I have this bad habit, in facebook when one of my "friends" starts bashing liberals I go after them.

[scubadude]

I usually hit them with historical quotes, designed to make them look foolish or against what our forefathers meant our country.

Today's altercation took place with a fellow who feels that when he moves around in the country, it doesn't seem like his country any more. There were way too many of those other types. A never ending stream of immigrants to blame the countries woes on. So today I prepped him for the kill with the fact that both of our families are made up from immigrant stock, as most people are in this great country.

Next I hit him with the quote on the Statue of Liberty:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
' With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I considered backing this up with a tight argument which I had built up to completely pulverize him, making him look like a complete idiot. Well, I don't know this guy well enough for me to really care, so I just deleted my further drubbing and removed him from my friends list. I was going to show him personally filmed Obama video form Obama's win speach which I shot for DU. Very powerful stuff.

Now his small group of haters and CONservative friends are making fun of me. Saying things like k"I forgot that part of history in history class". Playing up the I'm stupid but so what part of this type of mentality.

I bowed out of what has proven to me to be a waste of effort. People who regularly vote against their own self interest are very rarely convinced by logic. These folks are a lost cause seems to me.

Did I do wrong? Should I have confronted him vigorously making him look like a fool, even though the chances of getting through are very thina?

Please guide me oh DU.

Here's the vid I was going to infuriate him with: http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/scubaduderon/?action=view¤t=Baracksacceptancespeech11_04_2008.flv&newest=1

Thanks,

Scuba

[lonestarnot]

1. They don't call us the melting pot for nutt'n.

[scubadude]

2. Yeah, I had some of that in the initial drubbing.

I've found out that logic doesn't matter, being right doesn't matter. What matters is how uncouth and downright vicious they can act towards you, and they usually do it as a team. Not worth it in this case.

Scuba

[gateley]

5. You said it twice -- logic doesn't matter. And facts don't matter. You'll never

change their minds, only raise your own blood pressure. Be nice to yourself and don't get into it with these types, they don't want to see the truth. :pals:

[scubadude]

8. I believe you are right.

Even among dems here this is true. I tend to be a bit of an old liner, maybe I'm a little older than most or learned at an early age how Republicans operate. I watched the watergate hearings daily as a young kid. Pre and adolescent really. I knew back then how the dirty trick machines work. I have kept up that whole time watching how the parties operate, or fail to operate due to lack of money and corporated support. Watched as the Republicans gutted the Fairness Doctrine. Watched as Fox news rose to greatness by using cheap mind control tricks and lies they were now free to tell. Watching the death of Wellstone, who would have changed the balance of congress. Watched as key witnesses to Republican election stealing die in unexplained airplane crashes.

It's been a long sad road for us lefy Dems. Even now we see how far we still have to go. Yet at least we are going somewhere. Just hopefully it isn't further to the right.

Fight on my friends, but don't waste your time on the brainless ghouls that call themselves conservatives.

Scuba

[RandomThoughts]

3. Good video, he has had a tough job, and there is much to do.

It is good that he is working toward the better goals.

I have immigrants in every generation back, so think on that topic of your post on the statue of liberty also.

I don't think the quotes and video would help the guy you mention nor reach the reason he feels that way. It probably is not about immigrants but more about himself if he is mad about stuff, many times the reasons are self rationalizations.

[scubadude]

6. Ignorant and mad, striking out at a percieved enemy. The other guy.

That is one of the dangers of a 2 party system. Especially a winner take all system. People view politics as they view sports, and they don't mind playing dirty to win. They admire the dirty play and see it as virtue. We see it as desperate cheating. They see it as might makes right.

Scuba

[elleng]

4. Those folks ARE a lost cause, never DID learn history,

and you did great to go as far as you did. Emma Lazarus does it every time, for me, 'dude!

[Kerrytravelers]

7. Unfriend his idiot pals, too.

I am very selective who I allow in my FB circles. Why should I be bombarded with their nonsense all the time. FB is where I keep in touch with those I can't see often.

[scubadude]

10. Yeah, I'm locked up pretty tight.

But facebook has such poor privacy protection. I'm gonna have to go back and over it again. I did so just 2 days ago, and obviously it wasn't good enough, because I was still getting this Bozo's comments.

Back to the drawing board for me.

Scuba

[zentrum]

9. You did right.

The single sharp rebuke followed by completely  ignoring him. 
Arguing with a racist (in that kind of venue) dignifies them
too much.

[scubadude]

11. Exactly, and identifying them as racists just pumps them up.

Todd Rundgren had a good line for it "Sometimes I just don't know what to feel".

Scuba

[jobycom]

12. You try to make someone look like a fool, they'll respond in kind.

You give him a well thought out answer, and he'll do his best to look like he's trying to give you one (not that you can expect much from a conservative). So it depends what your goal was. If you wanted to convince him, making him look like a fool was the wrong approach. If you just wanted to show him what you thought of him and his bigotry, you accomplished your goal, but don't be surprised that he and his friends are trashing you. That's just the way humans respond.

Personally, I'd have done about what you did. He's not going to change, and if you don't have any connection that makes you want to stay his friend, just scorch the earth and delete him. I've done that to a couple of people, too.

[scubadude]

13. Yeah, you are right.

I lack the subtle approach in some cases. I am much better at that in person. I can usually get conservatives up to the point of reason before they even realize their viewpoints are coming into question. It is interesting when you get them to change. Sometimes it is quick, sometimes it takes years. The Last election I converted 4 died in the wool conservatives that a vote for their own best interest would be best. I got 4 republicans to vote for Obama. I call that a pretty good track record. I work hard at it. Sometimes it pays.

But when someone is slinging a pantload around, it is very difficult to mount a nuances argument.

I guess my goal in this persons case was nuanced at first, quoting the statue of liberty, making comments about all our heritage, but after the first comment got shitty, I refrained to go down into the dirt, backed off and got out. Then they really piled on.

Another day, another lesson learned.

Scuba

[jobycom]

14. Sounds to me like you are good at reading people's level of reason.

You know who to work on, and who to just hit with a blowtorch and leave by the wayside. I'm like that, usually. I'll fight bigotry if it seems to be based on ignorance and the person seems otherwise well intentioned, but if it's just some idiot proud of his hatred and insecurity, why waste time?

[WCGreen]

15. You can't educate someone who doesn't want to be....

[Sherman A1]

16. My 2 cents

Something posted on FB in this case is their opinion, to which they have every right to have. You and I may not agree with their views and they not with ours, but that is the beauty of this country and as such I like to embrace it. I am all for the occasional drubbing when the situation calls for it and we have to know when that is (mostly I think, it's an "attitude" thing), but I am not going to waste my time trying to change someone else's opinion. I have a "friend" on FB that blames Unions for just about everything and I got tired of his comments so I just blocked his feed to my home page. I was never going to change his opinion (and that is all it is) with my facts because he doesn't want to see them and it just ain't worth the effort.

So do as you choose, but I don't get into any real FB discussions as they simply ain't worth my time.

[donheld]

17. Sounds like you have a good habit to me.

[Junkie Brewster]

18. Honestly, I don't bother

I went to high school in southern Oregon, a very conservative place (much of Oregon is rural and conservative). Some of my friends from junior high and high school are extremely conservative. There's a couple that I can dialogue with, respectfully disagreeing and discussing our differences, but others are just plain dumb. But the fact of the matter is that these are people who have known me since I was about 4 feet tall. I want to stay in touch with them, even if I don't want to have deep discussions with them, which is more I can say for the Republicans I've met since I graduated from college.