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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 12:51 AM
Original message
Arizona debates removing Spanish city names
Arizonans have realized they have passed their law requiring police to check the papers of suspected illegal immigrants too late--uninvited Mexicans gave Spanish names to most of the cities and geographic features in the state, including the largest cities. The state legislature is working to undo this cultural vandalism.

State senator Russel Pearce explains how he realized the need for the change, "I was driving home from shooting prairie dogs with my four year old granddaughter and as we drove through Mesa, she asked, 'Grandpa, what does Mesa mean?' and I didn't know. I didn't have a good answer for her. Can you imagine how humiliating that was?"

While Pearce was telling the story to Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who was giving a cavity search to a Hispanic he suspected of being an illegal immigrant, and the suspect told Pearce that "mesa" was the Spanish word for "table" and that lots of place names in Arizona were Spanish. The suspect lost consciousness and was loaded in the back of a truck to be dumped over the border before he could elaborate.

Pearce then examined a map with several of his colleagues and realized they did not know the meaning of most of the place names in the state, and decided that they must be changed so that other parents and grandparents would not be embarrassed in the same way Pearce was, or worse, have to tell their children that a place, maybe even the city they live in, was named by Mexicans.

One passing Democrat said some of the names were Native American, which further enraged the conservatives. "We killed them, we killed damn near ALL of them," one legislator said. "Why should we be reminded that they used to be squatting on our state before we got here and undo all that killing?"

State legislators are divided on how to remedy the language problem though.

Half want to simply change the present names to English words that sound like the current ones. Tucson would become Two songs, Phoenix would become Fee Nix, Mesa would become Messy, and so on.

The other half, including Pearce, want to translate the offending foreign names. Pearce said, ''Phoenix is some kind of dead bird that comes back to life after being burned to ashes in their religion, so we would call the city "Ashy Bird." Tucson would become Volcano Bottom, and Tempe would become Tampon.

"Once we fix this, we will have to figure out how to deal with other states that have the same problem like New Mexico, California, Rhode Island," said Pearce. "We will probably boycott states until they follow our example and change to real American names. They don't seem to understand what this country is about."

Legislators are also considering keeping one token Spanish name to acknowledge that some Mexicans come here legally and know their place. "We might even change the name of Phoenix to a different Spanish word, 'Pendejo,' which my legal Hispanic friends tells me means 'beautiful pendant.'"
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Don't give them any ideas! nt
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. cute.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. I know this is funny, but it wasn't when we really renamed a mountain from Squaw Peak to Piestewa
Peak (Lori Piestewa was first native American woman to die in Iraq in case you weren't familiar with the person) They were against that too.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. Doesn't "squaw" mean "vagina"? If they wanted to rename everything to God's Own English...
that might help with the tourism trade.
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. IIRC, "squaw" is more like the "C-word" in meaning... considered offensive and degrading.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. Well I was about to say this is ridiculous but I guess it's also too ridiculous to be true.
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Whenever I'm on a chat...
And someone speaks in Spanish prompting someone to reply, "English Only!" I like to type something like the following:

This morning I was lying in the HAMMOCK on the PATIO of my ADOBE HACIENDA eating CHOCOLATE and TOMATOES looking out at the MESAS and CANYONS when I saw a COYOTE, and I thought, "I'd like to LASSO that BUCKAROO, but it's illegal so I'd get put in the HOOSEGOW." So I put on my ten GALLON hat and my CHAPS and headed out to the CORRAL to get my MUSTANG ready for the RODEO tonight.

Normally, this pisses off the mod, and I always reply, "What? I'm speaking EL ENGLISH!"

TlalocW
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. English is a very receptive language.
I've heard it has more words than any other which may be true because it accepts words from everywhere.

To use that receptivity and adaptability as some kind of taunt because you are bilingual and others aren't, that's disgusting.

Once upon a time there was a great project, the building of a high tower, and the work went forward until a horrible thing happened, suddenly everyone spoke a different language and no one understood the other, accidents happened, stones fell, the tower had to be abandoned and the people who had been united all took separate paths away from each other, because the inability to communicate had made them strangers.

I don't appreciate anything that separates Americans into separate language ghettos. I don't accept that our newest immigrants are less capable, less sharp, less smart and determined than other immigrants who busted their asses and learned the language and made damn sure their children could speak and write it correctly. That's pure bigotry masquerading as solidarity. It ensures that the people who got here earlier have clear lines of demarcation to use in discrimination.

In Mexico and the rest of Latin America, people speak the language of their brutal conquerors. But Spain did not succeed in North America. Here, the conquerors spoke other languages. To come here and insist on special privileges for Spanish that Vietnamese never got, that Japanese never got, that Russian never got, that Italian never got...what is that?

If Hispanics want to be a special club within the United States, I say no. I've see Quebec and its endless separatist outbreaks and I can't see one reason to bring that here.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Spanish came here before English. So for you all to come here
and expect people to discard their culture because it makes you uncomfortable is unreasonable. Not to mention, in recognition of that community older than America, Spanish is protected by treaty in all the territories ceded by Mexico.

I'm afraid the question of Latinos (because Hispanic means from Spain) being a "club" was settled a long time ago.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. Kinda like Bo Derek telling Paul Rodriguez that the Mexicans should just go back
to where they came from. His response: "THIS is where we came from! WE were here FIRST!"

(so something like that; I believe it was on the Bill Mahrer show (?) & Paul had this look of "Just how fucking stupid are you, guera?" on his face when she issued that bon mot)

dg
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Yes. The Latino club, along side of the Native American club
and the Black club and the Jewish club is just part of the American landscape. Why people who should know better have such a hard time with that is unfortunate.
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1z2z Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
37. treaty protection ?
I could'nt find any mention of it here

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/guadhida.asp

Perhaps the Gadsden Purchase?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. No, it is Guadalupe Hidalgo, "free enjoyment of their liberty and property".
Which includes language as few of those people spoke English at the time and the ability to enter a contract or sue in court depends upon language. This clause is what we'd later recognize as a "protected class" in the civil rights legislation of the 60s.

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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. Have you been to a county hospital in a major city?
Here in Minneapolis you see signs in Chinese, Hmong, Somali, Cambodian, Lao, Vietnamese, Russian, as well as Spanish. You do realize that when your precious ancestors came over, they probably spent a generation or two in one of your language "ghettos"
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. Very good, Yurbud
We'll give you today's DU literature prize.
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. can we build that wall around Arizona?
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. AZ: the new nuttiest state.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. I lived in Texas and before that, Florida
It takes some damn hard work to earn that title.
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Neron616 Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. It's sad
But I was willing to believe that this was true.

What is wrong with our country?
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
11. ARIZONA is O'odham Indian word for “little spring”. Is Arizona changing it's name to George?
Arizona's name probably came from the O'odham Indian word for “little spring”.

First the came for Hispanics...
Then they came for the Poles...
Then they came for the Germans...

so on, so forth...

And all who were left would be native Americans who could rename their land with their original native names...
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. This link attributes the word "Arizona" to the Spanish
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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. From your link.
Historian James H. McClintock in Arizona, Prehistoric, Aboriginal, Pioneer, Modern: The Nation’s Youngest Commonwealth within a Land of Ancient Culture (Chicago: The S. J. Clarke Publishing Co., 1916) and in other works noted that the name was probably derived from a native place name that sounded like Aleh-zon or Ali-Shonak which meant small spring or place of the small spring. The Dictionary: Tohono O'odham/Pima to English, English to Tohono O'odham/Pima indicates that Al Shon, translated as Place of Little Spring, is the place name Arizona.

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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. Very thorough you are.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
13. That was good
Especially strong ending.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
16. How about changing the name "Arizona" to something like "Whiteland"?
Arizona is so....foreign sounding...an old Indian name... Might change it to "NO MEXICO", too...

mark
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Oh God, if we still have Duzys, that is #1 No Mexico! I love it!
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. Many of our Arizona place names are...
English mispronunciations of Spanish misunderstandings of what they thought the Indians were calling the place.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. HAH! So true, so true. nt
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. that's like the google translator game.
put an English sentence in, translate it into another language, then result into another, and so on a couple of times, then back to English. The result is either funny or unintelligible.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. that's like the google translator game.
put an English sentence in, translate it into another language, then result into another, and so on a couple of times, then back to English. The result is either funny or unintelligible.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Perfect!. . .n/t
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. A lot of "Indian" names are derogatory.
Navajo means "thief" and Anasazi means "ancient enemy".
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FBI_Un_Sub Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. Racism rides high
Classic "know nothing" racism and xenophobia. Do these Az teabaggers have no class, or decency?
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Rebubula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. No...
...classic satire.

You got suckered, sir.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Aaaaaand Poe's Law strikes again! -nt
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
27. They could change the city's name from "Phoenix" to "Burning Cross, AZ"
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ceile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
30. LOL!
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greencharlie Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
35. lol... expecting the ONION link. nt
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