Naomi Wolf Thinks the Tea Parties Help Fight Fascism -- Is She On to Something or in Fantasy Land?

[Echo In Light]

Naomi Wolf, author of 'End of America,' talks about why she has become an improbable Tea Party darling, and if progressives can learn from the conservative activists.

In her bestselling End of America, Naomi Wolf outlines the 10 warning signs that America is headed toward a fascist takeover. Using historical precedents, she explains how our government is mimicking those of Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin through practices like surveillance of ordinary citizens, restricting the press, developing paramilitary forces and arbitrarily detaining people.

The book was lauded by liberals under Bush: the Independent Publishers gave it the Freedom Fighter Award; the Nation named it the best political book of 2007. Now, under President Obama, Wolf's book is providing ammunition for the Tea Partiers, Patriots, Ron Paul supporters and Oath Keepers, who also warn of impending tyrannical government. Even when the book first came out pre-Obama, Alex Jones, Michael Savage and Fox News invited her on their shows, and agreed with her.

It’s not just her message. She speaks their language, referring to the Founding Fathers and American Revolution as models, admitting to a profound sense of fear, warning of tyranny, fascism, Nazism and martial law. When Glenn Beck warns of these things we laugh. When Wolf draws those same connections, we listen. How can both sides be speaking the same language, yet see things so differently? Or are we just not listening to each other? I telephoned Wolf to ask her what it means when your book ends up bolstering policies you oppose.

Interview continued:
http://www.alternet.org/news/146184/naomi_wolf_thinks_the_tea_parties_help_fight_fascism_--_is_she_on_to_something_or_in_fantasy_land__

[Echo In Light]

1. Bump

[Skidmore]

49. DUers don't "bump"

they kick.

[Echo In Light]

2. Bump

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

3. She's drawing the wrong conclusions. The bulk of these people are enablers of fascism.

I have yet to hear one, even one of them talk about how they protested the attacks on the Constitution perpetrated by the Bush Crime Family. I'm willing to bet that if these teabaggers got their choice of candidates in office and achieved real power. They wouldn't think twice about putting her "commie ass" behind bars.

[upi402]

4. Obviously ^+1

Should be very obvious. And to hope for the law of unintended consequences to come into play is dangerous. There are powerful players at work in this corporatist putsch on its way.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

6. Yeah somehow I don't see the puppeteers like the Koch brothers rushing to buy

her book, or have a "civil" discussion with her or any of us.

[ShortnFiery]

11. No, but there are elements within that they can discuss.

That's understood, but not everyone is "hard core" within either the GOP or the Tea Parties.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

17. They can discuss all they want till the cows come home. As I said the bulk of

these people were nowhere to be found during the previous 8 years or the 16 years before that. The somehow have a way of materializing every time some billionaire jerkoff throws some money at them and says "Hey look a commie. Fetch!". That much is obvious. All one has to do is look at the candidate in New York who teabagged the Republican. Make no mistake if these people achieve their goals they won't think about it twice before slashing your "socialist" throat. They'll go after the Naomi Wolf's faster than you can say David Frum.

[Cha]

45. "Fight facism"..they're fucking contributing to it whether

they're too dumb to see it or not.

[defendandprotect]

51. "Johnny, get your gun" ends free speech and communication . . IMO --

[tom_paine]

14. Exactly. She is drawing the wrong conclusions and these people will "melt away"

once an RW Authoritarian governement is back in control as it was from 2001-8.

That's what she's missing. MAYBE 1 in 10 Oath Keepers would question the orders to round up "those subversive Liberals and Commies" if given the order to do so. The other 9 will happily do so, without even once realizing that was what they took their oath against.

And I wouldn't want to be the 1 in 10 who asks, "Didn't we form Oath Keepers to swear that we wouldn't particpate in something like this?" because that person is going to the Liberal Relocation Camps with the Liberals.

"We promised we wouldn't round-up law abiding REAL Americans, not Liberal Terrorists!"

Naomi's got it wrong - a bad case of wishful thinking and a willful ignorance of the pattern of RW Authoritarianism and who is behind the Teabaggers.

[salguine]

15. They're not any more enablers of fascism than the Senators and congressmen who hand

our country over to Wall Street.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

16. The politicians are active participants (corporatists). These people are enablers who go right along

with it all until the "wrong person" gets in power. They are hypocrites and wouldn't open their mouths if say President Romney was doing the exact same thing they accuse the current administration of doing. As I said not one of these people have claimed to have opposed bush when he was wiping his ass with the constitution. Now all of a sudden I'm supposed to believe their outrage just 'cause Dick Armey and some billionaires are using them like the puppets that they are?

[cali]

27. you can bet your ass that if they had that power

they'd be far, far worse.

[Cha]

44. Who knew she would be so ignorant?

Meanwhile, the teahadists are threatening Rep Grayson's 5 year old son!

[walldude]

5. Well if Alex Jones, Michale Savage and Fox News agree with her

she must know what shes talking about. It's not easy to convince the most paranoid people on the fucking planet that they aren't really paranoid... it's all true. :rofl: :rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

12. Agreed, all three are "out there" and can't be roped into a sane discussion.

I just listened to this "Alex Jones" yesterday. DAMN! He's out there man, way lost ... as well as anti-choice.

However, I don't viscerally despise Alex Jones as much as Michael Savage or the FOX News Channel.

[defendandprotect]

52. Yes, but Naomi Wolf is allegedly on the left . . . we have to deal with her ...and we should!

[amborin]

7. some insights into fascism:

http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/fascism_and_war/fascism.htm

http://www.anesi.com/Fascism-TheUltimateDefinition.htm

http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~wright/SOC621/2005%20syllabus%20Sociology%20621.pdf

http://www.workers.org/ww/1999/fascism0304.php


(no time to read these now; a "class" explanation of fascism is missing from the links; most of them present a statist explanation; there are other explanations)

[Nikki Stone1]

8. +1

These are very interesting. Thank you.

[nemo137]

9. I'd add Griffin and Eatwell in there, as well

Griffin's spent most of his career trying to arrive at a "fascist minimum" - the bare essential set of characteristics a movement should have to be called fascist.

“Fascism is a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultra-nationalism.” (Griffin, Roger. The Nature of Fascism. London: Pinter 1991: p.26)

Palingenetic refers to rebirth, in this case national rebirth. There are a couple less unwieldy definitions, but this is the one Griffin suggested to start discussion of the fascist minimum. I think a better definition comes from a later work of his:
“ revolutionary form of nationalism bent on mobilizing all “healthy” social and political energies to resist the onslaught of “decadence” so as to achieve the goal of national rebirth, a project that involves the regeneration (palingenesis) of both the political culture and the social and ethical culture underpinning it.” (Griffin, Roger, with Matthew Feldman . Fascism: Critical Concepts, 5 vols. London: Routledge, 2004. v1 p6)

Roger Eatwell has a similar drive to define a fascist minimum, but states it as a "holistic-national third way," which is a much more limited definition that Griffin.

[leftstreet]

18. ^^ Eatwell's 'Fascism : A History' is well worth the read

:thumbsup:

Fascism is on the move once more, even if its moat sophisticated forms have had to learn to dress to suit the times…Never has the study of fascism - through all its history - been so timely.
Roger Eatwell

[nemo137]

20. I actually read it for fun before getting involved in this research

it's an enjoyable read (which made the brainbreaking ponderousness of his essay in generic fascism so confusing), and a good introduction to the concept.

[leftstreet]

21. LOL

'brainbreaking' :thumbsup:

It's one of those excellent things where you 'get' a concept six months after you've read it -
standing mindlessly brushing your teeth or such.
:-)

[amborin]

25. thanks for those references!

[nemo137]

26. I've actually got a small file full of definitions of fascism.

Believe it or not, for my senior thesis. Those three are, in my opinion, the most helpful and most concise, but I find Mann and Payne's to be useful as well.

[amborin]

32. here's a really great class analysis of fascism's rise in Italy:

http://www.greenwood.com/books/printFlyer.aspx?sku=C5864&location=international

[defendandprotect]

53. I haven't, of course, read this, as yet . . . however, fascism/dictatorships were invented long ago-

2,000 years ago, for instance, with organized patriarchal religion --

"male-supremacist" religion which oppressed more than half the population!

"The bird with one wing" is fascism . . .

[Echo In Light]

24. Hey, thanks for the sourcing

:thumbsup:

[ShortnFiery]

10. Many of us are both fighting the rule of Corporatism. There are some sane republicans

that I can carry on a conversation with.

I despise CORPORATE politicians, one and all, regardless of their stripes. :shrug:

[defendandprotect]

54. Agree . . . and the entire concept of corporations, IMO, is intended to escape accountability...

whether from a partner or the public!

[librechik]

13. it's well known some of the Teas issues intersect with some of ours

but we differ on how to lobby--we liberals have been taught to behave civilly and try for discussion--Teas have been taught to wait till they get mad then start yelling screaming and throwing things. We would probably destroy each other if we tried a colalition.

Besides, despite what they claim THEY ARE RACIST ASSHOLES!

And we are not. And sometimes we're even black.

We exist to try and solve the problems which lead to racism. They just want to kill everybody who's the wrong shade.

[Echo In Light]

19. Bump

[robertpaulsen]

22. No. The Tea Party "Big Tent" invites racism & excludes progressives.

Sure, an award winning author like Wolf can be welcomed by them as a curiosity at best or a mascot at worst, but her message does not match Glenn Beck on one important factor: racism. Beck is a racist, which comes through not just in his race-based Obama paranoia, but his entire world view. Beck's ideological hero http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/16/beck_skousen">W. Cleon Skousen was a racist who described slave owners as the "worst victims" in the slavery system.

Beck may not have been the first to rally for a "Tea Party", but he is their primary pied piper through his "9/12" and "We Surround Them" call to arms. While there may be certain people within their "Big Tent" that I might find common cause with, (I'll stand together with anyone who opposes the Patriot Act and the Bogus War on Terror; plus I'm no fan of the Federal Reserve or any non-transparent institution), there is no way to "learn" from activists who stand side by side with racists.

[defendandprotect]

55. Agree -- Naomi acknowledged the racism involved, but not sufficiently IMO --

but she didn't acknowledge the "Johnny, get your gun" nature of the T-baggers

and how that shuts down the very communication she's trying to bring about!!

[Warren DeMontague]

23. And I'm sure the brownshirts thought they were saving Germany from "Jewish tyranny", too.

The "tea party" is nothing more than an appendage of the Republican Party. Witness their howls of 'revolution' at the prospect of spending a few dollars on health coverage, yet we heard nary a peep when Bush was trucking duffel bags of taxpayer cash over to Iraq.

[Radical Activist]

28. She makes a good point about educated, urban liberals.

They were stepping up to the plate, when my own liberal privileged fellow demographic habituates were lying around whining. It was a wake-up call to the libertarians that there’s a progressive who cares so much about the same issues. Their views of liberals are just as distorted as ours are of conservatives.

JS: Why do you think the sides don’t understand each other?

NW: Frankly, liberals are out of the habit of communicating with anyone outside their own in cohort. We have a cultural problem with self-righteousness and elitism. Liberals roll their eyes about going on "Oprah" to reach a mass audience by using language that anyone can understand even if you majored in semiotics at Yale. We look down on people we don’t agree with. It doesn’t serve us well.

But she's forgetting that most fascist movements grow from outside the government and then take it over. It's about much more than abuse of government power like we saw under Bush.

[EFerrari]

34. Her statement says more about her and her circle

than it does about the actual majority of Democrats -- who have not majored in Semiotics at Yale. Yale?

[defendandprotect]

50. Naomi also took that stance on "abortion" that we needed to be more compassionate to anti-

abortionists . . . and listen more to their concerns!

And, Democratic Party has adopted some of that thinking -- Hillary has gotten into it.

Dem Party now has "pro-life" group in Congress!

Not helpful -- IMO

[noise]

29. I don't think she gets the teabagger movement

The teabaggers were basically on the side of the insurance companies. Cheering for Shock Doctrine economic policies. Scapegoating the left for right wing policies that left the country in a mess.

She is right to hold the Obama administration to the same standard of conduct as the Bush administration.

[Radical Activist]

30. This is a good example of the failure of the non-existant populist radical left.

In the great depression we had communists, socialists, radicals and others organizing communities to take direct action on the problems she speaks about in this article. The tea party is organizing many people who would feel at home in a radical Alinsky-style community organizing campaign. Yet, we rarely do that that kind of organizing on the left anymore. ACORN is an exception, which is why they had to be taken out.

It's another consequence of the DC-establishment orientation of the Democratic party and moderate DLC, anti-populist approach to politics. We're getting out-organized because most of the progressive movement is afraid to get out of the major cities, be controversial and engage in aggressive direct action tactics. Writing critical letters whining about how Obama isn't liberal enough just doesn't cut it.

[EFerrari]

35. Look at what happens right here on this board when there is the smallest show

of civil disobedience.

And, I disagree with you about organizing. Plenty of people organize locally but you don't know about it because it isn't reported. More, the Democratic Party doesn't want anything to do with it. They'd never send people out to those events as the Republicans send McMore and Armageddon Spice. That's where the real disconnect is. The populist left is usually derided if not kicked in the teeth by both parties where the populist right is deferred to by the Republicans.

[Echo In Light]

38. Yup

[defendandprotect]

43. Agree with you -- and there should have been Dem Party rallies for Medicare for all -- !!

I prefer the rallies cause right now I'd be very cautious about getting the

LEFT out in the streets with the "Johnny, get your gun" RIGHTIES --


No one but elites would benefit from any resulting violence.

[Echo In Light]

47. True. And the establishment would play the 'both sides are to blame' bullshit

[Radical Activist]

57. I'm thinking of Democrats

who wouldn't want to be seen at a large rally sponsored by Greenpeace or ACORN. God forbid someone think they're a liberal hippie. You make a good point that cowardly Democratic officials often see left organizations as interest groups that have to occasionally be humored instead of supporting them as allies. Much of it goes back to corporate funding of campaigns.

That's why it's not enough to tolerate turncoat conservative Democrats like Blanche Lincoln. In the long run, they hurt the progressive movement even if they do help keep a Democratic majority. She needs to be defeated in the primary, bad.

[Echo In Light]

31. Bump

[upi402]

33. Why does Naomi make false claims?

She said snobby liberals don't like it when somebody goes on the Oprah show and uses everyday, easy to understand language.

WTF?

I always push for that stuff, myself. And I love to see pundits and politicians say the word-Republican- instead of trying to be stately -"My esteemed friend" or "the other side of the isle" - Hell we understand that Fox news is popular and that folks are misinformed and low info voters. Ya gotta talk to the audience and not preach to the choir.

Oprah is one thing, Fox is another.

[defendandprotect]

56. Agree . . . well said!

[Hannah Bell]

36. naomi wolf, yale, rhodes scholar, ex-wife of clinton speechwriter, political consultant to al gore,

"lifestyle feminist," author of fluffy rehash "the beauty myth," is a political hack.

[cali]

37. oh fuckity fuck fuck fuck. I agree with you.

that's disturbing.

[blindpig]

39. lol

So do I.

Feeling more disturbed?:-)

[cali]

40. it's like the cream in my coffee is off.

[NeedleCast]

46. I feel like I should disagree with you all to keep the fabric of reality intact

[EFerrari]

41. You had me at Yale.

LOL

[defendandprotect]

42. Origin of T-baggers was "bought and paid for" by GOP, but LEFT should be out in streets, as well...

the problem right now is the T-baggers have been allowed to proceed with such

aggression and "guns" that any counter demonstrations would either not be able to

be heard, or the mix could create violence. No one but elites would profit from

that.

The LEFT has to express itself person to person --

"Medicare for All" buttons --

PEACE SYMBOLS on one's person -- they've actually come back in women's bracelets and

necklaces --

"End the wars" conversations --


PS: Just want to add that the LEFT should have been "out in the streets" long ago.

Now the right has taken them over, so to speak.

Democrats should have called us out to demonstrate for single payer health care.

Unions should have called us out to rally --

Women's groups should have called us out to rally --

How many liberal organizations FAILED to call us out -- except the anit-war groups?

And how has that hurt us and the issues we have been arguing for? It hasn't!


Re Naomi Wolf -- she gets off the track every now and then --

She was one of the originators or thinkers pushing a softer liberal approach on abortion --

considering with more compassion the thinking of the anti-abortionists!

Hillary adopted some of that --

Meanwhile, is Naomi also supporting this "Johnny, get your gun" approach to social problems?

[defendandprotect]

48. Late K&R . . . if you read the interview, Noami doesn't seem to be giving

them credit -- except for coming out!

And the idea that we have to be out there, as well.

What seems to be escaping her attention, however, is the very aggressive and

"Johnny, get your gun" right wing approach to social issues. This isn't healthy for America.

And, she should speak to those points --

Obviously, this "gun" approach to social issues is an intimidation to the other side.

An intimidation against anyone having a counter-opinion.

Take another look, Naomi!