How to Defeat a Pit Bull with Your Bare Hands

[MrCoffee]

Fact: Any breed of dog is capable of attacking a human. But 56 percent of all fatal dog attacks in the United States in the past five years were committed by pit bulls, according to a report released last week by the organization DogsBite.org. "During the 1980s and 1990s, fatal dog attacks averaged 17 per year. The death-by-dog-bite rate now is nearly double this amount at over 30 per year and largely due to pit bulls," the group says. The tips below can be used against any breed of dog that happens to attack, up to and including the pit bull. (And to those who claim that humans' anxiety about pit bull attacks is fostering an environment where pit bulls are subliminally encouraged to attack: I will not discuss matters of human culpability and mind-reading pit bulls because YOU ARE INSANE.)

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/how-to-defeat-a-pit-bull-with-your-bare-hands/Content?oid=3708968

1. Avoid Conflict
2. Stand on a Car
3. Cover Your Face and Play Dead
4. Mace the Fucker
5. Bust Its Head, Break Its Knees, or Choke It
6. Gouge Its Eyes Out

[flvegan]

1. Hold the hell on...

:popcorn:

Okay...go!

[Jamastiene]

4. Save some veggiebutter for me.

:popcorn:

[ET Awful]

18. The best way to defeat mine with your bare hands is to say HI and rub his ears.

If you rub his belly, he's your friend for life.

Of course, all of this is assuming you can wake him up for a long enough time to acknowledge your presence (he's pretty lazy).

Hell, the most dangerous thing from my dog is his gas . . . now THAT might be deadly.

[dionysus]

87. with proper owners, the risk factor of those dogs goes way, wayyyyyy down.

[jmowreader]

150. But not all those dogs HAVE "proper owners"

Quite a few people want those dogs for one very specific reason: an improperly bred, improperly trained pit bull is a bomb waiting to explode.

[dionysus]

154. i agree completely. a pit bull owned by a thug is extremely dangerous.

[jmowreader]

243. And of course, you know...

I saw a guy wearing a t-shirt. The design on the t-shirt had dollar signs, gold, diamonds, a pit bull, cognac, cigars, a pimp and two hos, a donk, a Harley...you know, everything the well-outfitted playa needs. (Laugh hard: a white guy was wearing this.) The shirt looked like it was airbrushed rather than printed (there are several places in Fayettenam that airbrush t-shirts), so it may have been a one-off deal. I would assume whoever had that t-shirt, and the artist who created it, were not thinking of Petey from the Our Gang World War II propaganda films when they came up with this.

[dionysus]

244. Fayettenam? that's funny. Good friend of mine was stationed at Bragg. he couldn't stand the town!

[goclark]

185. I avoided two by jumping on top of a parked car

I was walking down the street with my friend.

All of a sudden two pit bulls jumped their fence and landed on a trash can that their owner had happily provided (it helped them to land and attach better IMO)

My friend pulled me real fast and he lifted me up on a near by car.

He jumped on the car too.

The bulls were still trying to get to us so my friend helped me jump on the roof of the car.

By that time someone driving down the street with a small truck , pulled over and blocked the bulls in so we could get down.

I love dogs but after that experience ~

[Mimosa]

232. That happened to DH and me in Louisiana...

But the dogs were Rottwelilers. And there were no parked cars to jump on! DH got bitten on the leg trying to protect me.

Then a man came around the corner in a pickup truck. It was the owner. We went home, called the ASPCA on him the next day. He was a Cajun who was breeding rottweilers next to an elementary school, of all things.

[goclark]

242. Wow! In our case, one of the neighbors saw what happened

to us and they said this was not the first time.

I hope the neighbor called again.

We don't walk that way anymore.

[easttexaslefty]

285. yep

Bingo!!!

[protocol rv]

206. There's a better way

Find out where it lives, and feed it some meat. It's like an offering being made to the Gods.

[johnaries]

92. I've found that you start with the ears, and then rub that "special spot"

right at the base of the ears. It's easy to find. For one thing, it's a noticeable depression. For another thing, just look in the dog's eyes - you will see a look changing from "I don't trust you!" to "Oh, yeah, that's the spot..... please, don't ever stop" and you will also notice that he is pressing his head into you hand so that you can get into that "spot" easier.

The biggest problem I've found with people interacting with dogs is that dogs "talk" to you with their whole body language. They are always trying to tell you something. Most people just don't pay attention.

[ET Awful]

97. There's also a special spot on a lot of dogs on their upper thigh near the tail.

Obviously not something you can reach on an aggressive dog, but on a dog that you've already succeeded in relaxing, it works wonders.

Hell, Frankie will almost collapse with just a minor scratching there :). Then he starts rolling around with a big old grin on his face :).

Looks real dangerous doesn't he?



:P

[mzteris]

101. i LOVE that pic!

It made me laugh for the first time in ages...

What a cutie!

[flvegan]

107. What a great pic!

[baldguy]

126. Vicious beast!

[eyeofdelphi]

130. He is so adorable!

I wish i could pet him from here. We used to have a rotweiller/pitbull mix, Voodoo. He was the absolute sweetest dog ever. I would just go to get the mail and when i came back he would act like he hadn't seen me for 3 days. Very lovey. But i think he was part goat too. he could eat an entire book of CDs, a paperback book, and 6 pairs of underwear in 2 minutes flat.
It's all in how the dog is raised. If any dog is taught to fight and abused on a daily basis, well, you get an out of control attack dog.

[Sabriel]

137. Was that your femur?

Or a relative's?

[Kalyke]

247. Look at Cesar Milan's "Daddy."

He was a big baby, but a fantastic doggie "balancer."




(BTW, he died in February. :cry: http://www.cesarsway.com/news/daddy-memoriam )

[ET Awful]

248. I didn't know he died :(

He was a very cool dog.

[Kalyke]

267. I didn't know until today, either.

I was on Cesar's site to ask a question about one of my rescues and saw it.

I love Daddy.

But, 16 is a nice, long age for a doggie. He was treated well.


Junior is taking his place. You've seen him, as well, I'm sure. Here he is with "da Dawg."

[EmilyAnne]

268. Is your dog neutered? Also, do you know how he was bred?

This is just something that I am curious about.

My dog is a papillon and if you look up every possible bad quality that MIGHT be seen in a papillon, it describes her perfectly.
Both mentally and physically, she displays every single bad papillon quality that decent breeders would control for.
Unfortunately, she was bred in a now condemned puppy mill where the only motivation was to make an easy buck.
She was even used to breed a few litters until the place was shut down and I was then able to rescue the crazy thing.

I always wonder if the pit bulls who exhibit the worst of the POSSIBLE pit characteristics have the same sort of histories. Poor breeding plus the aggressiveness of being unfixed may be the real problems. All breeds come with a set of potential flaws and a reputable breeder will pay for genetic testing as well as note mental characteristics so as to remove these qualities from the next litter. So-called "backyard breeders" and puppy mills do not care about these things.

[mzteris]

103. The most dangerous thing about Pits that I've found is

pissing you off!


:rofl:

[flvegan]

118. That may be my new sig line.

I love it!

[tblue]

2. You mean this isn't a Sarah Palin thread? Well, actually,

I was attacked by a German Shepherd when I was 10. Had to go to the ER, and get stitches. He could've easily killed me and it wasn't the first time this dog had attacked a person. I am and always was a dog lover, but, really, I appreciate your post.

[Arkana]

61. I wish it had been a Sarah Palin thread too.

My answer would have been "Hold up a newspaper or any publication that wasn't 'Cosmo'."

[mzteris]

105. f'ing SCHNAUZER bit my face

when i was four. I was trying to pet the little shitzel.

[Jamastiene]

120. Schnauzers are usually not bitey.

Maybe that one was having a bad day and unfortunately, you did too. I'm sorry. :hug:

[Enthusiast]

159. But they are barky.

[Jamastiene]

170. Most definitely.

They are definitely barky. :)

[jmowreader]

151. If it was a Palin thread the title would have been different

"How to defeat a Pit Bull in Lipstick with your bare hands."

That was pretty easy too: Take your right index finger and press the "Barack Obama" button.

[Jamastiene]

3. Pet it. n/t

[johnaries]

89. Yep!

[xultar]

123. +1

[GKirk]

5. Shove your arm

down it's throat.

[Joe Chi Minh]

64. A South African farmer killed a lion that way.

[Xenotime]

210. That's so sad.

[LanternWaste]

6. 56% by one breed?

56% by one breed? Granted, I don't know any more about dogs other than how to take care of them when they're my best friend, but jeez-- that's an awfully big number to be attributed to one breed.

[Greyhound]

9. Fatal is the key word.

Nearly every year for as long as they've tracked it, the Cocker Spaniel wins the most likely to bite prize.

We have an anti-intellectual society of macho-men that get off on intimidation, so the population of this wonderfully impractical breed has exploded and most of them end up in the hands of the last people on earth that should won any dog.

[Jack Sprat]

46. Seems like an accurate depiction.

An anti-intellectual macho-man society's delite.

Like "hey, see my dog? Don't mess with me or you'll get yourself killed. Don't mess with Texas either."

[unapatriciated]

164. The biggest problem I have with Pit Bull owners in my area is letting them run off leash.

Their common statement is my dog is friendly don't worry.
The problem with that, is dogs will be dogs and you can not predict what they will do when they encounter another dog who is leashed.
What they don't realize, is a dog who is leashed may feel threatened by another dog (even if friendly) who runs up on them.
Many times we have had a pleasant walk turn into a disaster. Too many dog owners think just because their dog has never attacked it is ok to let it run free in their unfenced front yard.

[Juneboarder]

196. I don't care which breed it is...

but this example you described above about owners letting their dogs run free in their unfenced yards is absolutely my biggest pet peeve. I walk my dog through our neighborhood every day. It is partially rural, with lots of acre properties that are not fenced. I don't care how friendly a dog might be, whether it's 15 years old and just lazy or 1 year old and just wants to play... you just don't know that by looking at a dog as it's approaching you. My dog has been attacked while on leash once, and approached several times since then. It is very scary to deal with.

[unapatriciated]

245. I agree it doesn't matter what breed.

When my dog is on a leash she feels threatened when an unleashed dog is around and will get defensive it they approach our smaller dog. She is a sweetie and has no problem at the local dog park. I think that is one reason there is a smaller pen that you unleash your dog in before entering the larger dog park.

[flvegan]

38. That's because you'd have to be a total idiot to believe those stats. n/t

[uppityperson]

49. +1 nt

[LanternWaste]

51. And yet I am a total idiot...

And yet I am a total idiot...

[uppityperson]

54. Find the pit bull games..... Even vets have a difficult time correctly IDing them

Police aren't any better.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
http://www.coldsteelpits.com/coldsteelfindthepitbull.htm
http://mnp13.com/FindThePitBull/FindThePitBull.aspx
http://www.pbrc.net/poppysplace/games/AdultFindabull/findpitbull_v4.html

[Juneboarder]

198. Agreed!

I got my dog from the pound and they said she was a Lab/Pit mix... turns out she has no lab or pit in her. We now call her a 65 pound chihuahua mix :)

[Name removed]

326. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flvegan]

62. Sorry to hear that. There's a cure.

Educate yourself, heal thyself.

[baldguy]

65. Don't believe the anti-Pit Bull hype.

It's bullshit.

[DrDan]

83. yep - can't believe the facts . . . .obviously a lie

[baldguy]

122. Irrational fears based on ill-informed hype does not constitute "fact"

No matter how often propagandists repeat it. If you need to talk out of your ass, all you're doing is spewing shit all over.

Actual facts are based on study, real-life experience and knowledge.

[pipoman]

125. Wow

well said. Can I quote you?

[baldguy]

133. Some people can't help talking out their ass.

I think #3 is most applicable.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

[pipoman]

203. No, calling someone on

double standards and hypocrisy has nothing at all to do with a personal attack, see, it's calling a spade a spade...that's it..

[DrDan]

135. when the facts are against you - resort to personal insults

classy

[uppityperson]

174. Irrational fears based on ill-informed hype does not constitute "fact"

No matter how often propagandists repeat it.

Actual facts are based on study, real-life experience and knowledge.

[iris27]

76. Easy enough to do when they're really lumping about 8 different breeds together into that stat.

If the police report says it's a pit, it gets counted as a pit - even if it was incorrectly ID'd, which happens quite a lot. Take one of those tests previously posted and see how well you do...most people, even police, are pretty bad at it.

[guitar man]

144. +1,000,000

I have personally witnessed a police officer mis-identify a mutt as a "pitbull terrier" when a neaighbor's dog bit a kid. I knew the dog's history and even pointed out the dog's parents in the neighbor's yard but it fell on deaf ears, the cop wanted to write pitbull on the report and nothing was going to stop him. I wonder how many times that type of error has been repeated across the country over the years.

If this dog bit somebody, I wonder how it would be identified...by the police? By the media?

[IsItJustMe]

241. I don't know how often dogs get mis identified by police. But I can tell you what should be clear

to see.

Pit bulls are aggresive by nature. It just makes sense that aggresive dogs are more likely to attack humans, regardless of the stats.

[guitar man]

250. Yeah but

Since "pit bull" is not a defined breed, but rather a job description, how do we even determine when a "pit bull" has been aggressive.

The dog in the above photo is a boxer/border collie mix. Was it a "pit bull" at birth or is it only a pit bull if it becomes agressive and bites somebody?

See the problem?

[uppityperson]

175. Indeed, for those who know for sure, try the games at this reply...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8092540&mesg_id=8093630

[depakid]

238. Classic denialism through rationalization

Picture perfect- just like the folks who pretend global warming's "not a problem."

[johnaries]

98. No, that's bullshit. People don't know breeds. It "looked" like a

Pit Bull.

Spanky and Our Gang had a Pit Bull. They're actually very loyal, even though it's not "officially" a breed. Try Googling American Pit Bull.

I think you'll be surprised.

[sinkingfeeling]

7. That's interesting because there is no such breed called 'pit bull'.

[My Good Babushka]

16. I think it's probably clear

pit bull is short for American Pit Bull Terrier. And I don't like them around my kids. I don't like any dogs I don't know around my kids, and I think that is good advice for anyone.

[JonLP24]

96. It's actually a media catch all slang for several beeds in the Molassar family

APBT is one of them but they are actually generally smaller than other dogs identified as "pit bull" such as a Staffordshire Terrier or Bull Terrier.

[baldguy]

121. "Pit Bull" is a job description, not a breed.

[GKirk]

149. I think you mean...

Pit Boss not pit bull

[pnwmom]

75. Tell that to the Humane Societies. They all use the term and the shelters are full of them. n/t

[uppityperson]

176. "humane society" incorrectly ID's my 18 month male dog as 7 yr female dog

He'd been in the shelter for a couple weeks, they still said he was female and 7 yrs. He had a tattoo on his thigh from another shelter, we called them and got his info.

The "Humane Society" we got him from never looked to see his sex, never checked to see if he had any ID on him.

[Soylent Brice]

8. well, we've had smoking and breastfeeding...

so pitbulls hits the flawewar thread



:woohoo:

[sui generis]

10. Well considering my pit bull and my chihuahua are best friends

and he just went to Easter in the Park and played with kids, sniffed babies, and even made friends with a couple of ferrets, I suggest you change your name from Mr. Coffee to Mr. Crack.

Pit Bulls are only as bad as their owners. Any breed of human is capable of fucking up a dog.

Oh and by the way, the first rule is don't make eye contact with an aggressive dog. That really IS the first rule.

All the rest of that kung fu crap is just fear mongering crap. Most pits are as sweet and docile as can be - they were originally called the "nanny dog" in England because when socialized well they are great with kids. Even an injured pit won't snap at a human - they're not wired for it, which means you have to make them mean.

I believe 4 through 6 above should apply mostly to the owner or former owners of those dogs.

[baldguy]

66. +1000

[JuniperLea]

93. I know a pit bull and a rat terrier who are best friends...

So lovey dovey! Precious and sweet.

I go to a local dog beach almost every weekend where nearly all of the dogs are off leash... pits come up to me all the time and put their head under my hand in a sort of "I'm forcing you to pet me" deal... so sweet! Same happens with Doberman, Shepherds... chihuahuas... my little girl chihuahua is off leash too, and schmoozing with all the big dogs... chasing them too! If there were any bad dogs there, Molly would have been hurt by now... she's a pip!

Jack & Sedwick


Jack & Molly... so you can see how tiny she is...

[hootinholler]

11. Take it to the Olive Garden!

They love pasta!

-Hoot

[DBoon]

13. No they don't

They just keep hoping there is some real food hidden in it, that's all

[DBoon]

12. Some fresh cooked chicken and a stern word defeats my pitbull

without fail.

She has been properly trained and socialized with people and other dogs from an early age.

[DrDan]

14. oh boy - here comes all the anecdotal "proof" that these vicious dogs are nothing but

kind and well-mannered.

"I have one . . . and he is just a big baby . . . . would never hurt anyone . . . "

[sui generis]

17. as opposed to all the anecdotal proof that a few bad dogs

makes the whole breed bad? It really is nurture, not nature in the case of this breed.

If you don't like dogs, don't get one. It's that simple. If you have an opinion about mine, my anecdote overrides your opinion every single day of the week.

[ET Awful]

20. Or the second hand jibberish from someone who has never encountered a so-called

pit bull anywhere than in sensationalized BS headlines that ignore things like total numbers of dog ownership, etc. which are not recorded or kept.

They're the same people that in the 80's said Dobermans should all be killed, then it was German Shepherds, hell, I've even heard that Chows were the most dangerous breed at one point in time. Funny how people who typically complain about the fearmongering they get spoon fed every day will fall for the fearmongering when it comes to dogs.

[ladywnch]

43. hell almost every breed has been the victim of a breed ban in some

locale or another. I've seen Golden Retrievers, and Labs on ban lists. I worked in a Humane Society that specialized in Pits. Our manager had one who was certified therapy dog. In England, they are referred to as 'nanny dogs' since they are used to protect infants and toddlers. And since most people (professional dog trainers/handlers included) can't accurately identify a a pit bull (quoting a test done here in Colorado 2 month ago conducted by people who have a lifetime working with various breeds - the best score was 3 out of 20) I'm not sure this advise means much.

Just like many people should not be parents and whose kids end up like Harris and Klebold there are people who should never own ANY dog, let alone a large, powerful breed.

[DrDan]

81. and funny how the apologists continue to deny the facts

[flvegan]

84. What facts?

Please be specific.

[ET Awful]

85. He can't.

He'll probably cite the decade (plus) old CDC study which admits in it's own text that it's flawed because it doesn't have any population statistics and therefor is NOT a reliable barometer of the behavior of any breed.

Of course you and I can also present the studies showing that so-called pitbulls pass temperament tests at a higher rate than most other breeds, but these type of people only want the fear, they don't want the facts.

[flvegan]

86. I'm betting he tosses up the Merritt Clifton report.

It's from "Animal People" so it can't possibly be written by a lunatic.

[ET Awful]

90. I'm waiting for him to tell us how their jaws lock :) n/t

[DrDan]

138. facts about the pit bull dangers

[flvegan]

152. Which you've failed to list and footnote, doc.

You blather a good game.

[DrDan]

155. been there - done that

it is to no avail.

You believe what you believe.
I believe what I believe.

Neither of us is going to have a change of heart.

[flvegan]

179. And you failed miserably.

It's not a matter of belief. If you have facts (as you've yammered on about continuously), put them up.

[DrDan]

184. save your insults for someone else - I have no intention of even trying to engage you in a civil

discussion

[Scout]

186. what insults? there's no insults in flvegan's posts

just you claiming that there are, and refusing to answer his questions....

[DrDan]

188. "you failed miserably", "yammered", "blather"

I have been through this in the past - not worth doing it again - the statistics are denied, anecdotal stories provided as evidence . . .

Nope - no desire to do it again

[DrDan]

78. well my friend - I love dogs - I grew up with dogs

your insulting comment is offensive

[sui generis]

141. offense is only taken by choice

if I intended to offend I would let you know directly.

You certainly don't sound like someone who is comfortable around dogs, regardless of how you were raised. I was raised by a pack of feral drag queens, which probably accounts for a lot of my acid wit, and even though drag queens in the wild occasionally get rabies and pack up and chew bumpers off police cars, they're not considered a dangerous breed in and of themselves, nor require special permits.

Now nearly all dogs who act aggressively will indeed chase you if you run - but it's not to make food out of you, generally speaking. It's to evict you from their turf. Drag queens do that too.

Dogs are a direct reflection of their humans. In almost every case, behind every misbehaved pet is a misbehaved human. The best thing to do with any aggressive animal is avoid engaging them. Avoid eye contact is the first rule. Leave their "territory" without running.

Yes if a very large aggressive animal DOES chase and attempt to bite you your best bet if you're NOT trained to fight or deal with pain is to ball up tightly and protect your neck and face at all costs. Most healthy dogs, even if aggressive, will back off - it's dog rules. A trained attack dog plays by different rules, but if you're in their turf, leave.

If you do want to take on a large aggressive dog that really is trying to take you down (not snapping or nipping to get you to move), then you have to be meaner and more aggressive than the dog. It's the dog rules, and presumably being human smart gives you the advantage over biting in a dog fight, bloody bite marks aside.

Mostly, avoid confrontation. Dogs don't really like it either. Most barking consists of "come here! go away!" messages from dogs. Almost all dogs will allow you to leave their territory rather than risk getting injured, which makes it harder for them to defend their territory, ironically.

[DrDan]

162. it is probably better to stick to issues - and not attributing personal traits to someone you do

not know.

But . . . I grew up around dogs. My Father raised dogs. I am not now nor have ever been afraid of dogs. My daughter has a dog that we take care of very often and I love walking him and playing with him. So - your comment about not feeling comfortable around dogs is completely off base.

I partially agree. Nature vs nurture.

Nurture. Raising and training a dog can certainly make them more family friendly. But - it does not guarantee that a dog - any dog - will not "snap". There are all-too-common incidents about "good, family" dogs attacking and seriously injuring a family child - or worse.

Nature. Pit Bulls have by their very nature the capability of causing serious injury or death. I have yet to hear about a chihuahua causing a death, even though their incidents of bites might be high.

[sui generis]

166. "by their nature"

well that applies to drunks and dobermans too.

In plain language, I have a problem with the OP for this thread. It implies that the world is full of dangerous dogs, and pit bulls should be singled out for kung fu. Be afraid, be very afraid - really, I am starting to think the world is split up into two camps of people - people who advise and defend people who live their lives afraid, and the rest of us.

No personal judgement intended or implied, just observation.

[DrDan]

168. "by their nature" I am referring to their natural strength

I thought that would have been obvious . . .

[baldguy]

197. "...their natural strenght..."

When my 35-lb Shepherd mix was about a year old, she could drag my 250-lb body across the floor. My present 35-lb full-blooded American Pit Bull Terrier cannot.

A Pit Bulls "natural strength" is no greater than any other dog of similar size - and sometimes its less.

----------------------

I've got to hand it to you- you've been proven wrong time & time again, over & over, and yet you still persist in making vacuous assertions with no basis in reality.

[DrDan]

199. you guys are simply unbelievable

When you don't like a post - just make up some stuff - ". . . 'natural strength' is no greater than any other dog of similar size - and sometimes its less."


even the Pit Bull Lovers acknowledge their strength.

"The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, . . ."

http://www.pitbulllovers.com/american-pit-bull-terrier-breed-standard.html


and

". . . they just have extremely strong jaws . . ."

http://www.ssd.k12.ak.us/PHS/web2005/biancaweb/Myths.html


and

"The American Pit Bull is a very muscular, stocky, yet agile dog which is extremely strong for his size"

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanpitbull.htm


and

"brave and eager to please his master. However, since the dog is so playful and unaware of its own strength, don?t leave it alone with children"

http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures/gallery/dogs/alphabetically/american-pit-bull-terriers/


and

"The real pit bull loves to work - they live to use their powerful and agile bodies in tests of strength"

http://www.workingpitbull.com/activities.htm


and

"Pit Bulls have tremendous jaw strength. They are reputed to have up to 1500 pounds per square inch of jaw pressure"

http://www.essortment.com/all/informationonp_rqvi.htm


and

"Most pit bulls are strong and hardy"
"physically strong and tenacious"
"natural strength and courage"

http://dogs.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Pitbull_Dog

and these quotes are from pit bull friendly sites!!!!!!!!!


unbelievable - just simply unbelievable

[uppityperson]

205. Partial quotes prove only 1 thing. SPeaking of unbelievable. Here...

More quotes from each of those "pit bull friendly sites !!!!!!!!!"

http://www.pitbulllovers.com/american-pit-bull-terrier-breed-standard.html
"The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children.

The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable."

http://www.ssd.k12.ak.us/PHS/web2005/biancaweb/Myths.html
"Pit bulls have more jaw strength per square inch than any other breed. There isn't a way to tell, you could test the psi jaw strength, but there is no way of telling the actual strength because you test it, it most likely wouldn't be the full strength.

Pit bulls attack more people than any other dog. This is far from true. The more popular breeds and mixes are most likely to attack a person than a pit bull. You can actually check the statistics at http://www.atts.org/statistics.html ."

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanpitbull.htm
"The American Pit Bull Terrier has a strong pleasure to please. The APBT has evoked more human emotional, rational, and irrational response than any other breed that exists today. By no means are these dogs people-haters or people-eaters. Their natural aggressive tendencies are toward other dogs and animals, not people. However if they are properly socialized with a firm, but calm, confident, consistent pack leader, they will not even be aggressive with them. The American Pit Bull Terrier is a good-natured, amusing, extremely loyal and affectionate family pet, which is good with children and adults."

http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures/gallery/dogs/alphabetically/american-pit-bull-terriers
"As a side note, it should be posited that most dogs of this breed are not aggressive toward humans at all. This is in contrast to an intuitive feel of the breed. The story goes back to the dog fighting days when breeders would breed them specifically for handlers. The handlers had to heal the dog�s wounds, pull them out from tough fights, and feed them at close range. Therefore, breeders culled all dogs that showed any aggression toward humans. The bloodline of human-unfriendly dogs is hardly ever recorded nowadays. "

http://www.workingpitbull.com/activities.htm
"An American pit bull can be a fantastic choice as a companion/sports partner! The real pit bull loves to work - they live to use their powerful and agile bodies in tests of strength, agility or training. You might be surprised at how many dogsports they excel at! "


http://www.essortment.com/all/informationonp_rqvi.htm
"People may not understand your love for this breed. Be prepared to protect your dog from Pit Bull haters and from bullies who want to put their dog up against your dog. Many uninformed dog owners will want to test their dog against your Pit Bull to prove that Pit Bulls are not such tough dogs. Avoid these people at all costs. Their dogs are not to blame for their stupidity. "

http://dogs.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Pitbull_Dog
"Pitbull dogs bred by responsible breeders are energetic and have a very sweet nature"

"Pitbulls are friendly, active dogs that need a lot of exercise. They are eager to please, inquisitive and very intelligent. Contrary to popular belief, most Pits are patient and adore children, making them wonderful family dogs. Due to their breeding, they tend to be aggressive toward other dogs, but some co-exist well with other pets. While a dog of any breed may become aggressive when raised in an abusive environment, Pitbulls are not naturally aggressive toward people. Pits crave love and attention. "

"Today, the once loved Pitbull is a misunderstood breed. Villainized in the media and threatened by breed specific legislation, Pits may soon be a lost breed. The media is quick to credit any dog bite to this breed. In one case of this kind of misrepresentation, the true culprit was an Akita
, a dog which in no way resembles a Pitbull.

Breed specific legislation affecting Pitbull dogs ranges from all-out bans to laws that require Pitbull owners to carry costly insurance policies. The actual number of Pit bites make up a very small percentage of the nearly five million dog bites reported in America each year.

In tests conducted by The American Canine Temperament Testing Association, Pitbulls have the fourth highest ranking of all breeds for passing the tests, with 95% of Pitbulls passing compared to 77% for all breeds on average. Since Pits are highly intelligent, eager to please, physically strong and tenacious animals, they make great service dogs. Pitbull dogs are often used in search and rescue operations, and by law enforcement for bomb and drug detection. The first certified hearing dog in Alaska was also a Pit. Pitbull dogs can still be found in sports. While cruel and dangerous sports such as dog fighting have been banned in most countries, weight-pull competitions have developed, giving Pits a chance to show off their strength and have some fun. "

[DrDan]

211. oh brother - read the post I responded to

I only said they had a natural strength - and that was challenged by the reply.

Do you also deny their natural strength????????????

[uppityperson]

230. Partial quotes prove only 1 thing. Try replying to what I wrote.

You wrote "Pit Bulls have by their very nature the capability of causing serious injury or death."
followed by partial quotes, cherry picked from varied websites.

I show other quotes, including full ones from which you picked partial ones, from YOUR websites. To which you have no reply except "oh bother-read the post I responded to"?

Every dog has the capability of causing serious injury or death. Why pick on pit bulls?

[DrDan]

235. are you denying their natural strength? Please just say so if you are.

I was citing references - pit bull friendly ones, by the way - that agreed with that.

I have no idea why you posted all those quotes. They add nothing to the "natural strength" discussion.

[DrDan]

257. because the thread is about pit bulls . . . thought that would have been quite evident

[baldguy]

207. You're confusing breed standards & type characteristics with individual abilities..

Dogs of a particular breed are not identical clones of one another. They're each a unique individual.

The simple fact is that my GSD mix was, pound-for-pound, stronger than my APB at the same age. The breed standards say different. They also say GSDs are supposed to be bigger than 35-lbs, too. Doesn't change the facts, though.

[DrDan]

212. sure doesn't - they have a natural strength - as I said

[baldguy]

220. As you insinuated - that Pit Bulls have a supernatural strength above & beyond that of any other dog

[DrDan]

226. "supernatural" is your word - not mine

please do not put words in my mouth.

Go review my posts - I "insinuated" a natural strength - nothing more. And you claimed there wasn't a natural strength.

Do you stand by that against the pro-pit bull references I provided?

[baldguy]

227. "1500 pounds per square inch of jaw pressure" is not natural.

And it happens to be a lie. The references you've posted are hype - nothing more - and have been proven by others posters here to be inaccurate.

[DrDan]

233. those are pit-bull friendly sites

do you still deny their natural strength?

You continue to express your thoughts and feelings about this. How about some references. Show me where ANYONE also thinks they do not possess a natural strength.

[baldguy]

255. Are you going to admit that other dogs - GSDs for example - are just as strong?

Pit Bulls aren't any stronger than other dogs of similar size. They aren't any more aggressive than any sporting dog. They have no unique physical characteristics which differ for other dog breeds which makes them more dangerous.

The simple fact remains: a person is more likely to be killed by their spouse or injured by their bathtub than be attacked by a Pit Bull.

[DrDan]

256. I never said there were not other dogs that possess strength - now did I

I will not admit that they aren't stronger than other dogs of similar size.

I will not admit they aren't any more aggressive than any sporting dog.


I said they have a natural strength and I stand by that, as does the pit-bull friendy crowd.

[baldguy]

260. You will not admit that they aren't stronger than other dogs of similar size.

You will not admit they aren't any more aggressive than any sporting dog.

This means that you will not admit to well-established facts.

I hope to God you never have the responsibility of caring for a dog. Any dog.

[DrDan]

262. when are you going to post some references? You make a lot of claims, like

they do not possess natural strength. But you have yet to back any of the claims up with any references.

I believe I have.


And worry not - I have cared for many dogs - and one is in my care right now.

[baldguy]

264. Tell me one thing.

Why is this dog


stronger than this dog?

[uppityperson]

177. THAT was insulting? Wow. What about that could possible be construed as insulting? Seriously.

[iris27]

219. It's a classic avoidance tactic.

By making the debate about whether or not a post is insulting, one puts off having to actually discuss the issue at hand and back up claims with fact. Bonus points if this is eventually followed by a refusal to continue the discussion "because it's clear you're not interested in being rational or civil".

[baldguy]

68. I believe the last time we had this discussion, you lost.

Badly.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7113041

[DrDan]

79. well , . . . . believe what you will my friend

the facts remain on my side

[Missy Vixen]

80. Do you go to the dog park in your hometown?

We do. The pits aren't the ones I'm afraid of, even though we give any pit without an owner close by a wide berth. The dogs I'm the most afraid of are those whose owners just don't care to make sure their pet is well-behaved via training, and they seem to encompass many breeds.

Dogs aren't "vicious" by nature. Their owners work hard to make them that way.

We won't even talk about people who let their kids run around the dog park with no supervision.

[DrDan]

82. I do also

and those dogs are dangerous by nature

[Missy Vixen]

100. Pit bulls aren't born vicious

They're trained to be so.

They are no different than German Shepherds, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Akitas, and other dog breeds that are exceedingly protective and can be difficult to handle without an excellent trainer and humans dedicated to the task. You're more likely to get bitten by a Chihuahua than a Pit Bull in every day life.

Perhaps you should ask flvegan about his experiences. He fosters and trains Pit Bulls, IIRC.

[DrDan]

136. anecdotal evidence proves nothing

[Missy Vixen]

190. Then I guess your "anecdotal evidence" means nothing, too

There are many dog breeds that are known to be dangerous if provoked. Do we just get rid of all the dogs, then?

[DrDan]

192. I provided some????? Guess I missed it.

and your question is . . . . well, it just defies reason.

Did I anywhere in this thread suggest any actions????? Or do you just make them up?

[Missy Vixen]

201. I believe you stated that all pit bulls are vicious dogs

YOUR "anecdotal evidence".

My question is legitimate, based on your comments re: all dogs considered "vicious" should be destroyed, with or without proof.

>Or do you just make them up?<

I'm not into make-believe.

[DrDan]

213. nothing anecdotal at all about that - statistical evidence

anecdotal refers to isolated cases

[Missy Vixen]

215. And there are people on this thread who've cited evidence that

contradicts yours.

Again: Your anecdotes don't trump anyone else's.

[DrDan]

225. not surprising - there are always conflicting studies

that does not make them anecdotal . . .

I am sure you have a lovely dog. That does not really prove very much, however.

[Missy Vixen]

228. We have a chocolate Lab

Labs will bite, too, but they don't put their teeth on anyone unless provoked.

To say that all dogs are good, and Pit Bulls are all bad, is naive at best.

[DrDan]

234. and exactly who said that. Not me.

Show me anyplace where I said all pit bulls are bad.

Do not put words in my mouth.

"they don't put their teeth on anyone unless provoked" - please cite a reference for that claim.

[DrDan]

239. labs do not bite unless provoked . . . . hmmmmmmm

"My 3 year old lab growls and snaps at every one in the house. He doesn't like to begiving any commands and when he urinates in the house and we have him smell it and put him outside he starts growling and shaking. Today my son went to give a bath and he bit him on the arm."

http://www.insurancefaq.com/question/20070625084254AA00i3n.html


"Labs make up 23 bites, almost twice as many as the next highest breed (boxers and German Shepherds), and only 6 fewer than there were pit bull bites the year they banned them"

http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/2007/01/why_does_no_one_1.html


"Our pit - lab puppy gets very aggressive at night, he bites and growls at my son or barks and attacks him."

http://www.merchantcircle.com/answers/q/60148/Pit-bull---lab-very-aggressive---bites-and-humps-people


"My 10 yr old Lab bite my 16 month old son last night. My lab is a very chilled out dog, but is getting old fast. The dog (Sam) very much likes my son, to date they get along well. Last night my son snuck up on my dog to play with him. Sam was caught off guard and bite my son in the face. I think that Sam is getting hard of hearing. So my dog (I know) feels real bad on what happen last night, this morning he would not even eats is food. My son loves this dog and after all this happen, my son wanted to hug and kiss on my dog. What should I do? This is the second time this has happen, but last night was the worse time, he left 3 big punture wounds on my sons face."

Read more: http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1tocr-my-10-yr-old-lab-bite-my-16-month-old-son-last-night-my-lab#ixzz0kPoLFkMb

[Missy Vixen]

253. I'm done talking with you

It's obvious you are exceedingly anti-dog, but couching your comments in "concern".

:eyes:

[DrDan]

254. just as well - anyone who makes broad-brush statements like

"no lab attacks without provocation" is not hardly worth a conversation.

anti-dog????? get real. I just recognize dogs realistically. Wish the pit-bull apologists would.

[baldguy]

266. Anyone who makes broad-brush statements like

All Pit Bulls are "vicious" and "dangerous".

"Pit Bulls have by their very nature the capability of causing serious injury or death."

"They are any more aggressive than any other dog."

They "should be bred out of existance."

"They're savage & unpredictable."

is not hardly worth a conversation.


Looking at your posts realistically, precisely ALL of your arguments consist of broad-brush statements.

[DrDan]

269. all supported by fact my friend

btw - do you feel comfortable continuing to change my statements????? Isn't that quite disingenuous????

I know "all" was not surrounded by quotes. But did I say all were viscious and dangerous? Or are you simply putting words in my mouth??????

But then again, you have done that in the past, haven't you.

[baldguy]

270. If they're not "all" vicious & dangerous, isn't it insane to put them "all" to death?

The trouble is when you try to clean up your extremist statements so as not to sound too crazy, contradictions & inconsistencies will crop up - it's unavoidable.

Instead of relying on media reports (which have been shown here to be inaccurate), random quotes from cyberspace (which have been shown here to have been taken out of context), and uninformed speculation driven by said inaccurate media reports - it's much easier to stick to the truth (which is supported by the SPCA, Michigan State University, the ABA, the National Canine Research Council, The American Kennel Club, the CDC, the AVA, the Humane Society and dozens of peer-reviewed reports - In short, precisely ALL of the people who know the relevant law, medicine & canine behavior): that the most important factor how a dog behaves is how its treated by the humans who care for it, and otherwise one dog breed is pretty much the same as another in regards to behavior, physical abilities & strength relative to size.

The stupidity of singling out one breed over all others to be the target of your personal fears & irrationalities causes the very problems you wish to avoid. That's the real sad part.

[DrDan]

271. it would be insane to put any of them to death

I do not advocate that AT ALL.

Once again - you are trying to pin your thoughts and words on me.

The pit bull ban has a history of working. That is fact. This tread started as a pit bull thread. I did not start it. Don't pin that on me as well. Go after the OPer if you want to expand his/her thread or criticize someone for picking on one breed.

And please note - my references in this thread were almost entirely pit-bull friendly sites. If they are bogus - let me know.

I just wish you would read my posts and not make up crap to append them - like putting them to death. Those are your words and you will not find me EVER saying that. But I am sure you really already know that as you seem to have spent quite a bit of time going back into the archives.

I find it quite funny that you want to pin a lack of an objective web search on me. Yet you have not posted a single reference to support any of your thoughts and claims.

[baldguy]

273. .

Why is this dog:




Stronger than this dog?:




And why is this dog the cause of more injuries to humans & killed more animals than either of them?:

[DrDan]

274. I am sure you can provide a link . . . you have yet to do so, you know

[baldguy]

276. No link - personal expierience.

Explain it.

[DrDan]

279. thought so

[baldguy]

284. You can't explain it, can you?

Well, here's a little more info to help you:

The Silky Terrier was my mom's. She never trained or socialized Heinzel, treated him like a baby all the time. As a result he attacked everything he saw as a threat: me, my father, neighbors - it didn't matter. Our neighbor had an Akita, a very happy & friendly dog. My mom's dog got out one day & attacked it & took a chunk of meat out of it's neck. (If you didn't know - and given the level of knowledge you've displayed her, you most likely don't - Silkys run 6-9 lbs. Akitas run 35-50 lbs.) This was the first time we suggested to my mom to get rid of the little shit, and she refused. A few months later he got out again & ran away. While we were looking for him, my sister saw him attack a cat. The cute little dog ran it down & killed it while she was watching. This was the second time we suggested getting rid of him. While my mom agonized of her little baby, he attacked my 4-yr old niece & bit her leg. At this, my father picked it up & took it away. We never saw it again.

The Shepherd mix was my previous dog to my current one. When I got Zelda at 7 months, she was disobedient, nippy, and worst of all unusually strong for her size & age. (By the time she was a year, she could easily drag me across the floor, if I wasn't careful.) Her previous owners either weren't able to or didn't want to deal with it, so she's been adopted & returned to the shelter twice already. (I was literally her last chance) With a little patience, attention and training, I turned her into a kind, gentle & (mostly) obedient canine citizen. Though, she was never perfect: she was still able to kill a squirrel & a couple rabbits which invaded her yard, and actually caught a small bird in mid-air that flew too close (which was quite an impressive feat, considering she was 10+yrs old & suffering from cancer at the time.)

The current dog - Orchid the Pit Bull - is 14 months old. She's still very much a puppy and uses her mouth too much & jumps up too often, but I see no problems breaking her of that. She very definitely cannot drag me across the floor - in spite of being a similar size to Zelda. Whether that means I'm a little fatter than I was 10yrs ago, or that Orchid is a little more obedient than Zelda at the same age is debatable. I can say that at 14 months, Orchid walks & heels better than Zelda ever did. She's never had the opportunity to kill anything yet, but she has been beaten up by my sister's cat, and she has run away from a charging full-sized male German Shepherd (and tried to hide behind me, like I'd be able to protect her.)

-------------------------------------

So, if we followed your extremist, uninformed, ill-advised & illogical recommendations, the most dangerous & vicious of these animals would be allowed to live and reproduce & the most gentle and obedient of them would be banned and killed. Simply because, to some suffering from blind prejudice & bigotry, the fist looks cute & the second doesn't.

The simple, unambiguous & unimpeachable fact is such proposals will & do fail because - like you - they discount the personal experience of informed, educated & most of all successful sources, and objective research in medicine, animal behavior & law in favor of sensationalist, wildly inaccurate tabloid headlines.

[DrDan]

297. well - they sound lovely. Not sure why you shared all that.

"extremist, uninformed, ill-advised & illogical" - funny because they are successfully being implemented.

"killed"???? Where is that happening?

"suffering from blind prejudice & bigotry" - well - look into the eyes of those victims and imagine the suffering they went through. dare ya.

"simple, unambiguous,& unimpeachable fact" - funny - you have yet to provide a single reference.


"wildly inaccurate" - look at those pictures and tell me about inaccuracy. Are they faking their deaths? Are they lying about their attackers?

[baldguy]

300. stories like those provided are examples of first-hand, objective expierience.

When a tragedy occurs, reasonable people try to find out why it occurred, and more importantly how to prevent it from occurring again. Reasonable people act out of the desire to make things better using actual research & personal experiences such as provided above to develop solutions.

Unreasonable, irrational people act out of fear. They look for scapegoats to pin their troubles on, sensationalist stories to hype the fears they have and easy, mindless solutions to deal with them. Such solutions never work because they never deal with the actual sources of the problems which cause these tragedies.

The references supporting my position have been endless. There's no point in posting them again.

Just tell me, given your skewed views of Pit Bulls & other dogs, and your absolutist version of reality: How can those three dogs exist?

[DrDan]

301. continue to deny the facts - and that list of pictures will continue to grow

all the hyperbole in the world does not change the facts.

[uppityperson]

304. You really have last-worditis, don't you? nt

[DrDan]

305. no

[DrDan]

306. no

[uppityperson]

310. huh, lets' see.

[baldguy]

309. All the hyperbole is comming from you.

By using absolutist broad-brush language - ALL Pit Bulls are stronger than other dogs, ALL Pit Bulls are more aggressive, ALL Pit Bulls are savage and unpredictable, ALL Pit Bulls are dangerous bloodthirsty freakish evil monsters - you expose the real weakness of you argument. (OK, that last one I made up. But its not far off the mark, right?)

You crassly try to capitalize on the blood of a few innocents, cherry-picking the few news stories that seem to support your increasingly vacuous argument out of the sadly thousands of similar stories out there, the only difference being that those more numerous stories don't involve the object of your irrational ire - the Pit Bull. But just by scratching the surface a little, an objective observer would first find that the breeds involved in your carefully selected stories were A) misidentified, B) were not able to be identified reliably or C) were identified by someone not qualified or incapable of doing so. Secondly, such an observer would see that in these stories, along with the thousands of others you ignore, that the determining factor in the dogs aberrant behavior was the treatment it received by the humans around it. Not it's size, not it's breed, and not any other mysterious, unobservable qualities.

I and others here have refuted every augment you've presented, have repeatedly proven every one of you so-called "facts" to be misleading at best, or outright falsehoods at worst. And I've also presented three concrete examples from my own experience, as free of emotion as I am able, which according to your thesis should not exist - and which you have chosen to ignore also. And no hyperbole in the bunch.

[uppityperson]

311. I think he's getting off on this. Time to disengage?

[baldguy]

316. What? You never poked a beehive with a stick when you were a kid?

:P

I'm off work today & its raining outside. I need to entertain myself somehow.

[DrDan]

312. please point to any post where I claimed ANY of the following

"ALL Pit Bulls are stronger than other dogs, ALL Pit Bulls are more aggressive, ALL Pit Bulls are savage and unpredictable, ALL Pit Bulls are dangerous bloodthirsty freakish evil monsters "

can't do it - can you!

You have refuted NOTHING - refusing to post even a single reference.

All you presented was some description of 3 dogs you owned. Like that proves anything.

Enough. I am tired of wasting time with you.

[baldguy]

317. proof.

"I will not admit that they aren't stronger than other dogs of similar size."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8092540#8107789

"I will not admit they aren't any more aggressive than any sporting dog."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8092540#8107789
(same post)


"A Rotty or Doberman are savage because they are territorial - they will defend their space. A Pit Bull is not savage in that sense-just unpredictable."
So Pit Bulls are savage - just not out of territoriality like other dogs.
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7113041#7121899

And I admitted that "dangerous bloodthirsty freakish evil monsters" was made up - or didn't you read that part

[DrDan]

318. you really do have a problem in this, don't you

not admitting it means I am not sure it is the case. I don't know the opposite is true either.

I freely admit that.

I know pit bulls are strong. I know they can be aggressive. I never said more than or less than other dogs. I know there are other strong dogs. I know there are other aggressive dogs - to include small ones. But I do not believe I ever said pit bulls were the strongest or most aggressive.

You want to attribute additional meaning to my words. I wish you would not do that. There is no reason to do so. It only takes these discussions astray.

I NEVER said kill all of them.
I NEVER attributed any trait to ALL pit bulls.

[baldguy]

321. Are you an ESL student? The double negatives trip up a lot of people.

"I will not admit that they aren't stronger than other dogs of similar size." means "I will admit that they are stronger than other dogs of similar size."

"I will not admit they aren't more aggressive than any sporting dog." means "I will admit they are more aggressive than any sporting dog."

Basic English.


And I don't see any limiting qualifiers or modifiers in any of your statements. You never say "Some Pit Bulls may have, by their very nature, the capability of causing serious injury or death, along with other dogs of similar size," which is quite accurate. You just say "They by their very nature have the capability of causing serious injury or death," which is quite inaccurate. Leaving those qualifiers or modifiers off implies "All". If that's not the meaning you want to convey, those qualifiers or modifiers need to be included. Again, basic English.

[DrDan]

277. .

killed by a pit bull




killed by a pit bull




killed by a pit bull




killed by a pit bull




killed by a pit bull




killed by a pit bull

[baldguy]

283. More personal tragedies - more points for DrDan.

No objective facts anywhere.

[DrDan]

298. they have been provided throughout - from pit-bull friendly sites

where have you posted your first reference supporting your claims?

[DrDan]

272. inaccurate???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRz_1rOi0Vw

no natural strength?????? How many dogs do you know that can scalp a person?

[baldguy]

275. Trying to score points off of another person's personal tragedy again?

As has been said & proven repeatedly, here & elsewhere - ANY DOG OF A SIMILAR SIZE IS ABLE TO DO SIMILAR DAMAGE. AND HAS!!! Focusing on one breed without recognizing the actual causes of such behavior (the lack of or inappropriate training from the dogs owner) will just allow these kinds of attacks to be repeated.

[DrDan]

280. please provide link

[DrDan]

281. and taking appropriate steps that have proven to be effective stops these attacks

[baldguy]

286. And

[baldguy]

287. you

[baldguy]

288. don't

[baldguy]

289. win

[baldguy]

290. just

[baldguy]

291. because

[baldguy]

292. you

[baldguy]

293. have

[baldguy]

294. more

[baldguy]

295. posts.

[DrDan]

296. huh? What in the world are you talking about? Where did I ever say anything close to that

It certainly does explain your total post count, however.

[baldguy]

299. "Who, me?"

:eyes:

[uppityperson]

303. Many dogs can scalp a person. Depends on the size of the dog & person.

[DrDan]

307. and who said differently?

[baldguy]

314. You did.

#272- Question: "How many dogs do you know that can scalp a person?"

#303- Answer: "Many dogs can scalp a person. Depends on the size of the dog & person."

I would add that simply having the ability to do something isn't a guarantee that that something will happen. Such attacks are rare - from any breed of dog, and should not be considered normal behavior for any dog.

[DrDan]

315. do you have a reading comprehension problem? I am beginning to think so.

[uppityperson]

302. I was bit by a lab, unprovoked. Turned out he had an issue with people with long hair

if you tied it back, he was only grouchy. If you had long hair hanging down, he would attack.

He ended up getting killed because he bit too many people unprovoked.

I agree with you that no "breed" of dog is all bad.

[DrDan]

313. unprovoked bite? There is a post in this thread that states that unprovoked

bites do not occur. This did apply to labs however - but no lab ever bites without provocation.

I guess you can pretty well refute that post.

[DrDan]

146. pit bulls are born with the capability to inflict serious injury or death

they can certainly be trained to be vicious. However, training does not guarantee there will not be an attack. These are in the paper with all-too-often frequency.

[smokey nj]

216. All dogs are born with that capability.

[DrDan]

259. I hardly think so

simply because of the strength and tenacity found in pit bulls

[smokey nj]

319. You're absolutely wrong.

[DrDan]

320. a teacup poodle (or whatever they are called)

has the strength to kill?


I guess it could carry some deadly germ that could be passed to a human . . . .

In that respect you could be right.

[uppityperson]

322. Of course they do. Leave one with an infant and yes, could kill/maim the baby.

[DrDan]

323. you guys take the cake . . . must give you credit . . .

[uppityperson]

324. You make wild claims, we show you you are wrong. Thanks for the credit

:hug:

[DrDan]

325. wild claims shared round the country. you are welcome

[uppityperson]

327. Chow, lab, husky, rottweiler, poodle, sheepdog kill/harm babies/kids...

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/136286
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleashed/2008/07/puppy-kills-2-m.html
http://www.vindy.com/news/2008/sep/24/coroner-rules-death-of-baby-killed-by-dog-was
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_396850.html
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=a79e501c-14a2-4964-aa02-f9a5ab25d2a5

[Scout]

127. oh don't get me started on that!

"We won't even talk about people who let their kids run around the dog park with no supervision."

nope, better not go there!

:grr:

[Missy Vixen]

129. A little girl ran into our dog yesterday

Our chocolate Lab was running. She was running. She wasn't looking where she was going. There was a collision so fast neither of us could stop it from happening.

The little girl wouldn't even let us help her up. After all, we are Strangers, therefore, she shouldn't be talking to us.

Where the hell were her parents?

Then again, we'd probably get sued because she skinned her hand and got her dress dirty.

:eyes:

Here's the thing. The dog park is off-leash. Owners have some responsibility for the behavior of their dogs, but in that area, the dogs have the right-of-way. Our dog was being a dog -- running and playing. Another set of parents approached us shortly before the collision and asked if their young sons could throw Moose's ball in the slough so he'd swim for it. We were happy to let them play with our dog. In other words, they were supervised, we could make sure Moose didn't try to knock one of them over (let's face it, he's 80 pounds,) and everyone had fun.

This kind of stuff just bugs me. With all the attention on Amber Alerts and stranger danger, the dog park we go to is sixty freaking acres. In a wooded area. If my two elementary-aged daughters were there with me, I'd stay very, very close.

IMHO. YMMV. Sorry for the threadjack.

[lukasahero]

282. Or, you know, you could choose to learn the facts:

From the American Temperament Test Society:

"AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER Tested: 665 Passed: 567 Failed: 98 Percent: 85.3%"
http://www.atts.org/stats1.html

Which is interesting when placed in comparison to say, the Golden Retriever:
"GOLDEN RETRIEVER Tested: 720 Passed: 609 Failed: 111 Percent: 84.6%"

[superduperfarleft]

15. Does this work on babies, kittens, and bunny rabbits as well?

I've never tried gouging a baby's eyes out, but I'll keep that in mind next time I'm attacked.

[DesertFlower]

19. i was bitten by a dog once. it was a little

chihuahua. the owner was holding him. when i went to pet him he bit my finger.

now when i see a chihuahua, i ask "does he bite"?

[Arugula Latte]

22. That reminds me of the scene from The Pink Panther

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o

Does your dog bite?
No.
**CHOMP**
I thought you said your dog does not bite?
That is not my dog.

[jmowreader]

157. Fucking Chihuahuas!

They say the Cocker is responsible for the highest number of reported dog bites. The dog that bites the most is probably the Chihuahua, but who the hell reports a Chihuahua bite?

[DesertFlower]

187. do you watch dog whisperer?

some chihuahua owners have been bitten so badly that they needed stitches.

dog whisperer had an episode called "terrible chihuahuas".

[The Wizard]

240. When ever someone says

their dog doesn't bite ask them how it eats.
On another note: How do you think a 50 pound pit bull would fare against a 50 pound cat? Keep n mind, a 50 pound cat is not likely to be domesticated.

[MrSlayer]

21. Actually, lifting your knee into its chest as it attacks is the way to go.

This will work with any dog. Keep your hands away from its mouth and keep lifting your knee into its chest. You can hold it at bay indefinitely. If you aren't carrying a bastard sword with you, the knee technique is the way to go.

[yawnmaster]

24. until it rips your knee off of your leg. eom

[MrSlayer]

25. No. I'm dead serious.

This is what I was taught when I volunteered at an animal shelter when I was a kid. It really works. You can keep the fucker off of you long enough for help to arrive.

[jgraz]

34. Damn, I haven't heard the term "bastard sword" since I was 12

I think I still have a 20-sided die somewhere...

[sixstrings75]

44. I was thinking the same thing, lol. 'Bard's Tale' as well. n/t

[Codeine]

56. "Roll for initiative. Oh shit! The pitbull rolled a 20!" nt

[ET Awful]

88. Yeah, but I made my saving throw, regained the advantage and used my

Squeaky Tennis Ball of Doggy Submission

[TorchTheWitch]

35. no it doesn't

Any dog determined to attack will keep trying likely turning the bite on the offending knee and make them even more determined (and the dog ripping off your kneecap). Being slammed in the chest won't incapacitate it at all. I've got an Akita. I'm convinced they're made of solid steel covered in fur. I've slammed my entire BODY into his chest and it doesn't do squat. It's damn near rock solid armor plating, and that's what nature intended for reasons that should be obvious - to withstand incredible impact. And a large or even medium sized dog's chest is FAR stronger than your knee. This technique won't deter a determined attacking dog and worse, you'll likely incapacitate yourself by mangling your knee.

Shove your tightly closed fist into his mouth to the back of the throat. You'll probably scrape your knuckles, but it will pretty damn well incapacitate any attacking dog. A dog's one weapon is it's mouth. All dogs when attacking open their mouths as wide as possible to strike. The tissues of the back of the throat are very sensative and very easily damaged. If about to be attacked by a dog, lean your body weight toward the dog and ram your tightly closed fist into that wide open mouth to hit the the back of the throat. Dog down and out.

A kindler, gentler form of this technique is the best way to train a dog not to bite in play. While telling the dog "no" put your fist deep in their mouth without touching the sensative back of the throat. Dogs nooooooooooooo likey. They will usually try to spit out your fist at the half way point. Stops play biting instantly. Of course, this is assuming the dog is large enough that your fist will fit in it's mouth at all.

[hlthe2b]

23. This applies to those minority of pitbulls who are out of control

Can we add a bit of common sense-- that most pitbulls will not respond to people like this? As one who has had to deal with this and other POTENTIALLY aggressive dogs earlier in my earlier career, I was able to deal with many a fearful/aggressive/injured (WHICH I DISTINCTLY SEPARATE FROM A TRAINED AGGRESSIVE DOG) pitbull as I was with any other breed, including German Shepherds, Rottweilers, chows, etc. I was never once bitten by this or any other breed of dog, simply by taking some basic preventive steps-- in five years of intensive exposure.

If you are fearful of these dogs, then by all means, just keep your distance--avoid totally. But, PLEASE don't assume they are all killers, as this post seems to imply.

[hedgehog]

27. I don't think anyone is talking about jumping a chain link fence to

play with a strange dog. The concern is an uncontrolled dog that encounters you in your territory or neutral ground.

[hlthe2b]

30. Unfortunately, more and more people are fearful of all dogs...

are never raised around dogs, or never taught how to interact with a strange dog. Add to that all the media hype when one of these tragic, yet exceedingly rare attacks occurs and many people are developing a sense of anxiety way out of proportion. These people then start demanding more restrictive, yet nonsensical and nonfunctional, breed-specific dog laws and politicians often capitulate. That is what I seek to avoid.

I understand some people who have harbored fear since having a bite or unfortunate encounter early in life. But, I also think responsible dog owners can go a long way to avoid these life long phobias in people. I know that when I am out walking my dog and a delighted child points, I always offer to the parent to put my dog in a "sit" to allow the child to safely interact and pat her. Most parents take me up on this. I credit them with teaching a child early how to safely approach a dog and to learn those early instinctive lessons to recognize animal body language that signals intent. No matter how busy or hurried I am, I have never failed to stop for those important lessons. Children that never learn this, or who become fearful early in life are actually at a disadvantage. They will put off fearful body language to dogs that, while unlikely to hurt them, may stimulate them to approach in a more assertive way-- that adds to the fear.

When people continue to promote stereotypical information, without necessary context and qualifiers, this only adds to the problem.

[TwilightGardener]

26. Sound advice, as far as I can tell. It's hard to imagine getting that violent with a dog, but

it's just an animal, no different than if a mountain lion or bear attacks you. I have had good luck with pepper spray, though. Bastard ran whimpering away.

[Jim__]

28. "Bust Its Head, Break Its Knees, or Choke It"

Conceptually great advice. But, somewhat hard to implement. Dogs tend to be very quick and can usually dodge what a human can throw at it. In my experience, kicking when the dog is biting will make the dog let go; but even then, it's hard to actually hit them.

[sui generis]

143. obviously never played tug of war with a pit.

They are quick and nimble and can do some really cool nadia cominece stuff with a frisbee. Best thing is, back off, don't run. A dog determines who is more dangerous by who screams like a girl (sorry ladies) and turns and runs for their life. A human who does NOT act like a squeaky chew toy or a squirrel is probably dangerous. It really is that simple.

Pit Bulls are not the problem - they have big old bone heads, big brains, good binocular vision, and as a rule they are naturally social, congenial, and actually pretty willing to like humans even if they don't always trust them. If they don't want to be touched they'll duck away, or growl. They know they're big so they're less likely to "act out" to terrify you into thinking they're bigger.

Being scared of pit bulls is like being scared of horses. Most people will never encounter one in real life, and horses are just about as dangerous.

[TwilightGardener]

147. Well...in defense of horses, they're only potentially dangerous for riders and people

who maintain close contact with them. They don't run up to attack you, they don't guard, and they aren't generally sneaking out of backyards or breaking free from owners and roaming the streets. You have to actively seek out contact with a horse--dogs, and specifically pit bulls, on the other hand, can pop up anywhere (like in my yard). Horses are prey, not predators. Dogs = Horses is a bit silly.

[sui generis]

153. pity we can't roll our eyes in the subject

line.

The bigger point being if there is a pit bull in your yard he's not there to eat you, any more than horse would be.

In defense of pit bulls, if one wants to go around gasping in fear of all the things in life that could happen to you, getting bitten by a rabid horse is about as likely as encountering a dangerous pit bull.

[TwilightGardener]

158. I've had a pit bull/boxer mix repeatedly in my yard, he belonged to the gal across the street

and she used to "accidentally" let him escape to roam the neighborhood. I don't know if he was kind or mean, but there was something in his eyes I didn't like--he didn't wag his tail, wasn't looking to play, didn't have the joy you usually see from escaped house dogs who are running across backyards tasting freedom--he just stood and stared at me, like he was trying to dominate, ignored my "gits". When a strange horse stands in my yard, staring me down, I'll let you know.

[sui generis]

160. Oy you miss my point.

A strange horse is probably as likely to stand in anyone else's yard than an aggressive pit bull. Clearly you are the exception. :P

I get it you like horses, you don't like strange dogs, but the point was to make a ridiculous comparison, not to waste precious consonants and vowels defending it.

[TwilightGardener]

171. And...I'm saying most people will encounter a strange aggressive dog (regardless of breed)

at some point in their daily lives--I've had neighborhood dogs chase me while riding my bike, while running. I've had dogs come into my yard and growl at me. I had a stray dog nip my hand two weeks ago when I went with a realtor to see a house we were interested in--the owner apologized, it wasn't her dog, someone dumped it on her rural property. My kids have both been bitten by friends' dogs (but in both of those cases, I don't blame the dogs, just the situation and circumstances). People do have reason to fear strange dogs approaching them, because it happens a lot. People have no realistic reason to fear livestock.

[sui generis]

172. I'll get back to you if I ever get between my in-law's

spring calves and their moms again. Also the occasional breeding bull.

Seriously most people in the city would be as afraid of a horse or skittish livestock as a dog, for exactly the same reason: unknown.

I just think we should add vampire cows to the fear pile. Pit bulls and vampire cows.

Pits really are the most lovable loyal sweet dog, but they're big and smart and like a big smart kid they need attention, boundaries, social interaction, rules, training and trust.

To finally beat this dead horse to death, so to speak, we might as well say be afraid of feral humans.

I mean, most strangers that approach you reliably and always want something from you, food, money, directions, help or your wallet. :P

Dogs are the same way. If a dog is being aggressive it thinks it has a reason to be aggressive, whether us mere humans can comprehend it or not. But a big friendly dog approaching you can easily be mistaken for aggressive, and then all that kung fu hell from upthread will happen and then I'll have to wade in and kick some "fear everything" crack heads to the curb for causing the situation they want to avoid.

[TwilightGardener]

173. Yeah, I know, bulls and calves. I don't own livestock, so I won't ever encounter that.

But, I own property, and live in a community, and encounter many dogs, the vast majority of whom are sweet. Also met some not-so-sweet ones that scared me. And I'm not indiscriminately afraid of dogs, I have owned several, and I have taken many home (even stopped my car on the highway) to see if I could find their owners. Just saying that fear of aggressive dogs is NOT irrational. Unlike, say, fear of a breeding bull--that would be irrational unless you happen to be in his pasture.

[wolfgangmo]

29. Bottom line

If someone is trying to kill you, be they pit bull or teabagger, then all bets are off.

I once had a right wing nut come onto the property I was managing for a friend (big co-op house) and there was a new tenant downstairs who moved because she was trying to get away from an abusing boyfriend. Early one morning at about 2 or 3 AM I heard some sounds outside so I called my next door neighbor and then went outside with my louisville slugger (dept. of internal security). When I came around the corner he rushed me and I swung for the fences. He went down in a heap and before he could start to get up my naighbor was there with his 1,000,000 candle power flashlight that he used for diving. That bastard was after that scared girl and we made sure that he wouldn't come back - ever.

FYI - he walked off the property but we had his name, address, SSN, etc. and he had some pretty sore body parts. And my wife was inside ready to dial the cops if needed.

I feel the same way about any dog that might threaten my family although I would only escalate violence to shut down the dogs violence. The dog, after all, is not to blame. The owner is.

[Grand Taurean]

31. If you are large enough,

you could kick it around with your legs. Better a bite on the leg then on the face.

[hfojvt]

32. suggestion #5 is more likely to get you a broken hand

especially with a Rottweiler. I smacked one twice on the head (because he was mixing it up with my beagle) with a pool cue and only got a broken pool cue for my troubles.

One key way to avoid conflict with a dog, any dog, is to kneel down. Because if you are standing up tall, that is presented as a challenge, whereas kneeling down is taken as a surrender or as a non-threat.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Pick it up and pile drive it.

Swing it into a tree/telephone pole, etc.

[TorchTheWitch]

40. bad idea - see my post #35

You'd be presenting your face and be in a position that makes you exceedingly vulnerable. A determined attacking dog doesn't care if you surrender, they'll get their chomps in, and when first attacked you have no idea how determined the dog is.

[VMI Dem]

36. 7. Outlaw the fucking breed.

[flvegan]

37. Why?

[JuniperLea]

41. The breed isn't the problem, it's the "human" owners...

Any dog can be made vicious... the only pits who hurt people are pits who have been hurt by people.

Bless the beasts and the children... and lock up the motherfuckers who abuse dogs and create monsters.

[baldguy]

72. +1000

[iris27]

And I guess we'd need to outlaw all those other breeds that kinda look like pits, too?

Wonder how long it would take before dog-fighting jackasses would pick a new favorite breed and DUers would be calling for its ban as well.

[Pavulon]

39. Apply 5lbs of pressure to trigger of handgun, repeat as needed. (nt)

[Paladin]

224. I See You've Found Your Own Level Of Entertainment.... (n/t)

[baldguy]

231. For some, guns the first & only solution to every problem

[Jack Sprat]

42. I hear you, bro.

I have a dog myself and love dogs and cats. I'm sure I could love a pit bull if I raised it or adopted one. But, the jaws and strength of a pit bull can lock on a victim and there is no tomorrow....or if there is a tomorrow, they are scarred physically and emotionally.

There are some people who think their pet tiger or pet boa constrictor are gentle and wouldn't hurt a soul.

[flvegan]

45. 2 myths in your post.

1. A "pit bull" is no stronger (bitewise) than other dogs of their size/stature;
2. The jaws don't "lock"

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JonLP24]

99. It's difficult to play fetch with mine because of those locking jaws

I have to pull the toy with all my strength because she just can't let go. Also feeding her is a problem because her jaw keeps locking as she is chewing her food.

The locking jaw mechanism is a myth.

[ET Awful]

104. Mine has to eat through a straw ever since his jaw locked :P n/t

[HughMoran]

47. I jumped up onto a car faster than you can say OUCH! when a pit/rotty mix snuck up and bit my ass

That was scary - last time I went to that place - lol.

[wizstars]

48. "Feed 'em your bad arm..."

That's what I was taught when I read meters back in college.
Stuff your weakest fist as far down their throat as you can get it. The dog cannot clamp down on your fist/arm when you're tickling their tonsils, and they'll back off when the gag reflex kicks in.

And being fond of dogs myself, I'll add this: save your good fist for beating the crap out of the owner/handler who made it aggressive.

In the three years I read meters, I got bitten by one dog--a little mongrel terrier that was so low to the ground I couldn't reach down to get my fist in its mouth.

[LaPera]

50. Grab him by the head put his head between your legs in your crotch area, apply pressure

with your thighs and shake the pit-bull between your thighs back & forth as hard as you can.....At this point one of you will be screaming for mercy.

[Jack Sprat]

57. The old scissors hold.

Yes, I can envision the outcome. Bulldog Fletcher was great with the scissors hold. Changed his voice, though. He never sounded the same again, inside the ring or out of it. Sang as an alto in the church choir from that day on.

[alfredo]

53. Pit bulls are quite expressive.

When approaching in a friendly manner you will see some side to side motion. When in attack mode, there is no side to side. I had good and bad pit bulls on my mail route. I had to shove my hand (covered by my mail satchel) into its mouth. That stopped him in his tracks.

[Beetwasher]

55. I've Yet To Fight A Pitbill With My Bare Hands, HOWEVER, I Did Kill

A velociraptor with my erect penis. So I think I'm ready.

[Codeine]

58. I watched him do it, people!

A pivotal moment in the history of penis/dinosaur relations.

[Beetwasher]

59. And I Still Say It Wasn't Cheating

to be erect, despite yr interpretation of the rules.

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. A few moments earlier and he could have strangled the hapless dino with it.

Two quick loops and pull tight.

Funny how these things work out.

[Beetwasher]

124. Now You're Exaggerating

I couldn't quite make 2 full loops. But he DID asphyxiate to death, one way or another.

And yes, it still smarts. And it's a bit, err, bent. And bit. In fact, I somewhat resemble a lawn sprinkler right now.

[uppityperson]

69. I don't know what to say.

[Canuckistanian]

111. You are a God among men

:rofl:

[ET Awful]

115. Bill Clinton, is that you? Surely only the Clenis is capable of such a feat!

:P

[texanwitch]

60. A shot gun works.

I don't hate pitbulls but I was attacked by two several years ago.

I was just walking down a street, the dogs came out of nowhere.

All I had was a mop from Kmart to protect me.

Two neighbor guys came to my rescue, and shot the dogs.

The dogs were really big and were trying to kill me.

The dogs owners would let them run the streets.

[baldguy]

63. 7. Give her a squeeky toy

Squeek! Squeek! Squeek!



Blaming Pit Bulls for every dog attack ever is insane. And stupid.

[thelordofhell]

67. 7. Let it hump your leg

Then walk away when it's exhausted.

[Tesha]

70. I love dogs and have a great time playing with them but long ago decided...

...that if I was every *ATTACKED** by one, I would do everything I could
to kill the fucker as quickly as possible and *NOT* worry about how
to subdue it, end the attack, or whatever. There would be *NO*
moderation of force on my part.

I would break its neck, choke, it, whatever it took because I'm pretty
certain that that same equation would be running through the dog's
mind. If it had a collar, I'd grab it by the collar and twist as hard as I
possibly could...

Tesha

*And I think we can all distinguish a true attack from over-exuberant
puppy play and playful nipping.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

71. The companion to "How to stop a bullet with your teeth."

[Tesha]

73. (Duplicate removed by author)

(Ahh, I see. The error occurred writing the "my latest posts"
table.)

[Missy Vixen]

77. There were some pit bull puppies at the dog park yesterday

IMHO, of course, but the dogs that scare me are the ones whose owners think they're at a dog park, therefore, they don't have to keep an eye on their pets. The pit bull puppies I saw yesterday were responsive to their owners, well-supervised, and were much better behaved than other (more "friendly") breeds.

The worst experience we've had at the dog park was with a Doberman obviously trained as an attack dog. We examined our poor pup for injuries (the Doberman went after him for little more than straying into the area he and his owner were in when Moose was recovering his tennis ball,) and told the owner in question it was inappropriate for him to have his dog in a public park frequented by children and even smaller dogs.

I wonder to myself if the large increase in pit bull attacks cited above include dogs who are being mistreated. IMHO.

[JonLP24]

91. I rub her belly

Works for me! :)

[MattBaggins]

94. 5 & 6

A grown adult shouldn't lose to a dog... Kill it.

[ecstatic]

95. I don't feel comfortable jogging anymore due to dogs

I used to jog (reluctantly most times) so seeing huge unattended dogs a few times gave me a great excuse not to bother. Sometimes I think about starting again and bringing pepper spray along...

[KathieG]

102. I don't have a problem with any breed as long as the owner can control it...

the problem with breeds like the pit is that many people that own them can't or don't control them. It's a powerful, high energy breed. Most pits I have known have been good with people, but I don't particularly trust them around other animals. My horse was attacked by a pit that was "people friendly" but apparently liked to eat other animals. Ultimately, it was the owners fault for letting the dog run at large, so I can't blame the dog for doing what came natural to him.

Different breeds have different traits and people need to choose their pets wisely. If you like pits, and you can handle them...no problem. I own horses, they can be dangerous...horses kill a good number of people every year, but would never suggest banning them. I would, however love to ban incompetent idiots from owning them.

[conspirator]

106. What about kicking the Nose? I heard dogs are sensitive in the nose nt

[amborin]

108. the california animal shelters are full of them; it's sad for

the animals

but they terrify me

[dana_b]

119. sorry they terrify you

and it is really sad that there are so many of them. Irresponsible owners who don't spay/neuter and then look what happens.

I have a pit/beagle (we call her our beabull!) that we rescued a few years ago. Love that silly dog.

[Dr. Strange]

109. Best way to defeat a pitbull:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc

[DatManFromNawlins]

110. I feed mine raw kittens and children

But only non-fattening children. None of those little Butterfinger eating bastards for my sweetie pie.

[ET Awful]

114. Mine doesn't like children, they're bad for his digestion. n/t

[sui generis]

142. mine prefers cooked kittens. Sometimes I grill them with lemon.

:P

[AnArmyVeteran]

163. Don't even joke about that. A lot of sick, twisted Michael Vick people are out there.

It's not funny to even suggest what you said. It's sick. I despise those who promote the victimization of animals, children or anyone who is vulnerable. Machoism is a disease...

[DatManFromNawlins]

165. At least we have you to keep us informed of those evil people

You're such a hero!

[AnArmyVeteran]

167. It sounds like we'll be seeing you being interviewed on Fox News someday

Yes, anyone who stands up for those which cannot defend themselves is a hero.

[AmandaMae]

112. I was bit in the face by my family's Jack Russell terrier

Like many of you have been saying, many of the problems have to do with the owners, not the dogs. it's sad how many pit bulls are abandoned and mistreated because of the stereotypes surrounding them, regardless of the nature of the individual dog. I really doubt those statistics, too.

[johnaries]

113. This person obviously knows nothing about dogs, much less any

particular breed.

This person also obviously doesn't like dogs. Dogs are very social animals, and will do anything to protect their family. But they will not attack (yes, even Pit bulls) unless they suspect a threat.

From reading his blog, this is NOT a "very nice person." I wouldn't believe a thing he has to say.

[cornermouse]

116. You could just talk to it and maybe even try to pet it.

Just because its a pit bull doesn't mean its going to go for your throat.

[cornermouse]

117. computer hiccup.

[pipoman]

128. 7. When all else fails

bleed on'eem

[Withywindle]

131. I was always taught with any dog, stand your ground, look it in the eye, and let it sniff your hand.

Hasn't steered me wrong yet. Pit bulls included. I think the main reason I've never been seriously hurt by a dog is that I am not afraid of dogs. Dogs react to fear. How can encouraging fear ever be helpful? :shrug:

[KillCapitalism]

132. I've done #2.

I ran up on top of the highest sitting vehicle I could find at this party, it was an older Jeep Cherokee. Those dogs are persistent though, it jumped up at the car trying to get at me for about half an hour till it gave up.

[Dystopian]

134. Bandit is not pleased.

peace~

[timo]

139. I dont like pitbulls becaquse of what they are made into.

I live in a half ass rural area, 2 sundays ago the wife, all 4 kids (12-3) were playing, gardening etc in the yard.
The pitbull had 3/8's link logging chain wrapped like a vest around its chest and neck, I didnt want any problems with my own animals so I shoo'd it away.
Several hours went by and I went out into the nursery to switch the sprinklers over....mr pit bull is caught by his chain and cable around a t post and is choking, the chains tied with a cord so against better judgment I cut the cord un wrapped the chain and shoo'd the dog away again, I really hate people who do shit like this to these dogs and make them into terrible beasts. after another hour or so I walk out of the house and mr. pitbull is now trying to kill my blue healer, Tiki the blue healer is holding his own but its an uneven match, the pit weighs a good 50 to 75 pounds more, and my kids are inside the net of the trampoline about to watch their beloved dog get killed. mr. pit is now composting in the tree farm, I HATED DOING IT, but I wont hesitate to protect my animals, or family from these poor dumb animals who are turned into monsters by others!!! I keep hoping that the owner will show up looking for this dog so I can lay into them as well!!

[Bucky]

140. Find a nearby infant or small orphan to dangle in front of the pit bull as an alternative snack

Ask the pit bull a mind blowing, truly stupefying question like Kirk did with that super computer than one time.

Before the pit bull bites you, furiously rub a clove of garlic on those body parts it's most likely to chomp

As it moves in for the kill, feign a surprised look, point over its shoulder and exclaim, "Oh-my-God! Is that Toni Tanielle?"

For dudes only: Immediately "whip it out" and pee on the dog, thereby establishing social superiority over the dog.

For nursing mothers only: Immediately "whip them out" and powerlactate the animal into submission. Once it's safely distracted, quietly sneak out the back door of the Olive Garden

[TalkingDog]

145. You forgot the most counterintuitive, yet most effective

Jam you hand as far down his throat as you can get it. He won't be able to continue biting you and you will suffocate him.

I've read about this working with big cats on a couple of occasions.

[cliffordu]

148. 7. Throw a pork chop.

[WilliamPitt]

156. Take it to the Olive Garden

[AnArmyVeteran]

161. A pit bull can exert 5,000-6,000 psi in its bite... (and how my dad short-circuited a racist)

A pit bull has powerful jaws. They can exert up to 6,000 pounds per square inch of force on its victims. That much force can shatter bones and obviously easily kill any unarmed human. A German Shepard's jaws exert about 1,200-1,500 psi of force. I don't know what force a Shih Tzu's bite is, but I'm sure it's not life-threatening.

BTW #1, Anyone notice that right wing conservatives are usually the owners of pit bulls? I've also noticed that men who feel inadequate get pit bulls to give themselves a feeling they are men. The same holds true for a lot of right wingers who buy guns. It makes them feel like men.

BTW #2: My dad used to own a gas station. One of his frequent customers was a deputy sheriff. He always talked about his gun and liked to show it off every time he came into my dad's store. But one day my dad asked the deputy, "What are you doing with such a big gun?" The deputy answered, "If any nigger rapes my daughter I'm going to shoot him!". My dad responded by saying, "You mean it's okay if a white guy does it (rapes his daughter)?" The deputy's mind short-circuited and he was unable to respond to my dad's question. The deputy left bewildered and unable to speak. His small, bigoted mind was just fried by my dad's words. My dad was brilliant and was always able to turn a phrase to outwit people, especially dimwitted racists toting guns.

BTW #3: Anyone in Texas can become a deputy sheriff. All they have to do to qualify is to have an IQ barely higher than the calibre of their guns.

[unapatriciated]

169. lol best post in this thread.

[AnArmyVeteran]

251. Thanks Unapatriciated, it's a true story about my Dad & the racist...

My Dad had millions of stories. I wish I had written them all down. But every once in awhile something I read or hear will remind me of one of his stories, like the deputy sheriff racist story.

[sui generis]

178. And how are psi calculations derived?

Oh yeah, same amount of force extrapolated from a canine tooth point to a square inch. Margin of error = within an order of magnitude = wrong, or at least irrelevant, at least until you get a square inch of surface area in contact with your body.

Bullshit retort #1: Anyone notice that an equal number of pit bull rescues are done by flaming pinko commie bleeding heart liberals? Last time I checked I still had balls, natural hair, voted dark blue, was a gay married terrorist and quite fabulously and luxuriously male and entirely without reservation about nudity for all the reasons you can imagine and I can prove.

Bullshit retort #2: What the hell does that have to do with pit bulls? Pit bulls are not racist.

Bullshit #3: When you say Texas, you should always differentiate between rural and urban Texas, or just don't bother. In urban Texas, which votes blue by the way, we have different standards for law enforcement, which again has NOTHING to do with pit bulls.

[Missy Vixen]

191. Now THIS is a sig line

>Anyone notice that an equal number of pit bull rescues are done by flaming pinko commie bleeding heart liberals? Last time I checked I still had balls, natural hair, voted dark blue, was a gay married terrorist and quite fabulously and luxuriously male and entirely without reservation about nudity for all the reasons you can imagine and I can prove.<

:woohoo:

[uppityperson]

180. I do hope that was sarcasm, way wrong on jaw pressure

http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html

Breed Myths

"Pit Bulls have locking jaws." The jaws of the Pit Bull are functionally
the same as the jaws of any other breed, and this has been proven via
expert examination.

The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the
skulls, mandibles and teeth of Pit Bulls show that, in proportion to their
size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is
no different than that of any breed of dog. There is absolutely
not evidence for the existence of any kind of ’locking mechanism’ unique
to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier,
says Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin of the University of Georgia (from the ADBA
booklet, “Discover the American Pit Bull Terrier.)

"Pit Bulls can hold on with their front teeth while chewing with their
back teeth." As stated above, the Pit Bull’s jaws are, functionally
speaking, the same as all other breeds.

“Pit Bulls don’t feel pain.” Pit Bulls have the same nervous system of
any other breed, and they can and do feel pain. Historically, those dogs
that would tolerate or ignore discomfort and pain and finish the task
they were required to perform were the dogs that were bred and the
sort of dogs breeders strove to produce. This is the trait of “gameness”
that so many breed fanciers speak of, which may be defined as, “The
desire to continue on and/or complete a task despite pain and
discomfort.”

“Pit Bulls have more bite pressure per square inch (PSI) than any
other breed.” This is absolutely false.

Tests that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several
breeds showed pressure PSI (per square inch) to be considerably lower
than some wild estimates that have been made. Testing has shown that
the domestic dog averages about 320 lbs of pressure per square inch.
Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic conducted a comparative
test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit
Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE.

The highest pressure recorded from the Pit Bull was 235 lbs PSI. The
highest from the GSD was 238, and the highest from the Rott was 328.
Dr. Barr states that as far as he knows, the PSI tested in the Rott is the
highest on record for any domestic canine.

What happened to the supposed 10,000 pounds PSI pressure that the
breed supposedly has??? It's a MYTH, pure and simple.

http://www.defendingdog.com/id5.html

According to Dr. I. Lehr Brisbin of the University of Georgia:

In regard to claims of massive 1200 P.S.I., 1500 P.S.I., 1800 P.S.I. jaw strength he says, "To the best of our knowledge, there are no published scientific studies that would allow any meaningful comparision to be made of the biting power of various breeds of dogs. There are, moreover, compelling technical reasons why such data describing biting power in terms of 'pounds per square inch' can never be collected in a meaningful way. All figures describing biting power in such terms can be traced to either unfounded rumor or, in some cases, to newspaper articles with no foundation in factual data.

http://dogbitesinformationandstatistics.blogspot.com/2008/01/canine-bite-force.html

From an Animal Planet news story:

Sept. 15, 2003 — Cheetahs chomp hard and even humans can bite through an ear, but one animal reigns supreme when it comes to possessing the strongest bite — the alligator.

American alligators, Alligator mississippiensis, have the most powerful bite force ever measured. According to a recent study published in the Journal of Zoology of London, alligators snap their strong jaws shut with a force of 2,125 pounds, or with about as much force as a mid-size sedan falling on top of someone.
<...>
"Bite force is linked to the size of an animal," explained Kent Vliet, a University of Florida zoologist who headed up the study. "Since the report was published, we measured the bite of a wild gator, even bigger than Hercules at 13 1/2 feet in length missing the end of his tail. He bit down with a force of 2,960 pounds."
<...>
To put the record measurement into perspective, hyenas, which are bone-crushing mammals, have a bite force of 1,000 pounds, slightly more than the 940 recorded for lions. Dusky sharks manage 330 pounds of force, and a common dog, the Labrador, bites with 125 pounds of force. Humans surprisingly beat out the pet dog, and measured in at 170 pounds of force.

When Brady Barr measured the bite force of various animals for a National Geographic program, a hyena again was measured at 1000 psi pounds of force. A lion's bite force measured 691, a shark 669, and a Rottweiler 328 psi pounds of force. A German shepherd came in at 238, and a pit bull's bite was measured at 235 psi pounds of force.

As far as penis size, yes there are those young men who think that having an OMGPITBULL somehow makes up for inadequacy issues, but there are plenty of people who have OMGPITBULLs as pets who are female and/or perfectly fine with the size of their penis.

[flvegan]

181. 5,000-6,000 psi?

:rofl:

[protocol rv]

208. Yes, it can do that if it has very pointy teeth biting a hard bone

Think about it, let us assume the dog can bit with 100 lbs of force. Then assume it is biting a very hard surface, for example a steel plate. if the dog's teeth are very sharp, then the surface area needed for 6000 psi is 100/6000 or 1/60th of a square inch. I can see how a dog with very sharp teeth can exert that pressure.

The force will be a transient force lasting very short time if the dog's teeth break. The outer surface of teeth is of enamel, composed of prismatic hydroxyapatite crystallites, whereas the inner part of teeth is of dentine, composed collagen fibrils and hydroxyapatite. Enamel is hard, brittle, and wear resistant, while dentine is softer and flexible.

I shall now look for a pitt bull, extract one of its teeth, and measure its compressive strength as well as the surface area of the tooth's point. If the compressive strength of pitt bull teeth is higher than 6000 psi, and this is likely*, and they do have very sharp teeth, then this is indeed something which happens in real life.

*the compressive strength of cement is a lot higher than 6000 psi, as a reference.

[flvegan]

209. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADDxe24ud90

[BeachBaby]

222. +1.

[Codeine]

182. Listen, I don't like pit bulls at all,

but 6,000 PSI would probably shatter their teeth if the bone structure could even support that kind of pressure, which it of course cannot. That's just ridiculous hyperbole. Even an alligator can only manage about 3,500. A lion measures in at about a thousand.

[Texasgal]

183. HUH?

BTW #1, Anyone notice that right wing conservatives are usually the owners of pit bulls? I've also noticed that men who feel inadequate get pit bulls to give themselves a feeling they are men. The same holds true for a lot of right wingers who buy guns. It makes them feel like men.


Where did you get this stat?

[uppityperson]

193. He goes up and manly asks them "are you a republican conservative who feels inadequate?"

They all answer "well, yes, how did you know?" To which he replies "well, does it make you feel a man?"

[BeachBaby]

189. OFFS. You're gonna make me post this AGAIN?

Watch and learn, kiddies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADDxe24ud90&feature=related

[upi402]

195. That was entertainment only. 56% of deaths pitbulls alone

I have no idea and would be glad to see valid stats that refute that number.

[flvegan]

200. Show me stats that back it up.

Now, I'm going to help you out here. Don't use the CDC report, which even the CDC says is unreliable. Also, don't use the Merritt Clifton report. Or any report for that matter that compiles "stats" from newspaper clippings, media outrage and "witnesses" that think every four-legged, big chested dog is a pit bull.

[ET Awful]

249. Nor should you accept any report that lacks data on total number of a breed in the population.

If you have a million pitbulls in existence and 20 of them attack someone, and you have 50,000 Rotweillers and 10 of them attack someone, which, statistically speaking, has a higher per capita chance of attacking someone?

Any report that lacks population information is not scientifically or statistically meaningful.

[BeachBaby]

221. Many a pit was bred/raised to fight. Doesn't make the breed a bunch of killers.

As someone who's worked in animal shelters and veterinarian's offices, I've encountered many an unhappy pup. I've never been attacked by a pit; however, I've been bitten by one German Shepherd, two Rottweilers (although one didn't bite - she grabbed my wrist with her jaw because she thought I was too forward with her human), and one Akita.

People are missing the point here. Pits shouldn't be banned. The breed is not evil. The people who are in charge of them - whether through improper breeding or negligence - are to blame. Nobody else.

[Forkboy]

194. "I"m pro-dog ball."

[Better Believe It]

202. A well trained pit bull is a wonderful dog. The problem is many pit bull owners are not ....

well trained!

They are not responsible owners and treat pit bulls not as pets, but as "watchdogs" to protect their "turf" and property.

That's the problem.

[Blue-Jay]

204. I'm glad that chihuahuas don't weigh 100 pounds.

Mean little fuckers. Pomeranians too.

[tabasco]

214. A large canine versus a large primate.

I'm gonna win every time.

[Blue-Jay]

217. Werewolf vs. Orangutan with titanium underpants...

Who would win?

[flvegan]

223. Not unless you've got a weapon.

You're far less a primate than you think you are.

[Gwendolyn]

218. Well, that's all well and good. But some small frailer people are no match for muscular dog...

in its prime.

I'm a dog person and was stupid enough to be attacked once. Walking down the street with my huge red tote bag I could see the dog coming toward me was aggressive and on way too long a leash but was in la la land. Sure enough, he leapt on me, and while I ain't no weakling that dog knocked me off my feet and clear across a car hood. I was wearing a big sweater under a sheepskin coat (thank goddess) but he still managed to draw blood and my arm was lacerated and bruised for a week. The owner was clueless and did nothing. Finally the dog heeded my commands and let go. The owner walked off as though nothing happened. If I had been an elderly lady or child, forget it. I'd be bearing the scars of mutilation or dead.

I called the cops and they managed to follow the tracks in the snow to a half-way house for a group of mentally challenged individuals. Some asshole macho freak had left his aggressive dog in the care of a cousin who was ill-equipped to care for him, and that was the result.

Anyway, all that to say, I suppose I could've gouged its eyes out, but the shock caught me off guard, and as I said, a person of lesser strength would've been overpowered easily and wouldn't have had the chance.

[Monk06]

229. Pull down your pants and spread butter on your balls. The dog will switch immediately from biting

to licking.

[aikoaiko]

236. I'd just shoot it until it was no longer a threat.

Typically daily carry weapon.

[mstinamotorcity]

237. Well anything dog,cat,repug,can get a bad name

if it does bad things. Pit bulls have a natural instinct for self preservation of it self and its home and handlers/owners.I have a pit/rott mix. His name is Legend. He is part of the family. He is now five years old. And is still as playful as the day we got his six week old self.Most dogs even pits are a product of their handling and breeding. You still have those crazy people who add things to their food to make them more vicious.This does not work people it only gives them bad stomach problems.(Bullshit about gunpowder,red hot pepper). Dogs that you see out on the street are more than likely hungry,if they are on the attack its because they have no way of communicating with strangers,and most strangers fear big dogs.That is when they run and the pursuit begins.If a dog has been bred to fight,they tend to go after other dogs no matter what the size. One of the main reasons people carry their small dogs when taking them out for a walk.(Smile)When confronted by an angry animal my best advice is to find a safe place quickly and enlist help if possible. Report stays to your local humane society or animal control division.Report neighbors who constantly have their dog unattended or not on a leash.And to humans that can read Beware of Dog means just that.:grr: :grr: :grr: :hi:

[bridgit]

246. What, no porcupine?

[baldguy]

265. Bull Terrier - not a Pit Bull.

Shape of the head, shape of the eyes.

Poor dog.

[uppityperson]

308. omg, that poor dog (not a pit bull, by the way).

bull terrier, not a pit bull. Poor dog. Terriers can be very tenacious.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

252. 7. Glock 23 (AKA: "Mah Glock Fotay")

[Prometheus Bound]

258. So is there a consensus yet on "How to Defeat a Pit Bull with Your Bare Hands"?

I don't much like #3.
In #4, mace isn't really bare hands.

[jtuck004]

261. Sounds like a good start would be to defeat stupidity, then feed the dog a cookie.

[baldguy]

263. Don't let people who hate dogs get their hands on one of them.

[burning rain]

278. Or you can try the hippy approach & quote Gandhi or Jesus to it.

This approach gives the same results with Republican attack dogs.