How Dan Rather Got Hoodwinked (and was forced out of the MSM)...

[Indi Guy]

Dan Rather had seen the original memos of Bush's "Reserve" record.

Rather stood behind the exact text of the memos. What Dan didn't know was that the memos were claverly retyped with formatting that didn't exist upon the creation of the original memos.

Dan Rather got framed

[madokie]

1. karl rove was/is the guilty man in this too

[Submariner]

2. Karen Hughes got into Dubya's Texas files and scrubbed them

just before Junior's election steal so there would be no discovery by the press. A lot of manipulation by the corrpt Bush machine went on.

What goes around comes around for Rather. He doesn't like the way he was pushed out of CBS, probably as much as Walter Cronkite did not like the way he was pushed out of the CBS anchor chair by Rather, who was quite full of himself. I didn't like seeing Cronkite go the way he did, so I have little sympathy for Rather.

[Indi Guy]

3. I'm not into emotion I'm into fact

Fact - Rather was framed right before the 2004 election.

Dispute this if you like, but don't emotionalize the issue.

[madokie]

6. Scoot over

I want to sit next to you :-)
Peace bro'

We are brothers when it comes right down to it you know

[KittyWampus]

15. No, it was Harriet Meirs.

[chollybocker]

4. Dan Rather was screwn royally.

He's still a little nuts, though.

What's the Frequency, Kenneth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtxz4yV_-3g&feature=related

[XOKCowboy]

5. I got to tell him that personally...

I was flying to Kansas City in First Class. I didn't pay any attention to any of the other passengers until we were got to the gate. He was sitting in the seat right in front of me! While we were waiting for the door to open I introduced myself, shook his hand and told him I thought he'd gotten screwed. He laughed and said thanks. A couple others in First Class also shook his hand but you could see the look of contempt on a few of the "suits".

Heck of a nice guy and I miss him on the evening news.

[Indi Guy]

7. Do you think my OP is only about Dan Rather...

...or something far larger?

[PinkFloyd]

8. Am I the only one who wishes Rather would move to MSNBC?

I think he'd put on a great show there.

[crazyjoe]

9. let it go, he fucked up and he ended up on universal HD for it.

[baldguy]

10. What always gets lost in the retelling of Rather's downfall

That no matter what the provenance of the memos is - the central facts of his report: that Bush failed his medical exam, was removed from flight status & when AWOL, and yet got an honorable discharge while others doing similar things were charged with crimes, served time in prison & got dishonorable discharges, were supported by other documentary evidence & eye witness accounts and were essentially correct.

[Indi Guy]

11. Exactly, and what's even worse...

...is that someone deserving of W's position, but w/o his connections, was likely sent off to war -- and that this scenario was repeated thousands of times for the sons of the "elite."

[Winterblues]

24. Bush* did NOT fail his medical exam

He REFUSED to take it even after being ORDERED to do so. He was removed from flight status simply because Bush* refused a Direct Order to take his annual Flight Physical.. Of that there is no doubt what-so-ever..

[rcrush]

12. Dan Rather has a good show on HDNet

Just because you people wont watch it doesn't mean it isnt good news. He probably has one of the best shows out there.

[Common Sense Party]

13. Who retyped them, and why?

[librechik]

14. bull, It was merely demonstrated that the model typewriter used was indeed manufactured

and used in the era the incident happened. The other side claimed it was a fake because such typewriter fonts did not exist in 1973 (or whenever) They were wrong. But they had already blatted their lie so loudly that when the actual forensic evidence came in much later, nobody paid any attention. The damage was already done. You will still find many who claim Rather forged that letter. Wrong. The letter was good evidence--but will never be presented in court, thanks to Karl Rove's lobbying and dirty tricks.

[KittyWampus]

16. No, the secretary that typed the original memos was interviewed by Rather and she said

Yes, she typed memos LIKE the ones Rather presented to the public but not those exact ones. The ones Rather used had a slight variation in terminology not consistent with Air National Guard.

[DefenseLawyer]

19. And remember

Some obscure blogger from Atlanta, Buckhead Bob or whatever, immediately pointed out this supposed typewriter problem, right on cue and his obscure blog was miraculously reported on across the media instantly.

[Qutzupalotl]

22. And Buckhead by his own admission

couldn't tell the difference between Palatino and Times New Roman. That should have been a red flag right there. Yet people quoted him endlessly as some kind of authority.

[paulsby]

20. riiiiiiiiiiiiiight

the letter just happened to be in the default font and settings of microsoft word which any nimrod with a minute (and plenty of bloggers did so) could have figured out, but it was actually creatted on a typewriter in 1973

suuuuuuuuuuuuuure

[Qutzupalotl]

21. Not true

The memos are not in Times Roman. And both superscripting and proportional spacing were available on typewriters of the time.

If you look closely at the superimposition of the memos with the Word version, the characters don't match.

[paulsby]

23. CBS' hired expert said they were Times New Roman

THEIR expert...

i quote...

"Tytell concluded ... that (i) the relevant portion of the Superscript Exemplar was produced on an Olympia manual typewriter, (ii) the Killian documents were not produced on an Olympia manual typewriter and (iii) the Killian documents were produced on a computer in Times New Roman typestyle the Killian documents were not produced on a typewriter in the early 1970s and therefore were not authentic."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy#Findings
Times New Roman, not Times Roman, fwiw.

that's THEIR expert lol

[Qutzupalotl]

26. Then they should fire their expert.

[paulsby]

27. because he didn;'t come to the conclusion you like

if there's ever a better example of prejudice and cognitive dissonance than you just displayed, i'm not aware

goshdarn those pesky facts

[Qutzupalotl]

28. No, because they can't tell Times New Roman from a typewriter.

[paulsby]

30. and you can't admit when you are wrong

even THEIR expert says its times new roman

but you know everything

face it. rather screwed himself

[Qutzupalotl]

31. You don't know what you're talking about.

http://imrl.usu.edu/bush_memo_study/supporting_material/

[librechik]

34. scuse me--by "their" you mean CBS, the guys that wanted to FIRE Rather

You keep saying "Their Expert as if that person is especially capable of honesty or something. I have found CBS, in this case, to be a lying, obfuscating and evidence faking witness. Whereas Rather seems to be truthful and a victim of a more powerful entity out to destroy him.

[librechik]

33. CBS's expert--which was TRYING to delete Dan Rather

yes--I believe them rather than extant evidence.

NOT

[starroute]

25. I agree -- total bull

There were a lot of threads on this here. I myself went over those memos with a fine-tooth comb and compared them to books I have which were set on an IBM composer in the 60's. They were very similar.

I also noted that on several of the memos the typed heading at the top was both off center and slightly slanted compared to the rest of the text -- suggesting that somebody had created a template and made multiple photocopies to use as letterhead.

Postings at other sites noted that different occurrences of the same letter were not always identical but were sometimes slightly distorted. This could never happen with a computer -- but it does happen with typed letters, where each key leaves a slight dent in the paper that modifies how the next key strikes.

So Dan Rather may have been had -- but those letters were xeroxes of authentic 1972 originals.

[Gold Metal Flake]

17. Roger Stone was a part of the scam, was he not?

[paulsby]

18. dan rather screwed himself

no due diligence because he wanted to believe the memo was real, and he paid the price

he screwed himself

[Gaedel]

29. I woulda said, "Dan, it's too good to be true."

1. Memos like these do not go into the official personnel records. These are "side drawer" which the rater and reviewer keep in the file drawer of their individual desk. Two copies would have been made (rather than the six or seven of normal correspondence. One copy for the recipient and one copy for the writer.

2. The normal course of action is to destroy any such correspondence six months to a year after the subject departs the unit. In no case would the writer or recipient retain the files after they themselves departed the job.

3. Bush was told to get a physical (which he did not do). In consequence, he was removed from flight status (which is documented).

4. In reserve components (national guard and reserve) procedures, Bush was placed in a status of "failure to perform" which has the administrative penalty of transfer from a drilling unit to the standby reserve. If the individual (Bush) has not completed his military obligation at the time of transfer, he MAY (at the discretion of the service)be ordered to involuntary active duty for a period of up to two years. At this point, "failure to perform" with its admin penalties becomes AWOL with criminal penalties if the individual does not report.

5. In the case of Bush, this all came to light just as the services were cutting back from their Vietnam peaks. The services were involuntarily releasing officers to meet reduced year end strengths set by Congress in the budget. The Air Force didn't want to bring an officer on active duty who was only qualified to fly a plane that was non-existent in the active force and whose flight status had been revoked.

6. Bush joined a lot of his compatriots who had pulled strings to get into the reserves to avoid the hazards of active duty. When the hazards dissipated, many of them skipped out on their reserve obligations with impunity because the services were in no position to take them into active duty which was the only penalty for skipping out on the reserve.

[paulsby]

32. my favorite part is that the guy who faxed it to CBS

then supposedly destroyed the ORIGINAL

this is almost as good as the whole mormon thang

[Festivito]

35. So much of this seems to have gone under the bridge. /nt