Who Are These Immigrants That America So Fears?

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

Who Are These Immigrants That America So Fears?
posted with permission from http://sane-ramblings.blogspot.com/2010/05/who-are-these-immigrants-america-fears.html

The U.S. spends a fortune building extensive Berlin type walls, as the Soviet Union once did, while aggressively patrolling its borders and ports against undocumented workers. Arizona is even trying to suspend the protections of the U.S. Constitution in an attempt to rid itself of them.

Who are these people who so frighten us Americans?

The next time you bite into a piece of fruit or eat a vegetable, think about who harvested your food. The next time you enter a clean office building or hospital or a hotel room, ask yourself who did the cleaning.

The next time you admire a fancy home's lawn and landscaping, the next time you enjoy a restaurant meal or get your car washed or see children well cared for by nannies, go up to the people who devote themselves to this work and introduce yourself. Then you'll know who they are.

They're people like you and me, except a lot poorer and less educated. They too have children to feed and bills to pay. They too have dreams, but because extreme poverty at home and jobs here brought them to the U.S., unlike many of us, they will work long hours doing jobs many people find disgusting or frightening.

As home health care workers, they take care of those unable to care for themselves, including if need be, with diapers and baths and by sitting up all night with them.

They work in our slaughter houses, wading into blood and gutting and processing en masse dead animals which become the food we put on our tables. Of course we don't want to think about the people who do this work nor how animals become our fried chicken, hamburgers, steak, lamb chops, ham and hot dogs.

As undocumented workers, most don't have medical insurance and may not even be paid minimum wage. But it gets worse. In exchange for citizenship, they will even fight our wars, dying or being maimed in distant lands.

What thank you do undocumented workers receive? If they get caught, they're thrown out and if they don't get caught, they're looked down upon as sub-human. What kind of a society treats people like that?

What kind of a society spends stunning sums of money on weapons, wars and bailouts yet attacks largely defenseless undocumented immigrants, depriving them of basic human needs, including dignity and respect? If we are silent in the face of this injustice, what does that say about you and me? We must raise our voices on behalf of those who do so much for us, for we could make a real difference.

On a plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty are these words: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Those are the ideals of a great and compassionate nation, and a nation largely built upon the hopes, the hearts and the sweat of immigrants. It is they who led America into becoming the envy of the world and they who are the foundation of our future.

[damntexdem]

1. It's mostly these Europeans who have been showing up for about 400 years.

Without them, everything would be fine.

;-)

[AuntPatsy]

2. frankly I fear the religious sects regardless of location more than any other group...

hell even the hells angels are not as threatening..

[Chulanowa]

3. The brown ones

Ever heard any xenophobic ravings about those motherfucking Belgians and their goddamned waffles?

Ever heard any xenophobic ravings about those motherfucking Mexicans and their goddamned burritos?

See the difference?

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

7. I think you hit the nail on the head. nt

[pintobean]

8. No, no and no. n/t

[Igel]

10. Absolutely.

I mean, all things being equal we'd hear actually hear about the 400k Belgians in New Jersey doing all the scut work, pouring across the border, opening Waffle Houses and causing us to drink white beer with all that coriander.

We'd hear about the 12 million illegal Belgian immigrants in the US, with ballots and signs in Walloon and Belgian French and the obligatory trilingual classrooms. Septante and nonante instead of soixante-dix and quatre-vingt-dix. Quel horreur!

You're right. We never hear xenophobic ravings about the Belgians, but we do hear about the Mexicans. Gotta be skin color.

Why, we should ship the 12 million Belgians back. I mean, that's actually *more* than the population of Belgium used to be. Now it must be empty, just waiting for those Dutch to squat there.


Wait! Coriander? Why, coriander's cilantro. And cilantro used to be a really popular in European cuisine, centuries ago before it was imported to Mexico. (All but displacing culantro, which is native.) Los belgios and les Mexiques *must* be in cahoots.

[Chulanowa]

11. So you think it's purely a matter of volume?

Please don't make the "I only dislike illegals!" argument, because there's not a single fucking person on this board, or any others, that can point at a guy and go "he's an illegal!"

[pintobean]

4. The Soviets built their walls

to keep people in, not out.

[Chulanowa]

42. So what happened if a West German tried to get over the wall?

Same thing that would happen to an East German.

What happens if a South Korean tries to get through the DMZ?

Walls go both ways, though I suppose pretending they're one-way is a nice point of propaganda.

[pintobean]

46. Stating a fact is not propaganda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall

The wall on our southern border is not there to keep Americans in.
The answers to two questions will tell you why a wall was built:
Who built it?
In which direction would the flow be without it?

The DMZ is completely different. It's a negotiated buffer zone between two hostile nations.

[Scuba]

5. Thank you for this thoughtful and thought provoking message

[kctim]

6. What kind of nation

has laws to protect its people, but ignores those laws based on emotion?

Who are these "immigrants" that Americans so fear? The illegal ones with no respect for our laws.

You want open borders? Then pass a law and open them up to everybody.

[Chulanowa]

12. So which ones are illegal?

Please, give us concrete examples of people in your community you are 100% certain are illegal, that have justified your seething, festering hatred for their misdemeanor offense.

Yes. Misdemeanor. If you're going to bang your pots together about following the law, you should at least know what the law is. Illegal immigration is basically a version of jaywalking. Do you get this riled up about people who overstay at parking meters, too?

[kctim]

15. ANYBODY

from another country who has not followed immigration procedures to enter this country lawfully, has broken our laws and is here illegally. It is not my job to know who is here illegally, it is our governments and I expect them to uphold the laws they create, not ignore them. You don't like the law, get it changed to suit your emotional reaction.

I do know what the law is, but sadly for your point, I also know there are paths that MUST be followed if one wishes to legally live in this country or become one of her citizens.

What happens when one committs a misdemeanor? Do they not pay a price for their illegal action? Why yes they do.
You get a ticket for jaywalking and you get deported for illegally entering our country. Change the law to say hugs instead of deported and you may have a legal leg to stand on.

[Chulanowa]

35. Don't give me that shit

You want to get your hate on about someone, you better fucking be able to point that person out in a crowd. It's not your job to know who's here illegally? Then why the fuck are you acting like it is? Don't talk to me about emotional reaction when this is the way you act, man. It's ridiculous, "I fucking HATE people who I don't know who are!!!"

And seriously, again, do you have THAT much emotional baggage about other misdemeanors? do you act this way about people who don't scoop after their dog? Do you harbor so much anger and virulence towards people who've got an ounce of pot on them?

'Cause it looks to me like you're making an ultra-special case for this particular one.

[kctim]

38. The only one getting their hate on

is you with your nonsensicle circular ramblings. Supporting the law does not mean one hates the criminal who breaks said law.

Could you look around a Presidential event and point out who is there illegally? No you cannot and it is not your job to do so. But guess what sparky? It is the job of government officials and the vast majority expect those government officials to do their job and keep out those who were not invited.

If you think it looks like I am making some kind of "ultra-special" case for unlawful people only in this case, then you need glasses. There are laws I must follow with punishments if I choose not to and I expect others to abide by those same rules.
If it is unlawful for you to not scoop up after your dog, don't bitch to me when you are fined for not doing so. If an ounce of pot will land you in jail, don't whine and bitch to me if you get busted and end up in jail. And tell you what, if I get fined or arrested for breaking the law and speeding, I won't bitch about how wrong that law is because I was in a hurry and it shouldn't apply to me.

FWIW, playing the hate card is a sure sign ones argument doesn't have a leg to stand on and is usually not brought out until after one has exhausted their best material. Surely you have better material than what you have displayed so far?

[Chulanowa]

40. I play the hate card when I see hate

This was your initial statement:

"Who are these "immigrants" that Americans so fear? The illegal ones with no respect for our laws."

But you can't identify any such people. You admit as much. Yet you fear and hate them. You have no idea who they are, but you're angry about them, and want them punished "to the max" - which is, without a doubt, something you would never advocate for yourself or members of your family, despite your claims to be a starry-eyed boyscout. "Sorry son, but you knew that candy bar didn't belong to you, it's a year in jail for you. Lawyer? Hell no, I'm asking the judge to give you the maximum penalty, son." Not only that, but I have no doubt in mind that you do not exhibit this level of passion, dislike, fear and yes, hate, for someone who commits an equivilant misdemeanor. Maybe if you got busy making impassioned rants about those god damned jaywalkers... (while of course admitting you don't know who they are!)

"Playing the hate card" is wholly appropriate when the person being spoken to is predicating their argument on hate. Your stance is ultimately irrational - a rational person does not demand maximum penalties all the time for every case, a rational person does not fear people they cannot identify, a rational person does not on one hand claim they wouldn't complain about getting called out on their speeding, then complains about getting called out for their obvious neuroses.

[kctim]

45. You are grasping hard

just to see hate in my statement in order to support your point.

I don't fear illegals, I don't hate illegals, I am not angry about them and nothing in my statements show that I do. You project that I do only because you cannot refute the fact that they have broken the law and are in our country illegally. You have been beaten by the facts, so you present an emotional plea for support by playing the hate card.

I hope you can comprehend this, so please listen closely. My argument is predicated on the law. Your stance is invalid, so you naturally go into survival mode and make it about hate so as to avoid the facts. Sad, but typical.

Maximum enforcement, not maximum penalties. Yet another example of your inability to comprehend.

[lumberjack_jeff]

17. Every time a poster says "they work hard"

They mean; "they work harder than white people". If you question that, they call you a racist.

Their whole schtick is doublespeak. "I'm sticking up for labor when I cheer for open borders. It also enables me to buy really cheap fair-trade, organic lettuce."

[EFerrari]

19. Actually, *that* is the irrational argument -- equating

an administrative infraction that doesn't affect you in any way with "no respect for our laws" when it's been shown over and over that undocumented immigrants don't commit any more crime than any other group.

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. On the contrary.

100% of illegal immigrants have violated federal law.

[EFerrari]

25. See?

[kctim]

24. Puleez

Knowingly violating a law is showing no respect for the law and you pay the price when you get caught not respecting that law.
If an immigrant is "undocumented," they have showed no respect for our laws of entry and have willingly broken them. That makes them here illegally, which is a crime.

If you don't like the law, change it. But until you do, I expect the law of the land to be enforced to the max.

[EFerrari]

26. No, it's not a crime. That's wrong. Just like the teabaggers

you are conflating administrative and criminal law.

[kctim]

34. Dance all you want

but you cannot change the fact that lawful entry is law and unlawful entry is breaking the law. Whether you wish to acknowledge that breaking the law is a crime or not, is irrelevent.

Unlawful. Illegal. People can make up their own mind what those words mean.

[EFerrari]

39. If you don't know the difference between administrative and criminal law

you don't get to redefine them as the same thing. LOL

[Chulanowa]

37. To the max, huh?

Maximum penalty for more than 4 ounces of marijuana is five years in prison. You support this in every single case?
Maximum penalty for an 18 year old getting busy with their seventeen year old girlfriend / boyfriend is between twenty years in prison and life, depending on what state you're in. You're supporting this in every single case?
Maximum penalty for downloading an MP3 file is five years in prison and twenty five thousand dollars in fines. You support this maximum in all cases, no exceptions, nothing less.

How many laws have you broken? How many do you know you've broken? if you've EVER driven without a seatbelt, downloaded music, recorded a movie, ridden a bike without a helmet, claimed yourself as a dependent on your W-2, fished without a license, smoked marijuana, had a beer before you were 21, or done "odd jobs" without reporting your income... you are as much of a as, and sometimes more of one, than anyone jumping the border. If you've ever done any of the bolded ones, you have broken federal law, and the FBI, by your own estimation, needs to kick down your door and give you the absolute maximum penalties possible.

[kctim]

43. Enforced to the max

meaning that authorities should be enforcing laws to the max and those found guilty have no right to complain about their punishment. I support that in every single case.

Sigh. Yes, I have broken laws myself. 1% hardly makes one a saint. And I would have paid the price if I would have been caught, no matter how you or I felt about the law that was broken. No matter how sorry you feel for those who broke the law, it is a law for a reason.

Luckily, we live in a country where evidence is required, so you're examples are pointless. We have to be caught or proof has to exist to show that we have broken the law. Illegal aliens however, are themselves the evidence that is needed to prove they have broken the law. 24/7, 365.

[Chulanowa]

49. Soooo... wait

You've broken laws and haven't been punished for it. But you DEMAND others be punished to the absolute maximum extent possible.

You also say "there needs to be evidence" but at the same time admit you cannot identify illegals.

I think we're done here. Maybe you should join the Arizona state patrol. Sounds like a dream job for you.

[kctim]

50. We were done

when you started debating and arguing with yourself rather than what was actually being said.

My fault though. I had a sense you did not like to face facts, but was hoping it was just the medium we are using.
Oh well, live and learn I guess.

[Saphire]

9. His name is Carlos. He's been married to Donella for about 9 years.

They have two little girls under 6 years old who were born here and are American citizens. They all go to church on Saturdays without fail. All Carlos wants is to be able to buy a good car, and a little home for his family, maybe one with a real floor. He just wants his girls to be healthy and to have a good education.

Carlos loves Mexico. He misses his home. He's aware of the crime and corruption there, and is honestly afraid to be there right now. He's heartbroken at the condition of his homeland. Anyone who's listened to Mexican music knows he shares this pain with millions of others.

He is one of the kindest men I've ever known. He's also one of the hardest working people I've met.

In other words, he's just like all of us.

[Berserker]

13. Then

Come here legally.
On a plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty are these words: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Those are the ideals of a great and compassionate nation, and a nation largely built upon the hopes, the hearts and the sweat of immigrants. It is they who led America into becoming the envy of the world and they who are the foundation of our future.
Immigrants NOT illegal Immigrants. Are we still the envy of the world?

[pampango]

14. Actually the inscription on the Statue of Liberty makes no distinction between legal and illegal

immigrants. It refers only to "your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost".

Since that description almost precisely describes the "illegal immigrants" of our era, it is lucky for you that the Statue's inscription is just a nice sentiment (like the Declaration of Independence), not a real law. The irony is that most who rail against "illegal immigration" would also oppose new laws that expanded legal immigration significantly ("Give me your tired, your poor...). Makes one wonder whether the real issue is that they're "illegal" or that they're "immigrants".

Here's the whole inscription:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
' With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. You DO know what Ellis island was, don't you? n /t

[pampango]

21. You DO know that the Statue of Liberty was completed years before Ellis Island became

a federal immigration station, don't you?

Does the fact that an immigration station was subsequently built next to the Statue somehow change the meaning of the words in the inscription?

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. Yes. Four, exactly.

The statue of liberty was dedicated in 1886. Ellis Island became the federal immigration processing station in 1890.

It's fairly clear what "immigration" meant to them.

[pampango]

33. "It's fairly clear what "immigration" meant to them." - Them, who? The author of the inscription or

the "them" who decided to put an federal immigration station next to the Statue six years (1892, actually) later. If you have some insight into what the author, Emma Lazarus, meant in the inscription, by all means provide it. To me it is an idealized expression regarding an openness to immigration in the era it was written. The fact that the Statue of Liberty was built on the site of a fort (Fort Wood) or that another federal building was later placed next to it, doesn't change the intent of the inscription. It is simply an expression of the thoughts of the author (and sanctioned by the government at the time or the inscription would have been changed) and has no force of law.

[Chulanowa]

41. Do you?

Seriously. Allow me to explain it to you.

More than ten million immigrants were processed through Ellis Island. Know how long it took on to process an immigrant, on average?

Two hours.

Two hours. You wait at the station for a day or two, then you get to talk to an official, and you're on a barge to the mainland in two hours.

The ancestors of over a hundred million Americans got citizenship in less than a day after applying. Only two percent were turned away, primarily because they were suffering diseases such as syphilis or tuberculosis.

Now, I fully support this sort of immigration. You show up at the border, demonstrate that you're not carrying ebola and aren't packing bombs, sign your name, welcome aboard, citizen. Question is... do you?

[LanternWaste]

22. I'm afraid that these days it seems...

I'm afraid that these days, it seems that our chance for individual success and personal gain for those born on this side of the imaginary red and blue lines that exist nowhere but our imagination trumps altruism and compassion for the hungry and the poor.

We certainly don't want the tired, the poor, or even the occasional huddled mass to reduce our chance for that success... unless of course, one's papers are in order.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. I can't adequately express how sick I am of this "jobs americans won't do" bullshit. n/t

[GoneOffShore]

27. Not for the money those jobs pay, we won't

The lack of unions and adequate wage protection coupled with extreme greed means that those industries want wages and worker protection kept at the absolute minimum.

And of course the American desire for not paying what food actually costs.

Are you off working in those industries perchance?

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. Wages aren't set by government fiat.

For all practical purposes, they are set by supply and demand. Unions work because they restrict the supply of labor. In my area, the official minimum wage is about $9 per hour, but I guarantee that trees get planted for far less, because the pool of workers willing to do that job is limitless.

[Romulox]

28. Do the people that write this not realize that most of us don't have nannies and gardeners?

Just massively out of touch.

[Luminous Animal]

30. The vast majority work in fields and slaughterhouses.

Both, of course, were also mentioned in the OP.

[Romulox]

31. Actually, I quite doubt this. What about the restaurant industry and construction?

"Both, of course, were also mentioned in the OP."

As were nannies and gardeners. :hi:

[tjwash]

29. The US economy would absolutely crash and burn without undocumented labor

And we aren't just talking farm labor...we are talking construction, restaurants, hotel chains; just about anything that needs someone to do the dirty work in. These places would collapse in weeks if they were forced to hire employees, and provide subsistence wages with benefits.

The whole corporate media "outrage machine" on the illegal immigration "issue," is just feeding the distraction, that this country was founded on slave labor, and if you transpose the costs of the costs of having undocumented workers dig your trenches for laying electrical conduit on a new batch of tract houses, it pretty much resolves to about what plantation owners in the south paid to feed and house their slaves.

When I was a younger man, I did a lot of construction work as a UBEW electrician, and always thought that it was awfully peculiar, that la-migra would stage their massive raids on construction sites, just about the time that the money to pay the manual-labor was getting ready to be paid out. These assholes have always worked hand in hand with the owners of these places. The latest batch of outrage in AZ, just goes to whip up that righteous indignation that Americans love to have about this type of stuff. Fucking the folks that are least able to defend themselves is the American way you know, and the folks from down south can watch from the bus window, as they get yanked, handcuffed, and deported after working a whole week for free, as some fat-lily white-flag waving asshole that is too lazy to do that kind of hard-dirty work themselves, tells them that they deserve to get kicked out, and it was their own damn fault.

Then they'll bring in the next batch...and start allllll over again the next day.

[Elder Hippie]

36. Social Security, etc., would collapse, too...

The dirty little secret is that, in addition to businesses wanting cheap labor and the unions wanting new voters, Social Security would be broke except for the fact that there are people paying into it who will NEVER collect from it.

The sad fact is that this country NEEDS an exploited underclass of SLAVES to keep the bankrupt system temporarily propped up.

America is being built on the backs of illegal aliens, just like the pyramids were constructed by SLAVES!

We must demand and IMMEDIATE executive order to FORCE businesses to pay illegals the same wages as citizens!

To do anything else is inhuman.

"All men are created equal"...unless we need you to work a dollar a day because you have no choice that is!

Sheesh!

[fleabert]

44. one correction: they can and do fight in our wars without getting citizenship...

during vietnam, i know people who were migrant workers, here legally by the time they were in school (summers spent working the fields) and were told they had to sign up for selective service at 18. they did. they were drafted. they were not citizens of the US- they joined the army on the recommendation of a school counselor who said they would get citizenship that way- guess what? denied. tour done, see ya later! oh, sorry about the serving in a foreign army revoking your mexican citizenship thing- whoops!

they were among the lucky ones- the unlucky died in Vietnam.

[killbotfactory]

47. My rights have never been infringed upon by the act of someone crossing a border.

Whether or not they did it without official permission.

[Dems to Win]

48. No such thing as a job Americans won't do

There is no such thing as a job a U.S. citizen won't do -- there are only jobs we won't do AT THE POVERTY WAGES BEING OFFERED.

I am in favor of living wage jobs. Support for unlimited immigration and amnesty for illegal immigrants is directly opposed to the goal of living wage jobs.

There was a time when an unskilled person could make a living wage and support a family by working at a hard, manual labor job. Now, those jobs are filled by illegal immigrants at poverty wages.

Does 'everybody' really benefit from this? How about American-born low skilled workers? NOT AT ALL.

Agriculture does not "need" poverty-level workers. Their products can be harvested by legal residents making a decent wage. America needs living wage jobs.

Support living wage jobs! Demand vigorous enforcement of current immigration and fair labor laws NOW!!

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

51. The author responds to your points....

The living wage premise is fine in the abstract, but not in reality. There are jobs most Americans don't want to do unless it pays far more than a "living wage," whatever a "living wage" means.

For example, slaughtering and gutting animals sickens many people and if they ever took such a job in the first place, they won't stay if they can find any other employment. Slaughter houses are always looking to hire, and often they hire poor immigrants because they desperately need the work and they will stay.

Then there are migrant worker jobs, that more Americans would do for a far higher wage. The problem is the public won't pay far more for produce. The way Cesar Chavez dealt with that was to go public and explain the living wage concept and the cost of basic benefits. At the wage and benefit levels he sought, the price of grapes, lettuce, etc. went up slightly. But if a "living wage" that would attract vast numbers of Americans to do that back breaking work had been paid, those same people might not buy the produce or would buy it in smaller amounts because they and other consumers would say it's too expensive.

Have a nice afternoon.