Okay DUers, a tough job for you: Come up with your own immigration reform plan

[MessiahRp]

I'm curious as to the diversity of ideas that would spring forth from the many intellectuals on this board.

Obviously this is a complex issue but certainly one that could use a well defined policy that is both sensitive to the Mexican immigrants and sensitive to the American workers whose jobs are jeopardized by cheap labor as well as social services that are overburdened by the increased case load.

This is your chance to be a policy wonk on one of the most important issues domestically that our country faces.

Let em' rip.

;-)

Rp

[xultar]

1. I think if we deport the republics we'll have room to give amnesty to everyone on the list.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. First, deport Lou Dobbs.

[Horse with no Name]

3. I agree with bringing people out of the shadows

Make the application process easier. Cut out the middlemen--Immigration Attorneys and coyotes.
Make a set of benchmarks for the immigrant to fulfill in a certain number of years. Simply showing up at an appointed agency to fill out the necessary paperwork and being granted legal temporary SS cards and legal temporary identification. Make the rules for obtaining Drivers Licenses the same as they are for citizens. Show ID and insurance. Institute an Immigrant Tax of 1-2% during this time period to cover administrative costs. Immigrants should stay gainfully employed...if at any time they remain more than 3 months without employment, a hearing should be held to determine why. At the end of the pre-set number of years, application should be granted.

[ddbaj]

5. Simple.

No entity has the right to relocate you and infringe on your freedom of movememnt based on imaginary political lines. Anyone who wants to come should be allowed and amnesty for the people who are currently "illegal" under this draconian law.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

16. I agree. Where on the planet one is born should not

... be a determining factor as to where one can settle or seek gainful employment. Freedom of movement should be a basic human right for ALL Earth's human inhabitants. This should be part of a body of widely accepted international law.

[pampango]

20. Freedom of movement is a wonderful concept/right, but

many at DU will not grant that out of fear that it impacts American workers. The idea of fining those employers who hire "illegal" immigrants is very popular here. It is deemed the more "compassionate" way to deal with the issue, even though the end result is the same as with the "build the fence and enforce the border" strategy - no more illegal immigrants.

Those who want to fine employers do not recognize any right to freedom of movement. Is it really a right, if we do not allow it function? Kind of like with free speech and other rights, do they exist inherently even when they are not recognized in a particular country?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

21. Good questions...

... I suppose it boils down to a clashing of rights -- we're granting ourselves the "right," by our own presumed authority, to mark off a huge chunk (over 3.5 million square miles) of abundantly fertile land in the western hemisphere, essentially for our own exclusive use. Do we have this right, morally speaking? Most Americans would say we do. Did native American Indians have any such right? Our forefathers said they didn't, and backed that claim up using military force.

If history is any indication, we will enjoy this right to exercise exclusive dominion over this huge area of land we call America only until other humans come in greater numbers and/or with superior weapons to say we don't actually have any such right, and are prepared to back up their claim with force -- just as the early settlers from Europe did to native American Indians.

Here is Wiki's treatment of the term "right:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right

[pampango]

25. It is interesting that all of us at DU oppose discrimination in

employment based on gender, race, ethnicity, or religion, even if one could argue that white male WASP's would make more if there was discrimination against members of these groups. But many, probably most, here at DU would support "discrimination" based on the geography of a person's birth, based on the belief that their participation serves to reduce the wages of the "native" people.

[stellanoir]

4. Fine the employers a million bucks per illegal immigrant and/or stop

charging the illegals more than they can possibly afford and creating insurmountable hurdles for them become legal citizens.

It's so inhumane.

I still can't believe what they did to those illegals in New Bedford, MA and their little kids a while ago.

So cruel and still not remedied.

[ddbaj]

6. No human is "illegal"

[stellanoir]

15. Ya got that right

The idiocy of this whole notion has spawned such resurgence of bigotry I foolishly thought we'd transcended long ago.

What did Lady Liberty say. . .something like". . .send me your weak and your down trodden. . .?"

She didn't say, "so we can have them work at slave wages, erect enormously impossible obstacles to them attaining citizenship, and then sweep them away and incarcerate them more than a thousand miles away, leaving their young children, home alone, hungry, and defenseless."

Some days my country is completely unrecognizable to me. Yikes.

[leftofthedial]

7. ship everyone who is not a Native American

back to wherever they came from

[Critters2]

9. I came from Iowa, and would love to go back.

Thanks!!

[leftofthedial]

13. Then we send the Native Americans back across the Bering land bridge

Then, we send everyone back to Africa

Then we build a giant wall around Africa.

Wait a minute. There won't be any "we" to build the wall.

Damn!

[Critters2]

8. Impose HUGE fines on the employers,

such that hiring workers for less than minimum wage is no longer economically feasible for them.

[Warpy]

10. First, start enforcing the damn laws

You know, the laws that levy a fine for EACH illegal an employer hires. A few busts and bankruptcies down the road, the jobs will dry up and the reason to come here will evaporate.

Second, decide each case on its own merits. People who have been here for 10 years, put down roots, paid taxes, bought property, and had kids here should be granted an amnesty. These are the kind of folks we want.

People here less than 5 years really should go home, but the right way. The whole family needs to go. Rounding up workers and abandoning their children in day care is the GOP way. We can do much better than that.

Illegals who have committed a crime in the last 5 years need to go, period. So should some folks here legally. Russian Mafiosi come to mind. So do some of the drunks on the road.

This is complicated, I know, but there's seldom a simple, one size fits all answer to a complex problem.

At least enforce the laws. Oh, and never, ever vote GOP.

[lazer47]

11. You are exactly right

we don't need new laws, just start enforcing the ones we already have.

[mainegreen]

26. Agreed.

Enforce the laws dammit!

[ret5hd]

12. Very simple: The EXACT same restrictions apply to the...

movement of people across international boundaries that corporations have moving capital and jobs across international boundaries.

[Dhalgren]

14. Raise the minimum wage to $10.00/hr. and give all foreign workers,

currently employed, legal status. Require and enforce the minimum wage for all workers. Any employers who were found guilty of any breach would be punished severely. That would solve the problem.

[hedgehog]

23. Bravo - also, how about setting up an honest quota favoring immigrants from Mexico?

Plot the rise in immigration from Mexico against the passage of NAFTA and you'll find out that we helped cause this problem.

[meldroc]

17. Amnesty for current illegal immigrants, give them an easy path to green cards.

The biggest problem with illegal immigration is that the corporatists are using them to drive wages down. Because they're illegal, can get deported, thrown in jail at any moment, can't be legally employed, that gives companies a huge stick they can hit them with if they act up, thus, they can force them to work for tiny wages, no benefits, atrocious hours, unsafe working conditions, etc. The companies can make them virtual slaves, which they throw as competition against legal American workers, driving their wages and benefits down, and driving them to tolerate crappier working conditions.

As Horse with no Name said, give them a set of benchmarks to fulfill. An illegal immigrant can become a green-card holder if he fills out some forms, pays a small processing fee, doesn't have any violent felonies. At that point, he gets a green card, a social security card, can get a driver's license. Provided he follows the rules, he can become a citizen if he wants. At this point, the immigrant has the same working status as an American worker, which means he can legally get hired, doesn't have to worry about being deported or jailed, and the corporatists don't have the big stick they want to wield against them to drive down all worker's wages and benefits. Sure the total supply of workers will go up, but the workers will stand on an equal footing, and be better able to tell a bad employer "Take this job and shove it!"

On top of making the illegals legal, we need to crack down HARD on employers that continue to hire illegal labor. Make them pay enormous fines, and throw the management in jail if they continue to hire illegals, especially after they get amnesty and can get green cards.

[BlooInBloo]

18. Fine companies employing illegal immigrant $1, doubling for each additional.

EDIT: And yah, probably a clean slate blanket amnesty/green card for those who are already here.

[The2ndWheel]

19. Get rid of the corporation

Start there, and then keep going. Since that won't happen from the get-go, the problem won't be solved.

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. First thing, instead of spending the BILLIONS of $$ on an illegal war, hire THOUSANDS of border

patrol to man the borders wherever they're needed AND hire THOUSANDS of inspectors/investigators to inspect/investigate businesses/corporations.. Then, pass a law that states it is ILLEGAL to hire ILLEGAL immigrants (it may be illegal already, but NOT enforced...I dunno). Have mandatory, spontaneous investigations/inspections of all businesses. IF ANY employer has hired ILLEGAL immigrants, they are fined BIG BUCKS. $100-$300,000 PER ILLEGAL employee. As soon as the word spreads throughout the business/corporate world that you will pay DEARLY for hiring illegals, the practice will stop immediately. MONEY means EVERYTHING to those people. It'll hit them where it hurts the most, their pocketbooks. IF people know they cannot come here illegally and get a job, they won't come anymore.

As for our current illegal immigrants...it's IMPOSSIBLE to round them all up and deport them. Many have children who are U.S. CITIZENS. Can't be done. They should be able to stay and work toward citizenship.

The onus should be on the people who HIRE THEM. Make them pay for breaking the law.

[hedgehog]

24. You have a choice- if you want to fine employers, everyone will

have to show some kind of forgery proof (Ha!) ID. That's just one step from having every security type asking to see your papers. Personally, I'd rather tolerate the illegals.

This problem is very complex. The guy I worked for packing onions was hiring illegals, and everyone knew it. They also worked harder than the Americans willing to work at the low wages he paid. On the other hand, he couldn't afford to raise wages because Walmart was driving him to the wall. This guy was a small farmer. A lot of farmers around here have a couple of illegals helping thme milk cows. No dairy farmer is lving easy, believe me.

On the other hand, every large hotel chain in the country is dependent on illegals as well. Who do you think makes up the rooms every day.

Reform should be aimed at working conditions, not at the workers.

[KharmaTrain]

27. So Are We Stuck On "12 Million" Illegals?

Riddle me this one. Seems like anytime the number of "illegals" is mention, 12 million spews out of Lou Doobies or whomever. Now, that's the same number I heard quoted a year ago and two years ago when this "issue" first appeared. Now if we're being "invaded" and there were 12 million here 2 years ago, and there's still 12 million here now...are we being invaded by invisible Mexicans?

Of course, I've always been dubious about the number...as of all people, illegals are purposely kept as underground as possible. Is there a reliable, verifiable source that really keeps track of these things?

I've long felt this "issue" is one to divert attention away from the union busting, outsourcing and cheap labor practices of corporations. Blame the victim...damn those Mexicans for leaving their home with just the clothes on their back, giving their money and life to some "coyote" for the privilidge of walking for 2 days across a stinkin' desert only to end up picking grapes or painting someone's house for below the prevailing wage...keeping wages low both on this side and the Mexican side of the border.

Until people look at the winner in this "issue" as opposed to seeing this as an "immigration" problem, it'll be used as a political strawman/game.