I was furious when Clinton chose Gore in 1992

[dsc]

I was only out for a couple of years when the 1992 election came around and I was still in the angry, defiant, pure gay phase of things. Clinton was close to my last choice in the primaries due to his state's terrible gay rights record. Tsongas was my candidate followed by Brown. Once Clinton won though and started making promises I softened and was prepared to work for him as a volunteer. Then he named Gore VP. Gore's record on gay rights was dreadful. He ran as an anti gay Senate candidate in 1984 and as an anti gay Presidential candidate in 1988. I didn't believe he had changed his positions. So all I did was vote for the ticket. No money, no volunteering, just vote.

Yet when Gore ran in 2000, I strongly supported him. He was the first Presidential candidate to go to the HRC, he supported ENDA, hate crimes, ending DADT, and appointing gays to high level positions. Gore had changed his position. I don't know for sure what changed Gore. I suspect it was people like David Mixner. We have coming out day for a reason. Gays come out so that people can know we aren't evil child molesting perverts out to recruit your kids. We are your teachers, your deacons, your children, your siblings, your friends, your basketball stars, your favorite movie stars, and so much more. We know people change their minds on this issue from personal contact. Why wouldn't politicians be the same?

If Gore announced he was running for President today, I would be signing up to volunteer tomorrow. Gore changed from 1988. Haven't we all?

[cooolandrew]

1. I don't want Gore to run to be frank, the film American blackout made me furious at him.

I respect his stand on the environment but I do say people should watch the film American blackout. With this new info(to me personally) it makes it's probably even more the case where you have Kucinich who has been principled all down the line.

[rosesaylavee]

23. I haven't seen that film

but watched the trailer just now because of your post...

It is understood (at least here on DU and other progressive DEM sites) that the black vote has been undermined ever since the 2000 election. There were illegal actions all across the country - not just Florida. St. Louis, 'Pick a county in' Ohio were also sites of illegal activity on the part of RWingers in 2000 and beyond.

I don't blame Gore for that the loss of the 2000 election - the highest court in the land illegally gave the election to *co. Gore's only other choice after that action would have been to start a civil war. He chose not to... if he had known what was to follow, he might have but hindsight usually works that way.

[stuartrida]

28. Dennis "I am prolife and anti-flag burning until I run for President" Kucinich

has been principled down the line? I don't think so.

[stevedeshazer]

30. Have you ever changed your views?

I have.

[Alexander]

33. Immediately before a run for public office?

I doubt it. I certainly haven't.

But Kucinich...

[stevedeshazer]

38. LOL!

Have you run for public office?

:hi:

[NNN0LHI]

2. Gore and Lieberman were the only two US Senators to vote for Gulf War I

I have forgiven Gore for this huge mistake and would vote for him tommorrow..

Not the same for the warmonger Lieberman though.

Don

[dsc]

6. I don't think that is true

We had more than a two seat majority in that Senate and Bush won that vote, so I don't think Gore and Lieberman were unique. I also think they were right on that vote.

[NNN0LHI]

8. Its true

And if people didn't fall for the "Babies being thrown from the incubator.", line of crap there would have been no war.

Don

[dsc]

12. I am not saying they didn't vote for it

I am saying they weren't the only 2. I just don't think that is accurate. The baby thing was a lie but the invasion of Kuawit wasn't.

[NNN0LHI]

19. The invasion of Kuwait was none of our business

This "worlds policeman" insanity is what got us where we are today in Iraq. I am surprised you don't realize that.

Don

[dsc]

22. Oil made it our business

as did the humanitarian crisis. Allowing that invasion to stand would have let Saudi Arabia be next.

[NNN0LHI]

25. Correction: Gore and Lieberman were two of 10 Dems who voted to attack Iraq

That Iraq had plans to attack Saudi Arabia was another lie used to justify attacking Iraq. Iraq supposedly was massing soldiers on the SA border. Then some newspaper got hold of the satellite imagery that showed that was a lie too.

Don

[dsc]

27. I am sure that if we had let Kuwait stand it would have been a matter of time

I don't think they would have done it the next day but eventually they would have.

[The Count]

11. They were wrong, less blatantly so than the IWR voters, but you're right -

I am pretty sure more democrats voted for it - in fact I think most of them did with the memorable exception of Kerry (and I'd wager to think, Kennedy).
Before you say Gore was right, let's remember, that while we did have an international alliance, and there was a conflict going on at the time, we had incited that conflict, built Saddam, and engineered some doozies of lies - such as the moving babies in an incubator story told by the Iraq ambassador's daughter at UN 9disguised as a refugee). So that vote WAS wrong, I am sure that Gore himself knows by now.

[Wetzelbill]

15. that was one of Wellstone's first votes

He came in voting against a way in Iraq and went out voting against a war in Iraq. :) Great man. :)

[The Count]

17. So, maybe you know the vote count - how many with Welstone?

Not that many, I'm guessing - I remember the drums of war very successful at the time.
I recall most Dems voted for it.

[Wetzelbill]

18. not offhand, it seems like there wasn't many voting against it

it was a pretty successful run up to war. I'll have to look it up.

[Make7]

26. Vote results for S.J.Res. 2

YEAs ---52
Bond (R-MO)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brown (R-CO)
Bryan (D-NV)
Burns (R-MT)
Chafee (R-RI)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cohen (R-ME)
Craig (R-ID)
D'Amato (R-NY)
Danforth (R-MO)
Dole (R-KS)
Domenici (R-NM)
Durenberger (R-MN)
Garn (R-UT)
Gore (D-TN)
Gorton (R-WA)
Graham (D-FL)
Gramm (R-TX)
Hatch (R-UT)
Heflin (D-AL)
Heinz (R-PA)
Helms (R-NC)
Jeffords (R-VT)
Johnston (D-LA)
Kassebaum (R-KS)
Kasten (R-WI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Mack (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nickles (R-OK)
Packwood (R-OR)
Pressler (R-SD)
Reid (D-NV)
Robb (D-VA)
Roth (R-DE)
Rudman (R-NH)
Seymour (R-CA)
Shelby (D-AL)
Simpson (R-WY)
Smith (R-NH)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Symms (R-ID)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Wallop (R-WY)
Warner (R-VA)

NAYs ---47
Adams (D-WA)
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bentsen (D-TX)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boren (D-OK)
Bradley (D-NJ)
Bumpers (D-AR)
Burdick, Quentin S (D-ND)
Byrd (D-WV)
Conrad (D-ND)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeConcini (D-AZ)
Dixon (D-IL)
Dodd (D-CT)
Exon (D-NE)
Ford (D-KY)
Fowler (D-GA)
Glenn (D-OH)
Grassley (R-IA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatfield (R-OR)
Hollings (D-SC)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerrey (D-NE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Metzenbaum (D-OH)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Mitchell (D-ME)
Moynihan (D-NY)
Nunn (D-GA)
Pell (D-RI)
Pryor (D-AR)
Riegle (D-MI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanford (D-NC)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Sasser (D-TN)
Simon (D-IL)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wirth (D-CO)

Not Voting - 1
Cranston (D-CA)

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=102&session=1&vote=00002

[The Count]

53. Wow! Only 10 voting for! Amazing! Thanks for this. Interesting.

So, W got more Democrats supporting him than Poppy did? Astounding.

[charlie]

20. Most of them didn't

Maybe a little over a half dozen voted for it. True to form, that idiot Lieberman co-sponsored the resolution.

[The Count]

7. Interesting - and good - that this vote is still remembered (I didn't know)

I'd say, Gore had ample time and opportunity to PROVE he wouldn't repeat that idiocy again (most notably in 2003 when he almost organized a fillibuster in the Senate against IWR - undone by Gephardt & Joe)
So, yeah, in light of his entire career, DEEDS not FUND RAISING RHETORIC - he'd have my vote.

[charlie]

3. National Right to Life

used to consider him one of their own -- they assessed his House voting record as being against abortion 84% of the time. He was also the DLC's first presidential candidate. Gore has indeed changed. Markedly.

[dsc]

5. I wouldn't go that far

Gore was pro life on the issues of the 1980's which were largly government funding of abortion. He never advocated overturning Roe.

[charlie]

9. You know of his vote

for an amendment to a civil rights bill that would define a zygote as "a person", right? In any case, that was NRL's assessment, not mine, and largely for his House years, not Senate.

[dsc]

16. To be honest I didn't

[ThomWV]

4. I Have Voted For Him 3 Times - I Expect To Vote For Him Again

[mancandy]

10. Sorry, I'm just not that forgiving....

I too was angry when Gore was chosen. I will never forget his anti gay campaigns and his photo opps with that sick bastard Fred Phelps. I'm fairly certain that when push comes to shove, he will toss mine and my partners rights out the window if he could gain some political clout in doing so.

[dsc]

13. So there is no one in your personal life who was anti gay prior to your coming out

who would support you totally now? I find that a little hard to believe. And if I am right in my suspicion what is the difference between them and Gore?

[mancandy]

29. The difference is

that personal relationships are far different then electing and supporting a political candidate who I dont know or have ever met. I only rely on what they say, and trust me, I've heard and seen enough from Gore to know that he's a snake in the grass and would sell us out in a heartbeat. Sorry, but I want consistency when it comes to gay rights. I know I may be too hard on him, but my memory is too long to trust him

[ldf]

32. "snake in the grass" and "sell us out in a hearbeat"

???

maybe you should quit living in the past.

personally, i smell an agenda.

people can change, and gore certainly has.

NO ONE has been more wronged by this country than gore.

he may be the only one smart enough to deal with getting us out of the crapper that we have been thrown in.

edit, grammar

[mancandy]

57. Yes, you better believe I have an agenda....

and dont tell me about "being wronged" by this country. Until you have lived life as a gay man in the south, you have no idea what it feels to be mocked and ridiculed by people who dont know you. Gore was one of those people and he did so in my adult lifetime. Just because he comes here now is a darling for heterosexual liberals doesnt make him a shoe in for those who had to live with a manufactured stigma buttressed by people like Gore. And if this comes off as rude, I do apologize. I feel so strongly about this issue and have been personally affected by it that I cant possibly be as forgiving as others

[Madspirit]

34. Deleted moved down

[IndyOp]

14. People can change? No! Shocking. I refuse to believe it.

I refuse to believe that Al Gore could become pro-civil rights when he was anti-gay. I refuse to believe that Al Gore could be against NAFTA when he worked so hard to pass it.

I also refuse to believe that John Edwards might be truly, truly sorry that he co-sponsored the IWR.

I will continue to judge them by who they once were when they did something that I condemn. The possibility of sincere change is not allowed.

[cascadiance]

31. And do you think Reagan continued to be a pro New Deal Democrat later in his career?

He started off as a liberal Democrat who was a president of the Screen Actor's Guild in the 1930's and who supported FDR's New Deal program at the time. Do you think that the Republicans hold that against him today after he changed into what he did?

David Horowitz also used to be a writer who wrote for liberal rags such as Ramparts during the 60's, is now quite on the opposite side of the political spectrum.

Same for David Brock, who started off supporting the Republicans and going after Clinton, etc. and is now leading Media Matters in going after Bush!

People DO change, both for better and for worse! Gore was also a big part of the DLC until the 2000 election and afterward too! I think he learned a lot from that election about both who his real friends were, and what were the right things to continue to pursue.

[IndyOp]

39. I can tell from your reply that I should've added some of these to my post...

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

:-)

[cascadiance]

42. Yeah... But it still applies to many others here on this thread!

Perhaps they were the "Reagan Democrats" that thought Reagan was still the liberal Democrat as a reason for why they voted for him!

[IndyOp]

44. You are so right - that your comment applies to many others on this thread

and on this board in general. I understand people being cautious about deciding who can be trusted - did they really change or are they making campaign-season comments - still I become really frustrated with people who pick one issue and bash a candidate over and over with that issue without being at all willing to consider that they may have really changed. Senator Byrd really did change from a racist member of the KKK to a man who respected diversity, he changed from someone who went along with the crowd during Vietnam to one of the few Senators who stood on the floor of the Senate and condemned military action in Iraq. I believe pain can transform people - including the pain we experience when we realize that we've done wrong in the past...

:hi:

[cascadiance]

52. I'm especially concerned about corporate influence now!

So I can understand to some degree a lot of the skepticism here. I think the better word is to be skeptical, but not overly judgemental, until you feel you really know what they are doing right now and where they stand right now.

I think that fighting corporate influence is THE fundamental change that MUST happen starting in 2009, if not earlier. We need to wean ourselves off of a corporatocracy serving government. That means real substantive efforts to put in things like clean elections campaigns, putting justices on to SCOTUS that will reverse the REAL judicial activist decisions like "corporate personhood", that you know that the duplicitous justices like Alito and Roberts won't do even though they claim to be "followers of the constitution".

It's going to need some politicians with real courage to follow their convictions (and the wishes and welfare of the American people), even if it is not necessarily financially rewarding and might be pretty difficult at times.

So caution IS good, but I think we have to be careful not to judge people to harshly for what they've done in the past. What they are about at present is important.

I could jump onto the Barack Obama bandwagon, but he still doesn't show me as much substance that I feel I need with these issues, even though he's fantastic with style. And he very well might be someone that will have the substance that I'm looking for. But he has to come out and show it soon for me to jump behind if there are others I can still vote for available that I feel more true to these issues.

I see Gore now as a man of passion that is trying to help with the Global Warming issues, etc. and do what's right. That he has learned from his mistakes in the past is a good thing, and that he puts energy into and is willing to take risks to take stands he cares about not just for money, etc. is what helps him out in my book. And I too was concerned about his campaign in 2000 as well and was close to voting for Nader then.

[Madspirit]

36. What a Sad Life Outlook...n/t

[IndyOp]

37. I see from your reply that I should've added some of these to my post...

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

:-)

[Madspirit]

41. Ooops

Sometimes I have to be hit with something. Sorry...<g>
Lee

[salin]

49. bwahahaha

you're cracking me up! :hi:

[terrya]

21. I know that Gore had a less than stellar attitude towards gay people.

But it is remarkable how much he changed on the issue. Like you said, in 2000 he supported ENDA, hate crimes, ending DADT. I believe he still opposes same-sex marriage...but, you know? A few years ago, Al and Tipper Gore co-wrote a book about families in the United States. Basically, in pictures and text, profiling the different kinds of families in this country. And...there were a few same-sex families profiled in that book. I think that says something about his change regarding gay people.

And yes, if Gore announced that he was running, I, also, would volunteer for him in a heartbeat.


This is an excellent post, as always, dsc. Thank you.

[Mabus]

24. One of the first funerals that Phelps protested at was Gore, Sr.

and they called Gore, Jr. a fag lover among other things.

In 2000 the Log Cabin Republicans helped spread the pictures of a fundraiser in 1988 that showed the Phelps Clan, Gore, then Gov. Joan Finney and others. They did it because they could and because it helped hurt Gore's support among the GLBT communities. In 2003 he and Tipper released a couple of books that celebrated the diversity of families.

Today, the GOP is more afraid than ever of Gore and his increasing popularity.

I support Gore for president in 2008. I was a big advocate for him in 2000 and I wanted him to run in 2004. We need Gore in the White House.

fwiw, I've changed a lot since 1988 too. To tell you the truth, gay rights were something that wasn't a front burner issue for me. I know it is cliche to say that I have a number of gay friends but I do. It wasn't until the Clinton/Gore administration that I started thinking about things like gay marriage, adoption, etc. all because of the military question. GLBT people are my fellow citizens and they deserve the same exact rights that I and all other straight Americans have: the option to marry & all the rights that inherent in any marriage, have children, adopt, make medical decisions, etc.

[Madspirit]

35. Politicians are People Too

Lesbian here. I think Gore had an epiphany, a defining moment. I think his change is real and has substance. I trust him, probably more than any of the others. ....AND he too has been screwed by this system. I cannot hold the past against a person. We don't yet have time machines and there isn't much that can be done about the past EXCEPT to change in the here and now and I think Gore has truly changed. I would love Gore to run. I would work for his campaign.
I didn't used to like Tipper either with her censoring music CRAP but she isn't running so..... I hope every day that Gore will announce...
Lee

[kerry-is-my-prez]

40. Look at Robert Byrd's history - he sure has changed....

n/t

[Rosemary2205]

43. I don't believe Robert Byrd was ever a racist.

IMHO the man was stuck in a system where for a white man to survive he had to join the crowd. That time didn't just suck for blacks, it sucked for everyone but the power elite. Even whites were not free to choose their own associations. That time was toxic for everyone.

I don't admire his record on civil rights, but I don't condemn him for it either.

[Madspirit]

46. haha...gee

I knew/know lots of men from that era who did not join the Klan and who survived quite well. I think he has changed but to be in the Klan you do have to be a racist. It's kind of one of the prerequisites... He WAS a racist. He has changed. Hopefully.
Lee

[Rosemary2205]

50. Maybe it's just a different experience.

I've spent most of my life in Georgia and nearly every white man I've ever met over 80 who was raised in an upper class or upper middle class family had some sort of dealing with the KKK in younger days. Some of them are racists and some aren't. Some just needed to know it was safe to make other choices.

I'll grant you my knowledge of elderly white men is somewhat limited and as a woman from a multi-racial family I'm conditioned to be less apt to fling the racist label about.

[Madspirit]

56. 53 year old Texan here

I too know about racism and old men. My conservative father...RIP...never would have joined the Klan. My maternal grandfather...Rest in Hell....was affiliated with them and he was a straight-up racist. The police chief in Houston, when I was growing up, was Herman Short. He was a grand dragon in the Klan. My grandfather was a Houston cop at that time and was absolutely friendly to the Klan and liked to take black men out and beat them.
There are many reasons I left home at 15 and many reasons I have nothing to do with anyone who shares my DNA and haven't even seen a relative in almost 20 years. I've made my family out of friends and lovers.
Lee

[The Count]

54. I am not even sure he isn't anymore. he was disgusting to Clinton, and his record

on some issues is hardly acceptable to me.
But on war, he's been a leader - so I keep this split admiration for him - with a darker feeling lurking.

[Nikki Stone1]

45. Tsongas was my candidate too

But why knock Gore now?

[dsc]

51. Did you read my post?

I really don't think you did.

[Nikki Stone1]

59. I read it. While it sounds like you've changed your opinion, you've cast a shadow

with both the title and topic of the thread. Why bring up past sins if they are truly past? I remember reading your post and thinking, what's the point of this? If you support the guy, creating a whole thread on past sins (especially since there were others on the same topic linked to the Log Cabin Republican website story about Fred Phelps) just didn't seem helpful.

[KG]

47. politicians for the most part have no core values, besides those that will get them elected.

[RestoreGore]

48. All of these posts are predicated on the opinion that people think he is running

Will anyone care if he doesn't? But this is proof positive that what he stated was correct. Any run would not be about the future and issues, but dragging out everything from 2000 and this would be all many would be doing.

[The Count]

55. I'd support him. But it is fair to evaluate one's entire record - for Gore it comes positive,

His senate record was obviously mixed, his VP record, much better, his candidate for POTUS - OK, then admirable during the recount(that matters a lot in my book - he wasn't afraid to fight like others now running). Then his activism against the war, for Global Warming - absolutely extraordinary. All needs to be weighted - for any candidate.
For instance, I don't get how Edwards' supporters erase from his mind his only proven record - the one term in the Senate - where very little distinguished him from Lieberman.(actually, I think Lieberman voted against the bankruptcy law, against the partial abortions ban - so, better than Edwards) Campaign rhetoric does not count- expecially when merely stating what's popular at the time.

[CreekDog]

58. You need to be practical about this

You want to vote and support the candidate that has the combination of the stands you want, the ability to get them accomplished which includes getting elected.

This is not to say that morals don't matter, but they must be put in context of what you want the people you vote for to achieve.

So, in regards to Gore, who has had an excellent record, great experience and has been fighting the good fight on so many issues these past 8 years, I am not going to place those good things behind what he did in the 1980's and even in 1991 --things many of us agreed with him on, but over time came around.

And I certainly won't let things he said or stood for in the 1980's rule out a good candidate and leave me to choose lesser candidates. I mean, if it comes down to him and a lesser candidate, his work of the past 8 years is more important to me than what he did in the 80's.

And it should be to you too.

[Raksha]

60. I know I've become much more tolerant and accepting of gays

as I've grown older. Compared to the way I am now, you could even call the way I was in the Sixties and Seventies "homophobic" and it wouldn't be that far off. But that was the norm back then, even for liberals (at least heterosexual ones).

When I changed was when I realized that being gay wasn't a "lifestyle choice" and that gays had no more "chosen" to be gay than I had "chosen" to be straight...or left-handed, for that matter. It was a fairly quick and painless change--I just left behind my previous attitudes like so much useless baggage.

I imagine Al Gore feels the same way.