I've got a question about the possible effects of pot on a teenage brain

[Duer 157099]

I spent my teenage years stoned (the 70s). I mean daily. Beginning around age 13 or so up until 21. So, 8 full years stoned.

Now that I have a teen who is experimenting, much to my disapproval, I am beginning to wonder if my own pot history has had a significant impact on my development, either physically (on my brain) or mentally/emotionally. I never really thought about this until I had to think about my own child possibly doing the same thing.

And if it does have an impact, what do you think it is? Does it make one more mellow throughout life? Or, does it do the opposite? And how does the effect differ for those who continue to use throughout adulthood vs. those who don't?

I'm thinking along the lines of state-dependent learning, which says that things we learn while our brains are in a certain state are easier to recall when the brain is back in that state.

This is just me thinking outloud right now, because I don't have any well formed ideas yet, it's all just question marks that I thought I'd bring here to see if anyone else has thought about it viz a viz their own experiences, or research they might know about, or whatever.

Don't misunderstand: this isn't about adults using pot, it's about teenagers. And I plan to vote in November for legalization in California, so this post isn't anti-pot.

So?

[SPedigrees]

1. I doubt it has an effect on teens per se. However on persons

with genes for a specific depressive inherited disorder, it can cause panic attacks. These stop months after marijuana use stops.

I speak from experience and from a medical article that I regret not saving. The panic attacks do not occur at the same time as pot smoking, but randomly in the pot smoker's life. Said article explained much for me, the debilitating panic episodes and their complete cessation some 6 months after I gave up mj, long ago in the early 70s.

[Duer 157099]

8. I did get panic attacks for a couple of years while in college

although I don't think I was smoking then, but you know how the memory goes... heheh uhhh

It's been decades since I've had a panic attack though. Yuck, those sucked.

[JuniperLea]

2. Me too...

And I smoked a fatty before taking my Mensa membership tests. I was nervous, so I lit up! Halfway through I thought, damn! What have I done? I'm doomed!

Naw... I passed with flying colors.

I know many potheads... one a scientist who was instrumental in a communications area we all use today... one a professor at an ivy league university... one the owner of a posh Beverly Hills catering company... we're all 50+ now and not seeing a problem.

I think it's far more benign than alcohol.

[Duer 157099]

6. I also did well academically while under the influence

and I went on to a career in science as well, so it's not that I think it makes people stupid, necessarily. However, I also wonder if I would have been even *smarter* if I hadn't ever smoked. Don't you ever wonder that?

[JuniperLea]

30. Yep... the thought had occurred to me...

And I batted it around a while. The intensity of thought plus the absence of agitation/fear/nervousness is a plus The Weed gave... but still, I wonder. I probably had it in me all the while, but I found it easier to get very focused while smoking.

Hard call.

[Romulox]

34. Pot doesn't damage the brain. A "scientist" should look at the facts. nt

[Duer 157099]

40. "Damage" is not the same as "altered" n/t

[Romulox]

43. Still, someone who works in "the sciences" should respect empirical fact more...

You are staking out what amounts to a "faith based" position. :hi:

[marylanddem]

3. I think teenage experimentation with pot is pretty much inevitable.

I did it & my kids did it & nobody ended up on heroin or totally screwed up. But there were some legal problems with one daughter smoking a bong with friends in a parked van & getting busted... That really sucked, going through the court business. I would just warn your kids to be really careful. While it's still illegal they could get in a lot of trouble by holding, selling, etc. Be as loving a parent as you can & try to get through these difficult years with compassion on all fronts.
I don't know whether too much pot hurts a developing brain but it sounds like you've got good thinking skills - maybe that's your answer!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. The only thing wrong with you...

is that you're missing a good opportunity to bond with your kid.

[Duer 157099]

9. LOL, well... that's sort of what I was thinking and how this thought train started

But he's underage (16) and I'm terrified of the legal ramifications. He knows that my objections are based on developmental issues (ie, his age) and of course the legal aspect.

[Redbear]

5. My understanding is that they are still studying the long-term effects

of teen marijuana use. But short term,there have been lots of studies indicating it is a lot more damaging to teens than adults:

http://www.uc.edu/News/NR.aspx?ID=9011

http://www.independent.ie/health/cannabis-far-more-toxic-to-the-adolescent-brain-1211216.html

If I recall correctly, studies are finding the same thing is true as to drinking.

[wtbymark]

7. only you can answer if it has affected you and...

your child is much like you - looking into your own history may give you insight into your childs experience. Some people take it well, some don't.
Personally - I mean daily from 15-41, I achieved multiple college degrees and am engaged in a succesful career and am living a pretty enriching and happy life so far with no health issues whatsoever. But that's me.

[Duer 157099]

10. Well honestly, I'm wondering if my mistake was in stopping

Seriously. If state-dependent learning applies, and if major critical aspects of our personalities emerge and develop through our teen years, then it follows that to be "normal" I need to be high, now.

Right?

[marylanddem]

13. The other plus in your situation is that your kid obviously has a connection

should the temptation to return to your youthful follies prove overwhelming.

[Duer 157099]

26. LOL, not that I haven't already considered that aspect...

Maybe I haven't gotten high in decades because I don't have any connections! LOL. Could be.

[tridim]

11. My early rules RE: Pot that I set for myself have stuck into adulthood..

That is, never smoke during the day and/or when I have things to do.

To this day I have never smoked during class or work. Only when my day is done do I enjoy the herb.

[movonne]

15. I think you have it right...

[Duer 157099]

25. I always did that too

I would skip school rather than go stoned. But I was able to do really well on homework while under the influence. Never ever went to work high, never.

[JuniperLea]

31. I used to have that rule too...

But it didn't "mellow me out" to the degree it seemed to for my friends. My sister and I called it "ambition" because after smoking, we couldn't sit still... and if we didn't have anything constructive to do, we played games, worked puzzles, etc. Most of my friends just wanted to sit around and smile:)

[elfin]

12. The most important part of the brain not developed during teen years

is the pre-frontal lobe, which impacts on judgement. This takes until the early to mid-twenties to completely form per my understanding. That is why there is so much risk taking by teens who do not correctly judge the situation they are in.

That is why there is so much experimentation with deleterious substances including alcohol in combination with sex, driving etc.

That is why gangs and military organizations have appeal to this age group because they do not correctly "judge" the consequences and thrill to the risk.

. That is why car insurance rates are so high for this age group and do not lessen until age 26.

I was a high school history teacher and on Fridays always gave a short explanation of the pre-frontal lobe. They laughed --- but maybe just a few took it to heart.

Not a neuroscientist here -- but have read plenty.

Substances regularly used during these years MAY influence a person to feel that they need them to feel "normal", and so they do not quit -- prime example - nicotine often adopted to rebel and then felt "needed" to navigate the real world.

As to pot in particular -- do not know -- but today's pot is much different and more potent than what you probably experienced as a youngster and may impact your kid more adversely than yourself.

[JonLP24]

50. It's the same drug

There is no change on average and there have always been more potent cannabis than other cannabis. In those cases users adjust their intake based on how potent it is, like alcohol users when they use liquor instead of beer.

[RagAss]

14. I think I read recently that it grows brain cells...but I may have been stoned.

[JuniperLea]

32. No wonder my head is so big!

:rofl:

[Xithras]

16. Yes, it matters

All of the studies on the subject have come to the same conclusion. The teen years are one of the brains more active periods of development, and the introduction of any substances that alter cognition, whether alcohol, marijuana, prescription drugs, or even environmental toxins, seem to have a permanent and irreversible impact on its growth. It seems to inhibit long term concentration and decision making skills, creating a cognitive deficit similar to that seen in ADHD patients.

The good news, as a parent, is that measurable cognitive damage apparently requires extensive use over a sustained period of time. Your kid isn't going to have any problems if he/she only lights one up every few weeks at a party with friends. You MAY have something to worry about if he/she is doing multiple bong pulls every weekday after school.

The old adage, "All good things in moderation" comes to mind. As the parent of a teen, I'm not going to worry too much if she experiments now and then. I will worry if it becomes a consistent thing.

And I plan on voting for legalization as well.

[jberryhill]

17. "I don't have any well formed ideas yet"

Well... there's your answer, LOL.

[Duer 157099]

20. *snort* you got me, lol n/t

[Iggo]

18. You and I both know yer kid ain't "experimenting."

Youdr kid is smoking pot...like millions and millions and millions and millions of other kids did.

It's good that you're worried, though. I respect that.

[marylanddem]

19. Yep, "experimenting" somehow became the euphemism for smoking.

They never say that about alcohol or cigarettes, do we - much more dangerous drugs.

[Gabi Hayes]

21. it all leads here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFc

[Duer 157099]

23. Well

thank effing god I don't need him to weave any webs!

:rofl:

[marylanddem]

27. Thanks for the great video - HIlarious!

[4lbs]

22. Your body and mind will suffer much worse effects from 10 years of regular drinking as a youth

than a decade of regular pot smoking from 16 to 26.

I'd venture a guess that those anti-government militia terrorists just arrested are regular heavy drinkers, dating back to their youth, but don't smoke pot all that much.

When's the last time a bunch of potheads plotted the overthrow of government or tried to kill police? They'd get tripped up driving near a Taco Bell. Making a "run for the border" means something different to a pothead than it does an anti-government militia wacko.

Note that I say potheads, meaning regular users of pot. It doesn't apply to drug dealers that grow and sell the stuff in mass quantity. Some of those dealers are affiliated with violent gangs and sometimes get into firefights with police, but legalization will cause them to fade away.

Take yourself. If you disagree with someone or something, would you be more predisposed to fire a gun or fire up a blunt?

[Duer 157099]

24. No disagreement here

I'm wondering if I need to take the habit up again (pot) so I can mellow the hell out, like I used to be when I was younger.

[Spike89]

28. Not a great way to go through life

I don't think there is any good evidence one way or another that pot has long-term health effects. However, I think being stoned the majority of the time during the crucial maturing phase is going to lead to some regrets. I wouldn't worry so much about "experimentation" but I'd certainly argue for some moderation--getting high all the time can be as mind constricting as never getting high.

[piratefish08]

29. I know it sounds cliche', but I always tested better just slightly stoned - I'm sure it was simply

my nerves being settled enough to focus on my test. I always studied straight though, so it wouldn't directly affect my retention of useless information.

I still smoke now, usually daily. I started in HS - 1982. I have 4 kids and a happy productive life.

My experience has been that the stereotypes generally don't apply.

[Romulox]

33. It makes one grow up to be hypocritical...

"I spent my teenage years stoned...I have a teen who is experimenting, much to my disapproval..."

:eyes:

[Duer 157099]

35. What is your definition of hypocritical? n/t

[Romulox]

36. Denying your son the good times YOU enjoyed on the grounds that he must be *better*

than you were, and what you have become.

It's both hypocritical and futile, imo.

[Duer 157099]

37. I think hypocrisy is verbally opposing behavior that one is actively engaged in

No?

I am not a teen smoking pot right now, so how can I be a hypocrite in this matter?

If you had asked me when I was 16 if I would disapprove of my future child doing the same and I concurred, then you could have called me, as a teen, a hypocrite. However, I can all but assure you that had you asked me that when I was 16, I would have said "hell no, I'll be getting high with him!"

But I don't follow how this applies now.

[Romulox]

44. I (and M-W.com) think that yours is a rather self-serving definition!

hypocrite

Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date: 13th century

1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite

Your version would mean that every person who is not actively engaging in misconduct in real time has the moral authority to lecture others. It's obviously self-serving.

[Duer 157099]

45. And your version

means that whatsoever a person believes when they are 13 remains consistent for the rest of their life and defines their set of values.

Why 13? Why not 12? Or 10? Why not 5? Once you decide to remove time as a factor in the equation, it seems you've slid down a helluva slippery slope.

[branders seine]

38. dude, like, um, what do you , like, um, want to like, um, you know,

Dude! This one time, I was like, you know . . .

[krabigirl]

39. I'm not sure, but I am glad I didn't try it until I was a later teen (17). i'm pro-legalization also

but I'm not sure about any mood-altering drug used regularly with a younger brain. Then again, 13 isn't 7, so there's probably no ill effect.

[guitar man]

41. delete

[damntexdem]

42. Any drug, including alcohol, as well as pot, can interfere with teenage development.

Use of any such substance is just not a good idea for a teen.

But try telling that to a teen.

[librechik]

46. Heres' a good article: "4 out of five drs recommend pot for ADHD kids

http://infohack.newsvine.com/_news/2008/02/19/1311528-4-out-of-5-doctors-recommend-marijuana-for-your-adhd-kid-

now I'll just duck out of the way of all the bricks heading my way from "liberals" who think pot is dangerous.

[Duer 157099]

47. That's very interesting

I have symptoms of adult ADHD, and the concept of ADHD kids self-medicating with pot could possibly explain some things.

On the other hand, I've wondered if my use of pot during my youth is what contributed to the ADHD.

I'll be interested in seeing how this research goes.

(the fact that I found it easier to study and do homework while stoned supports this idea)

[Wizard777]

48. I started smoking pot when I was 9 y/o. I'm now 78.

Does it stunt your growth? I don't think so. I'm also 6'11". Does it effect your development? I don't think so. I've always been considered well adjusted and highly intelligent. My highest IQ scores are over 200. No criminal convictions. Any arrests were associated with my job. I'm a retired executive bodyguard. Sometimes the people we deal with will file assault or excessive force charges against us.

But I'm also a hypocrite. even though I started smoking marijuana at a very young age. I'm against kids and teens smoking it recreationally. I'm okay with medicinal use. Especially for ADD.

[rucky]

49. Well, there's this 2008 study...

http://esciencenews.com/articles/2008/10/14/research.finds.marijuana.use.takes.toll.adolescent.brain.function

"Brain imaging shows that the brains of teens that use marijuana are working harder than the brains of their peers who abstain from the drug. At the 2008 annual meeting of the American Academy of Pediatrics in Boston, Mass., Krista Lisdahl Medina, a University of Cincinnati assistant professor of psychology, presented collaborative research with Susan Tapert, associate professor of psychiatry at the University of California, San Diego. Medina's Oct. 12 presentation, titled, "Neuroimaging Marijuana Use and its Effects on Cognitive Function," suggests that chronic, heavy marijuana use during adolescence – a critical period of ongoing brain development – is associated with poorer performance on thinking tasks, including slower psychomotor speed and poorer complex attention, verbal memory and planning ability. Medina says that's evident even after a month of stopping marijuana use. She says that while recent findings suggest partial recovery of verbal memory functioning within the first three weeks of adolescent abstinence from marijuana, complex attention skills continue to be affected.

"Not only are their thinking abilities worse, their brain activation to cognitive tasks is abnormal. The tasks are fairly easy, such as remembering the location of objects, and they may be able to complete the tasks, but what we see is that adolescent marijuana users are using more of their parietal and frontal cortices to complete the tasks. Their brain is working harder than it should," Medina says..."