School’s Shake-Up Is Embraced by the President: "tough love" from Obama

[Bluebear]

A Rhode Island school board’s decision to fire the entire faculty of a poorly performing school, and President Obama’s endorsement of the action, has stirred a storm of reaction nationwide, with teachers condemning it as an insult and conservatives hailing it as a watershed moment of school accountability.

The decision by school authorities in Central Falls to fire the 93 teachers and staff members has assumed special significance because hundreds of other school districts across the nation could face similarly hard choices in coming weeks, as a $3.5 billion federal school turnaround program kicks into gear.

While there is fierce disagreement over whether the firings were good or bad, there is widespread agreement that the decision would have lasting ripples on the nation’s education debate — especially because Mr. Obama seized on the move to show his eagerness to take bold action to improve failing schools filled with poor students.

“This is the first example of tough love under the Obama regime, and that’s what makes it significant,” said Michael J. Petrilli, a vice president at the Thomas B. Fordham Institute in Washington, an educational research and advocacy organization.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/education/07educ.html

[jody]

1. Does Obama want to break the power of state education unions? n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

12. Perhaps it's time to give parents more power

[Catshrink]

13. One problem with that:

the parent who protests his child's grade. I've seen parents take it to the school board. There are parents who believe their child can do no wrong and would never sass a teacher or disrupt a class, never cheat on a test or plagiarize a paper. If there are no protections for teachers who act ethically and professionally, no one will want to teach.

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. It's all about balancing competing interests

Any time you give one group too much power there is likely to be problems. Right now in some (certainly not all) schools, there is an imbalance in favor of the teachers' union.

[Zoeisright]

24. Bullshit.

What a stupid statement. Teachers are charged to a higher standard than parents because they have more education in this area. Therefore, teachers need to have more power than parents IN THE SCHOOLS.

Yeah, right, unions have too much power in this country.

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. I didn't say that we should give parents all of the power, or even an equal amount of power

Just that they do not have enough in some schools.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

38. We ran into some fairly mediocre (at best) teachers in MD and there was no practical recourse

One told us in front of a school counselor and administrator that ADA issues did not matter in his classroom and that if we did not like it, we could remove our daughter from his class. Later the principal acknowledged his statement but said they could do nothing. It took parents several years to get him out of there.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. What is it with the right wing talking points on DU on this issue?

If there really was an imbalance in favor of teachers unions, we'd be making a hell of a lot more money.

[Freddie Stubbs]

65. Not all power is monetary

[Catshrink]

72. Give up on this one, my friend.

He's so obviously enamored of Duncan and Obama there's no convincing him.

[Bluebear]

74. :nodding:

[inna]

19. Lame sig.

[Bluebear]

22. +1

[Freddie Stubbs]

30. Why?

:shrug:

[inna]

35. I like this one:

:P

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. He is simply carrying out President Obama's education policy

[rpannier]

40. Since the parents at the school opposed the firings

Explain how this empowers them

More like empowering bureaucrats trying to create room for more privately owned charter schools.

Considering how poorly many of these charter schools have been performing in Chicago, Duncan is one of the last people whose ideas should be considered useful.

[Freddie Stubbs]

51. What percentage of the parents opposed the firings?

[mdmc]

49. sig line makes me gag..

:(

[Freddie Stubbs]

52. Not everyone is comfortable with the truth

[mdmc]

64. correct

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. Me too

[Catshrink]

73. Yeah, more like deforming.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. They have power. Many just fail to exercise it.

[donco6]

68. More power to do what? n/t

[Bluebear]

78. To do what?

[Bluebear]

87. no answer :(

[roguevalley]

32. reagan broke the air traffic controllers. he could do it. and fuck him

if he does. He clearly doesn't know shit.

[pecwae]

50. If he doesn't

he's doing a damn fine impression of wanting that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. First the teachers, then which union?

No doubt he's a union buster.

[LWolf]

61. YES. Which has been clear for at least 2 years. nt

[Starry Messenger]

2. Oh well, if the conservatives love it we must be doing something right

:crazy:

[Catshrink]

Wonder what would happen if we had a nationwide teachers' strike.

A PATCO threat prevents a single district from going out, but all? It's a nice dream but geting all teachers to take action would make herding cats look easy.

[Starry Messenger]

6. I would love a nationwide teachers' strike

Sad to say we'd probably gain more sympathy for it under a Repug. administration. Now we have the R's AND the Dems against us.

[Catshrink]

8. I never thought I'd see a Democratic president attempt to dismantle public education.

But, there it is. First PATCO, then NAFTA, then GM, now us.

[Starry Messenger]

10. Neither did I.

:( Who are these people?

[DesertRat]

14. Me either

And so many teachers worked hard to get him elected.

[Bluebear]

23. I'm so sorry for you :(

[Catshrink]

48. I'm sorry for all of us.

[SimonPhoenix]

43. Yep

And the funniest part about it is that of the three unions you listed (PATCO, UAW and NEA),your union (NEA) members possess far more education in terms of degrees than the members in the other two unions. Yet the NEA is the least productive of the three, by far, at least if you're talking about student achievement outcomes.

[Catshrink]

47. There are more variables

in "producing" and educated child than in producing a car, very few that teachers can control.

[SimonPhoenix]

70. Why is it that even after adjusting for inflation,

education spending has more than tripled since than the 1960s, teacher salaries have also risen tremendously, yet student achievement has gone down?

[Catshrink]

71. Has it? Are you believing the RW spin?

And, it used to be that a teacher could raise a family on a teacher's salary -- not anymore. Most of us barely make ends meet. Education spending may be up, but it sure isn't showing up in my paycheck. I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about when you talk about teacher salaries.

[kwassa]

75. Do you have any source for your outrageous claim?

I'd be very happy to see it.

[SimonPhoenix]

77. You're misunderstanding the comma,

I'm not saying that teacher's salaries have outstripped inflation. I'm saying that education spending in general has outstripped inflation.

[Catshrink]

84. Part of that extra spending has to do with testing and sped requirements.

There are a number of laws requiring "free and approriate" education for learning and otherwise disabled kids -- this requires smaller classes and more specialized training. Our small district pays an outrageous amount of money on sped for a psycholgist, sped director who makes sure we cross our t's and dot our i's so the feds don't get on us for noncompliance, a head sped teacher, 7-8 case managers, maybe 8 para-pros, and a smaller group of teachers and aides who take care of about 8 kids in the self-contained classrooms (the severely disabled). (Charter schools don't have this issue -- they don't have to accept kids with disabilities.) I'm hoping that others who know more about the issues of sped funding will chime in here. Then there are the costs of technology and the unfunded mandates. It's not the little one room school house anymore.

[SimonPhoenix]

85. I have no problem with spending money on special education

I do have a problem throwing good money after bad in failing urban schools like the one I attended, where half the kids who weren't "learning disabled" were just lazy and unmotivated, which is partially the fault of their parents. But the blame has to be shared between the teachers and the parents.

I know that when I attended high school in D.C. (graduated in 1996), my teachers, for some reason, had seemingly stopped caring. It's almost like the life went out of them. Maybe they got tired of being cursed out by gangstas when they asked said gangstas for their science homework: "Bitch, I don't need to know no science" was a typical response. So teachers shouldn't shoulder all of the blame for this situation, obviously, but regardless of the reason, unmotivated teachers teaching unmotivated students is a recipe for disaster.

I think part of it is race demographics as well. The District schools were a lot whiter when my parents were in school. Many of my fellow blacks in middle and high school seemed to get a kick out of making our teachers' days as close to a living hell as you could imagine, whether that meant throwing erasers at them when their backs were turned to the class, or shoving them up against a locker when a teacher gave them a grade that they didn't like-- anything seemed to be fair game. Teachers need adequate financial resources, for sure, but schools also need the authority to permanently expel students from public schools if the students are no longer interested in learning. Why should the few digilent students in these schools suffer simply because some people have decided that they'd rather be a crack dealer than actually make something of themselves? Rhetorical question I guess.

I don't have the solutions for you. We obviously can't kick all of the minority students out of the schools, but I swear that the kids attending high schools in DC today are even worse than the ones I graduated with 14 years ago.

[Catshrink]

86. I hear you.

I have some kids who don't want to do anything either -- and this is a suburban school in a community with a high median income. How do I spend my limited time? Helping kids who really care and want to learn or fighting an uphill battle to get the lazies to do anything, even bring a pencil to class? Parents aren't much help, but can influence their kids to some degree. But the same kids continue to do nothing. I've decided that since they are 17 years old and want to be treated like adults, then I'll do just that -- and they'll have to accept adult consequences for their decisions. I actually think that's a very valuable lesson, maybe more important than my content area. But I do feel guilty for not doing more to get them to do some work -- then again, there's only so much of me to go around. So do I "waste" time on the lazy kid or spend it where it seems to do the most good -- helping a kid who really wants to learn? When I first started teaching I had the pie in the sky belief that I could reach 'em all. I've realized that I'm human and have limitations.

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. It makes me physically ill

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. It would probably piss off a lot of people who support teachers, causing

the opposite of the intend effect.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. National strikes have not been held in the US for many years

Been some recent calls here for national days of action etc which have by and large been massively ignored as well.

[inna]

21. And your point is.... Is national strike a good idea? Or a bad idea?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

27. My point is that theorizing about one in the US is a waste of bandwidth

Why not consider things that are possible and useful instead.

[inna]

33. Thanks for message discipline. NOT.

:thumbsdown:

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

3. The Thomas B. Fordham Institute: Conservative. Wants school "choice". Lovely.

[Starry Messenger]

7. The Cato Institute and the Hoover Institute have been wanking on this theme for years.

Obama's going to give it to them.

[QC]

25. Making wingnuts like him seems to be the president's greatest goal in life.

It's an obsession.

[Starry Messenger]

41. Well, the wingnuts have been experts in funnelling money to themselves

and their cronies. Perhaps there is method behind this obsession.

[Skittles]

4. tough love for teachers but not for bankers and torturers

fuck that

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. Glad you get it

Wish everyone else did.

[Skittles]

79. you'd have to be a complete fucking idiot not to get it

[Bluebear]

80. That's my friend.

:loveya:

[Skittles]

81. I CAN'T TAKE IT I TELL YOU PT

I am so fucking tired of seeing the "chickens rooting for Colonel Sanders" mentality that has infiltrated DU - it's depressing to admit we have ignorance and idiocy on a scale that sometimes seemingly rivals the freepers we so love to mock :(

[bullwinkle428]

66. Nor health insurance companies, Blackwater, the Cheney family,

etc., etc., etc., lather, rinse, repeat! ;)

[w4rma]

5. #^(% Obama on this issue. There, I said it. Obama is a damn Wall Street union buster. (nt)

[applegrove]

15. Neocons want control about what your child learns in school. We need to promote

strong public education. Where will these kids go to school now that their teachers are gone? Are they still in the public system or what?

[inna]

17. KR. Abhorrent on part of the Obama administration. nt

[msongs]

18. guess his kids dont go to public schools eh? nt

[Dinger]

20. He Is Spitting In The Face Of Teachers And Unions

It'll cost him.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. As discussed in other threads as well, where else are they going to go?

They are a captive audience who as a practical matter have no where else to go, and the administration knows it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. It's not about where we will go; it's about where we won't be

I chose to work on local elections in 08 and said no every time the Obama people called me. I also gave nearly $1000 to local races instead of to Obama. I did put an Obama sticker on my car but it's gone now. I always work on elections at my union office but in 08 I did not. If they endorse Obama in 12 I won't be there to help. The big difference is that I don't know any fellow members willing to help Obama get elected again. This idea of automatically supporting a Democrat because we are teachers is gone now. Obama lost us and we will stay gone if he continues his attack on public education.

He's definitely lost my vote. I can't see voting for Republican so I will vote third party or not vote at all in that race.

[amborin]

26. corporate and Wall Street "love"

[riderinthestorm]

29. This is such a distressing move by Obama and his Admin.

For the life of me I can't understand why he'd do this. He and Michelle and all of their extended family are the product of public schools. They, more than most, should understand the dynamic and balance of family, school location, teachers, poverty, and federal requirements.

This makes absolutely no sense why he would eviscerate public schools in obeisance to charters. It's crazy. And crazy making for me. I am so depressed about this.

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. Look at where they are sending their daughters to school

[ProgressiveProfessor]

37. Don't forget where Obama went to school in Hawaii

Punahou...college prep school for the seriously rich.

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. I went to a prep school for the seriously rich also

But I was taught to always support public education. And I do.

Where you were educated is not an excuse. I won't accept it from anyone, especially Barack Obama.

[Bluebear]

76. likewise

[Starry Messenger]

45. Michelle is but Obama isn't actually

Punahou is a private college prep:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punahou_School#Notable_students_and_faculty

He was there from 5th grade through high school.

[QC]

39. No constituency left unbetrayed! n/t

[MadHound]

44. Fine Obama, hope that you and the Dems are ready for some "tough love" this fall and in 2012

Because that's all you're going to get from teachers.

[Mari333]

60. he keeps screwing the goose

how clueless are these people? it is like they live in Mars.

[rug]

62. I'm facing a similarly hard choice in 2012.

[JVS]

63. I hope he's ready for some tough love at the ballot box.

[Dinger]

67. Tough Is An Understatement

It'll be ugly enough this November.

[tonysam]

82. "Tough love" from Obama = "Tough shit" in 2012. n/t

[Generator]

83. I know it's so wrong to bring the kids into it

But take a look see at what it costs to be an Obama child: At his children's school:Sidwell Friend's.

Oh and that's times two. YEP, his kid education is more than most teacher's salary ever will be.

Next time, let's elect a man of the people instead of one of the millionaires, okay?


http://www.sidwell.edu/admissions/tuition-and-fees/index.aspx

Tuition and Fees
Tuition for 2009-2010
Lower School
$29,842
Middle and Upper Schools
$30,842

Tuition includes a daily hot lunch and Lower School textbooks.

Additional annual fees are:
Lower School Parents Association Fee $50
Middle School Parents Association Fee $55
Upper School Parents Association Fee $75
Middle School Textbooks $250-$300
Upper School Textbooks $500-$600
Bus Transportation (Optional)
Daily trips between Washington, DC and Bethesda, MD campuses $695/$995
Lower School Aftercare (Optional)
1 to 5 days per week $1,485 to $5,250
Middle School Aftercare (Optional) $650 per trimester

[RainDog]

88. utter bullshit

if Obama wanted to deal with the problems of poor students, he needs to raise taxes on the rich and put that money into improving the lives of the poor.

I won't hold my breath on that one.