Bill Clinton: "Lower the rhetoric. Goldman Sachs did nothing illegal."

[Bluebear]

Former President Bill Clinton says it is "time to lower the rhetoric and talk about the facts," in reference to the government's scrutiny of Wall Street.

In an exclusive interview with Maria Bartiromo, Clinton noted that while many financial firms are being questioned by the Securities and Exchange Commission, he does not believe that Goldman Sachs or CEO Lloyd Blankfein did anything illegal, based on what he's seeing.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/37149675

[Donnachaidh]

1. F--- You Bill. How much did they contribute to Hillary's campaign?

Or yours in the past?

STFU and sit down.

[glitch]

Raise the rhetoric and broaden the focus to include EVERYBODY RESPONSIBLE.

IOW the people who helped make raiding the economy legal. As one of the contributors to that situation former President Clinton really shouldn't be telling anybody what to say.

[Beacool]

137. Far less than they contributed to Obama's campaign.

:shrug:

[LoZoccolo]

2. That's cool that he is not afraid to stand up for what he thinks is right despite popular opinion.

It is the kind of thing that made him a strong leader.

[Bluebear]

4. DLC sucks.

[NJmaverick]

7. President Clinton is a lawyer. Should he lie and say he sees law breaking if he doesn't?

:shrug:

He said as far as he can see. That leaves room to make a case of for criminal wrong doing.

[LoZoccolo]

11. As a side note, I saw this unfinished painting of Dr. House yesterday that someone is working on...

...and it has the caption "It's never lupus."

[dflprincess]

16. Depends on what the definition of "should" is.

He'd be better off just keeping his mouth shut rather than reminding us of how he helped pave the way for this mess.

[whatchamacallit]

52. +1

Indeed.

[Buns_of_Fire]

133. I did not have a fiduciary relationship with that man, Mr. Blankfein...

Bill, I love ya, son, but there are times to speak and -- just as important -- times not to.

And with your background (gee, and who was it who signed the repeal of Glass-Stegall?), this just might be one of the times NOT to. Just sayin'.

[kenny blankenship]

27. He lied well enough to stay in political office - but not well enough to keep his law license.

[sabrina 1]

40. It's because he's a lawyer that he can say something like this

at this stage. A Defense Attorney.

The Special Inspector of Tarp, who is also a lawyer, doesn't agree with him and that's what really matters.

What Clinton is defending is reprehensible, keeping vital information from investors, selling them junk, and then betting on the failure of that junk.

But then, it was Clinton who signed the bill that rescinded Glass Steagal, so it's no surprise he would try to defend the collapse of the economy as a result of that disastrous decision.

Iow, he's not exactly a neutral observer of all this. His own actions as president will be judged by what has happened to this economy.

And hanging out with the Bushes everywhere there are disaster funds available, hasn't helped his credibility much either.

[saracat]

55. I have always loved Bill but he WAS disbarred for lying. So your point is moot.

[bvar22]

76. Correction: Clinton USED to be a lawyer.

He got thrown out for lying.

[MajorChode]

89. Hardly

He AGREED to a 5 year suspension in order to end an almost 10 year Republicon witch hunt, which he could have easily continued to fight at the expense of millions more in legal bills. Since he had no intention of using his law license anyway, it was a no brainer and essentially a huge defeat for Ken Star who spent almost $100 million on a taxpayer funded partisan attack which ended with little more than his dick in his hand. But don't let the facts get in the way of rhetoric which would be better appreciated on a well known web site with a different ideology.

[saracat]

102. Clinton Disbarred by Supreme Court

And I am a huge fan of Bill Clinton, though I do not always agree with him.I also disagree that he should have been disbarred.


Clinton Disbarred From Supreme Court
By Anne Gearan

Associated Press Writer

Monday, Oct. 1, 2001; 10:48 a.m. EDT

WASHINGTON –– The Supreme Court ordered former President Clinton disbarred from practicing law before the high court on Monday and gave him 40 days to contest the order.

The court did not explain its reasons, but Supreme Court disbarment often follows disbarment in lower courts.

In April, Clinton's Arkansas law license was suspended for five years and he paid a $25,000 fine. The original disbarment lawsuit was brought by a committee of the Arkansas Supreme Court.

There are no fines associated with the Supreme Court action. Most lawyers who are admitted to the Supreme Court bar never actually argue a case there, but the right to do so is considered an honor.

Clinton agreed to the Arkansas fine and suspension Jan. 19, the day before he left office, as part of an understanding with Independent Counsel Robert Ray to end the Monica Lewinsky investigation.

The agreement also satisfied the legal effort by the Arkansas Supreme Court Committee on Professional Conduct to disbar Clinton for giving misleading testimony in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case.

The Supreme Court followed its standard rules in the Clinton case, which include suspending Clinton from practice in the court and giving him 40 day to show why he should not be permanently disbarred.

The court order did not mention any vote by the justices.

"Whenever a member of the bar of this court has been disbarred or suspended from practice of any court of record, or has engaged in conduct unbecoming a member of the bar of this court, the court will enter an order suspending that member from practice before this court," Supreme Court rules say.

Julia Payne, a spokeswoman for Clinton, referred calls to his lawyer, David Kendall, in Washington. Kendall did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

[Sebastian Doyle]

35. But what he "thinks is right" is often wrong.

Certainly is in this case. As it was when he signed NAFTA. As it was when he signed DOMA. As it was when he signed DADT. As it was when he signed the Murdoch/Clear Channel/Comca$t enabling act of 1996.

And as he was when he picked one of his best friends.......

[glitch]

73. How dare you? HOW DARE YOU?

sorry, just thinking of another example of a Clinton error and his arrogance about it. ;)

[formercia]

120. I bet Junior is jealous.

Billy is the Son Poppy always wanted.

[marmar]

72. If he thinks he's "right" on this issue, it makes him a recalcitrant asshat.

nt

[mod mom]

81. He backed an oppressive tyrant to head an international election monitoring organization

Guess he's gone against popular opinion before:


After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton

By JO BECKER and DON VAN NATTA Jr.
Published: January 31, 2008
Late on Sept. 6, 2005, a private plane carrying the Canadian mining financier Frank Giustra touched down in Almaty, a ruggedly picturesque city in southeast Kazakhstan. Several hundred miles to the west a fortune awaited: highly coveted deposits of uranium that could fuel nuclear reactors around the world. And Mr. Giustra was in hot pursuit of an exclusive deal to tap them.

Unlike more established competitors, Mr. Giustra was a newcomer to uranium mining in Kazakhstan, a former Soviet republic. But what his fledgling company lacked in experience, it made up for in connections. Accompanying Mr. Giustra on his luxuriously appointed MD-87 jet that day was a former president of the United States, Bill Clinton.

-snip


snip

"Kazakhstan’s president, Nursultan A. Nazarbayev, whose 19-year stranglehold on the country has all but quashed political dissent."

"Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy."

-snip

Just months after the Kazakh pact was finalized, Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation received its own windfall: a $31.3 million donation from Mr. Giustra that had remained a secret until he acknowledged it last month. The gift, combined with Mr. Giustra’s more recent and public pledge to give the William J. Clinton Foundation an additional $100 million, secured Mr. Giustra a place in Mr. Clinton’s inner circle, an exclusive club of wealthy entrepreneurs in which friendship with the former president has its privileges.

LINK:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html

[JackRiddler]

124. Strictly coincidental that he was financially in bed with them, right.

I try not to do this but it deserves:

:eyes:

[MattBaggins]

128. Standing up for his golfing buddies and biggest contributors

[Richard Steele]

139. Pfft. Not even worth replying to.

nm

[Jim Sagle]

140. It made him an unashamed sellout.

[hedgehog]

3. Sometimes something can be perfectly legal, and absolutely wrong.

[maxsolomon]

5. because our representatives legalized it

it remains UNETHICAL.

[sabrina 1]

49. And Clinton was the president who helped legalize it. So

he has a vested interest in defending it. His 'men' demonized Brooksley Born when she tried to warn against what they were doing and he allowed them to drive her out of her job. A decade later she turned out to be right. I'd rather hear Clinton admit how wrong he and Summers and Greenspan were and issue an apology to Brooksley Born and Sen. Dorgan and the others who tried to his administration from leading the country down this path.

He can commiserate with his new BFF, the Bushes. He's part of the ruling class, and although I spent years defending him, he no longer has any credibility on issues like this for me.

[WinkyDink]

6. Ah, yes: Ethics (the spirit) vs. Law (the letter). Bill C. ought not to tread thereon.

[mod mom]

8. from the man who signed the repeal of Glass Steagall

:mad:

[smirkymonkey]

75. +1

[Octafish]

123. +2

BTW: How's NAFTA been treating your neck of the woods?

[MattBaggins]

125. Boy did you hit the nail on the head

Hey Clinton you fuck nuts; they didn't do anything illegal because you made it legal you dumb ass.

[lonestarnot]

130. +10 And signed NAFTA

:mad:

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeyondGeography]

10. Sometimes, you're too close to the action to have any credibility at all

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5836190-503544.html

[Bluebear]

13. Oh for heaven's sake, that explains one piece of the puzzle.

[Hannah Bell]

29. & gore's daughter married a Kuhn, Loeb heir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karenna_Gore_Schiff

[karynnj]

78. That says NOTHING about Karenna, her husband or Al Gore

The fact is that this is the circle that Gore and his children were born into. It was not an arranged marriage. It was two people falling in love and marrying.

[Hannah Bell]

88. The other poster noted Clinton's impending marriage to a Goldman hire;

I noted Gore's marriage to a Kuhn, Loeb heir.

I imagine Clinton's marriage is a love match too. So what?

Doesn't mitigate the fact that the political class & the financial class are one.

[karynnj]

93. Sorry - didn't catch that

Yes, I get that the political elite and the financial elite are from one and the same group. Some like Clinton are not born into it, but by the time they are even close to national consideration they are.

[Hannah Bell]

95. thanks for the cordial response. rare thing here.

glad you appreciate the difference between a personal attack on the character of individuals v. a comment on the structure of the ruling class & the cooptation of politicians.

[karynnj]

97. thank you pointing out my error

I should have looked back over the full thread.

[bvar22]

105. !

"Mezvinsky, the son of former Pennsylvania Rep. Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky and former Iowa Rep. Ed Mezvinsky, now works as an investment banker at Goldman Sachs."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5836190-503544.html

All along, I thought the Nexus of Evil was Opus Dei / Skull & Bones / PNAC / DLC / The Family / Carlyle Group/ Bohemian Grove/ IMF /Trilateral Commission/ The FED.

It is much simpler.
Goldman Sachs IS The Singularity...the Black Hole from which all Evil emerges.

[fishwax]

121. ah, that makes sense

[JackRiddler]

134. Oh for fuck's sake, HIS DAUGHTER is marrying to a Goldman Sachs trader!

Yeah, yeah, how unfair of me to assign significance to a totally random association. It doesn't denote anything about this family's class affiliation, does it? Chelsea and Marc just ran into each other at a bus stop and it was love at first sight, right?

In my life of watching WANNABE PIGS, I've never seen a worse one than this character. He will do ANYTHING to whore himself out for the ruling class. He is in bed with the BUSHES. His whore billionaire economists, Summers and Rubin, are the ones who made the CRIMES of Goldman Sachs legal.

What more do we need to know about this motherfucker?

[enki23]

12. Fuck you, Bill. Fuck you.

[tridim]

14. Hey Bill, lets lower the bullshit okay?

What he said might be accurate, but why say it in the first place?

I still like Bill, but this statement is completely uncalled for. What's his point? It seems like CYA on the surface.

[Raineyb]

15. Clinton needs to STFU as he certainly had a part in WHY what Goldman Sachs did is no longer illegal.

But then Clinton never saw a corporation that he could say no to.

[kenny blankenship]

17. Can we stop pretending that Bill Clinton represents anything about Democratic values?

Except perhaps a long shameful period -sadly not yet behind us- in which we have capitulated body and soul to the marketing program of Ronald Reagan and the Republican Party?

[End Of The Road]

96. All these bash Clinton posts make me feel like I'm in Freeperville.

[mdmc]

112. well he said that no laws were broken

but are the laws ethical?

I mean, did Hitler break a law?
Did a slave beater break the law back in the day?

[spoony]

108. Hear hear. nt

[Marr]

18. Right. And they purchased politicians like Mr. Clinton specifically to *make* those schemes legal.

Legal is not the same ethical. The fact that their acts were largely legal is a greater condemnation of the establishment, not an exoneration of it.

[joeybee12]

19. Bill and most of the Dems in Congress today have become very rich

off of Wall Street...don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[Greyhound]

20. He's not going to stop defending his "legacy" of punishing the poor to benefit the parasites.

He knows who writes the checks he cashes.

[ProSense]

21. "Big Dawg"

Can we wait until the prelimary criminal probes are completed?

[boston bean]

22. me thinks the whole ball-o-wax is unraveling. Send the big dawg out

to calm the masses and keep the cover for the corporatist facade. In truth, our democratic representatives and leaders are a bunch of corporate whores!

[ShortnFiery]

42. The Big Dawg's been neutered ...

now only his con artist persona is oozing through. :wow:

"Now what is it going to take me to get you to believe this BUNK?!?"

[Bluebear]

46. Crying shame.

[ShortnFiery]

47. Yes, all that intelligence and personality crossing over to the dark side. :( eom

[Bluebear]

51. I was a true believer of him too.

How disgusting to find out that people you admired turn out to be corporatist shills.

[ProSense]

56. " How disgusting to find out that people you admired turn out to be corporatist shills."

Did the fact that he has always been a strong advocate and member of the DLC not provide any clues?

[boston bean]

59. I think he's including Obama in that. How bout you???

[ProSense]

62. Um,

no.

Unlike the Clinton Administration and the DLC, who are pro-deregulation, President Obama is pro-regulation.

[boston bean]

66. I can tell, more exploratory drills, and giving waivers. The regulation is breathtaking! nt

[Bluebear]

110. +

[Bluebear]

63. Whatever ignore said, yes, you are correct.

We all get caught up in the hope and change and speeches, but the proof of the pudding is in the policies.

[OHdem10]

23. DLC and Wall Street especially Goldman-sachs are joined at the

hip. This response would be expected from Clinton.

[Newest Reality]

24. The history of Goldman Sachs says otherwise,

regardless of what kind of legal technicalities you want to catch that fox with.

[nykym]

25. And now this from the man that said

I did not have sexual relations with that woman

[Aramchek]

26. We'll let the DOJ be the judge of that, Billy

[lib2DaBone]

28. ..So says the man that signed NAFTA and "Welfare Reform"...

NAFTA GAVE US THE SHAFTA

[tularetom]

30. He's afraid somebody may look back at who let Wall Street get so fucked up

And one of the primary culprits is him.

Throw his fat lying as in jail with the rest of them.

[Gin]

32. they admit they didn't do anything illegal....just like the BP president

stated on TV today that they didn't do anything illegal...and that is the issue...they had carte blanche and knew it and took us for all we are worth..

[Bluebear]

48. +

[Hell Hath No Fury]

31. Dear Bil Clinton --

Back in the day I was a big fan, a True Believer who defended you until the day you left office.

I now have only one thing to say to you:

Shut up and go away. Please.

[Deep13]

33. The outrage is because it wasn't illegal.

Anyway, people can still do what's right even if not legally required to do so. An action can be both legal and immoral at the same time.

[1776Forever]

34. Marc Mezvinsky, Chelsea's finance, works for Goldman Sachs- hmmmmmmm

http://www.hellomagazine.com/profiles/chelsea-clinton/

"Marc Mezvinsky, a former intern in her father's White House who now works for Goldman Sachs."

...............

Did he mention that in the interview? :eyes:

[ipaint]

38. +1 bingo. nt

[notesdev]

86. Surprising!

I would have expected someone to point that out before the 34th response. Goldman Sachs and the Clintons are literally family.

[izquierdista]

36. He said while wearing a blindfold

...while his head was up Blankfein's ass.

[Junkdrawer]

37. Sez the man who signed the law that enabled the crisis.

I'll take his statement with a giant grain of salt, thank you.

[Toucano]

101. +1 Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner folks!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. Good ol' Billl. Still triangulating (aka kissing up to) to the right.

[glitch]

74. Triangulating is just another word for collaborating.

Or at very best, appeasing.

[RandomThoughts]

41. Well if they did nothing illegal, what does that say?

That the social laws they wrote need to be changed, because they did do things that hurt people, and hurt the system, although helps a small group. And they did not operate within moral laws as most people see them.

So if a person makes an argument that it was not illegal, they make the argument for more legislation, or the argument that the law system in place is wrong.

Is he saying they should be allowed to do what ever they want without social input into systems with economic influence? Thereby defending what most think of as a broken system, or is he making the argument for overhaul and change to that broken system?

[marylanddem]

43. Bill Clinton is a corporate asshat.

[Kelvin Mace]

44. Reason # 5,115 of why Bill Clinton was NEVER a liberal

despite Rush Limbaugh's claims

[greencharlie]

45. mmmm hmmmm... yup. nt

[blueworld]

50. Was it illegal before all the regulation gyrations?

I'm tired of hearing "it's not illegal". It was once. Just because they finagled the system, doesn't make it less egregious.

[skeptical cynic]

53. Doesn't mean much

Coming from one of the pioneers of Democratic support for neoliberal economics.

Bill Clinton is the politician that made membership in the Democratic Party meaningless for me.

[saracat]

54. Geez Bill stepped in this one. The man does love "technicalities."

[Rex]

57. Well then I guess he is looking at faulty intelligence, because

it is quite obvious you cannot bet on (secretly) a guaranteed fail. I've never seen so many people in love with GS, which would sell their soul in a heartbeat for a nickle.

[DonCoquixote]

58. Bill, S.T.F.U.

Bill, I will admit, you did do some good for this country, but you were determined to undo a lot of it for purely selfish reasons, not the least of which was you wagging your finger and lying in a manner that was so ridiculous you jumped the shark. I won;t even mention how YOU ruined your wife's campaign by trying to take it over and tell gaffes that pratically put Obama is the White House, or the documented fact that, while Obama wanted HIllary for VP, his advisors were scarred that YOU would walk in and steal the show from both of them.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/10/obama_weighed_hillary_worried.html

And this is in addition to the fact that policies you esposed have turned out to be screaming fiascos, like NAFTA (which made Mexcians so poor they cannot afford their own corn), the Telecommuncations act (which gave the Media to Fox and Rush) and the repeal of Glass-Steagall (which tuned our economy into a Casino that is much less reuglated than Vegas.)

Bill, if you have anything more to say, you need to turn your head left. Left is what served you, even though you poorly served it. If not, STFU, or else, we can bury you and your legacy in the same Potter's field that we reserve for the Bushes.

[laughingliberal]

113. +1000 nt

[Downtown Hound]

60. "Sit Bill, sit. Bark. Howl.

Fetch. Play dead. Good Bill." -Goldman Sachs

[ljm2002]

61. Hey, Bill...

...how about we crank up the rhetoric until these shits are held accountable for their larceny and greed that has caused untold misery here and around the world? How about we expose these bastards who pounce like vultures on sovereign debts that they helped to create and then to hide? How about we go after GS and all of their apologists, including you?

This makes me ill. He's become part of the monied class. Well, I suppose that is one of the primary motivations for going into politics in the first place.

Damned shame, though. We could have used him on our side. But on this matter he is definitely not on the side of the little guys.

[Lerkfish]

64. "LEAVE GOLDMAN SACHS ALONE!"

[Bluebear]

65. ---

:spray:

Never gets old :)

[boston bean]

69. ,,,

[Ignis]

83. Oh, you got me.

:spray:

Time to go find some napkins.

[bullwinkle428]

84. That picture is CRYING OUT for a photoshop job!!

Unfortunately, I lack both the software and the necessary skills.

[fishwax]

122. lol

:thumbsup:

[marmar]

67. Surprised? He aided and abetted this mess........

And the Obama administration has grabbed the baton.

[Better Believe It]

68. President Clinton's support enabled the de-regulation of the banks and financial services industry.

[JuniperLea]

70. Maybe they didn't...

Maybe the regulations were dropped, and what they did was within the "law." Please note the irony quotes.

[phleshdef]

71. I agree with him only as far as there MIGHT be enough legal LOOPHOLES in place...

...that they didn't technically break any laws. I've seen convincing arguments on both sides of that. Ultimately, if the answer is that they didn't break any laws, then the next question is should what they did be against the law, and the answer to that is of course, yes.

[mitchum]

77. Lap Dawg

[Bluebear]

79. First Lady BlahBlah, now this.

:applause:

[Odin2005]

80. FUCK YOU, you DLCer and protege of a defender of the Elites.

That defender being historian Caroll Quigley.

[bvar22]

82. Well of course he did.

Big Dawg...Still playing for the same team...the Corporate Ownership Society.
Some things never change.
I have some compassion for the Old Dawg today.
He is fixing to lose his crown.
His title of "Best Republican President Ever" is in jeopardy.
It won't be near as much fun being "2nd Best Republican Ever."

Nobody ever wants to Thrill Fuck 2nd Place.

[lib2DaBone]

85. Hey Big Dawg.. the FBI Called and left a message...

.. they want to know something about your fingrprints on Ron Browns Airplane?

Also something about a note Vince Foster left before he disappeared?

Please call them back... thanks....


< > While you were out
< x> Please call back
< > Urgent
< > no message

[bobbolink]

87. Gotta love that cuddly "Big Dog"

:puke:

Of course, what he did to poor women and children was just fine. :nuke:

[Hannah Bell]

90. realized he was a phoney when he demagogued the sister souljah thing.

and imo, the sister is a phoney too.

[bobbolink]

91. You gotta admit... he has a very good "aw shucks" act.

Kinda like a lot of "helpers" I know.

Too bad we can't even say on DU that we weren't taken in by the slick act of the other one. I figured out his act back in '04, and am not surprised at any of what we have now.

Sad, yes.

Despairing, yes.

Surprised, no.

:cry:

[Hannah Bell]

92. good act if one likes smarm.

seem to remember obama had his own sister souljah moment.

it seems to be an obligatory ritual for dems if they want power: prove you'll throw the left under the bus! send a signal to "investors"!

[Starry Messenger]

94. He's always driven me up the wall.

I didn't vote for him twice because of crap like this. I think the first time I ever felt a faint squirt of affection for him was when he got up and danced to Chuck Berry at the last Kennedy Center Honors under his presidency. I'll be interested to see if Gore sticks his neck out on this (another one I can't stand).

[Vinca]

98. Bill Clinton is a self described "new Democrat."

AKA half a Republican. He is the person who inked Phil Gramm's bill that pretty much caused the financial mess.

[bvar22]

106. So is Barack Obama.

”I am a New Democrat!”---Barack Obama
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254931&kaid=85&subid=900184



The DLC New Team
Working Class Democrats need NOT Apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans."---Paul Wellstone

[JanMichael]

116. I love that shot of Wellstone. He looks like he's ready to do the ground and pound...

...on some dumbass conservative. Or maybe just throttle one with his bare hands.

He was a stocky solid looking dude wasn't he?

[jgraz]

99. Bill "Calvin Coolidge" Clinton.

Fuck off, Bubba.

[Hannah Bell]

100. ;>) cool clinton!

[fascisthunter]

103. fricking shill

thanks for supporting corruption and opening the flood gates to corporate America into our political party.

[amborin]

104. k&r perhaps b/c the paper trail leads back

to bipartisan repeal of Glass Steagall?

or more likely, he's too cozy with this admin, w/ its numerous GS alum and connections.....

[sendero]

107. Fuck you ..

... Bill Clinton, the main Democrat responsible for this fiasco.

[alarimer]

109. The fact that what they did is legal IS the problem.

And it is at least partially your fault, Bill. For signing the repeal of the Glass-Steagal Act, among your other pro-corporate sins.

[mdmc]

111. Just a good ol boy.. never meanin no harm..

[Synicus Maximus]

114. One must ask exactly what did Goldman Sachs do that was

illegal. Not wrong. not unethical, but illegal?

[Bluebear]

118. We don't have to ask, Bill Clinton has assured us.

[JackRiddler]

132. Engage in a vast conspiracy to commit fraud...

in collusion with a selection of their clients, the fraud firms that sold the mortgages, the consultants and "analysts" that deceived investors about the junk securities, the ratings agencies that certified known junk as AAA (just months before much of it was downgraded to junk, but by then the suckers had already bought it).

In Goldman's case there's also plenty of evidence of front-running via HFT software, naked shorting of Bear Stearns and Lehman with intent to cause (not merely cash in on) their bankruptcies, and manipulation of the oil market in 2008. They've been a mob for decades.

It's all a question of attitudes, cultural definitions and the will to go after them.

If the mafia was caught on exactly the same evidence doing the same things as GS, they would have been declared a criminal organization. A certain prejudice would have underlain this determination: presumed mobsters who hang out together and happen to get very rich are (with justification) prejudicially presumed to be engaging in a conspiratorial organization structured so as to hide their specific crimes.

This is why RICO statutes were created, to allow prosecutors to have their operations seized.

That would have already happened to Goldman and the rest of the Wall Street gangsters, but because our culture happens to define these particular organized criminals and their vast fraud scheme as "bankers" doing "business," the RICO and other broad fraud statutes are not applied.

If they didn't have the presumption of respectability and of course the terror threat of "too big to fail," you would definitely be talking about them in the past tense. They would have been like Enron and Arthur Anderson: shut them down first so that they can no longer engage in rapine and plunder, then figure out who gets charged with which crime. (Enron went bankrupt of course, but AA was SHUT DOWN, exactly what should have happened to GS, S&P, and the rest.)

[laughingliberal]

115. K & R for exposure of DLC agenda. nt

[amborin]

117. kick

[krispos42]

119. Neither did Hitler, until he invaded Poland.

The problem is that what they did was MADE legal.


And people that confuse "it's legal" with "it's moral" deserve all the scorn and hatred they deserve.


Imagine Congress passing a bill allowing the hunting of hedge fund managers with the purchase of a $20 license. Well, then, gunning down fatcats with scope-sighted rifles would then be perfectly legal, right? So would Phil Gramm say "Hey hey hey, they're not doing anything illegal"?

[Swamp Rat]

127. Correctamundo

Btw, fuck Godwin and his stupid 'law'.

[JackRiddler]

126. Translation: "I did my part in repealing the laws against the crimes that GS committed."

All this deserves is: "Fuck you, you fucking fuck."

[timtom]

129. Tsk! Tsk!

And this coming from the man who pardoned Marc Rich on his last day in office.

[lonestarnot]

131. Big Dawg took another shit in the nest did he.

[blm]

135. 'Big Dawg' my ass...'Lap Dawg' has always been more accurate. Really tough work enabling BushInc

and the fascist agenda all those years, eh Bill?

The 90s: One grand Dog and Pony Show.

[lonestarnot]

136. Harsh,

but I'm inclined to let you speak for me on this one. :>)

[Beacool]

138. Oh goodie, one more anti-Clinton thread.

Let me go see what the Freepers are up to, at least I know where they are coming from and don't expect any better........

:puke:

Considering that Obama received more money from GS than any other candidate in 2008, the outrage against Bill is quite hypocritical. Then again, par for the course on this board.

:eyes:

[marmar]

141. Sorry, but it's deserved in this case.....and Obama deserves the criticism too.....

Since he adopted all of Clinton's Goldman Club into his administration. The truth is the truth.

[Beacool]

146. The difference is that Obama portrayed himself to be a "change" factor and he's more of the same.

He was a B.S. artist during the primaries and he's still one now.

:shrug:

[Ichingcarpenter]

143. A Goldman Sachs supporter .... What a surprise

I would have cheered Bill if he had slammed them but he didn't, you are blind in your allegiance

[Beacool]

145. Not a GS supporter, just sick and tired ot the Clinton hate on this board.

What does Clinton's sexual peccadilloes and Chelsea's fiance's job have to do with his statement that people should not be too quick to judge? I think that GS is a sack of s**t, but I have no idea if illegalities were committed by them.

;(

[JI7]

144. you think the OP doesn't post criticisms of Obama ?

[Beacool]

147. I don't know.

:shrug:

[Bluebear]

149. I can't win.

;)

[Ichingcarpenter]

142. Goldman Sachs made the Greek crisis possible fuck you bill

From Der Spiegel


http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,676634,00.html

[Individualist]

148. Damn the corporate loving DLC