructed, along with the existence of the hyoid bone necessary for human speech.

They looked enough like us that if we didn't interbreed successfully, we sure as hell tried to.

In addition, excavation of their living and burial sites has turned up a complex culture that made extensive use of whatever they had at hand. One adhesive they used was made up of over 30 substances and acted much like a Neanderthal hot glue gun. A cloned Neanderthal would be unlikely to be mentally deficient, in other words.

I'll leave the questions over cloning to the ethicists, but it would be fascinating to get to know our remote relatives. I'd prefer to know whether or not we'd interbred first, though. While it wouldn't solve all the ethical issues of cloning, it would tell us how well such a person would integrate into our society.

[Xithras]

33. Indeed. I love this photo of a modern neanderthal reconstruction...

It reminds us that, while Neanderthals WERE a distinct species, we were incredibly closely related both genetically and visually. Shave this guy, put him in modern clothes, and send him down the street...it would take a sharp eye or a doctor to tell the difference.



He looks kind of like my uncle.

[Warpy]

38. I really like the kid

[AlienGirl]

50. I knew a family that looked just like that, two adorable bright kids

[YOY]

49. OMG...It's Tawd!!! You betcha!

n/t

[Quantess]

27. So we can do experiments on them?

Google "malish monkey"

[AlienGirl]

51. That would be the outcome, yes.

[Quantess]

53. Malish is/was a Rhesus monkey

Rhesus monkeys are considered to be very closely related to humans in many ways, and so they are subjected to cruel experiments, in the name of research.

http://www.all-creatures.org/sof/med-malish.html

Neanderthals are considered to be even more closely related to Homo Sapiens than Rhesus monkeys. Does that mean we should subject Neanderthals to cruel research, in the name of advancing Homo Sapiens?

[HopeHoops]

31. Nah, we have enough Republicans as it is.

I know, I know. That wasn't fair to Neanderthals.

[pscot]

40. +1

Beat me to it. :hi:

[frogmarch]

43. Yes, but

after reading the entire article I realize how difficult it would be to successfully clone a genuine Neanderthal. Still, if it ever can be done, I have no doubt that it will be done. I have no moral objection to attempting to create a living Neanderthal, except when I think of the suffering the "flops" might experience before they die.

[maxrandb]

44. Don't we already have enough Republicans?

[era veteran]

45. Absolutely not

Our morals haven't evolved enough.

[On the Road]

46. We Will Probably Decide Not to Do It

But I would bet anything the South Koreans will go right ahead.

[AngryAmish]

47. bring on the cave-man hookers!

[jmowreader]

52. Already been done.

See the Tea Bag Express, the Alabama Republican Party and anyone driving for Arkansas Best Freight.

[agent46]

54. Family Vote

I say Nay. Wife says Yeah. I think it's better to let them go. Though, if we did clone a Neanderthal, I bet we'd be very surprised at what we got. For some reason I think it would be a very human creature in almost every way except with a big surprising twist - a degree of emotional intelligence unheard of in our species. There would be a certain symmetry to that I think.

:hippie:

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bridgit]

56. Yes. No doubt. Someone has to time all these Mercedes

[Quantess]

57. Really? You are taking the time to tell everyone that you are an

insensitive asshole. That's great if it gives you points, anywhere.

[bridgit]

58. I am, generally, disinclined to post back to anyone that has a screen name so similiar...

To a Quantus Airlines corporate advertisement


But for crap-heads like you there does come a time ;)

[Quantess]

59. You think this shit is funny?

No! It's serious.

[bridgit]

61. *I* think that *you* do not have any idea what you are talking about. That's what I think

In my estimation...you have no idea what is serious and what is not unless & until you state whatever it is your con-tension truly is. Until then...you are destined to remain an abstract - in a void, state your problem or not that decision is yours not mine

[Quantess]

64. I will never take you seriously again, I promise.

[bridgit]

65. The feeling is rather more than mutual it is in fact a certitude

[Quantess]

60. Do you have an opinion of monkey research?

I would be interested to learn the benefits to society.

Don't worry. I won't be too mean.

[bridgit]

63. Ha mother-fucking ha! A true 'liberal' suggesting they'll be not *too* mean when in & by fact

'they' are - admit it or die trying to do so :spray:

[Quantess]

67. Until tomorrow.

[bridgit]

70. You're gibbering, be more specific much more

[Quantess]

73. It does matter whether you bothered to look into "Malish monkey"

which you did not.

You are an obvious anti-intellectual, anti-curious jerk.

[bridgit]

77. It would appear: that you have little clue as to the origins of some of the more utilitarian

tools having been unearthed in The Valley Neander (NEA-ander, The Vallllllley Neander? I do just think that some people have no fucking clue what is what is not and what will never ever be like cloning 'neanderthals' :eyes:) - you'd care to fixate on the """""Malish monkey"""""? Cool. Its your dime, so drop it and you can start here, its close enough, and I am I am saddened by the bigotries you foist upon whole demographics of this world

http://maps.google.com/maps?um=1&hl=en&q=the%20valley%20neander&ndsp=18&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=il

People trapped within such brittle, intransgent views, are, at least in my experience, so god damn boring as to put the rested back to sleep

[bridgit]

75. "Until tomorrow"? Rather not play I suggest unto thee my liege...

with a double majored Shakespearian performance artist for I *am* here to suggest instead that it is more than rather that but this: "Until the morrow. Morrow. Write it down. For by the pricking of *your* thumbs something this way came as an ignoble matter void of shared light-hearted-ness & brevities so lacking their want their need - Sweet Dreams" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pPP0t5q7uM

[Quantess]

76. Oh, wow, I guess I have no choice except to lay down on the pavement in front of 7-11

and say, yes, bridgit is the most awesomest!!!! Pour that slurpee into my mouth.

[bridgit]

78. Sadly, I am not your therapist, were you in the right forum that would be more clear - hopefully ~

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=276

[Quantess]

81. You are the the most pathetic answer, aren't you? You are slightly hilarious, and mostly stupid.

[bridgit]

83. Sounds more like you're trying to develop a breakfast cereal that will fit through your teeth

Which is fine because breakfast is your most important meal of the day

[agent46]

84. Wow

You're responding to someone I put on ignore quite a while ago. Guess I have good radar. B-)

[JI7]

62. when Cloned people die, do they go to heaven or hell ?

does god love cloned people ?

[struggle4progress]

68. We probably won't ever get "Neanderthal cells or body parts" --

what we'll get is "cells grown from reconstituted Neanderthal nucleic acid fragments using essential cell machinery from some other species." Building a credible Neanderthal genome is likely to be a tricky and probably incomplete project, and of course the mitochondrial genome must be reconstructed separately from the nuclear genome. To grow body parts, you have to send the right chemical development signals differentially to different parts of a protopart with proper dose and timing -- and since this problem hasn't been solved yet for humans, it's not clear why we should be optimistic about solving the problem with a reconstructed genome from degraded old surviving nucleic acid fragments from an extinct species

[Swamp Rat]

71. Welcome to DU!

:hi: :popcorn:

[bridgit]

72. Pft, no shit, dude, and not a momemt too soon

[readmoreoften]

74. Why would we do that when we have Republicans?

No, I'm sorry. That's so insulting to neanderthals, who cared enough to treat their sick and bury their dead. Truly human. Sure, let's clone them.

[DFW]

79. Delicate, due to inevitable legal challenges from predictable sources:

Rupert Murdoch has a highly-paid legal staff, and the copyright infringement suit from Fox "News" would be swift and fierce.

[Political Heretic]

80. I read that as, Should we clone Netherlands?

I was like HELL YES! I want fifty more of them! :D

[DailyGrind51]

82. Don't we have enough teabaggers already?

[Drunken Irishman]

85. A real-life Homer Simpson?

[hunter]

86. Oh bother. We haven't even hybridized chimps and humans yet.

Not that I know of, anyways.

:shrug: