Michael Collins Reports from the WikiLeaks Press Conference, DC - "Collateral Murder"

[autorank]

Report Direct from the WikiLeaks Press Conference

By Michael Collins

(April 5, Washington, DC) Julian Assange and Wikileaks kept their promise of February 20 by releasing a video tape that shows civilians and reporter deaths from an attack by United States forces. The tape was presented at a 9:00 am press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.

Before the conference began, Assange described this as a "very rich story." He opened with a brief statement and then showed the video tape. The edited and unedited versions of the tape are available here. WikiLeaks received the tape through unspecified channels. Assange did say that the leak to his organization "sends a message that there are some people in the US military who don't like what's going on."

The video captures an incident on July 12, 2007 in a Baghdad suburb. This event has been a matter of controversy since a Reuter's photo journalist, Namir Noor-Eldeen, and his assistant, Saeed Chmagh, were both killed in the incident.

More: The Agonist DailyCensored.Com

[EFerrari]

1. Thanks Mike.

:kick:

[autorank]

3. Great press conference

It was very professional, blockbuster material, and they ran on time.

Well attended too. Reuters is heavily involved in this. They're going to do something with it and
their local bureau helped WikiLeaks in Baghdad.

Also, Julian Assange announced that WikiLeaks has teamed up with Icelandic media. The Icelanders
helped with the reporting form Baghdad.

[EFerrari]

9. Iirc, we've been holding more than one Reuters employee and for years.

Maybe at Bagram and at Gitmo? I'm so upset, my memory isn't working. :grr:

[chill_wind]

50. Ibrahim Jassam, Reuters, is one still being held

This was still as of December 2009:

Ibrahim Jassam, freelance

Imprisoned: September 2, 2008

Jassam, a freelance photographer working for Reuters, was detained by U.S. and Iraqi forces during a raid on his home in Mahmoodiya, south of Baghdad, Reuters reported. At the time of the arrest, a U.S. military spokesman told CPJ that the journalist was deemed “a threat to the security of Iraq and coalition forces.”

In November 2008, the Iraqi Central Criminal Court ruled that there was no evidence to hold Jassam and ordered the U.S. military to release him, Reuters reported. U.S. military authorities rejected the court order, saying that he “continued to pose a serious threat to the security and stability of Iraq.”

The military has disclosed no evidence against Jassam, and he has never been charged with a crime.

U.S. troops have detained dozens of journalists—mostly Iraqis—since the war in Iraq began in March 2003, CPJ research found. In at least 13 cases, journalists were held for prolonged periods without charge or due process. In all other cases, the journalists were freed without charges ever being substantiated.

2009 prison census
136 journalists jailed worldwide

As of December 1, 2009 | » Read the accompanying report: "FREELANCERS UNDER FIRE"

http://www.cpj.org/imprisoned/2009.php#summaries

[Me.]

2. Wow

[autorank]

5. How about that tape?!

Takes a lot to get me up at 6 am!:evilgrin:

[Me.]

25. The Beauty Of Technology

Nothing can stay hidden any more.

[Soylent Brice]

4. K&R

[EFerrari]

6. I don't have the time stamp but at one point after the killings

someone says, we engaged BECAUSE there was an RPG. And it sounded like code to me, i.e., this is our story.

I didn't see one.

[autorank]

13. That's a fine point you picked up on

Julian Assange, WikiLeaks spokesman/editor, said that there may have been a RPG but that those are not uncommon in Baghdad due to the civil strive. Uzi's are legal in Baghdad, so they're not uncommon. The key point is that the military reported an attack, a fire fight. There was none. Having said that, we need to hear what the Pentagon says. Pretty chilling stuff, though. What the heck are we doing there?

[EFerrari]

14. Still digging, I think.

I'll see if I can get that time stamp. It's so sad, Mike, to think that our guys have been at this uselessness so long that they know how to cover their tracks when they get it wrong. What a horrible set up for everyone. :(

[glitch]

29. What the heck are we doing?

full stop. Flailing, apparently. In every area. K & R, thanks for reporting this.

[truedelphi]

60. I took it that the attack was prior to the

Incident. And who knows, it might have been a half mile away or even further. Then again, maybe there was no prior incident, and our armed services personnel just felt like kicking butt.

Our household just watched "Baghdad Heavy Metal" (or was it "Heavy Metal Baghdad") An excellent documentary about the plight of the only heavy metal bank in Baghdad. It was so sad to see how awful the situation was there and how badly things deteriorated from year to year.

Great film to watch if you want to hear some decent heavy metal, or to find out what war looks like to those who are on the ground living it 24/7. The film also follows the band after they finally move to Syria, where they end up destitute.

[TorchTheWitch]

68. There was an incident involving insurgents previously - watch the full length video

Wikileaks put out the full length (39:14) video uncut with the transcript of what was being said on YouTube here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9sxRfU-ik
There is also a link at the Wikileaks website that takes you where you can watch the full length version but the screen size is much smaller than at YouTube.


MUCH more can be understood by watching the full length video.

There was an incident involving insurgents that took place prior to when the Apache helicopter begins which was the reason for it being sent out... to search the area for the insurgents involved in that incident. The Apache is looking for insurgents with an RPG and AK-47's. Two to three hundred meters southwest of where the incident of the shooting of the journalists and other people took place was where this initial incident took place. So, the Apache spots the journalists and others casually walking down the middle of the street carrying cameras and mistake them for the insurgents they're looking for. Instead of zooming in on the people they suspect are carrying weapons to get a better look at what they're carrying, they immediately assume they ARE weapons and these are the insurgents they were sent out to look for.

As the short version of the video shows there were two separate firing incidents on what was thought to be the insurgents they were sent out to search for. But in the long version, it shows what happened next...

At about 30:34 in the full version: Apache is circling around the large courtyard area where all the ground force is located dealing with the shooting incidents of the journalists and others.

The Apache is notified that small arms fire is heard back at the area where the initial insurgent incident took place which again, is two to three hundred meters to the southwest of where they found and shot of the journalists and others. It even involved the same building where the initial incident took place and was the reason the Apache was sent out to look in the area for insurgents...

Roger, I can ah hear small arms fire from your engagement area at two zero zero zero ah about three hundred
meters from that objective. Over.

This is Crazyhorse; from what I understand small arms fire at two zero zero zero degrees about two hundred meters.

Just to the southwest.

Yup.

Right about where we engaged.
(meaning the initial firing incident that had the Apache out looking for insurgents that led to the killing of the journalists and others two to three hundred meters away)

Yeah, one of them with that RPG or whatever.

(Apache camera zooms in on two guys on the street one of which is wearing some sort of chest protection covering and carrying what appears to be a weapon, the other guy the camera follows appears to be carrying an RPG - note that THIS time they zoom in on the people to better identify what it is they are carrying as they did not bother to do when they mistook the journalists and others as the insurgents they were looking for)

He's got a weapon. Got an RK... AK-47.

Hotel Two-Six; Crazyhorse One-Eight.

Gonna lose him.
(as man steps off curb and walks in another direction presumably into the building)

Crazyhorse One-Eight this is Hotel Two-Six. Over.

Roger. Have another individual with a weapon.

Dammit, they're in the same building.
(same building where initial insurgent firing incident took place that led to the killing of the journalists and others 2-3 hundred meters away)

Hey, roger that. Just make sure that ah you're firing from east to west. Over.

Just went in the building.

Crazyhorse Three and Four will be on their way.

The individual walked into the building previously past grid.

So there's at least six individuals in that building with weapons.

We can put a missile in it.

If you'd like ah Crazyhorse One-Eight could put a missile in that building.

It's a triangle building. Appears to be ah abandoned.

Yeah, looks to be under construction, abandoned.

Appears to be abandoned, under construction. Uh, like I said, six individuals walked in there from our previous engagement.
(meaning the previous engagement that took place at that site - not the incident with the journalists and others two to three hundred meters away)

Crazyhorse One-Eight; this is Bushmaster Six Romeo. If you've PID'd the individuals in the building with weapons, go ahead and engage the building. Over.

Crazyhorse One-Eight; will be coming up north to south engaging with hellfire.

All right, I'm going to manual.

All right, we've been cleared to engage with... This is Bushmaster Six Romeo. Crazyhorse is going to be engaging north to south with hellfire missiles. Over.

This is Hotel Two-Six; Roger.

They then proceed to get into position and send 3 missiles at separate times into the building and blow it up.

Note that this time they are much more careful about identifying the individuals and what they are carrying including zooming in on them for a closer look and very careful about identifying the building as being abandoned/under construction. Also note that THIS time there is absolutely NO chattering and chuckling about "fucking pricks" and other types of crap talk about the individuals even though THIS time they know these people ARE the insurgents they were sent out to look for. In other words, at some point after shooting up the journalists and the others previously two to three hundred meters away they realized they fucked up big time with that.

[truedelphi]

70. Thank you for the update. I'll try and watch the whole 39 minute version

Tomorrow when more awake.

This incident confirms exactly what the Baghdad heavy metal band members keep telling the American journalists who are there trying to film them in 2006 and 2007. You cannot be out of your house for any reason without worrying about impending doom. If something happens even one neighborhood away, and you are the group of folks out and about, you will considered a possible suspect - and possible suspects are shot and killed (Vaporized from the looks of some of the footage.)

I remember way back in Spring of 2006 hearing that the British troops in Iraq were polled about what they considered to be the most hazardous aspect of duty in Iraq. And the British troops answered that what was the scariest part of an Iraqi tour was having to go through an American checkpoint.

Not the insurgents. Not some crazed suicide bomber. They were most afraid of the Americans troops!

And they were our allies!

[autorank]

82. This is really important analysis

This article was a report on the press conference. I'm working on a follow up that's more detailed. Of real interest, the first shooting can be seen in the context of the larger effort in Iraq at the time, "the surge." The premium there was more targeted killing of 'insurgents' as opposed to previous efforts which were less discriminate. But even in that context, the overall error, being there in the first place, accounts for this. Taking that point of view, those who created the lies taking us to war and those who perpetuated it are the responsible parties. It's really not about the pilots and crew, trash talk or not. It's about the first cause, Bush-Cheney-Rice-Powell.


Here's an account that's of interest, first party

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Collateral-Murder-Wikilea-by-Josh-Stieber-100409-170.html

[shedevil69taz]

62. If there was indeed an RPG

being carried by someone in civilian clothing under the ROE at the time that makes him a legitimate target. Civilians anywhere in Iraq are not authorized to legally posses such weapons, and because of thier highly destructive nature anyone dressed in civilian clothing carrying one doesn't even have to raise it to thier shoulder before we can engage.

Now I couldn't tell WHAT it was he was carrying by the videotape. Some say it was a camera with a long lens, my superiors will claim yes infact it was an RPG.

I won't buy it though, he was walking down the middle of a street in broad daylight in slacks and a collared shirt. Its not like they couldn't have known an Apache was in the area, they're kind of hard to hide during the day, plus they had to have known there was a platoon of US infantry in the immediate area.

If I know it is illegal for a person dressed as civilian to be carrying an RPG, and forces immediately around me are authorized to shoot me, I definitly wouldn't be walking down the middle of a street.

I would love to shake the hand of my fellow service member who leaked this video, and congradulate them for doing the right thing.

[JDPriestly]

63. The initial shooting could be justified by the failure of the reporter

to wear anything identifying him as press. He could have carried his camera over his shoulder without the bag, for example. That might have made it easier for the soldiers to identify the camera for what it was.

But there is no excuse for shooting the unarmed man writhing on the ground, and no excuse for laughing when the tank ran over the body on the ground. Absolutely no excuse. That was bloodthirsty behavior.

What causes me to have a little doubt about the excuses that our soldiers mistook cameras for weapons is the fact that they did not try to take the seriously wounded man writhing on the ground as a prisoner for interrogation. As was pointed out on Dylan Ratigan's program yesterday, it would seem to me that man could have been a source of valuable intelligence.

Placing the scene in the historical context of the events of Iraq in 2007, the intelligence that man might have provided had he really been some sort of insurgent or terrorist could have saved American lives. It was as if our soldiers got so caught up in the video game aspect of their mission that they forgot bigger, strategic goals like collecting intelligence.

The officers involved in this mission should have been reprimanded very severely for failing to remain professional and failing to put intelligence gathering ahead of their thirst for blood and vengeance.

The initial shooting may, just barely, be explained by the fog of war argument (with the caveat that we should not have been in Iraq or in that war in the first place), but subsequent events were simply inhumanly cruel. I hope those who took part in the events, those who did the shooting and supervised the shooting, review this video and think about it from their vantage point as civilians. The behavior was inexcusable.

[shedevil69taz]

64. It is in no way justifiable

by the "failure" of the reporter. Its the responsiblity of the shooters to identify beyond a reasonable doubt that group of individuals posed an immediate threat to anyone else in the area. It didn't look to me like they were engaged in anyway in any threatening activity.

[TorchTheWitch]

79. Exactly - they're supposed to positively ID

and they didn't even try to. They watched the guys they were so sure had weapons for a significant period of time and made no attempt to zoom in for a closer look at what it was they were carrying. They saw Namir peek around the building with the tip of his camera lens visible and immediately declare it to be an RPG... when they just watched him and the others casually strolling down the middle of the street carrying no such thing (what, it just materialized mysteriously out of his back pocket???).

[EFerrari]

66. Aren't RPGs much bigger than cameras?

I mean, much bigger? Is this in any way accurate? Because you don't see anyone carrying one of these in the video.



ETA: Pardon my bad manners. Welcome to DU, shedevil. :hi:

[TorchTheWitch]

71. yup, that's them

The guy in the foreground has one that's armed (the olive green diamond shaped thing stuck in the muzzle is the actual grenade that the weapon shoots). The cameras of the journalists are about a 1/3 of the length of an RPG launcher and much shorter if it was armed. Actually, maybe even a 1/4 of the length. In any case, these guys know what various weapons look like and had they taken a proper look at the cameras being carried while the group was casually strolling down the street (which they had plenty of time to do) they couldn't possibly mistake it for any kind of weapon much less a great big old RPG.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

45. Here's the transcript for reference.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8092575

[EFerrari]

46. Thank you, Ommm.

:hi:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

57. My pleasure!

:hi:

[EFerrari]

67. This is the part I was talking about:

15:28 Yeah Two-Six. One-Eight I just also wanted to make sure you knew that we had a guy with an RPG cropping round the corner getting ready to fire on your location.
15:36 That's why we ah, requested permission to engage.
15:40 Ok, roger that. Tango mike.
15:46 Hotel Two-Six; do you understand me, over?

[TorchTheWitch]

72. that was the Nadir with his camera

So, yeah, that confirms it was the camera lens they mistook for an unarmed RPG launcher.

[EFerrari]

75. Well, this bit shows three of them getting a story straight. n/t

[TorchTheWitch]

80. sure looks that way... except they lied there again

because they requested permission to shoot long before they ever imagined they saw anyone with an RPG...

01:43 Hotel Two-Six; Crazy Horse One-Eight. Have five to six individuals with AK47s . Request permission to engage .
http://www.collateralmurder.com/en/transcript.html

And they lied here yet again claiming they saw "five to six individuals with AK47s" when they just seconds before confirmed they saw one or two (and it was Namir and Saeed they were watching when they told each other they were weapons (but they weren't - they were cameras).

They lied all over the map and tried to cover their asses later not realizing what it was they had already said. The biggest whopper was confirming the wounded guy (Saeed as it turned out who we know had no weapon of any kind) was unarmed yet while watching this unarmed wounded guy being helped by other unarmed folks they claimed they were picking up non-existent weapons in order to get permission to shoot them. That was just blatant over-the-top sicko.

[Subdivisions]

7. Thanks for being there, Mike. n/t

[autorank]

52. Welcome. It was very well presented, very professional

Assange handled the press well during the Q & A. We'll see if they do anything with it or
if any of the so called left press picks it up. Wired has covered it but that's all for
now.

[blm]

8. Big KandR.....

Thanks for all you do.

[cal04]

10. thank you autorank

for all your posts
:hi: :kick:

[autorank]

11. You are MOST welcome cal04!

:hi:

[bleever]

12. K&R.

The rightwing pushback on this release will be interesting to watch.

Thank you for your report, sir.

:patriot:

[autorank]

15. I'm hearing about that

What's to push back. It's a tape. It's been analyzed so lets see what the Pentagon says.

The journalists were not bothered by the helicopters. Assange pointed out that they were both highly
seasoned veterans of that city and the war coverage. So why didn't they head for cover. It's an
ugly process Bush-Cheney began. They're to blame!

[Subdivisions]

17. You're exactly right, Mike. Those men in the video were not at all

concerned that an Apache helicopter was flying nearby. They had no weapons shouldered. They were not on offense or defense. They were just working.

[autorank]

27. It's a sad state

The 22 year old photo journalist can be seen being run over by an armored personnel carrier, at one
point. When you put the military in an unbelievably hostile situation and dehumanize the Iraqis, as
Bush-Cheney did, then this stuff happens. This is just the most condensed version we've seen. Hope
it opens some eyes.

[bhikkhu]

55. You can judge the distance of the helicopter

by the time between the sound and the impact of the firing, and by the time it takes them to rotate into position. I'd guess they're about a half-mile off.

[bleever]

18. And here comes some of that pushback:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8092618

They had it comin'.

[autorank]

76. The evidence can't be pushed back

Diversion and flack can only work so long.

5,247,879 views on YouTube. Two days ago it was 2.1 million. People are seeing for themselves.

They can push but we'll bend not break. I don't know the final resolution on the key points of
rules of engagement and identification requirements.

I do know that saying mission accomplished in 2003 and having to patrol Baghdad by Apache helicopter
in 2007, having to shoot those people is a total failure and that includes the complicit media that
failed to make this one fact clear.

Jail for Bush and Cheney.

[Brickbat]

16. Jesus fucking wept.

My heart aches for the children in the van. For the men who were shot and the families they left. And frankly, for the soldiers who are twisted into dehumanizing others so thoroughly.

[autorank]

20. I agree with you 100%

It was just appalling to sit through the tape. There were no histrionics on WikiLeaks part and
it was all very professional but the horror, no doubt repeated many times, was palpable.

Bush-Cheney and their invasion did damage to this country and the military that no foreign enemy could even dream about. They belong on trial and hopefully in jail.

But Jesus would weep, that's for sure.

[autorank]

19. IndiaTimes linkedk the story...THANKS!

http://1click.indiatimes.com/article/03QY0xTdFxfq2?q=Baghdad

[Uncle Joe]

21. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, autorank.

[autorank]

36. Thanks Uncle Joe !!!!!!!!!

Quite a story, quite a time to be alive...

[Mnemosyne]

22. Needs more K and R! Strong story Mike, and chillingly much too common!

:hi:

[autorank]

26. Isn't that something!

Thanks! The WikiLinks editor, Julian Assange, is a real piece of work. Hyper intelligent and
deliberate too. One meme out there was, why is WikiLinks waiting? Huh, how come...blablabla.
A MSMer asked that and his answer was perfect: We needed time to analyze the tape and confirm
various parts of the story. You could hear a pin drop;) But that's how they did it. The
setting was excellent. The National Press Club is one of the few remaining parts of DC that's
not overcome with security and "check points." Very cool morning, even if I had to get up at
6 am!

[DemReadingDU]

56. Thank you for the article

and getting up at 6.

The video is sickening to watch, but shows what happens in war, fought like a video game.

[puebloknot]

23. K&R Thanks, Mike, for your courage and hard work in bringing truth ...

... to the many -- as many as you can in the face of mainstream "journalistic" reporting.

This is so very disturbing. Our troops in that film were playing around with helicopters and deadly weaponry in a way that seems not very removed from the way they would behave with an ordinary video game. And there's the rub. They somehow don't connect to the human lives they are destroying. They don't see them as valuable humans.

This kind of behavior is very much in line with the kinds of crimes that were exposed at Nuremberg. We have our own version of "Brownshirts," except that the technology they have at their disposal now is more deadly to powers of ten.

"Good shoot'n!" I'm the daughter of a WWII soldier, and I never heard the congratulatory tone in the voices of my father and his compatriots that we hear in this video. These strutting little pricks need to be court-martialed and jailed (in the best of all possible worlds, of course -- which this decidedly is not).

Most of all, there is a need to hold accountable the PTB at the top who design and launch wars, and make use of hapless and immoral young men and women to carry out their plans. It is one thing to be a young person sent to war, traumatized, and forced to carry out orders that wound the soul. It is another to engage in such distinct pleasure as is heard in the voices of the men who carried out this murderous, *soulless* rampage.

[autorank]

24. THank you!

Before the war a majority of BOTH Republicans and Democrats opposed an invasion absent the finding
that Iraq had WMD. The liar and cooperators who allowed the WMD lie to stand are directly responsible
for this event. They, the leaders, are the criminals. And they stole their way to power too. Hard
times for decent people, that's for sure.

:hi:

[Agony]

32. Agreed, however this is also a time when the courage of those like Camilo Mejía needs recognition.

***
"I was a coward not for leaving the war but for being part of it in the first place." So concluded Sgt. Camilo Mejia as he left military prison on February 15, 2005. Camilo had been serving a one year prison term after being convicted of desertion last May 2004.
***

Michael, Thanks for what you do and for taking the time to write and inform.

[scarletwoman]

28. Thank you for bringing this report. Rec'd of course.

I'm not out of outrage, but I am out of words to describe it just now.

:cry:
sw

[autorank]

30. The real "evil doers" are Bush-Cheney, Murdoch & the NYT

They brought us the lies then the war. And now, they're fat and sassy in their repose as the
Iraqis and the troops deal with the mess.

[Political Heretic]

31. Any MSM covering this? Send to Rachel, Keith?

[WillyT]

33. Big K & R !!!

:kick:

[autorank]

34. Just k*r'ed you thread

Time for Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!

[leftstreet]

35. K&R

[TexasObserver]

37. This proves the Bush administration and Petreaus weren't riding herd.

The job of the president and his top generals is to make sure the troops understand and carry out their orders. When troops engage in combat excess, the top brass are ALWAYS accountable.

If we had the kind of government we should have, this would be fully and openly investigated by congress.

[msedano]

38. sadly, there's probably the "belief" defense

Cops use it all the time when they dust innocent "suspects." The cop believed at the time in the heat of the moment, that genuine danger existed, and in that instant of a split second moment, fired 26 shots, reloaded twice, striking the unarmed civilian 3 times. Verdict: not guilty.

There's one way and only one way to end this type of legalized murder: bring the troops home right now and save these US soldiers from their blood lust.

This now is Obama's war and all the KIA are Obama's trophies. Is he leader enough to want to stop killing us and them? If he wants soldiers to live, he'll stop the war immediately.



recommended.

mvs

[autorank]

54. Who is behind the "belief"

I agree, there's a basis for these actions. Those who engineered the invasion and those who
are in command, see this stuff, and do nothing to stop it are the real perps. It is Obama's
war and it's time, has been time, bring them all home now.

[amborin]

39. K&R

[flyarm]

40. Thank you Michael..my heart bleeds !! Between this and our special opps killing and removing the

bullets from the dead Innocent women in Afgan..i just have to cry and my heart aches so much it feels like it is bleeding..

WTF has become of our once proud nation..

During Vietnam the cover up of My Lai when finally exposed this nation stood in shame and shock and anger..

Now i see excuses and apathy..and propaganda by civilians to the crimes our nation is committing..and I just don't understand anymore..who are we???????

Thank god there are still some Americans willing to stand up for truth and to stand up to the damn criminals..and expose them for who and what they are.

Being at war is no excuse for criminal actions..none at all.

We are either Humans ..or we are animals..Humans do not cover up crimes like this ..they expose the criminals and hold them accountable.

So far i have seen none of the criminals held accountable..and that disgusts me.

But I Stand proudly to thank the truth tellers..

Thank you Michael, Thank all DU'ers who stand up to intimidation and the propagandist's ..( and we all know who they are!) and tell the truth and stand for truth. And thank everyone who fights for the accountability of the criminals.

And Thank you WikiLeaks..and those that brought this information and tapes forward...it was brave, it was the right thing to do .. and it was for truth.

We are nothing without truth!

It is the only thing that makes us human.

fly

[autorank]

41. "There is nothing without truth"

I was simply objective in describing what I saw and the analysis. The glaring truth is that
the men were unarmed. "Light 'em up." What a statement about the command in Iraq. They saw
this and just swept it under the rug.

The awful truth about Iraq will come when we're mostly gone and the horror of what's been done
to that nation is documented. We'll see much of it and the video gamers who celebrate this
kind of inhumanity will keep playing their games, albeit impeded by an occasional moment of shame.

[flyarm]

42. No You weren't- " simply objective in describing what I saw and the analysis."

You cared enough about truth to be there..

You cared enough about human life to be there.

You cared enough about justice to be there.

You cared enough to bring other Americans the story..those that could not be there , but who also care about truth , human life and Justice.

And I thank you for that.

fly

[autorank]

73. Thank you!

We can still chose where to go and you're right, I deliberately chose to go there at that time to write this story. Have a few more contributions to make on this as well. I'll let you know. Open source research stuff. Much appreciated!!!

[AuntPatsy]

58. I could think of nothing more to add after reading your response...Peace...

[EFerrari]

43. Kick

[Rex]

44. War crimes, you would think we would be out with it all after torture photos

guess the military just can't admit to failure...like that is new.

[EFerrari]

47. .

[Hannah Bell]

48. "the van was driven by the father of two taking his children to tutoring."

that was one question i had answered.

when i went to your site, there were over 600 guests online. getting a lot of viewership.

[autorank]

51. It's a sad story

Imagine Apache helicopters circling your city firing at people? What does that have to do
with bringing "democracy" to Iraq?

[SpiralHawk]

49. "move along. nothing to see here." - Republicons

sheesh - their silence is sooo ugly

[Mari333]

53. seems to me many dems want to ignore it, too...

[flyarm]

65. + 1 million!!

[Stinky The Clown]

59. Keep it coming, Mike, cuz this turd is swirling around the edge of the Memory Hole .....

.... just about ready to go down it.

[truedelphi]

61. K & R.

Wish I could rec it a dozen or more times. Thanks, Autorank.

[autorank]

74. Thanks truedelphi! n/t

[autorank]

69. kick

:kick:

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77. Reminder

Link
Bush Accused of Tyranny and Murder at Impeachment Hearing by Michael Collins, July 25, 2008
The People, the Press, and the Case for Impeachment Michael Collins, July 29, 2008
The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder: An Interview with Vincent Bugliosi - Part 1 Michael Collins, Aug. 8, 2008
Bush, Manson, and the Media Blackout: An Interview with Vincent Bugliosi - Part 2 Michael Collins, Aug. 12, 2008
White Paper Justifying Iraq War Written Three Months Before Intel Report Arrived Michael Collins, Aug. 25, 2008
The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder by Vincent Bugliosi. A Review by Michael Collins
Murder Trumps Torture Says Bugliosi Michael Collins, Apr. 9, 2009

[Quantess]

78. Looks like a good collection of links, there.

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81. thanks!

It was great interviewing Bugliosi. Quite a guy. Relentless!

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83. Kick n/t