God forbid the Obama administration be held to account

[noise]

Why is it that the Obama adminstration continues to seek more unchecked power based on nothing but the idiotic notion that the President should simply be trusted with powers of indefinite detention and assassination of terrorists but when it comes to a staggering disaster which calls for leadership it is suddenly unfair to blame the Obama administration?

The standard isn't "better than the GOP would have done." That is a garbage standard. That is an unacceptable standard.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Well said...

[MUAD_DIB]

2. Your moniker serves you well.

How would you define this as purely Obama's fault?

[Bluebear]

5. Perhaps they are referring to the response.

[ProSense]

13. Irony. n/t

[Barack_America]

6. Just because the spill isn't his fault doesn't absolve him of responsibility for the cleanup.

We are talking about the environmental and economic ruin of multiple states. Their protection should not and cannot be left up to a private corporation.

[MUAD_DIB]

9. So I guess that you know all that is going on behind the scenes...

Enlighten me.

I can say that I don't see Obama strumming a guitar as this mess is unfolding.

This is a tragic mess. Tell us what you would do.

[Bluebear]

12. Honest question, why "behind the scenes"? Why not full disclosure?

[MUAD_DIB]

16. Honest question. Why this tagteam bullshit?

You're the third person in this thread to hit without talking back.

I would have to say that I have never believed in full disclosure...on demand.


We elected a president to lead...not a schlep. Did we elect him to ask us what to do?

Does any world leader?

[noise]

18. So we had our accountability moment

and will have to wait until 2012 for another?

[MUAD_DIB]

19. And the tagteam keeps on coming. I love it.

[Barack_America]

22. Listen, if you don't want open discussion, don't start a thread.

If you're looking for unconditional agreement, you must know by now that DU is not the kind of place that will give it to you.

Bluebear asked you a valid question. Perhaps you could try addressing it rather than casting yourself as some sort of victim.

[MUAD_DIB]

27. I DO know that DU is populated by experts of every color...

the only problem is that their expertise has rarely been field tested.

They're good at whining about it, though.


On edit: If you were able to read you would have seen that I did answer.

We elected Obama to lead. Why should I expect an hourly update?

[Barack_America]

29. It's almost as ridiculous as whining about the whining, isn't it?

[MUAD_DIB]

31. Not really. I like calling other on their BS.

[dgibby]

56. You invited it when you decided to snark on the OP's user name.

If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

[girl gone mad]

30. No one could accuse him of leading now.

[MUAD_DIB]

34. GGM, I would not want his job for a billion Euros.

Obama's job sucks right now, and everybody wants to play "expert" on the oil disaster.

Not me. I just want to know that something is happening in a constructive way during this nightmare.

[Bluebear]

60. paranoid much?

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Barack_America]

15. Well, I know that 30 days after the spill, BP is recovering about 5% of what is being spewed...

...out daily and only now says that they are "thinking" about shutting the well down entirely.

In the meantime, heavy oil is washing onto LA beaches is spreading to other gulf states, and possibly the entire Atlantic seaboard due to its being swept up by the gulf loop current.

I also know that this is somehow not supposed to matter because Obama isn't responsible for the spill itself.

Can you tell me exactly what you see Obama doing other than speaking some mildly harsh words to BP?

[MUAD_DIB]

17. You seem to have all the answers. What would you do...legally?

[Barack_America]

21. See post #20.

Thanks.

[MUAD_DIB]

24. Comments like this constitute a fucking joke.

You're welcome.

How do you know what actions are being taken? What arrogance is it that the POTUS has to check in with you every 15 minutes only to be shreded by the media and everybody else for being weak.

Are you seriously that inept?

[Barack_America]

33. Well, if Obama has been threatening BP, they sure as hell aren't listening.

And he sure as hell isn't talking about it.

So it seems my choices are a President who is not adequately addressing this issue or one who is, but is ineffective and unwilling to disclose his true efforts?

Yikes. Seems like a lose-lose situation.

[MUAD_DIB]

35. I love the crystal ball that many of ther DUers have: seeing in to the deep

recesses of the Obama presidency.

Tell me, just what would you be doing right now as POTUS?

[Lyric]

36. Oh please.

Nobody said the President has to check in with any specific person. But he damned well has to check in with AMERICA in general when there's a major crisis. We The People DO have a right to know what the hell is going on. That's part of the fucking job description when you're a PUBLIC servant, especially in the highest national office in the entire country. If he doesn't like it or agree with it, he shouldn't have asked us to hire him. You said, "How do you know what actions are being taken?" That's the POINT, genius--we DON'T know, and we NEED to. :eyes:

I don't really give a rat's rear end one way or another about Obama's image and whether or not he's afraid that he might look "weak". I can't even imagine how you could think that such a petty, shallow thing could even be RELEVANT at a time like this. And you have the gall to call other people arrogant and inept? Jesus.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

11. You're right

The President clearly has been picking his nose on the issue.

[Barack_America]

25. I don't see any details regarding the government's role in the cleanup.

It's all well and good to provide funding for supportive measures, but they don't address the issue at hand: there is an oil geyser in the gulf and BP has shown themselves to be incapable and/or unwilling to stop it and unable to clean up the mess.

[MUAD_DIB]

32. Alright. Answer time. What are you going to do about it?

You are now POTUS. What are you going to do?

[Barack_America]

37. I'm pretty sure I detailed that in post #20.

1. I would drag the CEO of BP's ass away from his birthday party in England to my office.
2. I would inform him that the time for BP to minimize the economic effect of the spill on their company by focusing on collecting oil rather than killing the well is over.
3. I would give him a deadline for the well to be killed.
4. I would inform him that, should the deadline not be met, that I would be willing to spend considerable political capital to insure that the cap on economic liability for oil spills be lifted in Congress.
5. I would further inform him that his company's future drilling permits are in great jeopardy.
6. I would ensure that other BP rigs be inspected top to bottom ASAP and immediately shut down if they are not in perfect compliance.
7. I would bring top scientists and representatives from the Coast Guard, Navy, etc. in to make a plan for a complete government takeover of the cleanup efforts.

That's how I would start.

[MUAD_DIB]

48. Well...

1. The USA doesn't have jurisdiction in the UK.

2. Probably has already been expressed.

3. Probably has already been expressed.

4. Probably has already been expressed.

5. Probably has already been expressed.

6. Probably has already been expressed.

7. Probably has already been expressed.


So you're just complaining for the sake of complaining, or is it that Obama hasn't personally called you for your opinion?

[Barack_America]

50. "Probably" may be enough for you, but it's not enough for me.

And it's not "whining" to demand answers.

But, whatever, there's obviously no winning with you. You demand in not one, but several posts, that I detail what I would do differently. You then fail to address any of the issues I raise and accuse me of merely complaining. And when people present valid questions to you directly, you avoid them and instead complain about being "ganged up on". You're not really here to debate, you're just here to insult anyone who would question the President.

[MUAD_DIB]

52. Solutions, sweetheart. I'm looking for solutions.

All I see is finger pointing, hand wringing and crying for the sake of just that.

[Lyric]

45. Take over the cleanup efforts in the ocean.

Take over efforts to stop the leak, as BP obviously has other priorities. Start a temporary WPA-style work organization to hire laborers who desperately NEED jobs right now, train them, and send them down to the Gulf to start cleaning the beaches and wetlands. Force BP to disclose to the public exactly what's going on, how LONG it's been going on, exactly how much oil is leaking into the Gulf every day, and what their corporate plan is to heal the long-term damage. Start hammering Congress to get rid of any liability caps that might be standing in the way of forcing BP and Transocean to take full and personal responsibility for this mess. Address the nation at least once a week on TV to explain what's going on and what the current government efforts are to address the incoming problems like creeping ocean pollution via the loop current, wildlife casualties, wetland damage and cleanup, the fishing industry crisis, the tourism/state economy issues, potential health problems, corporate accountability, and ensuring that this never happens again.

You know...be a leader?

:eyes:

[ProSense]

38. That's part of the President's response.

Yeah, he has a lot to do, including protecting and supporting the victims of the spill.

Since you asked for more, here.

[Barack_America]

41. Maybe I'm a stickler for details, but I see a lot of "assessing" and "discussing" there...

And not a lot of detail about actual clean up by government resources.

[ProSense]

43. Or maybe you're not looking hard enough n/t

[Barack_America]

46. If I have to search with a magnifying glass to learn the response of my govt. to a crisis...

...that is a problem.

[ProSense]

47. It took me five seconds to find. n/t

[Barack_America]

49. Then post it.

I looked through the link you posted. The "ongoing response timeline" is the only thing that provided any concrete details about what's being done and I saw no evidence there that the government is on the ground (or water) doing anything other than "monitoring" and pointing at oil for BP to (hopefully) cleanup.

The problem with that site is it confuses what BP is doing for government action, unless you look closely. Considering BP has shown that it can't handle this crisis, I want to know explicitly what my government is doing to pick up the slack.

[noise]

14. To paraphrase Biden

This is a big fucking deal. The pattern during the Bush years was that Bush wanted all the prestige and power of the Presidency but none of the responsibility.

The only thing that matters is stopping the leak ASAP. This is not the time for consensus.

[jillan]

59. Bingo!

[bluestateguy]

3. Unrecced.

[Drunken Irishman]

4. You're right. It's his fault...whatever it is we're talking about.

Down with Bama!

[Barack_America]

8. Nice canned response.

By your logic, then nothing is Obama's fault and he might as well just golf his way through his Presidency.

[Drunken Irishman]

39. No. I don't know WTF we're talking about.

[NanceGreggs]

10. Absolutely his fault.

Who could possibly dispute that?

Okay, facts aside - who could possibly dispute that?

[Barack_America]

20. Bush was also not responsible for Katrina, but he was responsible for the government's response...

...to it.

I've disliked the threads claiming that "this is Obama's Katrina" because I don't feel that is a fair comparison to make given the nature of the disasters. However, the point still remains that one can both be not at fault for the causation of a problem, but responsible for its solution. That, IMO, is the position the WH finds themselves in and I am disheartened to see them pass the buck back to BP, a corporation that has clearly shown that its best interests are its primary concern, not the interests of ecosystems or the economies of the gulf states. We would not accept this as an adequate response from Bush and should not accept it from Obama.

Contrary to some of the hyperbole expressed on this thread, I do not expect Obama to don a wet suit and swim to the bottom of the ocean. What I do expect him to do is place demonstrably greater pressure on BP to shut down the well NOW. I expect him to be giving greater support to the efforts to remove the cap for liability regarding spills. I expect to hear a detailed plan about how the government is planning to take control of the cleanup when BP inevitably fails. I do not think this is too much to expect from a man I spent months working tirelessly to elect.

[ProSense]

23. The similarities are astounding

President Obama ate cake.




President Obama pretended to play the guitar.





In a year, President Obama is expected to do a phony fly over and hand out flags






It's Obama's Katrina.

[Barack_America]

28. Try reading posts before responding.

Where, exactly, did I claim this to be "Obama's Katrina"?

And can you describe for me the impact that the Obama administration has had in BP's response to the spill? You seem to be claiming that Obama has achieved results. If so, what are they? Is there any evidence that BP is getting real pressure from Washington to end this immediately? From what I've heard, this week BP has been working on maximizing their profits from the spill and are considering kiling the well only hypothetically as a last ditch resort. Really? I certainly hope that's not acceptable to the WH, but I have to assume it is considering I've heard nothing to the contrary.

[Drunken Irishman]

40. The problem here is that you don't know what he is doing.

None of us do. None of us really know what to do. No one does. This isn't a hurricane. It's not something we saw a week out and then something that could have been easily controlled through mass public outreach. Bush failed with Katrina because he sat by and did nothing while an entire town was swallowed by water.

This is different because there doesn't seem to be one answer to any of it. Obama can say or do anything, but in the end, it seems no one has a concrete solution to end the spill.

[Barack_America]

42. Isn't that a problem? That none of us know what he is doing?

Honestly, I would feel much more at ease if he simply came out and threatened to end BP if they didn't begin killing the well immediately.

[Drunken Irishman]

54. Well maybe he has.

I don't think he needs to tell us every little thing. That's why he's president and we're not. Granted, I think it's important to keep American people out of the dark - but I don't doubt Obama is doing everything possible to make sure this doesn't end up being his Katrina.

You know, people act as if Obama wants to fail. I don't believe he does. He's not shown me to be an inept leader at any point, so yeah, I guess I do have more faith in his dealings than Bush.

But sometimes, and this is hard for people to grasp, there is no correct solution to something this catastrophic. Maybe there should be. But then again, it isn't like we've dealt with anything like this before. This isn't a natural disaster in the sense that it happened and ended. We know how to deal with earthquakes and tornadoes, right? We know how to get aid to the people and set up camps for those who lost their homes. We know how to act in that instance and when an earthquake or tornado or hurricane ends, it generally, outside of aftershocks in the case of a quake, is over. The dealing there is with the clean up and making sure people don't starve, die, freeze or any other act that could come with living in a disaster zone.

But this...this is more. It's evolving. We're not only having to deal with cleanup, but the fact this isn't ending. It'd be like dealing with the post-quake cleanup as 7.0 quakes hit every hour.

I can't help but believe the WH is doing everything in their power to make sure they get this under control. The ramifications go beyond the environment - it goes to the core of Obama's political future. I have a hard time buying he'd be so passive knowing what is at stake.

With that said, even if he were to do what you said, it's not a guarantee for anything. That's the problem.

Someone mentioned subs. Well only four nations have subs capable of going that deep into the ocean. That isn't Obama's fault. And what would they do when they got down there? They're not equipped to plug up a huge hole.

So again, it seems every last person is lost as to what to do. Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try this or that - and I think the WH is - it just means that this is no easy task and to sit there and say Obama needs to be held accountable defies the current facts of the situation, IMO.

[MUAD_DIB]

55. Spot on DI.

That is it in a nutshell.

[Drunken Irishman]

58. Thanks, MUAD.

I understand the concerns of many DUers, but this is a mess all around. It's not an easily fixed situation or it would've been fixed.

I think we're getting closer, though.

[nenagh]

61. Absolutely agree..

The 'fixes' are complex and 'parts' needed take time to be created and tested.. They don't want to blow out the well entirely..

And the relief wells have to reach nearly the same depth as the original well in order to safely stop the blown out well.
Because of changing pressures as one drills deeper in the earth, if you try to stop the well at a higher level you risk blowing out that well as well and creating a mega disaster.

But I want to see Obama take charge of the environmental data of oil plumes etc and have that ready for future lawsuits against BP.

[MUAD_DIB]

53. You don't understand the DU mindset.

They are looking for the easy answer and solution to everything where once doesn't exist.

[truedelphi]

67. Some of us not only know one of the main things that this President is going to lose votes for

And it's his own damn fault, we understand the repurcussions.

And that is that his Administration has not at all been truthful. When the Coast Guard prevents our news people from getting video coverage, and then when BP can say that it is some puny lil figure in terms of barrels of oil, per day, when it is really over ONE MILLION BARRELS A DAY, then the President is going to come under blame.

And good that he will. Unless of course he and Michelle were planning on spending their own money to repair the several generations' worth of damage that this catastrophe will cause.

We need every single ounce that BP has leaked to be reported and to be reported accurately, so that when it is time to fine those people, they will really have to dig down and dig deep.

[noise]

26. The BP execs come across as sociopaths

What are they adding to the solution? This like Paulson demanding secrecy after the banking BS.

This is a disaster and BP execs are talking about how big the ocean is. Outrageous.

[Swamp Rat]

7. YOU GODDAMN RIGHT!!!

:grr:

[Fearless]

44. +1

[havocmom]

64. +1000

:applause:

[EFerrari]

66. . . .

:(

:grouphug:

[Eric Condon]

57. Because corporations are behind them as well as a large portion of "the Left,"

aka the people who SHOULD be holding them to task. When you've got a coalition like that (i.e. corporations + the only people who care when corporations do wrong) then you can't lose.

[nichomachus]

63. You become the thing you hate

The knee-jerk "Obama can do no wrong" crowd on DU is eerily similar to the pro-Bush people on Free Republic a few years ago.

[G_j]

68. if you criticized Bush's policies the RW called you a Bush-Hater

just change one word..

Cheap way to avoid talking policy.

[truedelphi]

65. + 2.