i've been arguing with a friend of a friend on facebook.

[DesertFlower]

about HCR. she's a right winger. no surprise, her words are right of of the right wing talking points. said she doesn't want to live in a socialist country. how are we going to pay for it?

"Just wait until we start getting denied for heatlh care that is life saving because we are to old. What a wonderful future".

i told her to stop watching fox -- to tune into CNN or MSNBC to hear both sides of the issue.

i can't get away from these people. today i'm driving home and i hear sarah palin's irritating voice doing a pitch for john McCain.

[Mz Pip]

1. I think she needs

to look up the definition of socialism or at least explain to you how HCR is socialism. It's not even close.

Does she objuct to people being denied care due to pre-exisiting conditions? I always find it kind of ironic that these people are so afraid of the government but are more than will to be ripped off, manipulated and exploited by the private sector.

[Mind_your_head]

2. Yes.....

I think she needs to look up the definition of socialism or at least explain to you how HCR is socialism. It's not even close.

:thumbsup:

[BurtWorm]

14. Two points to push in this stupid fight: 1) The Democrats are not socialists

and if anyone can make any headway with that point: 2) Socialism is not such a bad idea. It actually works, when mixed with regulated market economics, much better than unregulated capitalism works--if we're talking about improving living standards across the board. If someone has trouble understanding why living standards have to be improved across the board, the burden of proof is on them to explain why they shouldn't be.

The fact is, American conservatives are getting pulled away from the idea of society and social contract toward a sort of pseudo-anarchy, which is actually more like a feudalism, in which power and wealth are ultra concentrated. I don't think they realize the consequences of buying everything FOX news and the captains of Republicanism are selling them.

[Rincewind]

3. My great uncle,

who passed away three years ago, was on the socialist government medical program Medicare. At the age of 93, they decided he was not too old for them to pay for quadruple bypass surgery. He died at the age of 94 1/2, several months after falling and hitting his head. He was in and out of the hospital several times, and the government bureaucrats paid all the bills without question.

[DesertFlower]

4. my grandparents were both on medicare

and got great care. same with my mom. she went to the same doctor as i did. he sent her to the same labs for x-rays, etc. as he did with me.

most people seem to be happy with medicare.

[frazzled]

7. Whoa, it is highly unusual to do bypass surgery on a 93-year-old

But I suppose if he wanted it ...

My 94-year-old mother in law was also generously paid for by Medicare in the several hospitalizations she had near the end of life. Actually, we felt they were doing too many tests and keeping her too long (we wanted to get her back to her nursing home, where she would be more comfortable and get more loving attention). Why would you do an EKG on a woman who had a DNR on her heart condition? In retrospect, I think it was part of this "waste" we are talking about. I hate to be blunt about it, but that was the case.

[DesertFlower]

15. i have to agree, but if they're denied

the procedures, the family might yell "death panels".

my mom had dementia and lived in a small group home. she kept saying she wanted to die. i never said "don't say that". instead i said "i understand". when she was taken to the hospital her blood pressure was dangerously low. the doctor called and said they were going to move her to intensive care. i told her not to. i said "just keep her comfortable". the doc said "she's comfortable, we're giving her fluids and she's sleeping". a few hours later she passed peacefully in her sleep.

[DesertFlower]

16. self delete. dupe

[obxhead]

5. Yesterday I purged my FB acct of all my fundie friends.

I can't handle there drivel anymore. It has made my FB experience much better already.

[DesertFlower]

9. the right wing ones

who are my friends know better than to argue with me.

this is a friend of a friend. the friend is a democrat but has some rw friends.

[Quantess]

6. How did that happen?

I'm assuming your mutual friend posted something. Then you and the RW woman both replied, and it became a discussion between the two of you. Is that right?

[DesertFlower]

10. exactly. nt

[KonaKane]

8. Harry Reid recently suggested supplying Teabaggers with dictionaries

so they can look up "socialism" because from their rhetoric, they are clearly clueless about what it really means.

I think he was onto something.

[DesertFlower]

11. good idea. nt

[Darth_Kitten]

28. I tell that to a lot of people......

look the word up in the dictionary. :rofl:

[TexasObserver]

12. Fool me once ... shame on ... you

You can't get fooled again.

The answer to all facebook issues is STOP ARGUING WITH WINGERS ON FACEBOOK!

[DesertFlower]

17. you're right, but i can't stop

myself when i see stupid things posted.

[Elwood P Dowd]

13. We've been a socialist country since the beginning.

Our US Post Office is socialist.

Our military is socialist.

Our highway system is socialist.

Our education system is socialist.

Our police and fire departments are socialist.

Social Security and Medicare are socialist.

And, that's just a small sample. Every advanced democracy in the world practices socialism. If she doesn't like socialism, tell her to move to Somalia.

[DesertFlower]

18. that's a good one.

when i first joined facebook, i discovered my neighbor was on. i requested him as a friend. when i saw his profile he said he was somewhat to the right of attila the hun. i was shocked. i've known him and his wife for 6 years. they have a lot of parties and we were always invited. every time his wife and i started talking, we couldn't stop. anyway during all those years i had no idea about their political views and they knew nothing of mine.

well it started with some small digs on his part and then it got really nasty. he said "i hate you liberals who are ruining this country. why don't you move to russia?". well at that point i deleted him as a friend. i sent him a PM telling him that it would be better for both of us. things got even worse. so what does he do? he requests my friend who is a republican (we've been friends for 20 years). he starts posting nasty stuff about me on her wall knowing that i'd see them. so i deleted her as a friend. told her we'd stay in touch with e-mails and phone calls the same way as it was before facebook. anyway, one of her friends saw my posts and requested me as a friend. this is the friend whose rw friend i've been arguing with.

life is strange.

[Elwood P Dowd]

19. Without socialism, the USA would have never survived.

There are these things called The Commons, Community, Social Safety Nets, etc.. Without them, you have anarchy, feudalism, civil war, and today, countries like.......Somalia!

[olegramps]

29. I don't have any friends who are Republican; only acquaintances.

I don't comprehend how a person who would vote for McCain and his nitwit running mate, Sara Palin, could be my true friend. It is just too much of a fundamental and deadly serious issue to be disregarded. I can tolerate them to the extent that we may be required to be mutually cooperative, but that is the extent of it. It has been my experiance that Republicans tend to be rather nasty bastards at best who are basically racists, homophobic believers in male superiority and uncompassionate self centered slobs. They are usually the egotistical asses and the mouthy ones at mixed gathering spouting off pure unadulterated bull shit.

[DesertFlower]

31. i understand what you're saying. my

republican friend has been my friend for almost 21 years. we rarely discuss politics although we did during the last primary and election. things did get heated.

as far as male superiority, my friend is a lesbian and she is not nasty. she's always been there for me when i needed her. when i met her and her SO, we immediately liked each other. i had no idea what her political views were. i was quite surprised when i found out.

[Toucano]

20. "...she doesn't want to live in a socialist country..."

Tell her, she can suck it up or, "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out."

Elections have consequences and we won. Health care reform was a key issue in Obama's victory.

Done and done!

[TransitJohn]

21. ......

[Sherman A1]

23. +1

[SaintD]

22. Facebook makes me feel smarter...

I get the frustration. I lot of the people I grew up with seem to have little intellectual curiosity. The degree of under informed posts I see on a daily basis is a little hard to take. I choose to ignore it. I guess that outs me as a non-activist type. The real truth is, I know that I am not about to change the views of "Billy Born Again". My arguing with him is a complete waste of my time and energy. People like that should be doomed to a world where everyone they know agrees with everything they say. Any thinking person with a decent IQ would identify that as a pure living hell. So, in my mind, that is a fitting punishment. And in fact, a passive aggressive way to get back at them.

[Sherman A1]

24. Agreed

I use the hide feature to keep my blood pressure in check with these "charming" folks.

Most of the time, it just ain't worth the effort.

[stuntcat]

27. oh gosh yes it does

it's almost been TOO much information about what hopeless selfish jerks a lot of people are.

[Rage Inc.]

25. There's no such thing as a FOAF!

"They" are the ones who propagate urban legends!

[sinkingfeeling]

26. Have her sign that pledge that was posted here this week. The one where she swears she will never

accept any type of government assistance like Social Security, Medicare, unemployment, etc. and never use any of the public (i.e., socialist) parks, roads, fire or police departments, education, etc.

[Tailormyst]

30. Why engage them at all?

Seriously, save your sanity and block the friend of a friend.