I don't get it. Why is the government just standing around waiting for BP to solve the problem?

[Towlie]

Call me naive if you must, but if a major corporation somehow started a big fire in a national forest, would the government sit back and wait for them to put it out? Of course not. They'd immediately send it fire fighters from all over, along with any other resources they could gather, and take charge of the disaster.

Instead of expecting purely profit-motivated BP to come up with a solution of their own, why doesn't the government tell them to "get the hell out of the way; you've done quite enough already" and take charge of saving the Gulf of Mexico and our East Coast?

[Scurrilous]

1. You're right.

You don't get it.

[allincompassing]

5. You Call This Standing Around?

From a previous DU post....http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/site/2931

[Towlie]

12. Now that you've gotten the arrogant abuse out of your system, could you elaborate?

[time_has_come]

48. You have a low measure for abuse. But for starters...

...this is a quite different than a forest fire. If it only were the case, i would share your sentiment.

[Bitwit1234]

25. Someone said it is in International Waters therefore the US

has no authority to demand that they be allowed to go after the leak. I don't know if that is true or not. But since the oil is drifting toward our country we should have some rights don't you think?

[TampaAnimus2010]

91. Because all the leading oil experts work for the government right?

They got their oil well closing tiger team on stand by I'm sure.

[truedelphi]

2. Rahm has told Obama that is the most politically safe manner of acting.

Now some here report on how legislation from back in the day of the Valdez indicates that the President MUST leave the matter in the hands of the Offending Oil Company and not get involved.

Now even if that is the case, then it still does not explain the Administration allowing for BP to state that only 5,000 barrels a day of oil are leaking. When the real estimate based on Satellite and spacecraft imaging indicates that it is the millions of gallons a day figure.

[gateley]

16. This is such a critical situation, couldn't they enact some emergency legislation -

Hell, this is such a critical situation I think they'd be justified in saying fuck the legislation and doing whatever the hell we can do, including confiscating their equipment for their use. Let them take us to court.

[truedelphi]

36. You'd think so, woudldn't you? n/t

[stray cat]

3. Who are you going to send and what expertise do they have to work a mile under water

where subs are immediately crushed due to the pressure and gasses can freeze? As far as I can see the only ones who have the equipment and expertise are oil specialists.

What would really be great is if the oil companies gave up and walked away and then DUers could fix the problem of course.

[Towlie]

11. "the only ones who have the equipment and expertise are oil specialists." Okay, then let's get them!

Are all the oil specialists in the world employed by BP and working together on this? I don't think so.

[gateley]

14. I would think we could force them to let us use their equipment - damn the

laws.

[doc03]

23. So they have to show novices how to operate the equipment

while x billion gallons of oil fill the Gulf. Could you just take the weapons from our military and give them to a bunch of civilians to operate. Unless maybe we send in Rambo or Aaaanold I think people experienced in the deep water drilling are the ones to fix the mess not some government desk jockey.

[northernlights]

27. no. you just knock the sr. executives out of the equation

go to the people who actually *do* the job -- including supervisors and managers too -- and give them the marching order. Right now they're being given wrong marching orders: how can we siphon this off? how can we hide the oil?

Give them a new marching order:

1. Plug the geyser up with minimum collateral damage.


And bring in our marine biology/oceanography scientists to evaluate dispersants for least toxic/most effective (versus more profits for BP, who owns a piece of COREXIT).

[doc03]

28. And you know all that, are you there working on it? n/t

[northernlights]

34. I don't have to be there working on it to know how large multinational corporations work nt

[laughingliberal]

85. Well, we don't know. And why? "These are BP rules, not ours."

[gateley]

33. There may be others who are proficient and have experience with that equipment.

BP isn't the only oil company in the world. We could staff it with experts who report to us, not to BP with the main concern of saving as much oil as possible.

[TheKentuckian]

51. What novices? Are you under the impression that BP has the only experts in this area?

We've got American oil companies and those around the world to draw from.

It also could be a test for others in the industry, they get a perfect chance to demonstrate their ability to deal with something like this so we don't have to ban them in our waters and use the full pressure and resources of the US government to shut down all such production in the world.

[glitch]

30. We hire contractors all the time but somehow in an extreme emergency it's not possible?

The "we don't have the skills" meme should never have made it out of committee.

[laughingliberal]

84. +1 nt

[ShamelessHussy]

40. the military, and their scientist, for starters, and we could commandeer any tools and people needed

from the perps is they were unwilling to assist.

fyi

[bluerum]

4. The government has offices, bureaucracy and tax collectors. How are

they supposed to stop a leak when companies that are supposed to have the technical know how can't fix it?

I agree that the government needs to apply a very firm hand and demand immediate solutions as well as reparations. Take everything BP, Halliburton, Transocean have and get people who know how to fix the leaks and hire them.

That's what the government needs to do.

[doc03]

29. No our fellow DUers want to make this Obama's Katrina

here we go again the Republicans have managed to turn the blame for this disaster on the Democrats. I hear the same crap coming from my Repug friends. It's all the Democrat's fault vote them out of office in November we'll show em.

[JBoy]

6. They should immediately send

all the government engineers and scientists with experience in capping deep ocean oil wells.

[quaker bill]

20. I think they have

and I hear they drove a mini cooper,

[jp11]

7. Read these.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8381996

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8391811

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/doc/2931/543771/

[ZombieHorde]

8. We have a trained fire department already in place, so the analogy is not very strong. nt

[William Z. Foster]

9. good analogy

The only good thing to come out of this is that it has led to a debate about the role of government. It surprised me to see how many people here have so little understanding of the most fundamental ideas about social organization, lacking in any knowledge about history, civics, government and politics.

People arguing for privatization of the management of this crisis are arguing against the very concept of government, against any ideas of civilized society or cooperative communities or the public welfare. That is the extreme right wing position - once a tiny fringe - yet they are able to pass as Democrats, liberals and progressives. Amazing that this has flown under the radar for so long, and it is a good thing now that we can see where people stand.

[allincompassing]

10. + 1000

[seabeyond]

37. good analogy? for real? water puts out fire. they dont know how to stop the gusher. that is a

good analogy.

pathetic

[William Z. Foster]

109. interesting

People are openly arguing a pre-Enlightenment position here on the proper role of government.

The government did not know how to send craft into space, either, when NASA was established. So what?

Arguing that private interests have the know how, and the government does not, so therefore government can't do anything is asking us to roll the clock back to before the era of monarchies. It is a very extreme right wing libertarian position, because it undermines the very concept and purpose of government itself.

I can't tell, but would be interested to know, if this "the government doesn't have the technical know-how" talking point is being intentionally inserted into the discussion, or if people have actually so internalized the right wing propaganda that they are coming up with this stuff on their own. Either explanation is pretty alarming.

[theoldman]

13. The government has an Army and a Navy which it can send out in time of need.

The government does not have oil spill troops and their equipment. I could add coal mine disaster troops and rescue equipment. Perhaps the bottom line is that not even the oil companies are equipped to handle a spill like this.

[renegade000]

15. Ok, think about your example.

The government HAS firefighting expertise. Forest fires happen all the time, and we've become very adept at combating them.

How many times has a geyser of oil formed underneath thousands of feet of water? Not nearly enough to have GO-teams of experts with the appropriate equipment for this type of scenario. And well, the people with the most experience with industrial operations in these environments are unfortunately the oil companies.

[thecrow]

21. You are very right.

The thing is, they DO have all the expertise.
Unfortunately they didn't have "Plan B" ready to go at a moment's notice.
Like that congress critter pointed out to the company presidents,
"We have airline safety because we put all our very best measures into action
while the plane is still on the ground.... er... why didn't BP have that?"

However, I would think that some other *not BP* minds need to work on this...
Where are the other oil companies on this?
We are like the hand-wringing family members waiting to hear the report of the surgery.
We can only wish that we knew what to do, but it's maddening to wait for the doctors to do their job.

Otherwise, maybe Obama can fly down there with a bunch of DUers who know better than the experts
and he can stop the oil volcano by stuffing it with his super cape. And without a teleprompter!
I wish he could.!

I just saw that oil is washing up on Daytona Beach.
My life this week has been one rage after another, and then bursting out crying because this
disaster is going to kill a lot of sea creatures.
I hope that they get out of the poison waters and that they'll come back soon.
The wetlands? Another story.

:(

[William Z. Foster]

26. not relevant

The government provides leadership, oversight, coordination and most importantly the protection of the public interest.

[seabeyond]

38. lets see all.... facts are not relevant. lordy. no wonder i have stayed out of these threads. nt

[William Z. Foster]

42. I didn't say that

I didn't say that "facts are irrelevant" or anything close to that.

[seabeyond]

43. we know how to put out fires. we dont know how to cap gusher... irrelevant

you say.

facts are irrelevant to you.

not only close, but i say that is exactly what you said

????

[William Z. Foster]

44. let's try again

I said that government expertise or technical skill is not relevant to the issue of the response of the crisis being managed publicly, or privatized. That is the debate. One side is arguing for privatization, the other for public management of the response. Whether or not the government currently has the personnel or resources to solve the crisis is not relevant, since the government marshals, assembles and directs what is needed. That is why it should be managed by the government for the public benefit, rather than privatized for private benefit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. You are aware that the man in charge is a USCG Admiral right?

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/doc/2931/559191/

Perhaps you were not.

Of course these are not facts either that will make a difference.

[William Z. Foster]

58. what?

Should or should not the response to the catastrophe be federalized for the protection of the public interest and welfare?

Is it or is it not to a large degree privatized now?

So much obfuscation and distraction.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. The Incident commander is a USCG Admiral

the CG Commandant in fact... them are pesky facts.

[William Z. Foster]

65. right, understood

There are 12 inches to a foot. Another pesky fact.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. You cannot deal wiht facts, that contradict your world view

can you?

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/doc/2931/559191/

There, you get it again...

the US Navy is also involved in case you want to use the google, I forgot their pollution control teams.

But deep water drilling and control, we ain't in the bidness.

You cannot handle facts, even when presented with them.

By the way... would you rather have the navy and the USCG not be involved? I mean that would confirm YOUR world view.

[William Z. Foster]

70. sure I can

Is this a joke?

From your link...

"Health, Safety, and Environment (HSE) workers contracted by BP clean up oil..."

"...workers contracted by BP load oily waste..."

"A Health, Safety, and Environment (HSE) worker contracted by BP collects oil..."

"Hundreds of HSE contract workers are cleaning up oil..."

"A contract worker from Health, Safety, and Environment (HSE) loads oily waste onto a trailer..."

"Melvin Silvestre, a contractor for Oilmop, helps clean the Port Fourchon coast..."

"The U.S. Coast Guard is working in partnership with BP PLC"



I rest my case.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Yes and your point?

INCIDENT COMMANDER IS A US COAST GUARD ADMIRAL... got it?

No you don't...

I mean the US government is not doing a thing... never mind all the evidence to the contrary presented.

[William Z. Foster]

100. another straw man argument

I did not say that "the US government is not doing a thing" did I?

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. Yes yes you did

you also accused me of being a Libertarian.

So there you go... you make your straw men, get proven wrong and claim you did not.

Oh and you have YET to deal with ANY of the damn facts on the ground and the Faustian choice we have as a nation. Recognizing the FACTS as they stand is the first step in changing things.

Alas I don't believe at this point you have a clue of how the government is working at this time... all your strawmen and red herrings aside. And you like to attack people because they don't agree with you.

I will repeat what I told you before. If you got trouble dealing with facts, there is this little thing called LA, LA, LA, otherwise known as the ignore button.

[nenagh]

17. If you are angry and really want to learn the reason why Obama can't take over..

go to "The Oil Drum" blog.. and learn about the technical information about what it takes to stop that well....

It is not pretty reading.... In fact it is downright scary sometimes to envision what has to happen to stop the flow of oil..

In order for this 'top shot' to occur, BP has to create new pieces of machinery that are strong enough to sit in freezing depths of the Gulf of Mexico, which has the consistency of thick pudding apparently and is under great pressure, and feed the lines into the BOP that will shoot the mud into the well to help stop the blow out.

If this doesn't work, the relief wells they are drilling now, have to be drilled down to nearly the level of the blown out well: as one drills thru the rock formations the pressure of those formations changes with the depth and the type of formation.. And unless you take the time to drill down to the level of the blown well, the pressures may not be equalized, and if not the two wells could rupture...

I don't want to see Obama in charge of stopping the oil flow.. but I do want to see him take charge of the environmental side.. get non BP scientists evaluating the plume data and taking water samples for toxicity of the dispersant.. Agree, lets see him get active on the environmental data collection side of things to be ready to take BP to court at least.

Just my 2 cents.

[William Z. Foster]

68. leadership

No one is asking Obama to be an engineer.

The same experts (and many more) will work on the problem - under government direction rather than in a privatized operation, for the public interests and public welfare.

He is the most powerful executive in the world, and he is the representative of the public interest and welfare. He is not someone who we "get active on the environmental data collection side of things."

[lamp_shade]

18. ok

[greencharlie]

19. one question...

if the Administration announced a 1 BILLION DOLLAR reward (of BPS's money) to stop the gusher... to all industries capable...

Does ANYONE here believe it couldn't be completed until August? honestly?

BP is doing it THEIR WAY to preserve their bottom line and their PR. And the Admin is subservient to BP and their campaign donations...

[whyverne]

24. Yeah, I don't believe it.

When it first happened they said it would take months to fix it. That was the horror we had to face. So face it.

[William Z. Foster]

101. I believe you are right

"BP is doing it THEIR WAY to preserve their bottom line and their PR. And the Admin is subservient to BP and their campaign donations..."

That would be consistent with everything that has happened politically over the last few decades, is consistent with the strange behavior by almost all of the Democratic party politicians, explains the scenario we are seeing play out, is consistent with this administration's posture towards big money and big industry and is the simplest, most obvious explanation.

Any other explanation requires far too much faith for any thinking person to believe, and it is misplaced faith at best.

[Roselma]

22. There is a reason...not a good reason, but a reason nevertheless

http://green.yahoo.com/news/ap/20100521/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill_bp_in_charge.html

Month after oil spill, why is BP still in charge?

By MATTHEW DALY

May 21, 2010

(snip)

Still, as simple as it may seem for the government to just take over, the law prevents it, Allen said.

After the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska, Congress dictated that oil companies be responsible for dealing with major accidents — including paying for all cleanup — with oversight by federal agencies. Spills on land are overseen by the Environmental Protection Agency, offshore spills by the Coast Guard.

"The basic notion is you hold the responsible party accountable, with regime oversight" from the government, Allen said. "BP has not been relieved of that responsibility, nor have they been relieved for penalties or for oversight.">>>>>full article at the link above

[glitch]

31. "Regime oversight" would appear to be key words in that paragraph.

edit: like I said above, this particular meme should not have made it out of committee.

[salguine]

32. Because they're so conditioned to having their lips pressed to corporations' asses that they

don't know how to function when they actually need to take charge, that's why.

[Jamastiene]

35. Exactly. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Here is the difference

if there is a fire at a national park, the US Government has firefighters, rigs and trained logistics.

In this case, we don't. You can blame Reagan for this. The USCG USED to have SOME of the capabilities to do this. They haven't for decades.

[ShamelessHussy]

41. nonsense - we have the military, and their scientist, and the authority to commandeer and tool or

personnel required from any org (the perps included) who were unwilling to assist.

fyi

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Legally it does not work that way

and the ONLY piece of equipment we have is the Alvin at Wood's Hole.

Just because we have nuclear submarines does not mean those subs are designed to do this. In fact, they are not. And our deep sea divers cannot go that deep.

As I said, the USCG USED to have some of the gear. You can thank 35 years of privatization as to why we don't.

So here are the two choices we have... use PRIVATE contractors... or... ask governments that actually have that gear, that would be Sweden and Brazil. Or preferably both, since a lot of the equipment is quite proprietary and expensive.

Oh and we have some VERY LIMITED capacity in the USCG to skim oil from the water, that is being done RIGHT NOW

http://cgvi.uscg.mil/media/main.php?g2_itemId=857568

But there is a limit as to how much we can do, and UNLESS they decide the choice is to use a Tac-Nuke, I expect howling here as well, no we don't.

[ShamelessHussy]

47. sorry, but... unless you agree that corporations have more authority than the GOV

that, too... is just plain NONSENSE

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Do point to me the resources in trained personnel

and equipment we have right now to respond.

Please do.

I wish this was like a good ol' fashioned Fire Fighting response in public land... alas it is not.

So find the US Government equipment, beyond the Alvin, and the very limited USCG resources.

I will gladly eat my words.

And yes, I blame Reagan, Bush Sr. Clinton, Junior for this... state of affairs, where we have surrendered Government functions to corporate beasts. Alas that is the reality RIGHT NOW.

[ShamelessHussy]

54. to begin with... ALL the oil companies (not just the PERPS), 2nd foreign states have offered help

ACCEPT IT.

and if the PERPS and their allies are unwilling to cooperate and assist us, then the U.S. Gov has the AUTHORITY and the moral RIGHT to COMMANDEER any and all equipment or personnel required to assist.

the GOV needs to take fucking charge, it is their gotdammend responsibility on a national disaster ESPECIALLY on this scale.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. The US Government IS in charge

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/doc/2931/559191/

Not that this matters... much.

By the way, you got no idea what is happening right now at high levels.

[ShamelessHussy]

61. doesn't look that way from the cheap seats, have you been following this closely?

and sure, i am not invited to any of the meetings, and neither are you... but that doesn't mean I can't have a good idea based on all the players actions.

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that BP is calling most (if not all) of the shots right now in order to protect THEIR interests, and it disgust me, especially that our gov acquiesces... it tells me who the real masters of the universe are.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Ok here is a quetion that might explain some of what you are seeing

tell me, exactly what resources does the CURRENT US Government have to deal with this?

In fact, the USCG has very LIMITED resources to deal with this, why they need contractors. There was a time, before Reagan, that the USCG had far more resources to do this... they don't. So what do you want the USCG to do? Tell BP to vacate the scene and watch while the fuel goes over their very limited booms and other gear?

Now this should be a huge wake up call as to how far the privatization of your and mine government has gone since one President Reagan...

But what do you want them to do? Use the people they have on site that have the equipment and the expertise or just send them on their way and see things turn ten times as bad?

Kind of a faustian choice, huh?

[ShamelessHussy]

69. sorry, i am looking for answers and action... Talk-Action= Shit

you keep repeating yourself, and I keep answering... the GOV has the AUTHORITY to COMMANDEER any and all resources and/or personnel to assist in this EPIC disaster.

so that argument is MUTE.

no one is saying that BP should not assist, but they DEFINITELY shouldn't be call'n the shots.

so i want to see every available asset we have not only trying to stop the gusher, but also moping up and trying to prevent it from hitting shore, i want to see an 'ARMY' out there on land, air, and on/under sea.

and secondly, why aren't we accepting foreign nations help?

and lastly, do you not recognize that the scope of this disaster may be beyond the means of a single nation to respond effectively to, let alone a single corporation?

[Codeine]

72. "So that argument is MUTE."

:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Here is a primer on the Incident Command System

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_Command_System

Try to learn.

[alfredo]

50. The nuke could make the leak worse and then we'd have

radioactive oil washing up on the shore.

Just read that the tail that was feeding into the loop, has broken off.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Rumor has it that the ruskies tried that

in the black sea, but that is not the point. At this time, that is the only thing we have... and a very small device might cap it with a concussive force making the well unusuable, not that I care. BP might, I don't

And the other point still stands. If they decided to try that... the same people going, WHY THEY ARE NOT DOING A THING? Would be howling, they can't possibly think of using a NUKE....

Of course that would be a last ditch effort... and it is truly a what is worst, oil or rads.

[alfredo]

57. The Russians did try it, but in much shallower water.

Either oil or radiation, the gulf will not be a good source of protein for a long time.

It wouldn't just be the concussion that would seal it. The heat will melt the rock and sand. Underground tests out west showed that a glass dome was formed from the blast.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. There you go, an act of desperation

and you will hear the howling if they finally decide... this is the only choice.

I think they will do the relief well first though... that is five to nine months time line, based on the other disaster in the Gulf, the Ixtoc I

[alfredo]

71. Why couldn't they be spewing olive oil? Sure, there should be

a debate over whether the cure is as bad as the disease. I think BP has a good idea of how much oil is in the well and if they delay long enough, the problem will take care of itself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. It is part of a field, not just one well

there is more oil in there than nine months worth of release...

They are having the same problem PEMEX had.

On the bright side... the ecological damage the IXTOX did pretty much "cleaned itself" by year ten and the fisheries came back.

No, that is not a relief to the fishermen, but having some perspective helps.

This is bad, and it may very well lead to some dead zones (which we already have due to the release of agricultural crap every year anyway, not that anybody talks about that since it is far less... sexy)... but it is not the end of life on Earth... hell, not even human life. It should serve as a wake up call as to WHY we need to move away from oil, and all that... but the hysterics, given history are not justified.

Will it be bad, yes. Will it be as bad as some folks think it will be... no.

That is the good news. The bad news, it will be bad enough.

Oh and the other wake up moment this should offer, not that it will, is how far down the rabbit hole we've gone in privatizing what should not be privatized.

[alfredo]

95. One way to cripple the power BP and other corporations have over our government

is to have public funding for federal elections, and full disclosure on political ads by corporations and individuals, even if it means cutting into content.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. And that is a whole different discussion and you have

no argument from me.... but Citizens United tells you where the current US Supreme Court is at, and until that is repealed by the USSC... we are stuck.

[alfredo]

97. Congress could pass a law, and then let the courts handle it down the road.

Fat chance they'd allow that to happen. McConnell would sacrifice our lives to prevent it. He wouldn't sacrifice his own.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. So that leaves us with CITIZEN action

unfortunately given the last eight years... (and no, not the people, but mostly the press and other things) I don't count on it. Not until, and here is the rub... there is blood in the water. I mean this in the LITERAL sense...

And I doubt the American People have it in them at this time. We are not suffering enough yet.

[alfredo]

107. As they say "Waiting until the wolf is at the door."

[TheKentuckian]

46. Apparently because of a mix of impotence, fear of TPTB, and ducking blame

At least that's what those supporting "BP has got this" seem to be expressing.

[HughMoran]

63. Government is not standing around though

TODAY: Saturday, MAY 22

The Unified Area Command continues to work closely together with the Responsible Party and Federal, State, local and tribal partners in anticipating requirements, identifying response options, and rapidly providing response support.



The following is a synopsis of our daily response efforts:

Total response vessels: 1150

Containment Boom deployed: more than 1.52 million feet

Containment boom available: more than 310,000 feet

Sorbent boom deployed: more than 560,000 feet

Sorbent boom available: more than 1.27 million feet

Total boom deployed: more than 2 million feet (regular plus sorbent boom)

Total boom available: more than 1.58 million feet (regular plus sorbent boom)

Oily water recovered: more than 9.73 million gallons

Surface dispersant used: approximately 630,000 gallons

Subsea dispersant used: approximately 85,000

Total dispersant used: approximately 670,000

Dispersant available: more than 375,000 gallons

Overall personnel responding: more than 24,900



17 staging areas are in place and ready to protect sensitive shorelines. These areas include:

Dauphin Island, Ala.

Orange Beach, Ala.

Theodore, Ala.

Panama City, Fla.

Pensacola, Fla.

Port St. Joe, Fla.

St. Marks, Fla.

Amelia, La.

Cocodrie, La.

Grand Isle, La.

Shell Beach, La.

Slidell, La.

St. Mary, La.

Venice, La.

Biloxi, Miss.

Pascagoula, Miss.

Pass Christian, Miss.



For updated NOAA trajectory maps, click here.

Weather conditions for May 21:

Winds from the Southeast at 12-15 knots in the morning, higher gusts in the evening. 4-5 foot seas, protected waters are rough.

Hotlines:

* For information about the response effort, visit www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com.
* To contact the Deepwater Horizon Joint Information Center, call [phone].
* To volunteer, or to report oiled shoreline, call [phone]. Volunteer opportunities can also be found here.
* To submit your vessel as a vessel of opportunity skimming system, or to submit alternative response technology, services, or products, call 281-366-5511.
* To report oiled wildlife, call [phone]. Messages will be checked hourly.
* For information about validated environmental air and water sampling results, visit www.epa.gov/bpspill.
* For National Park Service updates about potential park closures, resources at risk, and NPS actions to protect vital park space and wildlife, visit http://www.nps.gov/aboutus/oil-spill-response.htm.
* For Fish and Wildlife Service's updates about response along the Gulf Coast and the status of national wildlife refuges, visit http://www.fws.gov/home/dhoilspill/.
* To file a claim, or report spill-related damage, call BP’s helpline at [phone]. A BP fact sheet with additional information is available here. For those who have already pursued the BP claims process and are not satisfied with BP’s resolution, can call the Coast Guard at [phone]. More information about what types of damages are eligible for compensation under the Oil Pollution Act as well as guidance on procedures to seek that compensation can be found here.

[Crystal Clarity]

86. Thank You

for the info. :thumbsup:

[earth mom]

52. Obama & Co & Congress are playing politics and serving their corporate masters.

That's what the hell is going on. :grr:

[HughMoran]

62. I don't think they're just standing around

From the oft-linked to web page:

TODAY: Saturday, MAY 22

The Unified Area Command continues to work closely together with the Responsible Party and Federal, State, local and tribal partners in anticipating requirements, identifying response options, and rapidly providing response support.



The following is a synopsis of our daily response efforts:

Total response vessels: 1150

Containment Boom deployed: more than 1.52 million feet

Containment boom available: more than 310,000 feet

Sorbent boom deployed: more than 560,000 feet

Sorbent boom available: more than 1.27 million feet

Total boom deployed: more than 2 million feet (regular plus sorbent boom)

Total boom available: more than 1.58 million feet (regular plus sorbent boom)

Oily water recovered: more than 9.73 million gallons

Surface dispersant used: approximately 630,000 gallons

Subsea dispersant used: approximately 85,000

Total dispersant used: approximately 670,000

Dispersant available: more than 375,000 gallons

Overall personnel responding: more than 24,900



17 staging areas are in place and ready to protect sensitive shorelines. These areas include:

Dauphin Island, Ala.

Orange Beach, Ala.

Theodore, Ala.

Panama City, Fla.

Pensacola, Fla.

Port St. Joe, Fla.

St. Marks, Fla.

Amelia, La.

Cocodrie, La.

Grand Isle, La.

Shell Beach, La.

Slidell, La.

St. Mary, La.

Venice, La.

Biloxi, Miss.

Pascagoula, Miss.

Pass Christian, Miss.



For updated NOAA trajectory maps, click here.

Weather conditions for May 21:

Winds from the Southeast at 12-15 knots in the morning, higher gusts in the evening. 4-5 foot seas, protected waters are rough.

Hotlines:

* For information about the response effort, visit www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com.
* To contact the Deepwater Horizon Joint Information Center, call [phone].
* To volunteer, or to report oiled shoreline, call [phone]. Volunteer opportunities can also be found here.
* To submit your vessel as a vessel of opportunity skimming system, or to submit alternative response technology, services, or products, call 281-366-5511.
* To report oiled wildlife, call [phone]. Messages will be checked hourly.
* For information about validated environmental air and water sampling results, visit www.epa.gov/bpspill.
* For National Park Service updates about potential park closures, resources at risk, and NPS actions to protect vital park space and wildlife, visit http://www.nps.gov/aboutus/oil-spill-response.htm.
* For Fish and Wildlife Service's updates about response along the Gulf Coast and the status of national wildlife refuges, visit http://www.fws.gov/home/dhoilspill/.
* To file a claim, or report spill-related damage, call BP’s helpline at [phone]. A BP fact sheet with additional information is available here. For those who have already pursued the BP claims process and are not satisfied with BP’s resolution, can call the Coast Guard at [phone]. More information about what types of damages are eligible for compensation under the Oil Pollution Act as well as guidance on procedures to seek that compensation can be found here.

[Blue_In_AK]

66. The Gulf is a crime scene,

BP is the perpetrator. It shouldn't be allowed to tamper with the evidence. Arrest the corporation (it's a "person," after all), remove them from the premises entirely -- that means ALL their operations, and get some experts in there to stop the thing and clean it up as responsibly as possible. BP has absolutely no business running the show.

[slackmaster]

73. Government does have firefighting expertise

Petroleum engineering, not so much.

[hayu_lol]

74. They are standing around...

because none of them play guitar or dance.

[slackmaster]

75. Maybe Hugo Chavez can tell us how to fix it

:sarcasm:

[William Z. Foster]

76. where does this talking point come from?

The government did not have prior "expertise" in anything that it has ever undertaken.

In times of emergency, the government has the authority - and the obligation - to take over management of the project, in this case the response to this catastrophe, to protect the interests of the general public.

Saying that private industry "has the expertise" so therefore the operation needs to remain privatized is the very essence of the extreme libertarian position on this, it is an argument against the very concept and purpose of government.

[slackmaster]

77. Please name some individuals in the federal government who have the expertise to manage the project

I want to know who your "top people" are.

[William Z. Foster]

78. it is a talking point, then

Since you are merely repeating the statement, rather than defending it, we have to assume that it is merely a propaganda talking point.

What expertise did the government have in railroad technology when the USRA was established?

What expertise did the government have in armaments when the WPB was established?

What expertise did the government have in agriculture when the USDA and the Land Grant colleges were established?

What expertise did the government have in aeronautics when NASA was established?

What expertise did the government have in education when public education was established?

You are arguing in favor of privatization, and using a dishonest talking point to promote that.

[slackmaster]

79. I'm not repeating anything. My reply was my own words about my own thoughts.

None of the items in Mr. Foster's list are comparable to the current ACUTE, EMERGENCY situation.

You are arguing in favor of privatization, and using a dishonest talking point to promote that.

That is nonsense. You can't privatize that which is already private.

[William Z. Foster]

80. ok

I like your cat.

[slackmaster]

81. Not me and not my cat, but I love the image

:hi:

[William Z. Foster]

82. how about responding?

Is it a requirement, or is it not, that the government have expertise in an area before we can challenge privatization of that area?

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. They ALREADY are responding

don't matter how many times you are shown that.

[William Z. Foster]

102. you misread

I asked the other member to respond to me, I am not talking about the administration.

By the way, no one is claiming that the government is not responding. We are talking about how the government is responding. Nor is anyone criticizing the people who are working on this on the ground.

[slackmaster]

104. If we were talking about privatizing something, then presumably the government would already...

...have expertise, because the government is operating whatever we are talking about privatizing. Any valid challenge to privatization of that area would have to focus on things like whether or not private industry could do a better job than government is already doing.

I'm still waiting for an answer about who in government would be competent to assume management of the Gulf of Mexico oil leak crisis, and why that person or those people would be better qualified to handle it than the petroleum engineers are doing now.

[Lorien]

83. The big problem with demanding that BP be solely in charge of the cleanup is that

by law, BP CANNOT take any action which does not directly benefit it's stockholders. Thus the oil siphoning and spewing of toxic disperants (which they own the patent to). Drilling additional wells may help solve the problem, but would also benefit BP. So many additional option would have been tried had it not been for the corporate laws which demand a profit motivation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. What part of the US Coast Guard has command of the incident

are people purposely missing?

What part of the US Navy is on scene are people missing.

But the real technical gear, we don't have it. Blame Reagan for that, and Bush Sr, and Clinton and Junior... all you want, but the reality is, we don't.

So like it or not as much as we are in charge, Admiral Thad Allen IS in command, he still has to rely on the private sector for this. By the way the USCG used to have some of that gear at one time.

[SidDithers]

87. What, specifically, do you want the government to do?...nt

Sid

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. What they already have done

the incident commander is one Admiral of the Coast Guard Thad Allen...

Not that this is well publicized. The US Government is having a hell of a problem... in the PR department, by the way.

The Coast Guard is doing what they can given the situation, and the US Navy is deploying the Pollution Control Teams. Unfortunately the real technical gear, we no longer have in guv'ment stock. Yes I blame Reagan on for that. We used to. So like it or not we have to rely on the private contractors on scene... and yes they could ask the Brazilians and Swedes for help, but knowing a little about that false nationalist pride and human nature, don't expect it. Yes it makes sense, but making sense don't mean squat when you are talking of nation states.

And going 'round them is not that easy on this one.

[William Z. Foster]

99. well I do expect it

I expect more than a public relations effort and "false nationalist pride and human nature." I think we have a right to expect more, and I think we should be demanding more. We may not get it, but if we don't demand it we surely will not get it.

If there is technical gear in private hands that is needed, the government has the authority and power to make sure that it is made available.

If there are other nations that could help, the government has the duty to seek and request such help.

[Kievan Rus]

98. Because if the government fixes it, that's SOCIALISM!

:sarcasm:

[Rockholm]

103. If the government touches it, then they own it?

Who knows? I could certainly see BP saying that to the powers that be. You touch it, you own it. Then we are on the hook for the damages, the cleanup, etc. Well, we are going to be responsible one way or another.
I am sick to think of this spill zooming up the East Coast this summer.

[phleshdef]

108. Why are people just sitting around posting fucking LIES about what the government is or isn't doing?