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Two Indiana Catholic schools convert to charters...get 1 million of taxpayer money.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 11:15 PM
Original message
Two Indiana Catholic schools convert to charters...get 1 million of taxpayer money.
Edited on Wed Apr-14-10 11:28 PM by madfloridian
There is a lot of that converting going on now. These religious schools are getting public taxpayer money to keep them open in these bad economic times.

It brings up issues of separation of church and state, or at least it should do that.

The schools claim they will not teach religion once converted to charters, but usually the same staff and administration will be in place.

In Indiana though there is something different. The archdiocese will retain control of the schools even when they begin receiving up to a million dollars of public funding. So that taxpayer money will be going to schools controlled by the Catholic church.

From Americans United for Separation of Church and State:

Charter Challenge: Catholic School Conversions Worry Legal Experts

Two Catholic elementary schools in Indianapolis will convert to public charter schools and receive nearly $1 million in state funding, according to a plan that was recently authorized by city officials.

St. Anthony’s and St. Andrew and St. Rita Academy will be among the many Catholic-to-charter school conversions approved throughout the country within the past couple of years. In an effort to save failing Catholic schools, officials in Florida, New York, Texas and the District of Columbia have also approved similar conversions.

Just like schools in all the other states, the Indianapolis schools have agreed to stop religious instruction and remove religious symbols in order to receive the public funding. But for the first time, an archdiocese will retain control and continue to run the public school – a move that makes church-state separationists more than a little nervous, to say the least.


Wonder how the public feels about that million of their money going to two religious schools? Or are they aware?

The AU says that charter schools are public schools that are not required to abide by the same accountability standards.

But in my mind if the Catholic church is running the schools...they are not public schools. They are just getting taxpayer money as a privately run school. Big difference.

Here is more from the AP on the topic:

Indiana schools conversion clouded by church/state issues

INDIANAPOLIS — A plan to create what could be the first U.S. public charter schools run by a Roman Catholic archdiocese is meeting resistance from those who worry about whether religious messages and icons will really stay out of the classrooms and hallways.

Mayor Greg Ballard says the plan is an innovative way to keep schools open so they can fill the needs of families in the struggling areas surrounding the schools. Archdiocese officials saw an opportunity to keep the schools open despite a growing budget deficit.

"A good neighborhood school is always a good thing to have," Ballard said. "These schools have been around for a while and obviously have trouble making ends meet, but they still provide a valuable service for these neighborhoods."

The city approved the plan April 5 to convert St. Anthony's and St. Andrew & St. Rita Academy in a move that would qualify the schools for nearly $1 million in state funding in the first year.


One million to two schools? Taxpayer money? Am I reading that right?

Looks like this Commonweal blog calls them "church-run charters".

Catholic schools to be church-run charters

As this post shows it brings up issues for those who want their children attending a Catholic school...will it really become secular in nature while getting that million of taxpayer money?

The Archdiocese of Indianapolis has announced that it will convert two Catholic schools into publicly funded charter schools – but will continue to run them itself through a corporation it controls. The decision to retain control of the schools – absent religious trappings – is a first (The Washington and Miami archdioceses have both turned schools over to other charter-school operators.).

This has led to worries that the separation of church and state will be violated. I will leave that to others and instead express concern for what this development means for Catholic schools. How important is the Catholic faith to the quality of education provided in Catholic schools? What will be the effect on other Catholic schools if parents can send their children for free to a charter school run with the blessings of the archbishop?


In Florida at least seven Catholic schools have been turned into charters...or are in the process of being converted. Also a strict religious school in Palmetto Florida which teaches/taught creationism became a charter as well...getting public money.

Catholic schools in Florida converting to charters

And so, the Archdiocese of Miami will begin its experiment with charter schools this fall. What was intended as a pilot program at one parish – Corpus Christi in Wynwood – will become, for financial reasons, the norm at seven more. Charters also will open in August where five other Catholic schools closed this June: Sacred Heart, Our Lady of Divine Providence in Sweetwater, St. Francis Xavier in Overtown, St. Stephen in Miramar and St. Clement in Fort Lauderdale.

A seventh charter will open at St. Malachy in Tamarac, which opted to close its school before its financial situation deteriorated further. And an eighth charter will open in Miami Gardens, in the building used by St. Monica School until it closed in May 2008.

Charter schools are free, funded by public dollars, so religion cannot be taught during the school day. Unlike traditional public schools, however, charter schools operate independently of the local school board and have more leeway in managing day-to-day operations.

Because the parishes are leasing their former school buildings to the charter schools, they are deriving income from the properties. The amount ranges between $150,000 and $350,000 this first year, “depending on the size, capacity and condition of the facilities,” according to Fernando Zulueta, president of Academica, a company that provides management and support services for most of the charter schools opening on archdiocesan properties.


Did you notice that they will not only get taxpayer money, they will profit from real estate deals.

Mixing public and private money with religion is not a good thing. All this is happening so quickly I doubt too many people understand what is going on.

It's an huge onslaught against public education, and it is speeding up this last year. Like a runaway train.

Yet the public schools and the teachers there are expected to perform better, to conform to higher and higher standards...while the money that should fund them is going to charter schools that are run without all the regulations those public schools must follow.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. What if that million were being given to public schools in that city?
Just a thought.

What if the money going to the 7 converted Catholic and 1 other evangelical school were going to public schools in Florida?

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kas125 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. I live in Indiana and am so glad that my youngest kid will
be graduating this year. Our governor had Jeb Bush come here to show everyone the wonders he did with Florida's education system and now ours is following their map. I worked in a support role at our local elementary school for ten years and have many teachers as friends and my sort of adopted daughter, whose mom was my best friend before she died, will become a first year high school teacher next year. I worry about what all this will mean for them.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Jeb is working behind the scenes in FL still. Still doing harm.
Lots of it. Many believe he is behind the new bill that will harm teachers so much.
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kas125 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I'm sure he is! I've been reading about that family - damn,
they're behind EVERYTHING! It truly makes me ill when I see the legislators of the state where I live worshiping them as if they have the answers to the problems they caused in the first place.
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. FDR's biggest mistake
Was not lining Grandpappy "Hitler's oil fix" Bush against a wall and havig him shot when he was running oil by the tankerful to the Nazi's during WW2.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I'm amazed she found a job. . . They are laying off teachers all over the state!
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. charter schools are part of the rightwing attack on public education
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yes, and they are crossing religious and secular boundaries...
to do those attacks.

It is stunning that no Democratic leaders are speaking out as public education is being dismantled.

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Yes it is.. They failed with their lame-brained voucher plans
when people figured out that first of all, there were not enough private schools even around, and secondly, that $3K voucher was worthless at really good schools.

This is the next phase.

The hunger to "get out" was stoked..(demand created)

Now the church-y schools can just "change their names" & become "chartered", and all that tax money comes rolling in..


Every tax dollar that goes to them, is a tax dollar that's no longer available to traditional public schools.

This whole scheme, from start to finish, is about union busting, and skimming money off the top for the people who are at the top.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Well said.
"Every tax dollar that goes to them, is a tax dollar that's no longer available to traditional public schools."
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. And wait until the tuition goes up and up, as will taxes
Piratization always ends up with the same result: higher taxes and higher use costs for taxpayers. NO savings; in fact negative savings. But Wall Street gets rich.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. People overall now seem ok with their taxes funding religious schools.
I have noticed that a lot more recently.

Since there is no political voice opposing it, it will continue as planned.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. More about the archdiocese group that will run the schools.
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100410/NEWS02/4100350/Church-state+issue+clouds+schools++conversion

"Filling needs

Ballard, who approved the charters, said the move is an “innovative” way to keep schools open so they can fill the needs of families in the struggling areas surrounding the schools.

“A good neighborhood school is always a good thing to have,” Ballard said. “These schools have been around for a while and obviously have trouble making ends meet, but they still provide a valuable service for these neighborhoods.”

Karega Rausch, director of Indianapolis' charter schools, said Indianapolis' approach is unique because ADI Charter Schools Inc., a nonprofit founded by the archdiocese, will continue to run the schools."


Most charters are run by private though supposedly secular groups.

"Catholic church leaders in New York, and Washington, D.C., have converted parish schools into charter schools, but those were operated by secular organizations, he said.Greg Richmond, president of the National Association of Charter School Authorizers, said more parochial schools are considering converting to charters.

“This is certainly becoming a much more frequent topic of discussion than it used to be,” Richmond said. “If you'd asked me this question three years ago, I'd have said that it's come up a couple times in the last 15 years across the country.”

Officials say they're confident the schools can successfully separate church and state from their daily operations. The schools will use a secular adaptation of the state-approved character education curriculum already used in the city's urban Catholic schools, according to the charter application.


More:

Catholic values

Guillen, who plans to enroll Ivan in the sixth grade at the renamed St. Anthony's charter this fall, said children will still learn Catholic values so long as their parents are involved at the school and keep their children active in the church. Still, Richmond thinks the schools will have to walk a fine line as they learn the rules for admissions, expulsions and accountability for funds for public schools.


Public education traditionally is not about Catholic values or evangelical values or any religious values. It should be about learning that is free from a religious point of view.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. And they didn't bother giving money to the public schools in the same neighborhoods?
?
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. .
.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R'd
Indianans, call the state.
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LittleGirl Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. I just moved to Indy
this is an outrage. Not only are they converting the school to charter, but profiting from the real estate? If there is a way to get this stopped before the next school year, I'll assist. Just PM me.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. I don't know how to stop it when there is no opposition party to it
The Democrats are very much on board...so who do you call? I just don't know.
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. This is Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong!
Damn I remember as a kid, when Kennedy ran for office and the press made JFK promise that he would not take marching orders from the pope.
The RW yelled about the seperation of church back then!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. JFK 1960: "I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute"
JFK 1960: "I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute"

But because I am a Catholic, and no Catholic has ever been elected president, the real issues in this campaign have been obscured — perhaps deliberately, in some quarters less responsible than this. So it is apparently necessary for me to state once again not what kind of church I believe in — for that should be important only to me — but what kind of America I believe in.

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute, where no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote; where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference; and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish; where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source; where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials; and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.


Times have surely changed since then.
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Sadie5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Sorry to hear this
Public schools in the area of these two catholic schools could certainly use that 1 million. Catholic schools pay their teachers less money than public schools pay, will they now get a raise if they teach at the charter schools. People are always under the impression that catholic schools are self supporting but for years they have accepted government food subsidies. They usually maintain a good grade average(perfect 4.0) by only taking the 'smart kids', all others, even if in the same family go to public school. The same with behavior problems. If you kid is a menace to other children you will be asked to remove him/her and send the child to public school. Catholics will want their kids to have that religious training they are used to getting. There will be no more morning mass nor will the students be able to take part in the ceremony. These parishioners who support their parishes will not be happy about this. Expect a few sheep to stray from the flock and move if necessary to attend another Parrish where their kids can go to Catholic school once more.
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Thank You Madfloridian!
I will cherish this quote in my journals.

Freedom of religion is such a cornerstone of America!

Freedom of and freedom from...religion.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Seems like lots of people are taking marching orders from some religious entity
Not sure if it's the pope, but it's coming from somewhere.
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yet I bet they keep being Catholic schools
and according to some here, that would violate the law when attaining Charter status.

So which is it?
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Laws? Who follows laws anymore?
:sarcasm:
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