Worst paying college degrees.

[rrneck]

Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket? Here's why:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/06/the-worst-paying-college_n_566518.html#s88543

How much is your college degree actually worth? Each year, PayScale compiles a list of how lucrative most majors are. We took a look at the list's bottom half, and the news is not so good. But hey, a job's a job. And to our nation's public servants: we salute you.

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Jesus, I've got degrees in three of them.

And I wouldn't trade them for anything. Liberal arts, fine arts, etc. have taught me to think and to imagine. You can't get that with business and technical degrees.

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. Thinking and imagining require degrees? n/t

[no_hypocrisy]

4. No, they are derived from your disciplines.

[KansDem]

9. So does understanding God's Word

I've always found it ironic that God's Word, the Bible, requires 1,000 pages and someone with a degree to explain it...

[rrneck]

20. No

but learning to express them with formal coherence does.

[lumberjack_jeff]

44. The post to which I replied was a lackluster example.

I've not seen much correlation here between skill in expressing logical thought and claimed educational attainment.

[rrneck]

49. That's because

the fine arts are notoriously arational.

Most of the degrees mentioned are less about objective facts and more about a theory of mind. Social services, the arts, hospitality and tourism, languages and theology are about relationships between people with expectations about what others may think and feel. They are about shared experience with others rather than the relationship between people and the physical world.

It's not about established facts, but experiences. It's squishy. And any physical object that is the result of that cultural research will be squishy as well.

[WinkyDink]

38. No, and neither does tinkering with wires, or looking at stars, or selling cars. But the Lib

Arts DO help people grasp allusions such as this:
the world is too much with us.

There's a reason a child can be a math savant but cannot be a brilliant novelist.

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. Why allude when you can "say"?

[Codeine]

5. Wow. All this time I've been incapable of thinking or imagining

because I lack the appropriate papers.

It's as if my whole world just crumbled to dust before my eyes.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

22. That almost sounded like a simile...

Can I see your liberal arts degree please? Otherwise I'm going to have to ask you to rephrase to something more appropriate for us unimaginative science folk.

[WinkyDink]

39. it's putting those thoughts into their rightful place as peers with others. But how would one know?

[Gormy Cuss]

7. Liberal arts and fine arts aren't vocational diplomas and it's foolish to compare the two.

Technical degrees are designed to prepare you for a specific field and should produce $$$, otherwise it's a huge waste of money. There are risks inherent with training only for a narrow career path degree like CS or engineering -- one, learning that you don't really like working in that field, or discovering that your field is shrinking because of changes in the economy such as international outsourcing.

A good liberal arts program prepares you to seek your profession after college with a more open view to possibilities, and for many people that's a better way to go.

[snooper2]

16. I thought liberal arts programs are mostly secondary studies...

While you pursue a career in your field of choice...

Artists are born, not trained :)


Of course I just got an Associate degree in Telecomunications taking 1/3 the required classes while a senior in high school...fuck another 4 years after graduation.

Only problem I had with my first "real" job was trying to rent a car at 20 years old as I was flying across the country installing multiplexers and channel banks. Good thing we had a special agreement with Avis :rofl:

[rrneck]

21. Artists are born

because everyone is an artist. But you have to be trained to make art just as you have to be trained to do anything else well.

Don't believe that artist as inspired shaman crap. Anybody can do it, you just have to learn how.

[Marr]

75. Yep.

It's a skill like any other. I switched over from Fine Art to commercial illustration in college, because that loosey-goosey attitude was the prevailing one in my university's Fine Arts program. They treated class as a time to explore your feelings instead of an actual instructional period. Drove me nuts.

You're not supposed to bend rules until you've learned them, know what I mean? It's like telling someone to sing without bothering to teach them the language first.

[Gormy Cuss]

25. Liberal arts degrees are supposed to prepare you with the core skills to pursue any profession.

As mentioned above, the emphasis is on critical thinking and imagination within a framework of learning in a variety of subjects. Liberal arts programs can inform students on career paths simply by introducing them to that vast array of information. Let's face it, most people have no idea of the wide variety of career paths out there. If you're 17 or 18 and have wanted to be a firefighter since age 5, you don't need a liberal arts degree to prepare you for that choice. If you're like most 17 year olds though you haven't got a clue what you want to be when you grow up (other than not the professions of your parents and other adults you know.) That's where getting a solid yet broad education can make the difference.

You wanted to be in telecom. Taking a short direct path made sense for you at this juncture. That's why there are associates level technical degrees -- it's a short path to the profession you desire. Not all professions have that short path, and many professions have no direct path because they don't require years of coursework in targeted skills. They require critical thinking, flexibility, writing ability, etc. Those are attributes of a good liberal arts program.

[snooper2]

31. I guess I just never understood the coursework of a liberal arts program

I was required to take a couple electives and I took philosophy for a semester and also sociology...spent rest of the time in advanced math courses, semiconductor circuit analysis, AC/DC theory, and a slew of telecom based courses :)

Could you list some of the classes that would encompass a liberal arts major ( for my curiosity )

[Gormy Cuss]

33. English, mathematics,history, sciences, arts, languages,

and within those components subjects such as creative writing, chemistry, economics, etc. What you had as elective choices are instead the core. What an individual takes is influenced by the chosen major and minor (where those are used.) There are usually distribution requirements too (a minimum number of courses in each of several broad disciplines like science, language/lit, history/social sciences.)
A good program forces the students to push beyond their comfort zones to study a broad array of topics.

[WinkyDink]

41. Lib. Arts are ends unto themselves. They comprise HUMANITY'S most profound thoughts.

But yes, if more "journalists" studied Lit and not "Journalism", we'd have more erudite articles.

[sweetloukillbot]

42. My experience as a journalist...

Is that the writers all had English degrees, and the editors all had journalism degrees... English degree here, and currently delivering pizzas after the newspaper industry tanked...

[gauguin57]

48. I was gonna mention journalism as a low-paying degree (though the work can be very fulfilling)

... I have journalism, history and English degrees (and worked a long time in journalism) ...

AND, I'm unemployed. Surprise!

But I wouldn't trade any of my degrees for any amount of money. I have a liberal arts soul (with communications thrown in).

I'd love to teach aesthetics (art history plus philosophy plus literature plus music of various periods of history). I think everyone needs/should want to know at least a bit about his/her cultural history.

maybe in my next life ...

[sweetloukillbot]

64. Yeah the pay sucked bigtime...

But the sheer joy I took in my work made up for it. (I was a music critic for 10 years). Thankfully I'm still able to do a lot of freelance work.

Now I'm back in school working on a tech degree with plans to get a masters in library science down the road.

[WinkyDink]

67. Sure, newspapers have tanked, as have books and news-magazines. Americans are mentally lazy.

But that YOU are not, is not to be lamented.

[WinkyDink]

40. I see you have never studied literature in any depth.

[snooper2]

54. no, I was busy making sure you could originate

and terminate phone calls :)

[WinkyDink]

68. The difference is: I value both.

[lumberjack_jeff]

62. This thread needs more - "my learnin' made me to be smart. yers made you dum." n/t

Educational snobbery. My favorite.

[fujiyama]

60. I wouldn't call CS and engineering "narrow career paths"

Engineering teaches people how to solve problems, think creatively, and understand abstract concepts. Above all, it uses all those skills to ultimately create something of value.

[Gormy Cuss]

71. I wrote that because I know too many former engineers and CS grads

who struggled to translate those degrees into some other career paths. I'm not denigrating the rigorousness of the disciplines, just observing that they do seem to narrow career choices.

[DatManFromNawlins]

78. That's true... English majors make excellent fry cooks

Take that, gainfully employed and licensed engineers!

[TransitJohn]

87. Neither CoSci nor Engineering are narrow

They're both incredibly broad fields. Really huge.

[madmax]

14. You are rich

Bravo to you!! :hug:

[mkultra]

26. thats a laugh. i have a Comp Sci degree

and don't think for one second that this kind of work doesn't require thought and imagination.

[RobinA]

35. Degree in One

plus a job in same that requires a Masters but pays like a Bachelors. Wouldn't trade them either. Job security 'til I keel over, good liberal education, work with actual people on stuff that matters.

[DatManFromNawlins]

77. Apparently they skipped cognitive reasoning in all 3 programs

[no_hypocrisy]

83. I rest my case.

[Romulox]

3. Honestly, I think the salaries are skewed up by outliers.

I think a lot of fine art majors would be thrilled with a starting salary of $35,000, if such a job was guaranteed.

[FLPanhandle]

8. They used the median value so the outliers wouldn't skew it.

[Romulox]

11. Then perhaps geographic grouping is the issue.

I'm sure $35,000 is a pittance in NYC, but here in metro-Detroit, it's a decent salary for a 22 year old.

[Berry Cool]

10. Yeah. I'm sitting there reading about how these careers pay

"a pittance of $33,000 to start" and "a pittance of $35,000" and "a paltry $41,000." In Cleveland, if you tell many people you're earning $41K, they say "Wow, what's it like being rich?"

[Fleshdancer]

6. it breaks my heart to see elementary edu and social work on that list

not just on the list, but the top two. :(

[fishwax]

12. indeed

:(

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. No one becomes a mining engineer because of the non-monetary reward.

I think everyone who seeks a degree in teaching or social work knows what income to expect.

[rrneck]

23. Yep. And I think that's the problem.

Cultural understanding whether through the arts or teaching or understanding and helping others is not valued. Thus, it doesn't pay very well. If you can't make a decent living at it the real talent will go elsewhere for work. Like designing exotic hedge fund dirivitives...

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. It's not undervalued, it's over-sought

People who follow their passion should not be surprised that lots of people are following that same passion. Employers who have an infinite pool of qualified applicants can pay less.

Lucky and rare is the person for whom "designing exotic hedge fund derivatives" is a passion.

[rrneck]

50. I think you're missing the point.

There are lots and lots of ways to make a lot of money, especially if you don't mind screwing people to do it. In fact, through the miracle of corporate risk distribution if one has a talent for delegating responsibility s/he will be quite successful whether they work on Wall Street or at a car dealership.

Assuming responsibility for others doesn't pay because responsibility doesn't pay. So it's hard to make a living making art because anyone in that business has to concern themselves with how other people think and feel. Social work is all about taking responsibility for others. The study of language is the study of mutual understanding. Granted, the hospitality industry is about people, but that's a one way street as well. Anyone in that industry has to have an intimate understanding of the guest, but the guest doesn't have to relate to the staff at all.

Passion for profit is in demand. Obsequious behavior pays. Personal responsibility, intregity and compassion - not so much.

[RobinA]

37. Yup, I Did

So-so pay, but job security bay-beee. Keep treating a large part of the population like sh*t and you'll always need me to scrape 'um off the steam grate so Joe Lawyer doesn't get his shoes dirty on his way to the firm. Or bankruptcy court when he gets laid off and his McMansion comes due.

[tonysam]

19. They're traditionally "female" fields. That explains the lousy pay.

These jobs pay supplemental wages, not family wages.

[Goblinmonger]

34. I'm not sure why elementary ed

is singled out. Elementary teachers are generally on the same pay scale as other levels. Maybe they burn out faster so they are lower on the pay scale on average.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. They are on the same scale but high school teachers generally earn more

because there are more opportunities for extra pay positions in high school - coaching, etc.

[Inspired]

36. Yes, my daughter is a college senior majoring in Early Elementary Ed.

I'm sure that is even worse. She knows she's not in for a big bucks career. This is just want she wants to do. It isn't a calling...she just feels comfortable with this as a profession.

[Romulox]

15. Hard to believe that "English Language and Literature" doesn't figure in that list!

The only use of such a degree is as a pre-req. to grad school. :shrug:

[fishwax]

24. I thought it might make the top 10 too, but you can do much more with an english degree than

just go to graduate school. I've known english/lit students who've gotten jobs in a variety of different fields.

[Romulox]

28. To be fair, I was able to do so, too. Just not the ones I wanted.

E.g. low-level advertising duties at a local industrial concern, and before that technical support to Big 3 suppliers. But then this is Detroit.

[foxfeet]

17. As a retired social worker, it's true that social work pays poorly.

Nobody goes into social work to get rich; one does it because one cares about people. One reason for the low pay scale is social work's history as a women's profession, although nursing has made strides in overcoming that obstacle. Never mind that social workers are routinely verbally abused by clients and the general public or that social workers, particularly in mental health, criminal justice or child protection, are often the victims of physical violence. Such workers merit hazardous duty pay. When you care for the downtrodden, prepare to be downtrodden yourself. There are also many non-tangible rewards. Just enter the field with your eyes wide open.

[Canuckistanian]

18. I was once thinking of being a translator

German, Russian and French. Then I found out how low they're paid. Really low.

Even the best translating jobs in the UN require 5 languages and STILL don't pay as much as a good skilled trade like industrial electrician.

[GreenPartyVoter]

27. Those are jobs done out of love, not for the big bucks. (Not that they aren't worth big bucks.)

[Cleita]

29. What's sad is education and the arts, and I include horticulture in there, are

among those majors. It shows where our priorities are and why there is so much ugly in our lives.

[rrneck]

30. Bingo. nt

[amborin]

32. the rest of the world is ahead of the US in supporting the arts

[sakabatou]

43. I have no degree

But I do art... I guess I'm screwed.

[rrneck]

51. Nope.

You're not screwed. You're human. Keep making it.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

47. I might as well have majored in art like I wanted to.

I got two degrees in "Hard" subjects because it was supposed to make me employable!! HA!!!

BA in Biology (concentration on liberal arts and broad education--the school is such an outstanding liberal arts school they did not offer a BS in Biology at the time) and a Juris Doctor.

Never got a job with either one of them, made me overqualified.

Got the BA THIRTY YEARS AGO. I was told that "America needs more science majors as science teachers" and I couldn't get a job teaching high school biology. I decided that was more BS that they fed us after Sputnik and the space race heated up with the Russians.

Got the J.D. TWENTY FIVE YEARS AGO. Never got a job as a paralegal, although I spent all my working life in the law profession as a legal secretary and court reporter.

FUCK 'EM. Majors are just meaningless. If you're gonna starve, you might as well starve doing something you like to do.

I shoulda gotten that BFA in painting and been a hard core artist for all that good the hard sciences and law did me.

BIG FAT LIES OUR SOCIETY TELLS US. :grr: :banghead:

[rrneck]

52. I hear you.

How many millions more are just like you?

We're real good at "how". We just don't know "why". They don't call it "the humanities" for nothing.

[KansDem]

55. "Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don't Go"

http://chronicle.com/article/Graduate-School-in-the/44846

...wish I'd read this some 30 years ago. :(

[rrneck]

61. Yep.

I'll never get that MFA paid for. But I'd do it again. I started out life as a tractor jockey and wound up an artist. Go figure.

I used to tell students when I was a TA that you may find the reason for life, the universe and everything but the minute that painting crosses the threshold of the studio door it's just another product. And yours is a product with no market.

These days stuff is more important than people. Working with stuff pays, working with people, not so much.

[undeterred]

66. +100

[KansDem]

56. "The Big Lie About the 'Life of the Mind'"

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Big-Lie-About-the-Life-of/63937/

[CBR]

84. Everyone who has graduated in the last three years from the PhD program I am

in has a good job -- professors, think tanks, nonprofit directors... it is the social sciences but still. One of the new grads just landed a position at Villanova and another at Brookings. I do not go to an elite program.

[a la izquierda]

86. Ahh, there is hope

I'll be graduating with a PhD in history next year. I can't wait to get a real job so I can stop making money below the poverty line.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. My ex wife has an M.A. in Fine Arts. Worked her life as a laborer.

I have a B.A. in history, worked as an electrician, anodizer, mail carrier, mail clerk, and counselor.

But, I know who won the battle of Borodino.

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. History? Good. You never know when you'll find yourself a contestant on Jeopardy.

"Be prepared" is my motto. Or in latin, "preparus et IV stuffo" ;)

[WinkyDink]

69. I was. I think many DU'ers have been.

[Rex]

57. Wow my degree falls almost in the middle - history.

I expected it at the bottom with art.

[MkapX]

58. No polly sci?

Im surprised political science wasn't on there..unless you live in a capital of the state their are no jobs for polly sci grads. Unless you plan on going to law school most people use it as a stepping stone to a law degre...about a year after i got my polly sci degree from kent state i could only get a job working customer service for a bank (it sucked!) So i went to a techinal school....and now im working in IT.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

65. I'm convinced politicians should be lawyers and/or poly sci majors.

There are so many idiots out there writing bad legislation -- so bad it gets stopped by a permanent injunction issued by a judge before it goes into effect -- like some of the crap that has come out of Oklahoma lately.

These idiots A) did not go to law school so they don't understand Con Law principles; and B) they did not take a course I took called Legislation which is about how to write clear specific laws that are not void for vagueness or overbroad (the usual problem).

Then there was the law they wrote in Florida that only dealt with the Terry Schiavo family. That was a blatantly unconstitutional law known as a "Bill of Attainder".

:banghead:

And then there's my Senator Cornhole, who used to be a district judge in Houston and SHOULD know better, but doesn't.

:banghead:

There was the time I let my court reporting license lapse because the state board would not take any of my biology or chemistry credits from undergrad, or my law school credits as credit for continuing education. I think it would have added up to 35 years of continuing ed.

They wanted me to explain how EACH course would help me be a better court reporter. Now I cannot imagine two degrees that would be MORE useful than those two to a court reporter, but they were idiots.

I told them that they were just glorified secretaries, and were scared of a truly well educated court reporter like me, and that they could keep their chickenshit little continuing education credits. I let my license lapse back in 1996 and I have not looked back.

I have something like 140 hours of college and 90 hours of law school, which is separate from the AA deree in court reporting.

Then the National Shorthand Reporters Association would not let me put "B.A., J.D." after my name in the National Directory and I told them they had no right to do that if none of them had any regular college, besides the 2 year vocational degree. I told them they could go to hell and that they were obviously afraid of a really well educated court reporter too.

I got a letter from the national president that said "oh a BA is nothing but a law degree is really something". How in the hell would he know a damn thing about either one???


:banghead:

[DatManFromNawlins]

79. I know a guy with a Poly Sci degree from Cornell

He works for a high school dropout who cheats on his taxes.

[Jennicut]

59. I have a degree in Psychology and am getting a certificate in Elementary Education.

Yeah, it does not pay a lot to teach little kids but I LIKE it. At least my husband makes a good living but then he is in a dear God no...Union! He works for Connecticut Light and Power.

[Juche]

70. Wow, only 35k a year?

The worst paying jobs pay 35k a year? I have a degree in a scientific field, I did cancer research in college and would consider myself lucky to find a job with no benefits & no security that pays $13/hr.

I'd love to make 35k a year. You can tell the person who wrote that article has a stable jobs and earns 100k or more.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. Here's mine!

Elementary Education!!!

?1273283466146

[Regret My New Name]

73. 33k for elementary school teachers?

I know entry-level technical positions that pay more than that. :/

*edit* ohh, these are entry-level wages. I'd say mid-thirties to low-forties is about average for most entry level jobs, no?

[AnnieBW]

76. Anything liberal arts

Even back in the '80's, we used to joke that our career training involved asking "do you want fries with that?"

[MilesColtrane]

80. Bachelor of Music here.

The running joke among my school mates was that we were going to keep our music degrees framed in the bathroom with a tiny hammer on a chain.

The caption on the frame would read, "Break Glass In Case of Emergency Toilet Paper Outage".

[Hutzpa]

81. The jerks have finally taken over. n/t

[XemaSab]

82. Dude, if you're really gifted in horticulture

most of your income is not taxed. :hide:

[CBR]

85. It is funny because my Dad has a degree in Electrical Engineering.

He spent 22 years in the Coast Guard as a technician (paid for his degree) then he worked 7 years as an engineer in the private sector. He hated it. He has been looking to get a job in something he enjoys to no avail. Now he is working for the census and loves it.

All degrees can be worthwhile. A friend of mine has a BA in Sociology (that is it) and is now the director of development at a large nonprofit. She started at a homeless shelter as intake coordinator and worked herself up (she is 38 now).