Oppose the Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 bill

[Pharaoh]

http://capwiz.com/lef/issues/alert/?alertid=14665781


New Bill Seeks to Ban Consumer Access to Dietary Supplements

Senator John McCain has introduced a bill that if passed, will drive up the cost of dietary supplements and restrict your access to them. The bill being spearheaded by Senators John McCain and Byron Dorgan supposedly originates from the controversy surrounding the use of steroids by Major League Baseball players. Since some unethical companies illegally sold steroid drugs as “dietary supplements,” certain members of Senate appear to have been deceived into believing that the FDA needs to be given additional power to ban dietary supplements across the board.

In order to mislead the public about the true nature of this bill, it has been named the Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 (DSSA).

:party:

[BonnieJW]

1. Done.

K&R

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. FYI: The bill is stuck in Committee since Feb. 4.

Where it may or may not die.

For those who are interested in progress on this bill, I find this site helpful:

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s3002/show#users_tracking

[karynnj]

9. Nice site - bookmarked

(I've always looked at the Thomas site, but it is not formatted nearly as well and is harder to search.)

[upi402]

112. What bad elements of the EU model exist in this? n/t

[AngryAmish]

3. The supplement industry is a cesspool of corruption

It needs regulating.

[Tailormyst]

6. They will just regulate it all right into the hands of big Pharma

If I want to go down to the herb farm and make a purchase, I damn well had better not have to go see a doctor first to do it. I'm a big girl and can think for myself.

[BuddhaGirl]

8. +1

n/t

[HuckleB]

14. Read the legislation.

Where is there any indication that you'll have to go see a doctor to get supplements?

[Tailormyst]

17. Once they start regulating it - you watch.

They will regulate it so you have to go to the pharmacy to get Valerian root or anything deemed "too dangerous" would require a doctors note. They have wanted to shut down alternative medicine for a long time.

[JoeyT]

26. As it stands right now you can go

to the health food store and buy what they tell you is Valerian root, but could be ground glass, sand, or talcum powder. (Or anything else you can imagine.) No regulation means no guarantee that what it says on the label is what's actually in the capsule.

If they can prove in double blind studies that an herb/homeopathy/acupuncture prevents/cures/helps a certain condition, or any condition at all, then more power to them.

[Tailormyst]

32. Thank you for wanting to have a conversation

And I agree- knowing that Valerian was indeed Valerian would be good. Maybe I need to look into it more- I just REALLY do not trust the big pharmacy companies.

Edited to add:

Occasionally you get a topic where you learn or are moved to learn more on a topic. This generally happens when people talk to you, rather then throw insults and snark. This just happened to me. You disagreed with me talked to me and you know what.... I think maybe you are right and I was wrong. In this very same thread I put two others on ignore for behaving like such jerks towards someone who had a different view. So now I am off to take a look at the topic from a different view. Maybe I was worried for nothing. Thank you Joey :)

[JoeyT]

47. Tell you what

if they actually try to ban them outright, I'll be out marching in protest alongside you.

Dr. Oz (God I hate using him as a source) once joked that there was about 10 times as much Hoodia sold as was actually grown.

[Tailormyst]

50. Hehehe- I bet he is right

And you got a deal :)

[Dorian Gray]

148. I never thought that something like this was possible in these topics....

it is important to look at this from both points of view. I don't want limited access to the dietary supplements that I take, yet, I do want ensured safety. I trust the brands that I take for vitamin supplements, but there are many herbal remedies (and claims) that should be regulated for safety.

[alarimer]

52. They will never be able to prove any such thing

Because homeopathy and accupuncture are absolutely useless for anything and there have been numerous studies showing that.

But the pro-quackery force do not want you to know that they are useless, which is why they are trying to stop this bill. They are sellign snkae oil, nothing more.

[BuelahWitch]

133. Since when is acupuncture a dietary supplement?

:wtf: Last time I heard it was an alternative medical practice, not something you ingest.

[Dorian Gray]

149. I'll give you homeopathy

but there are studies that show that acupuncture is effective in various areas, including fertility.

[HuckleB]

165. Studies that claim such effectiveness are one thing.

Repeated studies that indicate that those studies are honest are another thing altogether.

[northernlights]

168. I suppose that's why accupuncture is taught at veterinary school

but...whatever :eyes:

[SidDithers]

35. So, you're worried about your perception of what might happen in the future...

as opposed to what's actually in the bill? :shrug:

Sid

[Tailormyst]

36. Yes- I guess my faith in DC has been that shattered lately.

I'm going to take another look at the issue. Mainly due to some nice posters on this thread.

[SidDithers]

41. Fair enough...

I'd implore you to get your information from balanced sources. There's been a lot of deliberately misinforming information published about this bill.

Sid

[Tailormyst]

43. I will do that.

[PVnRT]

38. "Regulated" does not mean "prescription only"

OTC drugs are regulated by the FDA as well.

[HuckleB]

46. Sorry, but that is not an excuse to oppose good, consumer protection legislation.

Second, unless you're pushing for deregulation of everything involved in food and health, opposing this bill seems a bit hypocritical to me.

[Tailormyst]

54. perhaps you missed some of the comments I made further into the sub thread.

:hi:

here is a little quote:

"Occasionally you get a topic where you learn or are moved to learn more on a topic. This generally happens when people talk to you, rather then throw insults and snark. This just happened to me. You disagreed with me talked to me and you know what.... I think maybe you are right and I was wrong. In this very same thread I put two others on ignore for behaving like such jerks towards someone who had a different view. So now I am off to take a look at the topic from a different view. Maybe I was worried for nothing. Thank you Joey"

I've already acknowledged that I might have been to quick to judge and need to look into the bill more. I also acknowledged that I may well be wrong and you guys may well be right.

Peace

[trotsky]

57. So, there is nothing in the bill that says it.

But you strongly BELIEVE it will.

Okey dokey.

[Tailormyst]

64. You know what?

I've stated a bunch of times in this thread that I may have jumped the gun and need to take another look at things. I also stated that there is a good chance my view is wrong. JHFC, can you guys not just have a discussion without the snarkiness?

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGG

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Echo In Light]

34. Exactly

K&R

[HuckleB]

49. Please read the bill.

[Overseas]

102. Have read the bill. Leave my vitamins and supplements alone! Now is not the time!

We are desperately under-insured right now.

Give us universal, federally financed health care and then we can talk.

In the meantime, my little vitamins and supplements are all I've got. More inspections and testing will make them much more expensive. We cannot afford that right now.

[BuddhaGirl]

136. sorry about your situation

vitamins and supplements are a very important part of a regimen of preventive medicine...AND they need to stay affordable, you're right! :thumbsup:

[HuckleB]

161. I want vitamins and supplements that can be trusted.

The current situation is untenable. There is no logical reason to support the industry propaganda.

Also, your posts make it clear that you have not read the bill, and that you do not understand the actual situation.

[TZ]

59. I got it. So you want to have a nice herb soaked and grown in human feces.

Because you know thats "organic" and alot of farmers fertilize their shit that way. Regulation prevents that stuff. But hey, enjoy your E.Coli, Salmonella and Botulism.

[Overseas]

103. I want to have AFFORDABLE vitamins and supplements.

Testing and inspection requirements will make them more expensive and we cannot afford that right now.

Leave my vitamins and supplements alone until Medicare for All.

In the meantime, we can read the many articles about "expensive urine" or whatever anti-supplement news comes out. And the sad news that organic compost sometimes contains human sewage that is contaminated, and make our own choices.

[Overseas]

101. Doesn't hold a candle to private insurers pumping premiums up while dropping coverage and

racking up record profits year after year, able to finance giant astroturf campaigns against healthcare reform.

And what kind of cesspool might it be that allowed Vioxx and other dangerous drugs to be sold so freely, even after expensive testing?

[AngryAmish]

146. Try to think about what has gone wrong with your life and education to allow you to make that post

Since one industry does things wrong is means another should go unregulated? Really. Think about what you are advocating. For once.

Have you seen the ads for Extenze or the ilk? The all but say it will grow a man's penis. It does not work. Complete fraud. But they can say what they do because the state of the current law allows them to.

You think this is good? How much stock in ExtenZe do you own? What are your motives, other than stupidity? When you get spam for "herbal viagra" do you think it will work? Or are you the one sending that crap?

[Dorian Gray]

147. I don't have a problem with supplements

being regulated. Safety is important.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pharaoh]

11. What ! ?

:rofl:

[Vidar]

5. Done & recommended.

[PVnRT]

7. Why should they not be regulated like other drugs are?

Why is it that defenders of supplements and other herbal remedies are so dead-set against having to prove that their products work as claimed via clinical trials?

As for the OMG BIG PHARMA stuff - do you think Big Pharma is going to touch a bunch of stuff that can't be patented and can be made by dozens of generic manufacturers? If so, you're sadly mistaken.

[BuddhaGirl]

10. uh no, you're mistaken, sadly

vitamins/herbs/supplements is a big industry, and a growing one. BIG PHARMA would like nothing more for it to just go away.

[PVnRT]

12. Which does not address my main point

Why should supplements and herbal medicines not have to face the scrutiny for effectiveness and safety as any other food or drug?

[Tailormyst]

19. Because they don't have the same influence as big pharma

YOu don't think things are done in DC because they are fair and just, do you?

[PVnRT]

40. That makes no sense

What does power and influence have to do with testing and regulation? If big scary pharma had their way, there would be no "D" in the FDA.

Again, I ask - why shouldn't supplements and herbals be held to the same standards as any other drug?

[Tailormyst]

42. please see my response to Joey up thread.

[HuckleB]

53. In reality, they clearly have plenty of power.

If they didn't, DSHEA would never have passed, giving them carte blanche, in the first place.

[PVnRT]

88. Yes, they have power in Washington

Will they gain if this bill passes? Not much. Things that work will get approved and regulated, and without patent protection to keep the prices high, pharm companies aren't going to bother making and marketing anything.

I fail to see how this gives the pharm industry "carte blanche" for anything. You people do realize that if they had "carte blanche," no drugs would be regulated, right?

[HuckleB]

92. You're not responding the actual content of my post.

Thus, your response really makes no sense in regard to my post.

[TZ]

58. LOVE the hypocrisy

Supplement industry is a billion dollar industry but if they want regulations EVUL EVUL!
Big Pharma is a billion dollar industry THAT HAS LEGITIMATE SCIENCE BEHIND IT. And you screech about not enough regulations?
Do you know that supplements can have toxic substances in them like LEAD, Arsenic and other poisons and the government can't do a fucking thing about it? Plus they can sell you legally a sugar pill and tell you its magic herb A! And they can get away with fraud.
Go ahead. Defend your snake oil merchants whose products by the way kill many many people through fatal drug interactions causse they aren't regulated.

[BuddhaGirl]

75. I will defend the freedom of people to take

supplements...as I'm sure you'll continue to defend BIG PHARMA...an industry that kills more Americans every year.

Wow - hit a nerve I guess. Screech all you want LOL

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

104. Pharma is better than big supplements.

Unlike supplements, drugs actually make people better.

[BuddhaGirl]

137. supplements make people better too

and can be an important part of preventive medicine

[Overseas]

107. LOVE the cruelty

of pushing to make our last little lifeline, vitamins and supplements, more expensive right now while millions of us are uninsured or under-insured.

Now is not the time.

Even if I'm taking a placebo, it is cheaper than $100 per hour therapy.

When we have universal national health security, then we can talk.

In the meantime, I'll read the hundreds of articles about various supplements pros & cons and make my own choices.

[Juche]

166. Numerous things wrong with that post

1. Much of the research behind pharma is funded by pharma, and this conflict of interest is becoming a bigger and bigger issue. The same thing does happen with supplements though.

2. There is evidence behind supplements. Magnesium, vitamin D and/or coenzyme Q10 for prevention of cardiovascular disease as an example.

3. Pharmaceuticals already kill 90,000 people a year through interactions. Supplements can cause problems too, but if you are going to criticize death by supplements then include the deaths by pharmaceuticals too.

4. There should be regulation against toxins and to ensure potency. However my impression is many companies already do that, and offer you the paperwork. I'd prefer more regulation, but the idea that every company is selling arsenic isn't true.

[HuckleB]

167. So lets put supplement companies under the same regulations as big pharma!

Heck, what this bill proposes is nothing compared to that.

[Juche]

170. By all means

Regulate supplements the same way we regulate OTC medications. I'm all for that. But claiming there are no health benefits to supplements, or that pharma has tons of evidence behind it (much of it is me-too drugs and industry funded studies), or that the dangers of supplements are huge while ignoring the dangers of pharma isn't really being honest.

[HuckleB]

171. Do you think the supplement companies won't have to fund the studies that prove their drugs safe?

Further, BIG PHARMA is not the issue here.

[HuckleB]

15. EXACTLY!

[Tailormyst]

18. If I want to go down the street and by some St Johnswort, then I should be able to.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Nothing says you can't.

If I want to go down my street and buy some tylenol, I should be able to.

But I'd hope that was a government built street to a licensed pharmacist selling regulated tylenol.

[Tailormyst]

21. And what if I want to grow it in my back yard?

I see what you are all saying about the regulations not being a big deal, but let me be frank, I just don't trust them not to run small growers out of business or make it very difficult for small businesses to compete with the massive ones.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. That's fine.

If you're selling it, then you have to get regulated.

"I just don't trust them not to run small growers out of business or make it very difficult for small businesses to compete with the massive ones."

Pff. As if this is about "small growers."

No, it's about woo woos making false claims.

[Tailormyst]

25. It starts out being about woo-woos

I just don't trust that it will stop there.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TZ]

60. So you want to be free to buy arsenic tainted poison ivy?

Because legally they can put that in a bottle and call it "St. Johns Wort".
Oh btw, why does anyone think you have to have a script to buy this. Has no one learned the concept of OVER THE COUNTER MEDS? Jeezus the stupidity burns

[Tailormyst]

65. Do you feel better now?

Seriously. I stated a half dozen times upthread that I needed to read more and look at my point of view again. I also said there was a good chance that I WAS WRONG. Yet you and other continue with the snarky insults. Thank goodness for the ignore feature. You and the rest can go $%^&*(.

[Overseas]

108. Right now, yes. 44,000 die early without health insurance.

Far fewer have died due to mislabeled shady supplements.

And quite often it turns out that those who have died from supplements have misused them, taking much more than the recommended doses.

But mainly, right now, it is the cruelty of making a desperate public's last lifeline, vitamins and other supplements, more expensive when we don't even have Medicare for All.

Let us just read the many articles about vitamins and supplements, pro & con, and make our own choices right now.

[trotsky]

61. Would you like to be assured, then, that the capsules you are buying...

actually contain St. John's Wort, and in a quantity sufficient enough to produce an effect, and not contaminated with poisonous ingredients?

Or are you OK with buying something that's LABELED "St. John's Wort" and trusting a billion-dollar-company to put what they say in it, and nothing else?

Guess you trust big companies more than I do. :shrug:

[Tailormyst]

66. sigh

Just please go look at my responses upthread to joey- I don't have the energy to type it all out yet again.

[trotsky]

68. Well when you explode with lots of posts...

you can't honestly tell me you're surprised when you get lots of responses. I hope you did learn something today.

[Tailormyst]

69. No- what I am surprised is the comments continuing for hours AFTER I said I was wrong

and needed to go back and look at it. The insults continued. Honestly, the level of nastiness in this place is absurd sometimes. If you were having a conversation with someone and after ten minutes they said " Oh, maybe you are right, I might be wrong on this" would you then continue to make snarky comments, or would you be happy you changed someones mind or maybe taught someone something. Bleh- it's been a shitty day since the sun came up. I'm going to go home soon and take a nap.

I learned 2 things:

1) I need to go back go and look at the issue
2) It's not worth admitting you might be wrong and need to go do more research because people are going to be assholes anyway.

[trotsky]

72. LOL

Enjoy your nap. I hope you are less crabby when you wake up.

[Tailormyst]

73. I'm not crabby, I am frustrated.

[trotsky]

77. Be aware that you yourself have jumped all over a lot of people in this thread....

simply because they missed one little comment you made deep in a subthread. Consider that as they scrolled down the thread, they saw your earliest, uninformed comment first and responded. Evidently you view this as a horrible sin and felt "insulted" because we innocently missed your semi-mea-culpa post. Guess what? It's going to happen on threaded discussion boards. You need to stop taking such offense or your Internet experience won't be pleasant no matter where you go.

[Tailormyst]

79. Yup

My fault. Sorry. Learned alot. I apologize for being so mean and insulting to others. I'm going now. Have a good night.

[alarimer]

55. They are dead set against it because they know they will fail.

They are selling snake oil.

For all "Big Pharmas" issues, they are generally held to a much higher scientific standard.

[Overseas]

Too expensive right now when millions of us are desperately uninsured.

Too cruel to make our little lifelines that much more expensive right now.

Leave us our vitamins and supplements at least until we get universal national health security.

Do we think Big Pharma is going to "touch a bunch of stuff that can't be patented?" YES I DO. By touching it, I mean that the Chemical Kings will try to make it much more expensive, so we will be less able to afford simple effective remedies like vitamin C and will get sick enough to need the fancy patented medications instead.

Edited a typo.

[CLANG]

13. Fuck McLAME!!

K&R

[HuckleB]

16. Your link misrepresents the actual contents of the bill.

Please read the bill, not supplement industry propaganda.

[derby378]

23. There have been too many shenanigans with dietary supplements to count

There needs to be some regulation of dietary supplements in order to safeguard public health. If not from McCain, then from somebody.

[Sebastian Doyle]

24. Grandpa Simpson can have my supplements

when he pries them out of my cold dead hands.

FUCK this Big Pharma funded bullshit :grr:

[Raine]

28. THANKS for that link ... I will certainly do it! nt

:thumbsup:

[JoeyT]

29. Speaking of misleading people.

From the article:
If McCain’s bill is passed, it will make it far easier for pharmaceutical companies to file use patents on what are now inexpensive dietary supplements and convert them into outrageously priced “drugs.”
This is utter nonsense. You can't patent something that's been sold for years.

I suspect an awful lot of the panic is the fact that they might have to prove alternative "medicines" work better than placebo. You know, in studies they can't rig. Plus they'll have to have quality control to make sure what's on the label is what's in the bottle instead of grinding up whatever is handy.

[Overseas]

110. "The panic" is the fact that our last little lifelines could become much more expensive.

With all the testing and inspection the new regulations would impose.

NOW IS NOT THE TIME.

Even if they are placebos, we are desperately uninsured, a bottle of B-vitamins is a lot cheaper than a therapy session.

After Medicare for All, then we can talk.

[Confusious]

159. Self delete, noticed I was repeating what was already said.

[Lance_Boyle]

30. Thankfully this ridiculous opposition to a good bill will not matter in the end.

Dietary supplements are *either* drugs *or* food - not something in between that cannot be regulated. The industry is very much in need of regulation. No two ways about it. So very sorry you'll have to pay $0.20 more for a bottle of woo. At least you'll know it's generally recognized as safe, if not effective.

[laughingliberal]

37. My husband's cardiologist advised him to buy a bottle of woo and start taking 3 caps a day of it

Very staid, old, conservative cardiology group here in town. He advised him to start taking 3 caps of fish oil per day. I have no problem with regulating the quality of supplements on the market but I'm going to be pissed if they start making supplements prescription only.

[Lance_Boyle]

56. the 'prescription-only' thing is a canard - would never happen

The OP uses that to try to gin up opposition to a good bill (making sure the fish oil in hubby's fish oil capsules is really fish oil, not saddle oil or baby oil or used motor oil). It is an outright fabrication. Most people, I believe, would prefer to know that "supplements" are what they claim to be and are safe, regardless of efficacy or lack thereof.

[laughingliberal]

81. I have no problem with assuring the product is what it says it is

Hence, I support regulating quality. But I do not want any regs which will, in time, lead to Rx only status or that would take products off the market as long as they are GRAS and contain what they say they do. In other words, if the product is what it says it is and causes no harm when used as directed, consumers' should remain free to use what they choose.

[Orrex]

31. Because the last thing we want is safe supplements!

Maybe I'm not getting enough PCBs in my snake oil.


I mean fish oil.

[laughingliberal]

39. Fish oil=Snake oil?

My husband's cardiologist advised us he should be taking it. And, within our circle of peers, that has been pretty common. I don't know anyone who sees a cardiologist who hasn't been advised to take fish oil. Have no problem with regulating the quality of the product. But I will have a problem with making supplements prescription only.

[Orrex]

51. The snake oil part is when fish oil as a panacea

Also, it was an irresistible play on words.


The hugely profitable multi-billion-dollar "supplement" industry has enjoyed an unaccountable free rein for far too long, regardless of the efficacy or danger of the products. Long overdue regulation would provide standards by which to judge the manufacturers' wares.

[laughingliberal]

71. So, cute phrasing prompted you to denigrate a product that most cardiologists in the country are

recommending for their patients with vascular and heart disease? I have no problem with regulating quality. But if they want to restrict access to substances GRAS, I'm way against it.

[Orrex]

74. I've done some research & I see that I'm the first person ever to use a pun to make a point. Ever!

Do you send angry notes to The Daily Show when the writers use "cute phrasing" to introduce a story?


As I mentioned, fish oil is indeed a form of snake oil insofar as it is claimed to have magical wellness powers far beyond what's actually been clinically documented. The fact that cardiologists recommend it for their patients doesn't change this.

[laughingliberal]

76. Don't ever get to see the Daily Show. Comes on when my husband watches something else

I don't know of any claims for fish oil beyond what the cardiologists have told me. I had a low HDL at the time my husband was advised to take it and have started taking it, too. My numbers have improved which is somewhat insignificant as I have no heart disease to begin with. But, I see no harm in using it.

[Maru Kitteh]

144. Orrex clarified that it is only "snake oil" per se when it is being used as a panacea

Main Entry: pan·a·cea
Pronunciation: \ˌpa-nə-ˈsē-ə\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from Greek panakeia, from panakēs all-healing, from pan- + akos remedy
Date: 1548

: a remedy for all ills or difficulties : cure-all


Orrex didn't say fish oil didn't have any value, he just said that it shouldn't be taken as a miracle cure. The benefits of fish oil are not really in dispute.

When you buy some anti-acid off the shelf at your local store - you expect all the ingredients to be listed and accurate, and the FDA works to ensure you that it is. This legislation is designed to do the same for the fish oil you will buy in the same store, and you will no more need an Rx for fish oil than you do for Tums.

[Orrex]

178. Thanks for getting my back!

:hi:

[Dorian Gray]

150. Comparing fish oil

(a pill that many doctors suggest patients use for a variety of reasons) to snake oil isn't helping your argument.

(And I fall on the side of regulation.)

[Orrex]

151. It was a tongue-in-cheek reference

That is, one wonders how regulation of this supplements might have altered the problem of PCBs in fish oil. I would have thought that this reference was obvious, since there's already a thread about it here in DU's Health forum.

However, if any positive claim is made about the efficacy of fish oil when that efficacy has not been demonstrated, then it's being marketed as snake oil.

[SidDithers]

33. No...

The multi-billion dollar nutriceuticals industry should be held accountable for the content and safety of their products, just like every other industry.

Sid

[Overseas]

115. Later, please. Medicare for All first. //nt

[Maru Kitteh]

145. No. Because that isn't likely in a generation.

There is nothing at all wrong with ensuring that when people buy vitamins and red yeast rice at the store that they actually get what they are paying for.

[Ratty]

44. Supplements need to be regulated

While good intentioned, DSHEA went too far. We should have a right to know that what's on the label of a supplement is actually what's inside. We have a right to be protected from supplements tainted with estrogen, melatonin, and PCBs. But we shouldn't go too far in the other direction. We shouldn't need a prescription for supplements. Supplement makers should not have to prove the efficacy of a supplement - these rigorous scientific studies take years and millions of dollars to undertake.

For a more, *ahem*, balanced view on DSSA, see http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3772

[fishwax]

45. Supplements ought to be regulated, and this bill doesn't "ban consumer access"

[alarimer]

48. I am in favor of anything that gets rid of "dietary supplements"

which is quackery by another name.

Makers of such supplements should fall under the same guidelines as all drugmakers. They should have to PROVE safety and efficacy. Right now they are regulated as food, under no such obligation to provide any kind of evidence for their claims. Nor do they have to actually prove that what they are selling is what is actually in the product.

[Lance_Boyle]

63. They are not regulated as food - they have no safety regulation.

They are regulated like tobacco.

[nemo137]

67. Ironically, I believe that as of last year, tobacco is more regulated

than dietary supplements.

[laughingliberal]

78. So, tobacco should be less regulated than dietary supplements?

What am I missing?

[nemo137]

84. I just find it weird that something that makes explicit claims about being a drug

is completely unregulated. Tobacco absolutely is a nicotine delivery device, and should be regulated as such, but dietary supplements ought to be regulated if they're going to make claims as medicine.

[laughingliberal]

85. But there is absolutely no irony in tobacco being more regulated than supplements

Tobacco has been proven to cause harm. I don't know of any supplements that would have the same potential to cause harm.

[nemo137]

86. Ok, I misused the word irony

But its not about potential to cause harm in the case of supplements, it's about their claims to be beneficial and the complete lack of oversight about them.

[TZ]

62. Imagine anyone wanting their herbs and vitamins wanting the same standards as Tylenol

You know..No poisons in it. That you are actually buying what it SAYS it is. OMG people are MORONS. They are trying to regulate for your own safety the way the FDA regulates Tylenol and other over the counter meds. HEY STUPID PEOPLE---NO ONE IS SAYING YOU NEED A DOCTOR FOR THIS SHIT.

[Orrex]

82. Nice post, ventriloquist

:thumbsup:

[shanti]

70. STEVIA

is considered a dietary supplement...read up on it. the artificial sweetener companies have fought like the dickens to keep it a supplement and not a sweetener. we all know the reason why too! (follow the money trail).

[ecstatic]

80. I object! I gained 15 lbs when ephedra was banned

My body my choice!

[dixiegrrrrl]

98. American version of similar herb is available.

It is called Brigham Tea.
chekc out iherb.com for info.

[eShirl]

127. have you seen

http://www.ktbotanicals.com/ephedra-sinica-ma-huang-origin-domestic-p-8172.html

[Umbral]

83. If it in anyway circumvents the supplement act Orrin Hatch wrote/passed in 1994...

it won't get out of committee (unless the Dems let it). Hatch and his herb-peddler buddies aren't going to give up their gravy train - despite the need to moderate or rescind that horrible legislation.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

87. {{pounds head on wall}}

Why is it that people think they can post pure lies and assume that no one will call them on their bullshit?

I wonder how many nutriceutical apologists actually read the f'ing bill before posting their knee jerk reactions...

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

90. They're worried Big Pharma is going to patent homeopathic canine feces...nt

Sid

[Overseas]

91. K&R. The cruelty of taking away our supplements when we can't even go to the doctor

is really disgusting.

It's like-- leave me alone already. We're doing our best to maintain our health with vitamins and other supplements because we can't afford $500 per month COBRA when under-employed, or can't go to the doctor on our $5000 deductible plans.

How much more cruel can the For Profit Medical Industry get?

The right keeps trying to get at the vitamin & supplement industry this way-- via steroids.

Seems similar to using porn to make the case for restricting use of the internet more and more.

[HuckleB]

93. Read the legislation.

No one is taking away your supplements. However, if this passes, you'll know what's actually in your supplements.

[Overseas]

99. It will make them more expensive. Leave them alone in these desperate times.

I know what is in my supplements. I read the labels and I select manufacturers fairly carefully. I know enough about them for now.

Give me universal, taxpayer financed national health insurance and then we can talk.

[HuckleB]

109. You have no guarantees of what's in what you buy, and such a lack of regulation is hypocritical.

Stop the scam artists.

Further, there is no evidence that costs will go up.

[Overseas]

113. It is the cruelty of imposing restrictions right now when we are desperately uninsured.

And please, of course additional processes added to the production of vitamins and supplements will add to the cost.

Pharmaceutical companies complain about that all the time.


But my biggest objection is the cruelty of stomping on our little lifelines when we still don't have Medicare for All.

[HuckleB]

122. You are making assumptions you cannot make.

And you are making it clear that you have not read the bill.

[Confusious]

160. Making a vitamin is 1000000000x easier then making a drug.

We even made an amino acid in my basic chemistry class. Shit, we even made aspirin, something that is also regulated by the FDA. The price of that is what? 3.00 for 50 pills? I can't remember because it's been so long since I bought a bottle, and I take them all the time.

Your fear of higher prices is unfounded.

[BuddhaGirl]

138. GMP supplements

"What are GMPs?

Good Manufacturing Practices are guidelines that provide a system of processes, procedures, and documentation to assure the product produced has the identity, strength, composition, quality, and purity that it is represented to possess."

http://www.nsf.org/business/gmp/index.asp

We DO know what is in our supplements. I only buy GMP's. But I'm certain this isn't enough for you, but it's not important to me anyway :-)

[SidDithers]

140. Self regulation "guidelines" are good enough for the supplement industry?...

Nobody would be OK with the banking industry patroling themselves with a series of guidelines. But you're OK with supplements self-regulating?

Sid

[BuddhaGirl]

141. I am fine with the way it is

n/t

[HuckleB]

143. You and your BIG GUBMINT!

[HuckleB]

142. Actually, we've had far too many examples that show we don't know.

http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090505162450.htm

Unless you want voluntary guidelines for all health and food products, please don't continue down this road.

[SidDithers]

94. What about the For Profit supplement industry?...

should they be able to operate with minimal safety and content regulation?

Sid

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Overseas]

100. Gee, where are all the "Don't Let The Perfect Be the Enemy of The Good" people

when it comes to our little vitamins and minerals? Requiring more inspection and certification will drive up the price.

When we have more basic compassionate healthcare for all in the USA like they do in France, Canada and other countries, then we can talk about vitamins and supplements.

In the meantime, I hope we do not let a small subset of sports-crazed reckless steroid users make supplements more expensive for all of us.

I'm fine with my supplements as they are right now. I can read and choose among manufacturers.

It is really just the cruelty of making our last little lifelines more expensive while pretending to help us. Even if I'm taking sugar pills of vitamin C, that placebo is helping me and I need it.

AFTER universal health care, then we can talk.

[SidDithers]

106. Quality control and testing is a price of doing business...

why should Tylenol be required to have 250mg of acetominophen in a tablet, if that's what they say is in a tablet, but not the nutriceutical industry?

Sid

[HuckleB]

111. +1

[Overseas]

117. Open up Medicare. Single Payer Now.

Then we can talk about tightening regulations on our vitamins and other supplements.

Leave us alone right now please.

[HuckleB]

121. Those are two different issues.

Unless you want to deregulate all health care and food product labeling, then you're are being very inconsistent by opposing this bill.

[Overseas]

134. No NEW regulations on the supplements we desperate people depend on.

If you really want to help us unfortunate vitamin poppers, give us Medicare for all.

Expand Medicare first, then you can consider expanding the regulation of vitamins and increasing the staffing for food inspections to catch the next samonella in texturized vegetable protein.

[HuckleB]

135. You've yet to make a logical argument for your stand on the DSSA.

Repeating yourself doesn't change that. Bringing up an unrelated topic doesn't change that.

If you actually need supplements, this bill is good for you.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090505162450.htm

[Overseas]

153. Some people think honest basic compassion is not logical.

The basic compassion of leaving simple tools like vitamins and supplements alone right now, when our people are desperately uninsured and bankrupt paying for our for-profit medical system, is something quite logical to me. If our placebos make us feel a bit better because the mind is a powerful thing, great. Let us have that for now. A bit of hope.

While the simplest logic-- you want safe meat so you must want safe vitamins-- is nice and neat, it doesn't reflect the realities on the ground. We all know that imposing new regulations would raise the prices and restrict access to vitamins and supplements. It would also cost the federal government a lot of money to implement the new program. Money that could be better spent expanding Medicare to cover us all.

So, because we don't have 44,000 people dieing early every year due to tainted supplements, but instead due to lack of adequate health insurance, I'd rather our government focus on Medicare for All.

[Maru Kitteh]

155. There is nothing compassionate about allowing an unregulated industry rip off the vulnerable

by selling them unsafe ingredients, filler and poison.

The massive, multi-billion dollar supplement industry should welcome these measures and the opportunity to ensure their customers receive independently verified, safe products that are exactly what they say they are.

Your insistence on saying because we do not have single payer healthcare we should not do anything else that will promote safety and health is a fatally weak and fallacious 'argument.'

[Overseas]

174. Yes there is. There are good companies amid the bad ones, and right now

our little vitamins and supplements are all that many of us have to sustain us in our very cruel current system in which healthcare is treated as a privilege rather than a basic human right.

First things first. Basic compassionate national health care for all.

[HuckleB]

177. WOW!

You say you want compassion, but you show none!

[Overseas]

179. Right back at you, pal. First let's get non-profit health care as a basic human right in the USA .

Then we can talk about regulating vitamins and herbs.

Give us another affordable option first.

Then we can enter into the expensive deliberations on how to inspect and regulate the nutritional supplement industry.

[HuckleB]

162. The reality is that the supplement industry is not honest and cares nothing about compassion.

You are making so many illogical leaps that it's impossible to point all of them out.

[Overseas]

172. I'm not asking them to be compassionate. I'm asking you to be compassionate enough

to leave our vitamins and supplements alone until after we have established the basic compassionate low-priced non-profit healthcare that most other modern countries have.

When we have established non-profit, national health security for all as a right rather than a privilege, we can take another look at how to evaluate and regulate vitamins and other supplements. Some may be assigned to the FDA, while others may be designated for review by the Department of Agriculture, with periodic inspections like our meat industry gets.

[HuckleB]

175. I'm asking you to be compassionate enough to stop the scam artists from continuing to abuse people.

[Overseas]

180. First things first. Compassionate non-profit health care for all in the USA.

That will have a much more significantly compassionate impact on our national health security.

[SidDithers]

173. Cheap and potentially dangerous or innefective...

is apparantly better than slightly-less-cheap and safe.

The mind boggles.

Sid

[HuckleB]

176. +1

[Overseas]

181. Compassionate non-profit healthcare for all in the USA is the most important first step.

[Overseas]

114. It is the cruelty of pushing this now. Medicare for All first.

In the meantime, let me continue my reading of lots of articles and selecting of certain manufacturers whose production processes I know more about than others.

Too cruel to make supplements more expensive right now when they are all that millions of us can do right now.

[SidDithers]

116. But if budgets are tight, and supplements are all that can be afforded...

wouldn't you want to make sure you're only buying products that are guaranteed to be what they say they are? Who can afford to waste money on something that may not be what it claims to be?

Sid

[Overseas]

120. No. Because it will make supplements much more expensive in the meantime

and they are all we have got right now.

They have regulated vitamins and supplements in some other countries and the price has gone way up.

LATER please.

Medicare for All first.

[Maru Kitteh]

156. That is a piss poor excuse for an argument.

Because we do not have single payer, by your argument, we should not:

Worry about lead paint on toys
Worry about pesticide loads on imported foods
Worry about toxic fumes in FEMA trailers
Worry about Hg levels in.... well... anything

etc.,

[jmowreader]

96. I hope it passes

There are five kinds of "supplements" being sold out there.

The first kind has the ingredients shown on the label in about the amount shown on the label. This is the least common form.

You then have the single-ingredient pills that do NOT contain the ingredients, or the amount, shown on the label.

Third are the "nutriceutical cocktails" like Seasilver. I had a job designing the brochure for this product. One of the ingredients was "Phyto-Silver" which was supposed to contain colloidal silver. I guess if you want to look like the blue guy in the X-Men this is the product for you as colloidal silver's most famous attribute is its ability to turn your skin permanently blue. It also contains five radioactive minerals including uranium and strontium for glowingly good health.

Fourth is the supplements that are just designer steroids.

And the last group is the "supplements" and "cleanses" that are really designed to help you cheat on a piss test.

'Course, if you took the Invisible Roids and Piss Test Cheat shit off the market GNC would collapse because it's hard to run a national mall-based chain on selling vitamins.

[Overseas]

97. Done.

I didn't say it in my message, but AFTER they give us totally government financed health care, then we can talk about possible restrictions on our only affordable solutions right now, our little vitamins and supplements.

[krabigirl]

118. I must be on the wrong site..I do NOT want this to pass. Supplements will be gone IMO if it does ro

unless distributed by big pharma.

[krabigirl]

119. I must be on the wrong site..I do NOT want this to pass. Supplements will be gone IMO if it does ro

unless distributed by big pharma.

[HuckleB]

123. Read the bill.

There is no basis for your claim.

[Maru Kitteh]

158. Basis? We don't need no stinking bases!

Give us our neo-hippy WOO! Because the giant corporations really swell folks in the supplement industry profession would never lie to us! It's not like their trying to sell us something after all! They really care about us!

[HuckleB]

163. +1

[BuddhaGirl]

139. I tend to agree

BIG PHARMA doesn't want any competition!

[HuckleB]

124. The Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010: A long overdue correction to the DSHEA of 1994?

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3772

[HuckleB]

125. Harvard doc: Dietary supplements could be deadly

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/iteam/2009/10/harvard-doc-dietary-supplement.html

[HuckleB]

126. American Roulette — Contaminated Dietary Supplements

http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home

"In one of the most dangerous cities in the United States, one portly police sergeant has more to worry about than crime. His doctor had been encouraging him for years to lose weight, and like millions of other Americans, he decided to try a weight-loss supplement to help him shed his extra pounds. But instead of losing weight, he lost his job. According to the label, his diet pills, which were imported from Brazil and sold in the United States, contained vitamin E, centella, senna, and cascara, among other “natural” ingredients. Not included on the label was the amphetamine detected in his urine drug screen. The now-unemployed sergeant is not alone. Such contaminated supplements represent an emerging risk to public health.

In August 2009, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) discovered more products, most of them labeled as dietary supplements, that contain a wide variety of undeclared active pharmaceutical ingredients. Now, more than 140 contaminated products have been identified, but these represent only a fraction of the contaminated supplements on the market. Unfortunately, lenient regulatory oversight of dietary supplements, combined with the FDA’s lack of resources, has created a marketplace in which manufacturers can introduce hazardous new products with virtual impunity. Although manufacturers have since 2007 been required to report serious supplement-related adverse events to the FDA, the great majority of the estimated 50,000 adverse events that occur annually remain unreported.

This trend is particularly alarming given that, according to a recent National Health Interview Survey, about 114 million people — more than half the adult population of the United States — consume dietary supplements. These supplements, which include botanical products, vitamins and minerals, amino acids, and tissue extracts, are regulated by the FDA under the 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA). Before 1994, herbal products were considered food additives, and their manufacturers were required to show proof of safety before marketing them. Since the passage of the DSHEA, dietary supplements are presumed to be safe and can be marketed with very little oversight.

The regulatory environment for dietary supplements is poorly understood by both consumers and physicians. According to a 2002 Harris Poll, the majority of consumers believed that dietary supplements are approved by a government agency, and two thirds thought that the government requires that labels on supplements include warnings about their potential side effects and dangers. Physicians are also misinformed. A recent survey of more than 300 residents in internal medicine from 15 U.S. training programs showed that one third of the respondents believed that dietary supplements require FDA approval, and the majority did not know that adverse events suspected to have been caused by supplements should be reported to the FDA.1

..."

[SidDithers]

128. New England Journal of Medicine?...

Sorry, my friend. That source isn't reliable.

You need to go to mercola or NaturalNews to get accurate health information.

Sid

[HuckleB]

129. Drat!

Foiled again!

[SidDithers]

130. That article should be in a thread by itself...

thanks for posting it.

Sid

[superduperfarleft]

131. I get mine straight from David Icke and the John Birch Society.

You and that other poster have the patience of a couple of saints. I gave up trying to reason with people on this issue long ago. Luckily someone posts a stupid thread on this bill on almost a weekly basis, so if I ever decide to jump back in, it won't be hard to find a place to do it.

[SidDithers]

132. Thanks for the kind words...

:hi:

Sid

[AngryAmish]

152. h m

[Greyhound]

154. K&R

[keep_it_real]

157. Done

[Happy Hippy]

164. This bill is dead as of Friday...n/t

Google much?

[HuckleB]

169. Link, please.