Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Do you feel the patent system needs to be reformed?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 01:22 PM
Original message
Poll question: Do you feel the patent system needs to be reformed?
Edited on Sun Apr-29-07 01:34 PM by originalpckelly
I ask because it's such a slow and lumbering system. There has to be a way in the 21st century to get patents approved in less than two or more years. It's ridiculous. I've been thinking of a new system lately that would help small time inventors protect their ideas and unique innovations, but also reduce the hassle of doing so. It would work much like the copyright system. In the current copyright system there are basically three ways to copyright something:

1. Maintain documentary evidence that the work was created by the party or parties that originally created the work. All unique material is capable of being copyrighted so long as there is not an explicit release into the public domain, or some other non-copyright use agreement like the "creative commons license". This is so even if the following two other methods of copyrighting a work are not visible or completed.

2. Place a "copyright mark" on the medium containing the work, this alerts potential copyright infringers that a piece is not public domain or some other type of freely usable work under a different license. This will stand even better in a court of law, because the offending party had fair warning that the material was copyrighted.

3. You may send in an actual copyright registration form to the United States Copyright Office for a relatively low cost fee of $45 in most cases, as well as a non-returnable form of the media to be copyrighted. This is a very substantial way to prove a copyright case, because it is an official record.


This system works damn well, because even people who don't officially register a copyright can defend their copyright in court if they have documentary evidence that the copyright has been violated. With the placement of the mark, there is more hard evidence that the media is copyrighted, as well as when it is officially registered.

There would obviously need be some minor differences if patents were to be implemented in this same way, but this system could reduce the overhead of the patent office, reduce the wait time to file a patent, and even protect inventors who maintain documentary evidence they produced a unique innovation before a party or parties whom infringe on that unique innovation.

I propose a "general patent" mark. This mark would be placeable on any device an inventor believes contains a unique innovation. If the technology in this device was reverse engineered, the patent infringement suit would have a more severe penalty/civil remedy than a case wherein it was totally unknown to the infringers that the device contained unique innovations. It would be two letters inside of a rectangle the letters "G" and "P" to indicate "general patent".

I propose a registered patent mark, to replace the current patent registration system. Instead of having to list every single patent registration number in a product, a single registration number would indicate a record in an official "registered patent" archive to be maintained by the United States Patent and Trademark Office. The mark would be an "R" and a "P" in side of a rectangle to signify "registered patent".

Along with an Internet based patent registration system, which would place kiosks in local postal offices for the use of individuals without computers and Internet access, and allow those with computers and Internet access to simply register their patents on the Internet.

The patent office will no longer determine if a patent contains a unique innovation, that responsibility will go to patent courts trying patent infringement suits. The patent office will be responsible, as I said before, of maintaining a central archive of this information, and they will still have to categorize patents, but this will greatly reduce the waiting time to register a patent, because they will not have to search through their database for every single application, just when there is a patent infringement suit, and even that will be easy because they will just electronically send that to the patent judge.

Judges who work on patent infringement cases must already determine patent infringement, this task of determining whether or not the specific innovations claimed by the plaintiff in a patent infringement suit is already a part of their jobs. The only thing that they would have to do that is new, is use a computer to search for descriptions in the category of documents sent to the judge by the US Patent and Trademark Office from their archive. If the US Patent and Trademark Office defines categories narrowly enough, then there shouldn't be much for the judge to look at.

In other cases of patent infringement, where there was not a placement of a general patent or registered patent mark, the judges would be required to sift through the documentary evidence provided by the party or parties whom produced a certain innovation, to determine whether or not a legitimate claim of patent infringement exists.

In all cases judges presiding over these cases would be able to give civil remedies and penalties when needed. There would also be a mandatory civil penalty (a fine) from the plaintiff to the defendant in a patent infringement case, were the case thrown out by a judge, to punish individuals who push frivolous claims on the court system. This remedy would include any proven costs incurred by the defendant as a result of defending against the frivolous claim.

OK, so there's my proposal for a new patent system strikingly similar to the copyright system. It still accomplishes the purpose of a patent, to retain knowledge of inventions while protecting the intellectual property of the inventor. But protection of the law will work faster for inventors allowing more technological innovation.

In light of this proposal, do you feel the current slow system of patents should be reformed?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Did you read through my proposal?
Is it unreasonable in anyway that I might not see? Yes, well, it's only so informative. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I read most of it. My problem with the patent system is...
It's geared to the people who have the most money and time. I think it's rigged but we need more evidence. It sure the Hell shouldn't be so hard for individual inventors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Are you talking about the current system or the one little ole me proposed?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I should say, the whole idea behind it is to make inventors' lives easier...
yes, someone does have to prove patent infringement in court, but the definition of a protected idea grows so more things can be considered infringed upon.

The whole idea here is to only require inventors to pay a small reasonable royalty to the person who came up with idea originally. This is an idea from the UK and it's system. Right now people may choose to let another party continue with a patent's use or not, and that has caused the patent system to become a system to shut down smaller competitors, when it should only be a system to protect ideas and royalties from those ideas. Vonage may very well be killed off should Verizon continue its bullshit and appeal the permanent injunction that Vonage got against the ruling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. The current system
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know if patent reform is really a "hot button issue" but...
a ton of people all over the country whom work throughout their lives trying to make the rest of our lives better are having a hard time of this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It could become a hot issue. It just needs more eyeballs!
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes, we need better ways to challenge and overturn bad patents.
There are so many bad patents out there that are a minefield to everyone working in the tech industry.

Off the top of my head, there's the Amazon One-Click patent that never should have been granted, the Unisys patent on GIF image compression, a patent on using exclusive-or to alter display images in computer graphics (an incredibly obvious technique to anyone who's done more than a little computer programming, should never have been granted a patent), etc.

Software patents in particular are bogus - we're talking about patenting math.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. You know, that's a great idea.
I didn't think to include that in my little idea, but we could definitely include something like that. I'm pretty serious about this, because I've got some ideas that might really make air travel easier and more environmentally friendly. I can't share those right now, and I wish I could bounce them off of other people. I never do that with anything I take seriously, but the problem is that creativity needs to be free, people shouldn't really have to think about that, because it is what I like to call the "Big Chill". Ideas are killed by the system we have, not nurtured.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Entire industries flourished because of patent infringement
The early movie studios didn't want or couldn't afford paying royalties to Thomas Edison, so they moved out to California from the east coast, where existing patent laws were poorly enforced at the time. By the time the feds made an effort to enforce patent law more stringently in California, Edison's patents had expired.
In the 1980's, Apple basically stole the Graphic User Interface from Xerox (Xerox's big wigs poo-poohed the idea of a GUI, and essentially made the technology into a "orphaned work") and in turn, Microsoft stole the technology from Apple. Thus, we have Windows and Mac OS today due to piracy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Just goes to show
Patents are a racket, especially today with software patents, obvious patents, submarine patents, business method patents, etc. If patents were strictly enforced everywhere, nobody would be able to innovate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes, but your ideas are really really bad.
Your "reforms" go in the entirely wrong direction. The system is already heavily stacked in favor of "inventors" to the detriment of the general public. Non-novel and / or obvious inventions are given patents, in violation of the Patent Act. Submarine patents are common. Patent trolls can reap benefits from other people's hard work.

Copyright and patent are so different because their goals and methods are strikingly different. Trying to make patent more like copyright is a mistake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Actually, there would be a mandatory punishment for patent trolls.
Upthread, someone pointed out the need for a patent challenging provision, I think that's absolutely wonderful idea. We need to protect small time inventors while preventing assholes who don't invent from exploiting a patent or from filing frivolous claims. Like I said in my proposal, there would have to be mandatory penalties for people who file frivolous claims, we could expand the definition of frivolous claims to be those who didn't invent something themselves and don't produce products themselves. Or we could create a shorter time line for protection in those cases.

There would also be mandatory categories of patent infringement, and if a company doesn't knowingly and willfully infringe on a patent, then there would be no penalty for infringing on the patent, and it would be impossible for the patent holder to stop the company from producing a product with the patented technology in it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Still doesn't help.
You're allowing people to seize information from the public domain with no accountability and no oversight. Further, you've removed the reason patents exist in the first place - forcing creators to hand over their designs in exchange for a limited duration of protection. You're also throwing the smaller inventors to the wolves if you prevent someone from getting a patent for something they can't produce.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. You're proposal could make things more complicated
I don't think that allowing the patent office to accept patents for everything is a wise thing to do. It would be hard to tell if a patent on record was a unique idea or a frivolous submission.

If a company doesn't know if they are going to be sued if they use one of the ideas that is patented, then it would just create more confusion. Also companies could flood the patent offices with frivolous patents to give them an advantage, and possibly sue people for patent infringement in cases that it shouldn't been warranted in.

I don't know how your proposal will work in practice, and there could be unintended consequences. A lot of times when we try to fix one thing, we end up creating new unforeseen problems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think we have enough problems with copyright law as it is
I don't want more RIAA-like organizations suing the living shit out of average people. Copyright law as it stands today needs to be reformed to reflect the changing dynamics of how the internet interacts with it. Oh, and let us not forget the idea of statutory damages being placed at $750 per song AT MINIMUM, as well as the fact that copyright is perpetually being extended. I'm guessing the reason why Congress isn't as friendly to patent plaintiffs as they are to copyright plaintiffs, is because many of the defendants are also big corporations themselves (ie. Microsoft being sued by Lucent due to Lucent suddenly stepping forward a claiming a huge part of the development of the mp3 format) whereas the RIAA and MPAA have such a one-sided presence in terms of corporate donations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-29-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Um, yeah, there is really no comparison here. I mean unless people...
Edited on Sun Apr-29-07 03:13 PM by originalpckelly
are downloading patents and building the devices described in them en masse, this is totally a different area.

The patent time wouldn't change, it would just be a different method of patenting an invention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC