No wonder she couldn't name a founding father..

[HipChick]

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/2012/sarah-palin-founding-fathers-wouldnt-agree-with-separation-of-church-and-state/

A bunch of people have already had some fun with Sarah Palin’s claim, at a religious gathering in Kentucky, that religion shouldn’t be “separated” from the state.

Word of Palin’s assertion came in an article in the Louisville Courier-Journal about an evangelical women’s conference featuring Palin. It quotes Palin as saying: “God shouldn’t be separated from the state.”

But I’ve obtained a full transcript of Palin’s remarks, and it’s worse than you might have thought: She cited the Founding Fathers as proof that God shouldn’t be separated from the state. Peter Smith, the Courier-Journal reporter who broke the story, sends over the full context of her remarks:

I beg you, Women of Joy, to bring light and be involved, loving America and praying for her. Really, it is our solemn duty. Praying for true spiritual awakening to overcome deterioration. That is where God wants us to be. Lest anyone try to convince you that God should be separated from the state, our Founding Fathers, they were believers. And George Washington, he saw faith in God as basic to life.

This is substandard history. In reality, the separation of church and state, thanks in part to the efforts of those very same Founding Fathers, is enshrined in the Bill of Rights:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

And the phrase “separation of church and state” is generally associated with a letter written by Founding Father Thomas Jefferson in which he interpreted the above clause along those lines.

There was a time when this sort of thing would provoke widespread media mockery and perhaps even be seen as a potential disqualifier for the presidency.

[livetohike]

1. Palin doesn't understand the Constitution and I'm sure she is

being tutored so that one day she may be able to answer a question or two. However, I believe she is incapable of learning. Her IQ is probably <80 .

[xxqqqzme]

2. I remember when it would have been

evidence of an inadequate education making the person unacceptable to hold public office.

[Fumesucker]

4. If so then it hasn't been for some time..

Keep in mind that George Herbert Walker Bush while he was POTUS said he didn't think atheists could be patriotic or even citizens.

[havocmom]

3. Considering Texas has edited Jefferson out of textbooks (and TX pretty much rule textbooks)

it seems safe to suggest that revisionist history has merged with ridiculous religious fanaticism to re-write what America was so they can control what it will be.

I am glad I am old and won't be around much longer. There is an American Dark Ages coming.

[nenagh]

8. I hope you are around for a long time

I am older also.... and sense a kind of darkness.... but that is now..

I do feel with all the strength that forums like DU have to articulate the truth...

That the dark age is now, but that it will be overcome..

[havocmom]

9. Thank you for your kindness

You have no idea what it means to me just now.

[FLyellowdog]

14. No, Havocmom....

you are too caring a person not to stay around for ages and ages. I look for you often here, and hope you NEVER leave us. :hug:

[ismnotwasm]

5. pray for "Her?"

I know it's common the refer to countries with female pronouns, but something about it when Palin does it strikes me as a slightly obscene. Maybe because she apparently has a completely reversed digestive system. Nothing but shit coming out of her mouth.

[jpak]

6. Yeah Sarah - there should be a religious test for public office

You would flunk

miserably

:D

[BobbyBoring]

7. It's scarey

to think that there are people who look at this dimwit and see a great American. The idea of putting a whack job who's gleefully awaiting the "Rapture" near the worlds largest nucler arsenal scares the crap out of me!

[KansDem]

10. She's in this for the geld...

Taking the rubes for all their worth.

I'm about convinced of this.

She's made...what?...$12 million since last summer. She's going all the way and collecting who knows how much more.

If she should win the presidency (and that's an impossible "if"), then that's icing on the cake. But she's in it for the geld...

Taking the rubes for all their worth...

[izquierdista]

13. It will all be gone soon

But if you have a double-wide dealership in Wasilla, you're gonna be rich!

[gratuitous]

11. Pretty cagey locution

Notice that Mrs. Palin doesn't call for establishment of a state religion; I think she's too smart (no, really!) to do that. But she very carefully says that the Founding Fathers were believers, which is beyond dispute. And she says that George Washington saw faith in God as basic to life. There's probably some passage in Washington's writings that makes that or a similar statement.

But did the Founding Fathers really mean for there to be a state religion? Obviously not, but Mrs. Palin carefully doesn't say that. But her supporters will clearly draw that conclusion, and furthermore, that the state religion that should be established is whatever the current style is amongst the fundy/evangelical types, subject to the whims of who's up and who's down at any particular moment. The represents the deathless, immutable ground of belief in these circles. At least today.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Only, it is NOT beyond dispute about the Founding Fathers being

believers.

Among those who signed the Declaration were ministers - who would be quite mainstream, not fundies, today; 'deists', who today might better be called agnostics as "god" was the only explanation they had for the founding of the universe, but whatever "god" was he had been little in evidence since the genesis; a couple flat out atheists; and a good many who really didn't give it much thought one way or another.

The leadership of the colonies were educated at the height of the Enlightenment, and were as well versed in the Rights of Man as they were in the Bible. Many of the premier philosophers of the Enlightenment were atheists, and a cornerstone of Enlightenment beliefs was the scientific method, which begins with 'question everything'.

Now, if you consider the 'founding fathers' to be the religiously insane freaks on the Mayflower, that might hold true, but they founded one colony of many, not the nation.

[gratuitous]

15. Except when you use the word "believers"

It takes in pretty much the entire range of "belief." Does "believer" mean exclusively the conservative fundamentalists? Of course not. Does it mean that to the people Palin was addressing? Almost for sure, with some grudging exceptions carved out for some of the more conservative sectarian folks. When one considers that fundamentalism is a relatively new phenomenon, taking root in the late 19th century, and growing quite rapidly beginning in the mid-20th century, it's obvious to anyone who is aware of history (which exempts Palin and practically all of her audience) that none of the 18th century figures under the rubric of Founding Fathers could have possibly been the kind of Bible thumpers and cross wavers who make up Palin's audience.

Palin (or more probably, whoever's writing her speeches) avoids the conundrum entirely by lumping everyone under the term "believers." If you or I called her on it, she'd be able to weasel away from it by saying that most certainly the colonials in question believed in God or something we would recognize as an expression of God. To her audience - and they don't care about the distinctions or the factual inaccuracies - Palin's use of the word "believers" has a definite and quite different meaning, and they hear from her that the Founding Fathers were just like them.

[Festivito]

18. I'd think she's being fed by a think tank for hot button promotion.

This is a hot button. It riles the religious. I think they might have this as backup for waning abortion and anti-gay support that will soon completely die.

They need another hot button issue to keep the troops writing letters to politicians and newspapers.

I currently disagree with most DUers on how to thwart this issue that leads to ugly DU fights. So, I'll stop here.

[HipChick]

16. Keith O is going to do a spot on this tonight...

[Martin Eden]

17. GOD and COUNTRY

Unfortunately, Palin ain't failin' at drapin herself in the flag while clutching a bible.

It's the FIRST REFUGE of that scoundrel, and a lot of dunderheads don't see what's beneath the cloak.

[Pharlo]

19. She reminds me of Eva Peron -

without the inteligence, charisma, and compassion of Ms Peron.