Dear best friend of almost 50 years (health care vs illegal immigrants)

[mimitabby]

Dear best friend that I have had ever since we were 13 years old,

The conversation started innocently enough, we were talking about traveling to take the train to visit our adult children, yours lives in Tallahassee and you live in Orlando, mine will be moving to Vancouver, Canada and I live in Seattle.

I had mentioned that Canada has started some new train lines so I have more choices and you mentioned that they shut the train down to Tallahassee and they do not intend to ever run it again. We talked about infrastructure failing.
And that’s when you said it: “…we pay for health care for Illegal Immigrants but we can’t afford to have train lines.”

Aghast, I quipped, “oh, yeah, and the war too.”

And you agreed with me, but I quickly changed the subject because I really value our friendship and I knew we could get into an ugly place. But I was stunned. I know that you get your news from a more conservative news source than I do, but you (against your husband’s wishes) voted for Obama (because your children promised you that he really was the right choice for our country) despite the fact that you were terrified that life as you knew it was going to change forever because of him. It really didn’t, I hope you noticed. But I digress.

Right now, in this country, if a sick felon walks into a hospital, he gets medical care. Murderers can get heart surgery, rapists can get their hernias repaired and their diabetes maintained. But you would deny medication from someone because he/she is an illegal immigrant? Or the infant child of an illegal immigrant?

I am absolutely devastated to discover that you feel this way. Our friendship from the beginning has had to do with the fact that we were both independent thinkers, with morals and ethics.

Can you explain to me how you could deny health care to any child, no matter where it was born? Can you look me in the face and tell me that this child is less deserving at life than you or I, or, any common criminal? We were both raised Catholic, and although I do not any longer consider myself one, I still hold the basic tenets to heart. “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you”

Last night we watched a movie about Padre Pio. He was a priest who lived in Southern Italy whose life’s dream was to build a hospital to treat the sick. Not just rich sick people, or sick Italian people, but sick people. He would have been devastated and given up the project if the authorities had told him; “You can only treat these people in your hospital, but not those, because they are illegals”. Can you really, in your heart of hearts believe that this is just?

I am not suggesting that we take people who entered this country illegally and roll out the red carpet for them. I know that there should be limits to how many people be allowed to cross our borders, and that for most of them, probably the smartest thing we can do is to send them back to where they came from. But there should never be limits to kindness and respect in the way we humans treat each other.
It’s not like most illegals bear us malice or even hurt us in some way. They do jobs that not one of us wants to do. And most of them are just here because they want to do better for their families.

They want the same things we want. They love their families, their children. Most of them pay taxes and then send huge percentages of their salaries home to their families who stayed behind. Most illegal immigrants are good people, just like most citizens are good people.

I did take the time to do some fact checking before I said anything stupid, but here’s what I found out. We have already been paying for the health care of illegal immigrants. They go to the emergency room, where doctors treat them compassionately.

I have a doctor friend who quit working in the emergency room because it was such a broken system. He found it devastating to constantly be treating people for life-threatening chronic illnesses. These illnesses started out as simple things that should have been fixed with a doctor’s visit and a prescription months or years before they ended up in his care in the emergency room. To him, the major problem wasn’t that some of his patients weren’t legal citizens, it was that most of his patients legal and illegal, couldn’t afford basic healthcare. That’s why he quit.

The fact is, we already pay for them. And we probably always will.
I really don’t want to lose your friendship. We have been there for each other for almost 50 years now. But I have to say these words because I still can’t believe that in your heart of hearts, you meant what you said.

[Mira]

1. Oh, Mimi! It hurts to read it

as it hurts to live it.
You did a great job of presenting the overall issues involved, touching on all of them.
Except the one that might put it into their silly heads: When a person with untreated illness coughs germs in your presence, do you think it matters if they are illegally here?

It's better for everybody, the whole country, to have a healthier population.
Damn.
I just get mad.

Reommended

[bobbolink]

15. That is the point that I see, Mira... enlightened self-interest.

Even if they don't give a damn about the welfare of another, surely they can see how bad it is for NATIONAL SECURITY to have people walking around sick, without care affecting others.

Don't they remember TB, and polio, and how scared people were of being around strangers? Those are serious illnesses, both of which can cause huge outbreaks, and there are many things today in the same category. If only for their self-interest in them and their children, they should be able to understand this!

On the other hand, for *me* (and I'm certainly not speaking for anyone other than myself), because I am homeless, and have been harmed by being blamed, I could NOT be around ANYONE, conservative or "progressive" who blames people who are the victims of the ignorance of society. It isn't just annoying... its a soul killer and I can't do it.

I can't hang onto the hope of "converting" them.... I have seen how rigid people can be, both conservative and "progressive", when it comes to challenging ideas that would force them to actually, ---gasp--- CHANGE.

[jtrockville]

2. Hope you fare better than I.

Had a similar conversation with my brother. We grew up on welfare. We received federal loans to go to college. I was sure he didn't believe the things he said about wishing to deny care to those folks unfortunate enough to find themselves unhealthy AND unwealthy (given all the assistance he received himself), so I replied back with similar sentiments as you stated in your letter. He declared he won't read emails from me anymore.

* shrugs *

[mimitabby]

3. oh brother

that's pretty bad. your brother. Not sure I'm going to send this letter to her.. I can't bear to think of the consequences

[jtrockville]

5. All I can say is: be prepared for anything.

Maybe you'll be more persuasive than I was, but it's risky.

[Klukie]

4. Fantastic letter....because it is honest and from the heart...

I have only one concern and that is the sentiment that illegal immigrants do the jobs that not one of us wants to do. I think there are plenty of Americans that want to do these jobs but cannot afford to live in todays society on the wages they provide. I would take more of an angle that American jobs were sacrificed via cheap labor to justify low costs that could have been obtained thru reduction in profits. In other words, we have allowed big corporations to exploit people in order to buy cheap products.

[dixiegrrrrl]

6. Your point of view WOULD be a great addition to the discussion.

[LibertyLover]

7. It sounds like a conversation I could have with my friend of 50+ years

We met when I was 3 and she was 6. We lived next door to each other growing up. I remember how happy we were when JFK was elected and how devastated when he was killed. We protested the Vietnam War together. After she got married I was godmother and second mom to her 2 children. I visited her house almost every weekend for years. Then things started to change. During the Reagan years, she got involved in local politics and ran for town government on the Republican ticket. She was elected twice as a Republican. I got to know the Republicans governing her small upstate New York town very well and was decidedly turned off by some of their attitudes, beliefs and behaviors. Her first husband was a cop and loved guns. So she decided to love guns too. She was a better shot then he was and it was just one of the things that led eventually to the break down of their marriage. As the years past she got more conservative. When he retired from the force after 20 years and they moved to Florida, the break up of their marriage and her conservative mindset accelerated. Both were painful to see. What was worse was that my young 20s godchildren were equally conservative if not more so. Ever wander around a gun show with your 22 year old godson and watch in horror as he signs up for information on a militia group forming in the area? Not good fun, I promise you.

She was thrilled for me when I got married at the late age of 45 and 5 years later became a mother by adopting a little girl from China, but by now she was remarried to a really conservative man, who has several times lost his job in the banking sector because of economic instabilities that they blame on the government. The first time they met my daughter was painful. We were at DisneyWorld and both of them kept making racist remarks about some of the foreign visitors. When the finally made a comment about some visiting Chinese, I had all I could do to restrain myself. Luckily they remembered about my 2 year old daughter and apologized.

We now no longer discuss politics or much of anything else. They are settling down towards retirement and grandparenthood. I'm working on deciding whether or not I want to save my problematic marriage and being a working mom to an active 7 year old daughter. Sadly right now I prefer the lack of substance in our talks because I know if we began to discuss anything beyond how cute a 2 year old is and how sad it is that my daughter has to make up some snow days in June, we would probably find that our friendship was over. I've lost so much, I don't want to loose her. I'm hoping that in a few years she will see the light and return to the fold. I hope so.

[mimitabby]

10. the lie

LibertyLover,
what a sad story. I think a lot of us share similar stories. Those of us who believe the lie and those of us that know it's a lie.
all i can do is shake my head.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Only a conservative marriage would break up because she was a better shot

I admire you putting up with this friend. I would have a hard time with anyone like that in my life.

[LibertyLover]

21. That was only part of it of course, but still -

you have to admit that it does add an interesting dimension to "irreconcilable differences".

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. I have 2 best friends of over 25 years.

One has stated she prefers to not discuss politics with me. I know this is because she is more conservative.
The other friend is just not "interested" in politics.

In both cases, we have tons of similarities otherwise.

So, after a period of reflection, I chose to focus on what we have in common and keep the friendships.


OTH, I have 2 brothers, both became policemen, both grew into very conservative people.
They refuse to have anything to do with my 3rd, younger brother, because he is gay.

Because they are equally right wing and rigid in their thinking about most of life issues, we have very little in common.
I have not had any kind of relationship with the 2 homophobic brothers for over 20 years now. They do not represent my idea of "family".


You may find writing, without sending, the letter is sufficient for venting your feelings.

I applaud your willingness to re-evaluate on what you need in a friend.

[ljm2002]

9. If your friend is referring to the Health Care (insurance) Bill...

...then they are simply mistaken. The bill that passed Congress specifically excludes illegal immigrants from any of its benefits.

So we all will continue to pay for acute care at the emergency rooms for those folks.

[mimitabby]

11. of course they are mistaken

that is part of what is so sad about it. they are just repeating talking points that they heard on Fox news...

[NanceGreggs]

12. It is obvious this came from the heart. mimitabby ...

... and you have, at the very least, given your friend food for thought.

"There should never be limits to kindness and respect in the way we humans treat each other."

That statement, more than any other, truly goes to the heart of the matter. There are too many people these days who concern themselves with the politics of any given situation, and use that concern as an excuse to dismiss their natural instincts (and I believe they ARE natural) to empathize with others, and at least attempt to see things from their perspective.

I know it sometimes takes more patience and perseverance than we think should be necessary to reach out to those who seem so willing to think the worst of their fellow human beings.

But your efforts will pay off - if not with this particular friend, perhaps with another - and another, and another. Keep that in mind when you feel driven out-of-your-mind not by those who cannot see, but those who will not see. One never knows where inroads can be made that eventually lead to the better path to be taken.

This was a wonderful letter, mimitabby - and although it may not reach the heart of your friend, rest assured it has touched the hearts of many here.

[pitohui]

13. trying to figure out this line

you say --

Right now, in this country, if a sick felon walks into a hospital, he gets medical care. Murderers can get heart surgery, rapists can get their hernias repaired and their diabetes maintained. But you would deny medication from someone because he/she is an illegal immigrant? Or the infant child of an illegal immigrant?

i'm sorry but i know any number of people who cannot walk into a hospital and get medical care, this sentence is just a plain lie

do you really think if my friend w. a brain tumor confessed to or committed a murder he would suddenly get free care? do you really think there is free medical care for felons/murderers in america? you are just as guilty of repeating "talking points" and lies as your "friend" if the friend even exists...

none of this is true


you can't commit murder and suddenly get free medical care, you can't be a felon and suddenly get great free medical care , that's just bullshit and WORSE than bullshit

an argument based on lies is not gonna win hearts & minds, lies don't win anything, they turn people off because now they can't trust a word out of your mouth

are you trying to discredit those who would fight for universal health care? because spreading lies is a great way to do it...

[mimitabby]

17. wrong, Pitahui

my half brother is in prison and has had both heart surgery AND shoulder surgery. IN prison. On our dime.

[REP]

18. The truth is somewhere in between

There is health care in prisons; this is true without doubt. The quality of that care varies considerably from institution to institution; from good to abysmal. Your basic point, however, stands: medical care is provided to even the worst of convicts.

The quality of health care in prisons is a good topic for another thread!

I'm sorry your half-brother is in prison but I'm glad he got the care he needed.

(and to be clear ... I'm AGREEING with you! :-))

[Mojeoux]

16. My Mom's Name was Mimi. She was a nurse.

Thanks for your post. My Mom would have echoed every word you've written. She was a school nurse and she deplored the cutbacks in the public school systems and she loved kids all kids.

I don't get how people can not see that the slippery slope of their arguments slides right into a vulnerable human being.

[DatManFromNawlins]

19. "They do jobs that not one of us wants to do." = zero independent thought

[Festivito]

20. I asked it differently. How much MORE do you want to pay to deny them?

The most amazing thing about health care is that basic service costs LESS when covering everyone for everything. LESS. Let me repeat that: LESS. About $3,000 per capita covers everyone from Canada at $3,500 to G.B. at just under $3,000 per capita. We pay $7,200 per capita at last count!? MORE THAN TWICE AS MUCH!

If I'm an American in Canada and I break my arm, I can walk in, they'd set it, AND NOT EVEN KNOW HOW TO BILL ME. This happened to a DUer.

They're just sitting there waiting for emergencies until time to go home.

So, the question is: How much above $3,000 per capita do you want to pay in order to deny undocumented persons from obtaining health care? $200? $1,000? double?

And, follow up with whether or not they'd like to have the job of being the extra, costly, payed person to stand at one of the many emergency rooms during one of the many shifts of the day, payed to tell a person who needs care and lost his wallet that he's not getting any care today, and he should go somewhere else or die quietly ...

How much more indeed.