Anyone else having trouble handling the Gulf disaster? I'm nearly 60, and this is one of the worst.

[Faygo Kid]

I vividly remember the Cuban missile crisis, JFK assassination, Vietnam, RFK, MLK, Kent State, Watergate, Chernobyl, Iran hostage crisis, Challenger, 9-11, taking us into the Iraq war, Katrina. And many more.

But this disaster is certainly up there with any of them. And potentially the death of the the Gulf of Mexico. At least. Is anyone else having difficulty coping with the scope of this disaster? I can't remember anything like it; certainly the Exxon Valdez is puny in comparison.

I am stunned. Are you?

[subsuelo]

1. I'm definitely having trouble

I spent the whole day Friday reading through articles and news about it... good thing I guess that i do have other things to do ... (to get me away from it)

[SusanaMontana41]

132. You are not alone.

I am so angry with this administration for allowing this tragedy to continue. Blow up the damn pipe! Put the criminals on trial!

I've defended President Obama on this board many, many times. But now I'm thinking, were we bamboozled? My (now cynical) son, who volunteered for Obama, said today: "The Republicans win by appealing to our fears. Obama won by appealing to our hopes."

How on Earth our country can allow this poisoning to continue day after day after day is beyond my comprehension.

[JDPriestly]

134. Obama cannot do anything about this. Only BP and other experts in the oil industry

can do anything about this. CERCLA is the governing law, most likely. Google it. Also check to see what the EPA is doing. I assure you they are quietly doing all they can.

Oil pollutes. That's what it does. Ask the people of Nigeria about the damage that oil can do to the environment. Before you attack Obama about this, stop driving your car. Stop using oil and gas products altogether. Once you have done that, you have a right to criticize Obama on this.

I am usually the first to criticize Obama, but here, he is doing the best he possibly could. I'm sure that after it's all over, people will point to this and that that could have been done better. Monday-morning quarterbacking is what they call it. But here and now, Obama is handling this very well.

[glowing]

188. What we use for transportation is directly related to what policies are

enacted.. Real public transportation would allow people to be mobile without needing a car.. Be more like Europe, esp on the East Coast of the U.S.... If most families in the U.S. only needed a smallish car to get the family around, that would reduce the number of cars on the roads.. But how is transportation and roads built and maintained? Tax on gas. Duh!! will we ever get off of it if raising funds for roads and transport needs is directly correlated to the number of gallons of gas an American uses to fill up a car or tractor trailor. Is it in the legislators best interest to regulate better fuel standards? Does it make sense for them to push for electric cars or any other type of car other than oil energy?

People cannot just stop or seek out alternatives.. Sure, they can stop buying big, gas guzzling vehicles and sports cars, but they cannot change the market place that dramatically. They cannot make high speed rail transport appear, or better in-city/ suburb transportation to appear. The only thing they can do is to vote. AND we thought we were getting someone who understood alt. energy was more like wind and solar.. and not "clean" coal (which is an oxymoron) or nuclear novelties (which creates a waste by-product we cannot dispose of). We thought we would get someone who was going to work on a new energy grid (I think most people thought a WPA type govt job)... No, little tid bits thrown out as tax breaks and subsidies to the electric co's.. AND exactly how are electric co's "free-market".. How many people actually have a choice in their electric source or water source (I'm not talking about people economically viable who can de-grid themselves with expensive solar panels or private wind mills. Why isn't our govt hiring construction workers to "green", at the very least, the municiple buildings and the schoools.. Do you know how much money could be saved in a school budget by creating a "green" building? Has anyone ever seen some of these schools' electric bill?

We need real change, real leaders, real representatives who will help to build a new path forward to a sustainable society. We need jobs that have meaning and are about building a quality life for everyone.. not just a few having powerful computers that push around bets and ruin the rest of the world. We need a society that provides quality food (not foods filled with additives, chemicals, dyes, HFCS, GMO's). We need to have a society that keeps people under a roof (not a bunch of empty houses owned by international banking conglomerates rotting out neighborhoods and forcing people inot the streets.. and there were way too many in the streets to begin with before this current economic main street depression). We need time with our families (pd time off from working all the time, time to spend with our children at the beginning of life and time to spend with our parents/ grandparents at the end of their life, time to enjoy friends, neighbors, and social gatherings, time feel that life is of quality and not a rush just to maintain the basic necessities).

We need a quality education that lasts a lifetime (companies insist on associate degrees for trade jobs, 4yr degrees to work in an office, a masters or a Doctorate to work in a specialized area.. yet, those same companies refuse to help provide thru taxes a good basic head start with daycare starting at the beginning and trade/ college/ specialization thru and thru.. starting out as debt slaves to the system otherwise there is a limited "start".. these companies are going to get 40yrs or more of production from people, they ought to invest from the very beginning for their insisted qualified professionals.. or as we see, we will be a nation of people asking if they want fries with their order or welcoming each other at big box stores).

AND thru and thru we need quality air, water, and health care. These basics of life should be the goal. Improving on these items should be everyone's goal. By working together and insisting on these things for EVERYONE regardless of race or gender or age, etc, we can achieve that change. We can. But we still need leaders to organize, and we need to listen to one another.. not just shout over top of one another. We need to become more respectful of one another. We need to be patient with one another and ourselves. We need to see through the lies and seek the truth. We need to have compassion for one another and recognize everyone worldwide deserves these things. The lines on the maps drawn up by powerful people who fought wars for those lines on a map are just another way to divide the humanity out of us. Those lines create fears, competition, and a sense of entitlement... Religion does this too in its own way, but tends to be more regional. Those with money and power only remain because they keep us divided... Even now. By working together, we can change the oil policies. This disaster has short term immediate actions that must take place, but we also know its going to be a long haul before its cleaned up. AND we will ALL have to work together to achieve anything. We have to learn how to trust again, but also know when we are purposely being swindled.

[marions ghost]

263. Quality of life... what's at stake

:thumbsup: Don't we deserve BETTER than THIS?!

Yes, we need some BIG changes. You define the bigger picture well.

:hug: for a fighter

[Rocky2007]

225. I'm with JDPriestly on this

I mean really, what do people want Obama to do? There is NOTHING Obama CAN do. He has no magic wand to wave around and stop the flow.

BP screwed up big time and we are going to pay big time for it. -- they most likely will not survive this mess or get new drilling permits in the future. They are history!

[valerief]

229. They will not pay big time for it. They will remain in business. No one will go to prison.

America the Scatological. Shit on us, please.

[Mark D.]

International Waters

Threat to the world. This isn't just the Gulf of Mexico. If it takes weeks or months more to cap this, at the flow rate, there could be impact in South America, or even farther out, though more indirect. THIS IS A WORLD EMERGENCY. If BP's oil is threatening other nations, as it isn't right now, but could be in time, based on a possible future threat, they should act. There is no law against General Electric building thousands of Kevin Costner devices. There is no law against Exxon Mobil and Royal Dutch Shell (even larger oil companies) not having spare tankers with siphoning added to the one measly tube BP has down there now. Five times as many tubes would make a bigger difference. Cheap jerks they are, they could get compensated by the government, which could in turn go after BP to reimburse that, AFTER this is over. We need to hold BP responsible. They need to pay for everything, well, with Haliburton and Transocean for whatever extent they are liable. There will be years of lawsuits. There will be a time for all of that.

Once this is stopped. Stop it first. I don't know what laws, domestic or international, are involved. I don't know fully what other nations, and other engineers do or don't know about stopping this, or cleaning it up in a non-toxic way. I only know this. If every major corporation at least remotely involved in the work and technology involved in this, if every nation, in America, and on Earth, got involved, we would find a solution faster. Where in the world is the rest of the world? All of the above need to be angry bees, descending on a bear (oil) destroying their hive (the oceans). It's that simple. The Zen story remains. A pupil and master are standing in water, doing their martial arts exercises. The pupil asks what he needs to do, to do what seems impossible. The master pushes his head under the water. The pupil flails and struggles to break free, just to breathe. When he's escaped and taking a breath of air again, the master says: "When you struggle for it as you struggled to breathe just now, you will find your answer."

[SusanaMontana41]

249. With due respect,

this is not Monday morning quarterbacking, unless you're counting all the Mondays since this disaster occurred. The feds have the resources, the right and the muscle power to stop this leak; instead, this White House has chosen to defer to BP. I refuse to believe that BP has cornered the market on experts.

JDPriestly: "Oil pollutes. That's what it does. Ask the people of Nigeria about the damage that oil can do to the environment. Before you attack Obama about this, stop driving your car. Stop using oil and gas products altogether. Once you have done that, you have a right to criticize Obama on this."

Your hubris is breathtaking. Don't you DARE tell me I don't have the right to criticize my president! Are you familiar with the First Amendment? By your "logic," I can't criticize the wars because I haven't enlisted. That's an argument the other side uses.

Thanks for playing. Have a nice day.

[RuthK]

210. Current state of affairs

I outdo you in age. I am 74 and can still remember WWII. I remember getting in trouble for playing with "meat tokens". Yes, we had rationing back then. We didn't fund our wars by borrowing from China. We paid for them ourselves. When that war ended, I was overjoyed. We had one radio and I thought that with the war over there would be no more news programs and I could listen to the Lone Ranger.

I don't think that Obama can declare a national emergency and take over. We have allowed ourselves to become dependent on the oil companies (especially during the previous administration). If Obama takes over, BP and possibly other oil companies will retaliate. Are you ready to wait in line for hours to gas up your car? Are you ready to pay double than now for gas? I believe that is what will happen.

The multi-national companies are so powerful that I don't think they can be stopped. They also nearly own governments. It is not just oil. Monsanto is buying up seed companies in the hopes of controlling food. The drug companies are trying to get rid of dietary supplements so we will be sicker and buy more drugs. A comment on that: I'm old enough to remember when the "recommended daily allowance" for supploements was called the "minimum daily requirement". It's the amount needed to stave off things like scurvy and beri-beri. Is that health? Big oil and big food care nothing about climate change or the toxins they generate. From their point of view, everything is there to be used and destroyed.

I am very afraid that ordinary people are being viewed the same as factory farm animals. We exist only to consume those things that profit corporations and big pharma. Staff in our so-called regulatory agencies are usually associated with the corporations they are supposedly regulating - the fox and hen house syndrome.

I have never in my life been so scared of what is coming next.

[SusanaMontana41]

254. Yes, I am willing to wait in line, pay more at the pump, whatever it takes

If that's what you mean by oil companies retaliating, it's OK by me. They won't cut us off. We're a cash cow for them, as you said in your post.
And why can't the president declare a national emergency? It is a national emergency!

Yes, you do outdo me in age.:) But neither of us is old. Good post, RuthK. Take care.

*edited for grammar

[drm604]

218. Excuse me? Is this really a serious post?

Do you honestly believe that Obama has the ability to stop this and isn't doing so?

Blow up the damn pipe? WTF?

"How on Earth our country can allow this poisoning to continue day after day after day is beyond my comprehension."

I'll help you comprehend it. Nobody knows how to stop it! It's that simple, and blowing things up won't help.

[subsuelo]

226. I for one do not believe we have a military incapable of putting a halt to this thing

There has to be some technology that can bomb the thing that will simply plug it all up.

[drm604]

227. In all respect, I for one believe that you for one are mistaken.

This is new territory. There's never been a leak this deep and nobody knows what an explosion would do. It could make it worse. We just don't know.

They never should have been drilling this deep to begin with, because nobody knows how to stop this kind of leak at this depth.

[subsuelo]

232. well.. perhaps we can agree that we both don't know for sure

It gets very problematic if in fact the military does have technology that could plug it up... whether that is a bomb or what, I can't say. But if in fact the military does have the means, we have numerous questions to deal with. One being, why haven't they done so yet - what's holding them back? And if they wait, say another month or even another week, will it be too late to deploy this method (which we admittedly are in disagreement on if something exists). I mean, at some point, you can't just deploy this bomb or whatever and plug it up, or everyone will say where the hell you been?

I wish I could agree with you that such a technology does not exist... it makes these kinds of problems a bit simpler to deal with. I really don't know, maybe you're right - I just think we have the world's largest superpower, a military with an astronomical budget. And nobody has an idea how to plug up an oil leak like this?

Now that I think about it, I'm less inclined to agree with you actually... you're telling me that over the years and years of drilling for oil, that nobody has spent any time in the military thinking about this very problem. A rather big 'What-If' scenario we're talking about here. Nobody has anything prepared to deal with it? I just don't think so. What I think is really going on is, BP is demanding that this well is protected so that once a relief well is put in place, they can start sucking it out and jump back in the business of making their profits. If it gets bombed and the well effectively destroyed, they lose everything. I'm afraid that is the real storyline we're dealing with here.

Again, this is all speculation on my part. In the end I have to say I don't know.

[SusanaMontana41]

256. Well how 'bout that? We just found common ground.

I especially agree with your second sentence. They shouldn't have been drilling to begin with. If you want, check out the link I posted on this thread (I think it was a response to your criticisms of my opinions, but not sure).

And I apologize for any snarkiness in any of my responses to you. I know better than to take criticisms personally. Take care. :hi:

[Mark D.]

251. Good Point

I don't believe the prez is dragging his feet. I only suggest he do one other thing, declare it a national emergency, put every resource into it, those are positives perhaps. But he need to go to the UN. This isn't Al Gore saying it's a world emergency in 20 years if we don't act now. This is what could be the worst oil spill in world history. It could effect several nations if not continents. I have no clue how to stop this. Nobody in the world does. But nobody in the world is panicking or involved. That's the other nations, and corporations. There are dozens if not hundreds of large energy companies around the world sitting there hoping BP can stop it to save the reputation of corporations like that.

So WhyTF aren't they all in conference calls, with translators, every day, putting in 16 hour days, going over every technology available to them? Fully paid for by the US govt (BP will be forced to repay that) to figure out solutions. What's missing is global urgency. The US is 1/20th of the worlds population, and the only nation fully involved in this now. We are too big to fail, we will fail if the Gulf fails, even if the oil doesn't reach Europe's shores in a diluted fashion. Which it will if this goes on for months, the US going double dip into recession for complete systems failure of the Gulf, and possibly southern east coast. This will have a huge impact on the rest of the world. We have had plenty of pre-emptive strikes by international coalitions. What about one in the Gulf?

[SusanaMontana41]

253. "Nobody knows how to stop it"? Experts disagree with you:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6427

"Or, to stop that rock crushing from happening and to reinforce the rock, we can pump a layer of concrete into the bottom of the well, cementing a steel liner into the rock, just as we cased the well higher up the well. The steel liner, or production casing, has, however, one problem. Once it is cemented into place, there is this hollow tube all the way to the surface, but there is no way that the oil can get through the cement and the steel into that passage.

And this is where Her Majesty's Explosive comes in. Small, specially designed, explosive charges, known as shaped charges are now put together into specifically designed charge packages, and lowered down into the well into the completion zone."

Yes, I honestly believe the White House is deferring too much to BP. Yes, I am furious about it.

"I'll help you comprehend it."
I don't need your help comprehending anything, but thanks anyway.

[gateley]

2. Yes, because I don't think we can even imagine the damage that

is being done that will affect us for decades.

[CountAllVotes]

3. this whole thing is doing me nor the world no good at all

and yes, I remember all of the things you remember as well.

Age is a cruel weapon against this sort of sh*t isn't it?

Too bad our memories are still soundly in tact I suppose.

Ignorance is bliss eh?

:kick: & recommend.

[tosh]

4. Yes, I'm with you.

I am nearly 52. I have lived on or near the Gulf of Mexico for all of my life. It is a part of me.

I don't know what to think, what to expect, what to do.

I am stunned. I am partially in denial. I cannot tear myself away from the news, the reports, the forecast maps, etc. I feel personally threatened. I am not accustomed to living with fear.

And I am practically speechless.

[Faygo Kid]

29. Thank you and all with us here. At least we are not alone, as we weep.

And I weep for the Gulf of Mexico, and for the billions of birds, fish, reptiles, amphibians and others who are dead.

I weep too for those who will never make a living from the Gulf. They are done.

[ChiciB1]

154. I'm One Who Remembers Everything You Mentioned Above & THIS THING

scares the hell out of me!! I keep saying the same thing over and over! This is a DISASTER and will have repercussions for years and years to come!

Again, I LIVE in Florida and I'm sick to death at what I may soon be seeing right up the street from me!

I'm going to the beach tomorrow and wonder if it will be one of the LAST times I'll see it the same way ever again!

Oh yes, the SKY MAY JUST BE FALLING! Except it's really the GROUND erupting and vomiting all over the place!

When Will We EVER LEARN???

[SusanaMontana41]

257. My heart breaks for you

Watching this unfold is horrible. When will we ever learn?

[snagglepuss]

169. This must be so difficult for you. I can't imagine what it must be like. I'm so sorry.

wishing you peace, strength and comfort.

:grouphug:

[Individualist]

5. I'm 67

As for coping with the catastrophe, I feel like this

[SusanaMontana41]

258. That about sums it up. n/t

[laughingliberal]

6. I can't even begin to absorb it. And I'm 55 with clear memories of all the other events except Cuban

missile crisis.

[KittyWampus]

7. Yes, I can't keep watching it directly. It doesn't help. Now I envision how progress can come about

as a result of all this.

This may be the opportunity to stand down the Oil Barons.

[CTyankee]

80. Oh Kitty, I want that to happen so MUCH myself!

If only Obama could do this, make that clean break and say it's a national emergency and drastic action must be taken.

I wish I knew what was keeping him from saying that and saying we will immediately begin a national effort, akin to what we did in WWII, to work on alternate forms of energy as a national priority.

[JDPriestly]

140. And to finally decide, all of us, to use less oil. Thanks, KittyWampus

[snagglepuss]

170. Yes. yes. yes. nt

[The Old Creak]

8. I'm 62

and live about 20 miles from the Gulf Coast in the Florida Panhandle. My son grew up on the flats where we spent untold days just being father and son. This is slowly squeezing the joy out of my heart. I wonder how much more we can take of the corporate rape of the earth. This situation is devastating, but there is is so much more damage being done around the globe. 62 may be a VERY good age to be:banghead:

[Lorien]

19. My dad is 69 and he keeps saying that he's glad that he isn't younger

and he's very relieved that I never had children! It would have broken his heart to think about a grandchild's future at the rate we're destroying this planet.

[The Old Creak]

42. My son

is about to have his first..........I must admit I have grave concerns mixed with my joy. He and I were discussing, about six weeks ago, how nice it would be for he and I to take his son, my grandson, fishing on the flats. Now we are wondering if that will be possible. THIS REALLY SUCKS!

[ChiciB1]

156. I've Said The Same Thing To My Kids Quite A Few Times Lately, BUT

my kids have kids! I had always been taught that we should try to leave something better for future generations, but I only feel helpless more and more!

I wonder how many people still think we're the GREATEST Nation In The World! Should I apologize that I don't think that way these days!

I sometimes think we should be called the U.S. of APATHY! As a person who has stayed an activist all these years for what I felt to be the good I could leave behind, this has made me feel so very foolish!!

[heidler1]

180. I'm 84 and this leak could be a blessing in disguise.

Take global warming and how scary it is plus taking care of GW appears to me to threaten are whole life style. If it turns out to be obviously true that the only way to secure enough crude oil is to indulge in super risky ways of getting the quantities we seek. I SUBMIT THAT even AS FOOLISH as we are we will back away from our oil craze only when & if we have too.

[abelenkpe]

240. My ex emailed me over the weekend

with similar sentiment. He has two kids as do I and we are very concerned wondering what they will be subjected to as a result. :(

[snagglepuss]

171. Do you think repukes in your neck of the woods will now start listening to

environmentalists? Will they start questionning what we are doing to the planet?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

9. I am in shock.

Every fiber of my being is feeling like it is twisted into knots. I most definitely share your angst, Faygo Kid.

[Faygo Kid]

127. Me too. There is nothing good to say.

You and I feel the same.

[elleng]

10. I feel this is the worst, NO HOPE for relief, continuing to worsen.

Not 'just' a war. (I'm 65.)

[panader0]

11. We put a man on the moon years ago

I am stunned by the gusher, but also stunned that we can't seem to find the technology to fix it.

[snagglepuss]

172. It is reprehensible that oil companies have means to cope with this. It is

staggering that they were not required to.

[rucognizant]

193. That was Camelot!

The era of JFK.
That was murdered long ago!

[freddie mertz]

12. I'm 56, and this looks like the worst environmental story I have ever seen.

It's set me back quite a bit in terms of "hope" and all that.

I end up thinking the planet may be doomed. Seriously, irreversibly doomed.

[gateley]

16. I'm not sure the planet will be doomed, but we may well be. nt

[freddie mertz]

47. LIFE may be doomed.

As we know it.

And all for a few bucks.

[gateley]

57. Yes - as we know it. But if we succed in killing this planet, I'm hopeful

at some point new life will begin again.

[bobbolink]

108. Mother Earth will be OK, as soon as she rids herself of us.

[maryf]

113. That's what I keep thinking...

:(

[bobbolink]

123. If we love our Mother, we will commit mass hari-kari.

[BrklynLiberal]

115. Sadlly, that may be her only hope for survival..

[CrispyQ]

66. "We're consuming our eco-system for the profit of a few."

I heard that in some eco-movie & I thought it summed up the human condition perfectly.

[Chipper Chat]

176. The movie "On The Beach" comes to mind.

I have the same sickly feeling I had while watching that movie.

[shireen]

13. devastated ...

i've been really depressed about it. I love marine and coastal nature. My favorite ecosystems are saltwater marshes. This is really breaking my heart.

But this disaster is going to have a long-term ripple effect through our economy and society as well. Most people don't get it, except the people who live in the affected areas because it's already hurting them. That hurt will spread.

For people who have a deep connection with nature, this feels like dying.

[NCarolinawoman]

56. .

:hug:

[Mojorabbit]

168. Yes, it feels like a part of me is dying

that is it exactly. I find myself teary eyed frequently. Sun was my 54th birthday and I logged on after a lovely evening out and saw a photo of a little heron dying from oil contamination and I had a good cry.

[snagglepuss]

173. The hurt is unbearable.

:cry:

[rucognizant]

194. Tidepool painter here..............

I got a grant last year to do those tide pools. I observed at that time, that they weren't as pristine pure as they had been in the 60's 70's......... God knows what they will look like this time next year, even though I am at the top of the country not near the Gulf of Mexicp. The currents come this way!

[swilton]

14. Two Mutually Exclusive Dimensions of the Disaster

1. The actual damage caused by the disaster - been there done that as you note- Chernobyl and 9-11 seem the most life-changing of the events that you mention and this ranks with those

2. Worse than the damage is the absence of any Government (substantive) reaction to make me feel that they're dealing with the problem vis a vis: (1) stopping the leak; (2) mitigating the damages done to wildlife and the human inhabitants of the Gulf Coast; (3) preventing similar accidents from happening on the offshore rigs along the US coasts.

I have found #2 more troubling than #1. Our Government is AWOL vis a vis decision-making and policy implementation.

[JDPriestly]

141. The government is doing what it can and what it should.

This is a technologically complex issue. It is not a military issue. It is not a weather issue that has happened before and for which there is a game plan.

The only people who know what to do are in the oil industry and our universities. And they are working on this, I assure you. But they do not work well when the cameras are on then.

[Mojorabbit]

174. The military could be building

berms to protect the most sensitive of estuaries. Tons of volunteers could be put to work on projects that might help mitigate the coming damage. Leadership is absent.

[rucognizant]

196. They are...........

doing just that along the Lousiana coast/ barrier islands. Not soon enough to be sure.,it has been a month. People lacking in imagination had to wait to see the Pelican nests drenched in oil before acting. This is a FAILURE OF OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM. It weeds out the imaginative in favor of the techy/statistics/rout memory values!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

204. poor education, yes that's a part too

the nests....

:cry:

[snagglepuss]

175. These are important points to keep in mind. Thanks for posting. nt

[howmad1]

149. I guess that's to be expected........

....when we elect an empty suit as president.

[Lorien]

15. Yes, very much so. I'm a Florda resident, but even if I were still living in the Midwest

I would be extremely upset and depressed by this. Every day that the gusher continues my stomach turns into a tighter knot. I know people down here who are on the verge of a complete nervous breakdown over it. The haughty "it really doesn't matter that much" crowd has no clue as to the scope of the disaster-or it's implications for the entire Nation.

[bunny planet]

17. I am overwhelmed and depressed by this 24/7

Grew up on the Gulf of Mexico - still have family in the area and this is just devastating. Totally, I'm with you, I wake up each morning in disbelief that this is happening and can't think about much else. It's really bad, almost beyond words bad.

[stray cat]

18. We don't have the expertise to deal with this nor do I think anyone overseas does

a good reminder that humans are not really the gods they think they are - although many seem to think the politicians are and that they could stop the disaster if only they wanted to.

[The_Commonist]

20. I was born during the Cuban Missile Crisis...

I remember when RFK was killed, and there were gunshots and rioting in my Queens NY neighborhood that summer. I would sleep with my face up to the wall, and my "good ear" against the pillow. (I was born deaf in my left ear) I told my mother it was so "when they came in to shoot me like they did Bobby Kennedy, I wouldn't see them coming." One of my earliest vivid memories.

I saw the World Trade Center collapse with my own two eyes from my Brooklyn apartment. I watched as yet another President Bush got us into yet another war on Iraq based on bullshit.

However, this BP disaster is different... it's happening in slow motion. I think it is potentially so much worse than many or most of the other items on your list. It is stunning, and for all we know, the "leak" may go on for many more months. We simply have no idea how this is going to end, and what the long-term damage is going to be.

Hopefully, we get something good out of this mess. Hopefully, we start regulating again, like a sane society, and begin weaning ourselves off the oil tit. I hold no hope that we are smart enough as a species and a civilization to actually follow through, but maybe, finally, this will be our wake up call...

[axollot]

88. Or it breaks us apart. There is a huge ripple coming from the Oil Tsunami.

I am part time from the MS/LA area, live in Florida full time. Even my son at 16 went to help during Katrina (he fished there every summer with my parents who lost everything). My brother is/was a fisherman till this happened.

Cheers
Sandy

[pretzel4gore]

21. I worked on supply ships in beauford sea, in mid 70's

we cabled 22 barges to the 'johnny hope' for a trip 1000 miles up mackenzie river to the Dome Petroleum drill ship 'explorer 3' which had 2 tenders circling her all/time. The cost of the bs was obviously staggering. They drilled only few days at a time, and the 'ex 3' sat for weeks doing nada. On the deck was a diving bell contraption-laying there like a dirty sock. The ex 3 engine room was unmanned- and i never saw a filthier operation- they never soogeed or painted, nothing. It was a vast ripoff, and to watch crews hussling outta helicopters- they were on 3 weeks, then off 3 weeks- while we poor working dupes were up from may til october; at less then 4k a month. I recall an american guy- i'd lived in morgan city louisiana a few years before- who said the restrictions made drilling something that kept everuybody awake for days at time, when it allowed. They might get a week, or 10 days, and because of ice on horizon, it often never happened. The ex 3 never drilled at all the year before! yet 300 men sat there twiddling thumbs. And the taxpayer paid for it ALL. Another thing was that divers were able to hook up the 'xmas tree' or whatever they called the seafloor assembly- where the drills shafts went in. That was law- no way could they drill unless divers were right there overseeing the operation.
I felt sorry for them jokers. ripping off society, even for $2k a week, just seemed wrong. I'd rather rob banks, if money that fukkin important.
and yes, this gulf mess really gets me...

[Cleita]

22. Yes, and I'm seventy.

I've been through all of that and WWII and this has me very depressed. It's like there is no hope and no confidence in our leaders to do something. It was that confidence that we had previous to Bush being in office that someone with the right information and intelligence would act swiftly. Even Reagan and the old Bush gave us some confidence that they would use the resources at hand quickly to avert a tragedy when there was an emergency and Clinton handled emergencies very well. But now....it seems politics and whose bottom line is affected trumps all.

[Lorien]

33. I'm 45 but I can clearly remember a time when we felt like the government could take care

of just about anything-and they could! There was considerably more confidence that the brain power and will existed to take on any crisis then. Now the philosophy has changed to "private enterprise is the ONLY way". These naysayers who contend that we "can't" do anything about the gusher haven't even considered that, by law, BP cannot take any action that will not positively effect their bottom line-so that exclude A LOT of solutions.Were all solutions on the table this likely would have been dealt with on week one-the way the U.S. of A used to operate.

[CrispyQ]

68. Too many people fell for Reagan's "Government is the problem" propaganda,

& then proceeded to elect into government, officials who have disdain for government! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: Forty years of this shit is why we're where we're at today.

[snagglepuss]

177. Is it a fact that by law BP can't take any action that will not

positively effect their bottom line? This just beggars belief.

As to your first point. I too believe that even public servants have bought into the notion that government compared to private enterprise is incompetent. And in some respects it may be the case but only because there aren't any effective regulations in place or there isn't any way to insure regulations are followed. It is hard for insiders to have faith in an organization that they know is broken.

I also wonder if the change you describe is because nowadays it seems little is done in organizations without there being team consensus. Perhaps the importance placed on team decision-making has instilled hesitancy to act without extensive consultation. Perhaps nobody wants to be seen stepping on toes even in a disaster.

[NRaleighLiberal]

23. 54 here and a nature lover. This is devastating on so many levels.

[snagglepuss]

178. +1

[boston bean]

24. It's about the only thing I can think about.

And half the country probably doesn't even know.

[Upton]

25. Yes..

This is a tragedy of epic proportions. My anger over this is so far off the charts, I'm having a hard time putting into words exactly how I feel and I find I'm thinking about it almost constantly.

I can't remember the last time I felt so utterly helpless and hopeless..

Many people still aren't taking this seriously enough, but as the days go by and the devastation and long range implications become more and more apparent, they will...they will.

[earth mom]

26. I am devastated. And furious that Obama & Congress are doing jack shit about it.

:cry:

:argh:

[avaistheone1]

217. Bulllshit. Obama and Salazar are doing something about it.

They are okaying additional drilling, that is even deeper and more dangerous.

:nuke:

[MadHound]

27. Stunned, saddened, numbed

Frankly I have, for the most part, stopped dwelling on it. It's not like I don't care, I do. But if I start thinking too much about it I'm just paralyzed, which isn't a good thing.

I recognized early on that the leak isn't going to be stopped for months, probably years, and we can kiss the Gulf goodbye for the rest of my lifetime.

So instead I do what I can in other areas, help out where I can, and go about my life.

[snagglepuss]

179. That is exactly how I feel. nt

[LuvNewcastle]

28. Yes, I'm just about sick over this.

I live on the Gulf Coast and I know this is going to change our whole way of life. Will many of us have to leave in order to seek work? Since we're all tied to the water somehow, how will they ever compensate the people whose lives have been ruined? This is going to make the expenditure after Katrina look like a paltry sum. And, of course, there's the environmental impact. Are they going to just going to section off the area around here like they did Chernobyl? I miss this place already.

[jotsy]

30. Perplexed is the term for me.

The inability to stop the bleeding is the most haunting. As bad as its simple presence is, the continuous spewing making every moment more toxic, doubled at least by the deterrent. The lack of action to safeguard life and habitat against what's arriving and still in coming this much later. Yeah, it takes my breath away and causes my bottom lip to tremble and wells a constant standing tear as I type every time I respond to a thread about it.

I also know that every day we don't do more to put as much back as we can, we further shorten our own shelf life. We can't stop what's already coming but minimizing damage has to be on the scene everywhere, in every way possible, all the time, at the culprits' expense.

May whatever God we hold dear have mercy on the age of prevalence stolen from a people and a planet by soulless men.

[Ruby the Liberal]

31. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the amount of destruction yet to come

Such a bag of mixed emotions, too. Sad, angry, fearful, furious, terrified. I gots 'em all going on and at the same time.

[mrcheerful]

32. Actually in the scope of things the oil mess is bad and rates high but only because

its visible. Remember DDT and the hidden effects on nature? Or how about the mercury contamination that happened around paper mills and were spread to water ways? Or the toxic chemicals that still infect the air land and water put out by industry before the EPA was created? Remember Love Chanel? There lays the real problem, we as a people only react to the harmful things we can see, the hidden crap never enters peoples minds. The way I see the Gulf mess is yeah its bad but it is just another gift from corporations that will last a life time and it is the worst thing to happen this time. Just think if the powers that be decide the best answer for oil spills is nuclear energy? Can you imagine letting business dispose of nuclear waste unregulated?

And there are people who think corporations can police themselves just fine and will go out of their way to stop or change any laws that will hold corporate America accountable, so sooner or later we will be facing another corporate screw up worse then the Gulf, it is only a matter of time until we are facing another corporate mess that threatens all life.

[lonestarnot]

38. Exactly why they are continuing the destruction with dispersants, which no doubt they are heavily

invested.

[mrcheerful]

44. We still haven't fixed the DDT mess, its still there and every now and then they find

sea birds with DDT related birth defects just not as many as there were before the ban of DDT. But many folks out there believe that the effects of DDT are a thing of the past.

[Blue_In_AK]

40. + a million,

especially on the nuclear scenario. I think there should be a moratorium on all large-scale projects that have the potential for major ecological calamity. That includes offshore drilling, nuclear power plants, gigantic open-pit mines in the headwaters of the richest salmon fishery in the world http://www.pebbleminealaska.com/ , I'm sure everyone can think of many. Humans seriously need to scale back their needs. We have done phenomenal things in our history; we could save the planet if we put our collective world-wide brains to the test.

[CrispyQ]

69. And you call yourself mrcheerful?

Good post, though & spot on. Particularly this: Just think if the powers that be decide the best answer for oil spills is nuclear energy? Can you imagine letting business dispose of nuclear waste unregulated?

[snagglepuss]

181. Those are excellent points. How true that other environmental disasters

have happned but weren't so visible. Maybe this will be the shock required to bring people to their senses, to make them aware that the Earth is fragile, that humans are capable of destroying it. Maybe people will start listening to environmentalists.

[Blue_In_AK]

34. I wouldn't necessarily call the EXXON VALDEZ spill "puny"

especially since it's more likely that 30 million gallons of oil were spilled here rather than the media-accepted 11 million, but one thing that we did have going for us up here was that the amount of the spill was finite, whichever figure was correct, unlike what's happening in the Gulf.

The depression itself can be a killer. Several people here committed suicide as a result of the EXXON VALDEZ spill, including the mayor of Cordova, who spoke of the disaster in his suicide note. Riki Ott and Rick Steiner, Alaskan scientists who have vast experience with the Exxon spill and its aftermath, are down in the Gulf area now ttying to educate people about how this is going to go down and how they can most successfully cope with the depression and anger. Don't be naive like Alaskans were and expect that the oil company is going to clean up this mess and deal with you fairly, especially in the aftermath. Get angry, get involved. Learn from our experience.

My thoughts and prayers are with all of you who are directly suffering from this catastrophe. The planet will survive, but if we keep this up, it's going to be a vastly different place than this earth that we now love.

[Faygo Kid]

36. Only in comparison. But you are right, and I was wrong.

I apologize. I still can't cope with this disaster. Thanks so much for your correction.

[Blue_In_AK]

46. Thank you.

:) You didn't need to apologize. I just wish the "almost 11 million barrels" meme could be corrected somehow since several independent scientists have said that figure is a vast underestimation.

[Blue_In_AK]

76. Too late to edit,

but I meant gallons, not barrels.

[snagglepuss]

182. AMEN. Get angry, get involved. Learn from our experience.

Brilliant post.

[dgibby]

35. I'm 64,

and remember all those things as well. I vacillate between profound sadness and white hot anger, then drop into mind numbing depression because I know there's nothing that can be done to stop the horror.

I'm glad I never had children, but I weep for all my nieces and nephews and their children, and all the other children who are going to inherit this mess.

I'm also glad I've already lived more than half my life and won't be around too much longer(relatively speaking). I guess that's selfish, but it's how I feel. Never thought I'd actually embrace old age, but that's how I feel now.

[Individualist]

39. Wholeheartedly concur.

[sarge43]

104. Exactly the way I feel, dgibby.

I can barely stand to think about it.

[mikita]

111. same age, same feelings

I never had children, as it seemed (to me) that the planet was too full even back then.

Now I don't even have a dog anymore, as I don't want to expose any more beings to this cluster-fuck.

[likesmountains 52]

116. You said it for me...

[ChiciB1]

158. Yes, It Does Sound Selfish... But I've Said More Than Once Of Late!

But even living 20 more years will have an impact on my life as I know it now! I'm a roller coaster of emotions that keep me awake at night! I'm sure so many of us could list about 30 emotions right off the top of our heads this very moment!

[OneBlueSky]

198. I turned 64 last Friday, and I also remember all of the other disasters . . .

assassinations, and such that we've lived through in the past half centurey . . . and on the scale of horror, this one beats them all -- even the 9/11 attacks . . . I too vacillate between profound sadness and white hot anger, and generally settle down into a state of depression and pessimism about the future of life on this planet . . . the planet herself will survive just fine, but all the species that Creation has seen evolve over the millennia are now in danger of disappearing, all because of human greed and ignorance . . .

"They paved Paradise, and put up a parking lot" only scratches the surface of humankind's destructive history . . . and yet we still drill, we still go to war, we still look the other way to human suffering, we still watch species disappear, we still allow corporations to control everything from food to air to water for their own profit . . .

Paradise has become worse than a parking lot -- we've made it a fucking dump . . .

[BlancheSplanchnik]

205. yet we still breed ourselves to death too.

the mindless breeding.....
the earth and all the creatures could live with us if only we weren't such a plague.



I better get off this thread, I'm sorry I checked back in---I'm nauseous and crying again. Shrimpy's on my lap. She hates it when I cry.

[lunatica]

37. I'm past stunned but still can't wrap my mind around it except

to picture death and loathsome oil that looks just like shit all around the Gulf. I try not to think of the dying wildlife. Even if it doesn't kill fish off directly it's already in the food chain.

[nenagh]

41. I am 65 and the only way I could begin to handle the blowout..

was to go to a blog "The Oil Drum"... and read it's technical information night after night..

And who did I find there? Professional engineers, geologists etc. and many were commenting during the night..So I thought, they can't sleep either..

I learned a lot about how wells are drilled, and it makes me understand why this has taken the time it has..

And reassured me that there are many capable professionals in the business...

It makes me wonder if the poor decisions were made at the top of the BP management..

I have begun to think nearly constantly about the Gulf in the hopes that even my best wishes and good vibrations and even prayer can be of any little help...

Let us hope together that this next step will stop the flow of oil.

[jwirr]

43. 68 and I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. The consequences

of this are going to be coming at us any day now. The oil has already come ashore and the local residents are totally aware of the situation. Those of us who are keeping up on the net are still somewhat removed from the side effects.

When something like this happens I always remember Vine DeLorian's quote (paraphrased), "God created a world that was good in His image. Then we humans proceeded to remake it in our own image." He was so correct. I wonder where he is now.

[Lifelong Protester]

73. Are you talking about Vine DeLoria? The native american author?

I took a class from him once. I have not kept up with where he is either, but those are good words you quoted.

[jwirr]

92. Yes, that is who I was thinking of. Thanks. Getting old I guess.

[time_has_come]

45. Yes. It's overwhelmingly depressing for me.

I'm digesting all the news...too much of it...and getting really frustrated. I'm sniping at DUers who are themselves outraged but running with misinformation. I feel like i'm in a nightmare. Stunned, yes. And I'm half a continent away. I can't imagine how people living on the Gulf must feel. Do you live near it?

[Citizen Worker]

48. And there's Bhopal, India and Ecuador

Peoplr are still dying in Bhopal, India after 26 years and no one has been brought to the bar to answer for this crime against humanity. And there's Ecuador where Texaco/Chevron literally dumped oil into river systems contaminating drinking water sources. It has been through the courageous actions by a handful of lawyers that may someday compensate the people of Ecuador. However, it is not at all clear who will be responsible for the cleanup.

For an excellent overview of what another of the oil giants has done to the environment watch the documentary film Crude.

Can anyone suggest a documentary film about Bhopal?

[mod mom]

49. me too. It's still ongoing with no immediate solution in sight. I wake up at night

worrying about my children's generation. It's doesn't help to be reading Russ Baker's "Family of Secrets" at the same time.Has me wondering if Obama even has the ability to be calling the shots.

[mikehiggins]

50. Stunned and horrified

It now looks like my sisters were smarter than I thought getting out of the Gulf Coast area of Florida. I can easily foresee oil from this hole ending up destroying Florida's tourist industry and when that goes, what's left? Let us hope only the people with a brain come north. We have enough zombies with the Tea Baggers, etc.

Seriously, though, this is a big _______ deal that will have unheard of consequences for all of us, and none of them are likely to be good.

I feel sorriest for my grandchildren. They are going to grow up in this world we are now facing.

[Captain Hilts]

51. I'm really pissed over it. nt

[PCIntern]

52. Age-wise, I'm right behind you and yes,

this is right up there with all those nightmares which you mentioned.

When I posted soon after the story broke that I felt this way, I was accused here of being a "Chicken Little" and worse...it's funny, as they often say, "denial" is not simply a river in egypt.

[NCarolinawoman]

53. I keep having dreams.

The most common one is that I am on a beautiful beach with sparkling white sand, blue sky, and blue water. It looks like one of the barrier islands near the Cape Lookout National Seashore in NC.

As I walk along the beach I am feeling frantic. I am holding a jar of water. The water in the jar is clear, and there is white sand on the bottom. I keep approaching these faceless people (their faces are all blurred out). I say something to them about figuring out what to do, and the faceless people don't answer me.
:(



On the front page of yesterday's paper there was an article entitled, OIL MAY HARM SEA LIFE IN NORTH CAROLINA, with some very horrible details. Everything seems to be tied to the Gulf Stream.

So many people have a feeling of helplessness and impending doom. It's like watching a slow motion tornado approaching. :cry:

[EFerrari]

54. Me.

[BanzaiBonnie]

55. This is what happened when I woke at 4:15 this morning

I was awakened at about 4:15 this morning with words that needed to be written. These are not my words. These words do not come to me alone, but there are others receiving the same or a similar message. They are the words of the planet.




The energy systems that were put in place to run this planetary body have been disrupted to a degree that drastic measures are now being moved into play. This is going to be a bumpy ride. This is a correction that is necessary to stabilize the system.


Disruptions have gone too far. A system dump may be necessary. This planet is a living breathing organism that has been abused. It is she who has kept you alive. It is she who was built for your comfort. The system dump is necessary to save what is left.

The system was similar to the autonomic nervous system that is echoed in the human life form. It runs on its own without much conscious thought, but you have awakened the mother and she must now attempt to save herself. Great changes are in store to reposition order. Restraint will be authorized but cannot be guaranteed.

Anything that disrupts the life force of the planet to the degree that humans have, must be challenged. There must be a correction. This was not the plan but there has been too much interference in the self-regulating system.

Stop the loss of the pressure fluids from bleeding off into the ocean. Stop it NOW before the planet must shift and shake to return to equilibrium. You have no idea what you’ve done. It is through your own hubris of ownership of the planet that has brought you to this place. This is a living breathing organism. Not an animal, but something else. Her cycles are in-breathing and out-breathing. And when corrections must be made the skies and the oceans will empty.

There will always be life, but it will be different. Can you not hear the mourning song. She weeps for what must be done. But be done, it must. It may already be too late. It is not fully known. You have been warned before but did not listen. Please elevate your better natures now. Work together to solve these painful wounds on the earth mother.

We do not live in a state where one thing does not affect the other. The whole is one thing. My pain is yours. I am sorry. This planet is dense. It has great gravity. It pulls relentlessly on you. Your position is to escape the gravity and stand as a bridge between earth and sky as the great and beautiful beings you are meant to be.

But the gravity here causes you to forget. You think you are small. You forget how large you really are. The gravity pulls on you to a small stature. You were giants here. That was how it was meant to be. The experience has changed and now you are smaller. Find your own equilibrium to stand tall once more and save one another.

Sent through She Who Walks

[madrchsod]

58. i`m stunned at the federal response

one would think the government would have learned from katrina but they have`t.
of course this is the same government who thinks they can win in afghanistan and change the world by talking nice and carrying a big stick.

this is`t what i voted for....

[willing dwarf]

212. The sense of powerlessness and passivity, absence of leadership

is all too familiar. It's like Katrina all over again.

Does a tangle of bureaucracy keep decisive action from happening, or is it lack of knowledge, lack of ability to fix this thing?

Have humans dived down below their depth.

In approach and response this whole man made disaster is like a non-nuclear version of a nuclear melt-down.

Very very disturbing, depressing -- hard to even get the right words. Feels like another major signpost on the journey to the end of human presence on earth.

[Golden Raisin]

59. I'm of a vintage just a tad

older than you and exactly because I also remember all the historical events you listed above, I'm waiting to find out the extent of the lying, dissembling and misinformation that hasn't yet, but will eventually be admitted/discovered. Of course it will be too late for the Gulf. From a purely practical standpoint let's hope there isn't a major hurricane in the Gulf which will wreak even more havoc with this already horrendous situation.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

60. Silent Spring

Rachel Carson didn't imagine it happening this way, but the image of what a truly Silent Spring might be like intrudes on me now. I push it away pretty well. I feel like vomiting. I try to avoid looking at pictures of the disaster. I focus on doing the best I can where I am. I realize I have no power to really affect the situation, though I do as many of the "right" things as I can (recycle. refrained from breeding. Buy organic or recycled as much as available--I consider the higher price a donation to charity. Drove on used veg. oil for two years till I had to have it removed--mechanic who installed it destroyed my car too...but I digress)

I love animals, wildlife, nature and this calamity is too much to take in. I find my mind continually putting up blocks.

I hope and pray for this incalculable evil to inspire even greater good.

[snagglepuss]

183. "I hope and pray for this incalculable evil to inspire even greater good."

I hoping and praying the same thing.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

206. .

:hug:








I shouldn't have logged on and checked this thread. I feel nauseous and I'm crying all over again.

[Arugula Latte]

61. I wake up in the middle of the night every night and start obsessing about it.

It's hard to go back to sleep. I wake up feeling sickened and try to remember why I am upset. Then after a few seconds I think: "environmental destruction" and it hits me like a ton of bricks.

[cilla4progress]

62. Yes.

Simply yes. It's definitely like some sort of nuclear bomb went off on the southeast coast of America.

[Cybergata]

63. I am around you age, and . . .

I've been in shock! Honestly, I always had faith and hope that things could get better. Now I'm sure that the human race is doomed. I've been teaching for 35 years, and now I wonder if there is any reason to continue. I tried to teach children to question the powers that be, standing up for your rights, etc, but I feel hopeless in the wake of this disaster. My heart breaks when I think of the wildlife and ocean life that will suffer because of this spill.

[flamingdem]

64. This one is agonizing because there is literally no end in sight

and this Top Kill idea sounds so shakey.

[NC_Nurse]

65. Yes, it's horrible. Terribly sad and easy to sink in to despair over. The fact

that it's continuing without any sign of stopping the flow is just heartbreaking and appalling. How can people be so stupid as to tempt fate this way and put other creatures and people's lives in jeopardy. :-(

[femrap]

67. I, too, am

nearing 60. But from a young age, I could see that man was killing Mother Nature. This huge volcano of oil that will destroy the Gulf and maybe more was only a matter of time, to me.

Now hurricane season is upon us.

The amount of +7.0 earthquakes have been increasing of late. I fear for S. CA.

I wouldn't live on the coast of any major body of water. I believe we will see major land mass shifts.

All one can do is treat Mother Earth with great respect and encourage others to do so as well. Prepare as best as one can.

Corporations are causing all of this pain. And governments are allowing it.

[Vinca]

70. This particular disaster is bothering me more than others have.

For one thing, it was preventable and the root cause of it was greed. Secondly, the thought this could get in the gulf stream and ruin the entire east coast is mind boggling. Most of all, I cry for the wildlife. The most beautiful things on the planet exterminated by morons who want to do nothing more than exploit the planet.

[snagglepuss]

184. [phone]

[rucky]

71. Just look at the number of threads on DU about this.

It's bothering everybody, in a way that rivals Katrina.

[QC]

72. I live just three miles from the gulf.

Walk down to the end of my street and you come to a bay. Look across it and you can see the shipping channel that opens into the Gulf. The oil isn't here, and we might get lucky and escape it, but if it comes it will be right here in my neighborhood.

So yes, I am also having a hard time with this. It makes me furious to see how little sense of urgency there is on the part of TPTB. Worse still is seeing people here act as though the worst thing about this catastrophe is that it might hurt the president's approval rating. That's a special kind of ugly.

[Faygo Kid]

74. I can't possibly imagine what you are going thrugh.

As a Great Lakes guy, I know water. But this is horrendous.

[icee]

77. 64. I am furious what has happened and also knowing that the

US has no stewards of our property. I've been to the Gulf a few times over the last 40 years, but not recently. I'm glad I saw it and the keys before they turn grayish-black for 30-40 years. Do not eat any fish from the Gulf now. That crap BP is using to break up the spill will make you sick as a dog.

[lunasun]

155. Do not forget Lake Michigan and BP !

Indiana tried to sell out Lake Michigan with BP which a lot of folks in Illinois did not want and some DUers are not going to wanna hear this but one of our pit bulls was Rahm


from http://chriscrosby.net/blog/2007/09/03/bp-lake-michigan-and-congress/
In 2007.....

For those of you not local to Chicago or the Lake Michigan area, there was a recent upheaval around Indiana’s state regulators granting BP a permit allowing it to dump 50 percent more ammonia and 35 percent more suspended solids into Lake Michigan. Ammonia feeds oxygen-sucking algae blooms that kill fish, and the suspended solids in treated wastewater include mercury, lead, nickel and vanadium.

Personally, I was absolutely mesmerized that such a valuable and massive natural resource for literally millions of people could be so significantly impacted by such careless, and most likely oil-money tainted, politicians (not to mention by a state that only borders a very small percentage of the overall Lake shoreline).

When this was announced, legislators from Michigan, Wisconsin and Illinois immediately engaged the state of Indiana, the EPA and BP directly. Most notably were Senator Dick Durbin from Illinois and Representative Rahm Emanuel from IL-05.

I commend Rahm Emanuel and Dick Durbin for their letter to BP’s CEO, their appeal to the EPA and the Emanuel-Ehlers Resolution. They also launched www.ProtectOurLake.com and radio ads targeted at BP. These gentlemen helped stop what could have been a true natural catastrophe.
BP has agreed to not increase their waste output into Lake Michigan.

[snagglepuss]

185. I didn't know. Thanks for posting. Any good news helps. nt

[ChiciB1]

160. That Last Sentence About "Approval Ratings" Is About As Sick As It Gets!!

You said it correctly... A SPECIAL KIND OF UGLY!!

I'm to the south of Tampa Bay, and I don't know how bad it will be, but I don't DOUBT we WILL SEE with our eyes and smell with our noses this VOMIT from the depths of the GULF!!

How can anyone still think about OFFSHORE DRILLING??? But THEY ARE!!!

[voteearlyvoteoften]

75. oh yes

since day one

[tbyg52]

78. I'm 59 and I'm sick to my stomach. nt

[axollot]

79. Almost 40 and been in tears on and off for a few weeks. (since the start, knew it was bad)

My brother fished there and my parents have property on the coast that was destroyed by Katrina. They have a home a little farther inland now.

It's really broken my heart.

Good luck to you.

Cheers
sandy

[Scout]

81. yes, many emotions. anger, astonishment, depression, hopelessness...

maybe the world is going to end in 2012 ... how long will "we" last if the ocean begins to die on a large scale???

[southernyankeebelle]

82. Am 62 and am having trouble with this. Where is Palin< McCain, Fox News for supporting Drill Baby

Drill? I would be reminding especially Palin at every stop she goes with big signes of protests.

[Swamp Rat]

83. I survived a dozen hurricanes, floods and tornados, had family sent to every fucking war,

and I have never been more angry at my government than I am right now.

[revolution breeze]

84. Every minute

Every day! Wondering what is going to happen next and how many more people I know are going to be affected.

[jillan]

85. Yes!! I agree this is right up there.

[Mojeoux]

90. Nuking the Hole!? and I am Stunned by the People and Kids Who Still Don't Know.

I feel like they think I'm describing a movie.

It may be a tad upsetting, but kids in schools should know. My little neighbor, who's a bright little 9 year old, didn't know about the Gulf. I would imagine that in high schools and college, science classes, geology classes and environmental studies classes that are talking about the disaster every day.

I can only hope that this is the "Deal Breaker" of all time. People are mentioning Bhopal and the mess Exxon has made in South America. Now that we are getting a ring side seat at the biggest oil disaster in the world, the American public can maybe come to full attention. This is a powerful position for public opinion, however a confused public can't form an opinion.

Also:
How bad were the Russian Oil undersea eruptions? We don't know much. All I've read is that they suggest small ATOMIC explosions.

So how long till BP says they have to NUKE the hole?

[snagglepuss]

186. This is so similar to watching 911 unfold. I've read that nuking it has been

discussed. I pray that this catastrophe makes the densest people wake up to other environmental disasters that are looming if nothing is done. I hope all hell brakes loose if deep sea drilling resumes without serious changes in place.

[KonaKane]

86. The scope of it is bad enough. But what really gets me is....

how so many people here at DEMOCRATIC underground dot com are using it as a base to attack Obama on a nearly daily basis. Look, the guy is doing the best he can. Nobody is going to make me believe he doesn't care about this, or is trying to harm this nation with his response. Why there is so much vitriol against him on a democratic site is beyond my comprehension.

I see that circular firing squads and foot shooting are still in with my group, unfortunately. I hope we don't approach November like this, because if we screw that one up we could well put the wrong people back in power and Gods know what they would do with another disaster like this.

[ShamelessHussy]

162. this is waaaaay bigger than the man in office - the cult of personality has got to STOP!

this isn't a got damned sporting match, this isn't about attacking him personally, or dems vs reTHUGs, this is about his leadership, specifically the lack of an adequate RESPONSE to this epic disaster.

he needs to mobilize everyone he can to help with the clean up and containment of this ongoing gusher, and that includes massive foreign assistance, and every other big oil conglomerate, from shell to exon as they have a stake in this, too. NO MORE PUMPING OIL in the Gulf until this disaster is effectively dealt with, PERIOD.

In fact that would be my first executive ORDER.

Then i would expect to see the Gulf FULL of huge skimmer vessels pumping up the oil that is everywhere, but especially where it is threatening our shores.

:argh:

[snagglepuss]

187. BANG ON. EFFING BANG ON.

This should be a separate thread. I can't believe people are worried what may happen to Obama. It staggers the mind that they think they are doing him any favors whining about DUers being gravely disappointed in his lack of leadership and his agreeing to allow drilling to resume.


:banghead:

[KonaKane]

246. And you don't think he's thought of that stuff yet?

Give him credit for having a brain. We did elect the smartest motherfucker in the room, whether you agree with him or not on all the details.

Show some humility.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

87. I'm also nearly 60 and I also feel exactly the same way as you.

I knew that this was going to be the worst environmental catastrophe EVER as it unfolded on Earth Day ....I weep for the planet, I weep for the animals and the people espexially our children. BP are CRIMINALS.....but we are also responsible;e for being such massive consumers

[XanaDUer]

89. Me.

I cannot stop thinking about this. I am actually depressed over this, to the point where I'm not going out and doing things locally with friends. I am dreaming about this.

I have absolutely no faith in BP in fixing this mess they created.

[janx]

91. My brother, who used to certify diving instructors, certified me

decades ago. I didn't dive much, but the diving I did during that time was probably the most spiritual experience I've ever had. One particular wreck dive is something that was so beautiful that I hesitate to describe it; it is sacred.

Prior to that, I'd been snorkeling in a number of beautiful environments--one of which was on the west side of Grand Cayman before it was developed and trashed. I could swim, snorkel, and dive pretty well in those days. The discoveries I made diving with a mask, snorkel, and fins were amazing. I was 11 years old. Once I was drifting around on the surface as the tide went out over an enormous bed of sea urchins. My 11-year-old belly was getting closer and closer to those barb-spined Caribbean sea urchins. I tried not to breathe very deeply...:rofl:

But the things I saw when I was 11, and the epiphany that I had in my twenties made me very attached to what happens in the ocean.

The fishing industry is also something that I worry about. My son has worked fishing off the coasts of Alaska, and I am aware of the industry in the Gulf.

I have written about wildlife and the food chain--the stories are metaphorical--this is because conservation and environmentalism was ingrained in me by my parents. I am 52 years old.

This is paralyzing. I cannot get away from it.

[amandabeech]

93. I'm nearly 55 and I am finding it upsetting.

I remember the stuff that you do Faygo--I was a little ahead in paying attention to the world.

I'm having the feeling that the world in general is justy careening around and no one with any principles is in charge. The Bush wars are still going on, the situation in Europe is scary and the stock market flew down 1,000 points in five minutes and no one seems to know why that happened, too. Now this.

Was it John Taylor who wrote about complex systems collapsing way back in the '80s or early '90s.

I haven't read the book because I thought that I would get too depressed, but now I may read the book for some idea on how to survive the collapse of a bunch of complex systems. With no one seemingly in charge.

[snagglepuss]

double post - self delete

[snagglepuss]

189. Odd that so many people on this thread are the same age. That said , I on one hand agree that the

"world in general is just careening around and no one with any principles is in charge". However could it be that other eras were no better except that in times past TPTB could control the message to a much greated extent than they can now? That people back then believed authorities, they weren't as cynical as we are now. Catch-22 puts the lie to the belief that the WWII generation, for isnstance, were more competent and there are many examples in WW I that reveal the utter incompetence of the men at the top.

I think we are now in the period when the proverbial chickens are coming home to roost. We are living through the results of too little control over corporations that have been driven by greed, spending untold trillions on wars and tax cuts for the wealthy. What brought this home for me is that the US of all countries doesn't have the submarine other countries have that is required in this situation. If you want to read a book that pulls no punches but actually has an uplifting conclusion, then read Christopher Hedges' Empire of Illusion.

[amandabeech]

252. People at various times have been incredibly cynical about the government.

However, people were less cynical from FDR through much of Lyndon Johnson's term. Even then, people would believe him about the domestic situation, but Viet Nam became a huge boil of lies.

As to corporations running everything, well the second half of the 19th century was absolutely disgusting. In modern times, the problems started with Ronny Raygun, but most of us now disgusted weren't too surprised about that. Neither were we too surprised about the Bushes.

At least some people had hopes for Clinton and Obama. Banking and derivative deregulation came under Clinton, who hired Bob Rubin as one of his treasury secretaries and actually seemed to listen to Rubin uncritically.

Obama's tenure started just after the worse of the problems caused, in part, by Clinton deregulations nearly took the country, and maybe at least part of the world, down. Now we have a less than ideal financial regulation program that took a lot of time to work out while Obama indulged himself with his favorite issue, health care.

I know that there will be corporatist activity under all Republicans to some extent, but what has made me lose hope is the apparent inability of the Democratic Party to come up with FDRs when it needs to. Instead, we get CYA triangulators in the Blair vein.

Really, I haven't felt this powerless in quite some time.

[Highway61]

94. I am so with you on this

My twin grandchildren are going to be born any time now...and they will never know how beautiful the Gulf was. I loved that area...In my lifetime...it is gone. So very sad. We are so done. :(

On edit: I am numb...just numb

[Faygo Kid]

97. Thank you so much for saying that. Best wishes for your twin grandchildren.

I wish I could respond to all here, but I will respond to you with my very best wishes.

[Highway61]

213. Thank you

n/t

[yellerpup]

95. The worst in my memory.

I'm horrified. Only huge geological events compare to this in scale but nothing compares to the permanent destruction of an ecosystem. I'm not sure we can recover.

Edited to freak out

[Mira]

96. FOR the FIRST TIME ---

I'm up against a disaster I am unable to talk about.
I simply can't. I cry at the thought, and I know one thing only:
When the goddamn leak is good and plugged, you will hear me roar. Then I can maybe afford to emote, look for blame, scream for justice for the damage to the planet and the people.

[benld74]

98. 53 going on 54 and this sickens me everytime I hear of it,,

hardly anything on the news EXCEPT for their sound bites

[intheflow]

99. This is going to sound mad, but I swear my body knew about the explosion when it happened.

I live in Denver, I didn't see or even hear about the "spill" until April 29, nine days after it happened. But I'm a pretty cheerful gal usually. However, on April 20, for no apparent reason, I became so depressed I considered suicide. I can't explain why it happened. My life is stressful but I've never had suicidal thoughts before. I honestly believe my body somehow intutively "knew" something bad had happened to the planet and it triggered that depth of despair. People keep talking about cleaning up the Gulf and the wetlands, but I know humans cannot clean nature, it's impossible to clean an environmental disaster of this scale. The Gulf is dead, it was dead the second that pipe exploded.

I do want to clarify that I'm not suicidal any more, if anyone was worrying about that. Now I'm pissed.:mad:

[Faygo Kid]

100. Good heavens! Stay pissed, not suicidal.

Stay with me. I was suicidal in April, with my first DUI at almost 59. I have hell to pay, for sure, but NEVER be suicidal, and keep in touch.

[intheflow]

138. Nah, like I said, it was a weird anomaly.

I'm sure it was my organic body feeling the rape of the environment. I never felt that way before or since, it was just a really, really freaky thing.

Of course, the second I heard about the oil I knew it was over for the Gulf. I knew it was bad way before anyone gave worst case scenarios. I immediately knew there'd be the possibility of whole species wiped out, both aquatic and avian, which I'm pretty sure is going to happen. Say goodbye to blue fin tuna, sperm whales, manatees, possibly the brown pelican, the state bird of Louisiana. A few will remain in captivity, but these animals are all indigenous to the Gulf waters. I'm sure there are others I'm not aware of that are threatened, certainly rare plant life, too.

Now I'm pissed, if also pessimistic as hell. BP deliberately waited to let the public know, it was probably 3 or 4 days before they even allowed the news to get out, then they called it a spill. As if they didn't fucking know they'd unleashed a gusher! :grr:

[pitohui]

163. oh FFS april 20 is a well known "bad" date (hitler's birthday)

lots of people have post-traumatic stress because of the linkage between hitler's birthday, waco, and oklahoma city bombings -- not to say you couldn't have somehow magically known but this is one of the worst dates on the calendar to begin with, there's no use saying "you know" the gulf is dead, you know, some of us have to live here and negativity isn't necessarily helpful -- sorry to be so cranky but c'mon, telling me "you know" it's the end of the world is not news i can use

i was upset because when it blew, they reported that the 11 men were seen getting onto a raft and "somehow" they couldn't figure out where the raft had gone

those 11 men were killed instantly but we had our emotions jerked around from the get-go

as far as people can't do this or people can't do that, there's no way to go but forward -- we have to assume that sooner or later smart people will figure out how to fix this

assuming it's the end of the world is not helpful or useful

everything after katrina is sort of after the end of the world anyway...really...

[amborin]

101. i think everyone's with you; it's horrific

[Chulanowa]

102. I practically grew up on Dauphin Island

The scope of this is big enough that I really can't handle it. Frankly I've been walling it away, simply becuase otherwise I might not be able to do anything more than scream and beat up the walls.

[janx]

107. I've seen other posts of yours that have been very useful,

particularly about environmental law when it comes to oil.

Thank you! :hi:

[Chulanowa]

109. Spent eight years in Cordova, AK

Heard a constant stream of stories about the Exxon-Valdez spill, the litigation and laws, the effects the cleanup had... I seriously can't recommend Riki Ott's "Sound Truth and Corporate Lies" strongly enough to anyone who wants to know how this shit goes. I had to quit reading the thing about two-thirds through, it was making me too angry.

[janx]

110. You are a great source of logic, law, and history.

I looked into Riki Ott as a result. Thanks so much! I have a son who lives in Alaska and who has lived in the Valdez area.

[Chulanowa]

112. Oh, jeeze, there goes my ego

Now I have to take out a mortgage for a bigger house! Thanks a lot!

:wave:

[janx]

117. Not really...

:rofl:

But thank you.

[intheflow]

139. I'm so sorry.

I spent time on the Mississippi Coast, it kills me to think of about the birds and the estuaries, the dolphins and snapper and turtles. What a rich and diverse ecosystem is being lost. My sympathies to you and your home. :hug:

[inna]

103. I'm in my 30s, and this makes me want to SCREAM.

[marions ghost]

105. There's no hiding from this one....

Comparing the latest catastrophe to those other past shocks appropriate. The whole Reign of the Bushites was one prolonged nightmare. We knew we would reap the implications, and so we are. This Blowout in the Gulf will have enormous impact and we don't even know the size and shape of that yet. In addition to dealing with the crisis directly, if we don't make sure that this is the beginning of new energy solutions and The End of Drill Baby Drill, we really are too far gone.

People live so much longer these days that you wonder how many of these major shocks humans can tolerate in a lifetime. There's a pervasive feeling of loss, even impending doom. You develop some coping strategies, but you also develop a numbness that can become like a state of permanent passivity that's not far from shell shock. I guess if we're still trying to DO something, we must have some survival instincts somewhere. But fighting uphill all the time takes a toll. It takes a support group.

I'm one of those who don't do denial well. I have to keep the vigil, stay with the injured or victimized until help arrives, in this case The Gulf. I have to see the pictures, see the faces of those who did this latest crime against humanity, hear what people say about it, pray, process, connect with others who are feeling the effects, grieve and mourn. I have to go through it, not around it.

And there's the anger to deal with. Passing the one-month mark did it for me. Lots of anger now. I suspect we are looking at the relief well as the only real solution. I hope that is wrong, pray that is wrong. What's happening to Americans in this situation is abuse. It is yet more betrayal by corporate criminals and their government enablers. Like others here I'm not sleeping, not concentrating, not working efficiently, but I have been in this state so many times that it feels familiar. Trying to recognize the need for more rest and time out, and still function. The crisis in the Gulf reflects the rottenness at the heart of our society--the exploitation and waste of people and resources, the greed, corruption, insults and betrayals--the abuse of power. Have we had enough?

Let's stick together here at DU and try to make sense of it as it goes on. And we need to --continually--try to support and help the Gulf Coasters. They need to know that our grieving is no less because we are not as close. The idea that Northerners or Inlanders or Desert Dwellers can't feel what's going on the Gulf is ridiculous. We all came from the sea, we all love the sea and the coast, we all know the importance of the oceans. We feel the suffering of fellow creatures, human and animal. We all understand that this is a man-made crime of horrendous proportion. It is a crime against everything we care about.

Thanks for posting Faygo.

[snagglepuss]

190. Thanks for taking the time to write this post, thank you for keeping the vigil.

I was thinking along those lines when I read an excellent Conason column yesterday about the spill, I wondered how he found the strength to witness what was happening and write such an insightful piece. I'm in Toronto and feel devastated by this destruction and I feel the sense of helplessness. My heart and soul goes out to those immediately affected, they are by no means alone in their grief and sense of loss.

[marions ghost]

261. thanks snagglepuss

I appreciate your words too.

:hug: Here's an article I read in your paper when I googled BP Canada:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/813029--scharper-precautionary-tale-in-gulf-of-mexico

Don't let them go any further drilling up there on the arctic sea.:-(

[tango-tee]

200. Great post, thank you!

You've put into words what has been buzzing around in fragments in my mind much more eloquently than I ever could have.

[marions ghost]

262. thanks tango-tee

:hug: Glad you could get something out of that post. It's important just to witness this, even if that's the only thing we can do for now. I'm not kidding when I say facing this takes a support group. Many people won't allow themselves to feel anything about a thing like this. They repress. Sometimes they're numb or overwhelmed. Sometimes they just ignore. OK. I'm not judgmental. But it can make you feel more a little crazy when people see things so differently.

I'm reminded of when, on 9-11, my dad happened to be visiting us. So we were together that day, stumbling around trying to make sense of that earth-shattering, mind-blowing event. My dad has a cousin, (who is totally in his right mind). My dad talked to the cousin on the phone on 9-12, and opened the conversation with, "Really awful isn't it?" And the cousin said, "Sunny here." :freak:!?!

Re. The Gulf, when I said I have to "go through it, not around it"--I wasn't really saying that's the best way for everybody. It's just my way. Sometimes denial is useful. But I was hoping I was speaking to & for those who just can't avoid having strong feelings of empathy and concern about what's happening there now, and therefore are experiencing stress and depletion.

It definitely DOES help to know that others are feeling the same way. Stick together.

[tango-tee]

264. The way I see it...

...9/11 *happened*. I was off work that day, watching CNN over here in Germany at about 3 p.m., when there was a news flash of a plane flying into one of the towers. And then the second one. It happened out of a clear blue sky. It kicked us in the back of the knees, bashed us across the head within minutes. But once those airplanes had flown into the buildings... that was it. The structures crumbled, people died horrible deaths, people were hurt. Still, once it had happened, that was it - it was done.

The disaster we are witnessing now is of a different nature and on a different scale. It is unfolding in front of our eyes like an ongoing nightmare and *we*, as horrified bystanders, are incapable of estimating just how devastating and far-reaching this catastrophe will be. There is nothing finite about it - it keeps going on, as we watch helplessly in our anguish and anger. Each day that goes by with the oil gushing forth unabatedly means ever more death and destruction. And we have no idea when or how it will end.

Please forgive me if I'm rambling or if I haven't been able to express my opinion clearly, but English is only my second language and there are times grammar and vocabulary suffer. My heart aches for every living being in the region, and for the suffering they are enduring. Where will it end?

[defendandprotect]

106. It sure is . . . and by the same right wing people . . .

Whose been behind all of that except oil industry/elites/capitalists?

And the CIA/FBI, military which does their bidding?

The insanity is immense and suicidal --

That's what you have to remember about the control freaks -- patriarch/organized

patriarchal religions/capitalism -- the unholy trinity . . . they are violent to

a point of being suicidal.

[BrklynLiberal]

114. I agree. I think that as we age, we think we have seen so much..and nothing can be worse than....

whatever, whatever....And then something happens that sets us back on our heels and we have to reassess what we mean by worst....and it keeps coming, and keeps getting worse...It is depressing, to say the least.

[tblue37]

118. I will be 60 in August. I am sto stressed by this disaster that I can't even read about it.

I feel myself getting sick whenever I try to read about it. This disaster, coupled with the collapse of the bee colonies, has me so convinced that we are doomed that I now feel guilty about having had children.

My talented, accomplished son and daugher are now 30 and 29. Both are very successful, and I love them desperately. But before having kids I struggled with my fear that civilization is like a rabbit shot on the run--it keeps going for a while in the same direction before it keels over, but it is already dead. (That metaphor comes from a novel by John Barth, in case you are inerested.)

I almost didn't have kids because of this fear, but I finally convinced myself that if I didn't have kids I would not have a significant investment in the future, and I wouldn't have a reason to work hard to prevent the future I feared.

But it was just a rationalization. I really, really wanted kids, and so I gave myself an excuse to have them. But now I feel guilty. I might die before the very worst happens, but they--and their kids if they have them--will certtainly have to suffer through it.

Even writing this respone is hard for me. I have to go do somthing to distract myself.

[Faygo Kid]

126. Me too, friend. Daughter - 33 - visiting Memorial Day week.

Thank you so much for your post. I just got my first ever DUI in April, and I know my life is ruined (nobody hurt). My daughter will visit me for the first time in five years, and at least I will have that. Please don't feel guilty for anything to do with your kids.

[liquid diamond]

150. I'm sorry to hear about your DUI, but why is your life ruined?

[madmax]

119. +1

[cliffordu]

120. I cannot watch the television or read deep reports about it.

I think this is the opening salvo in the ruination of this planet by the greediest motherfuckers ever bred.

I think we are truly fucked.

[Helga Scow Stern]

121. Yes, beyond belief. n/t

[sce56]

122. I'm pretty dammed pissed as I hoped to sail the waters of the caribean when I retire

Now I don't know if there will be any corals left to look at!
Yes I remember where I was the day they, More than one shooter, took out JFK



I love to dive and watch the fish they are in such a beautiful world of there own down there.





Below is with out oil pollution just global warming or man made pollution.



I'm afraid I will not be able to view the those awesome sights again!

[CLANG]

124. It feels somewhere between someone molesting your daughter and someone killing your mother

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[RandomThoughts]

125. I am not stunned.

You can see how it happened, and its causes, why would anyone expect anything different.

They just played the movie Office Space on TV, some interesting comments in that movie.

A friend seems to be making a reply on Nerve Stapling.

And a comment on the guy who didn't get the cake and was not greedy.


Office Space - Milton Swingline Stapler Scene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8CrvGndKzE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myuGaRYHDRI


The group of people that are not as greedy, that were treated wrongly without their share of cake is far more then any comment about me, just so people don't think that is what it is saying.

[blue97keet]

128. Driling at 5000 feet is like landing on the moon with no planning whatsoever

on how to return. The lack of foresight here is mind-blowing.

[U4ikLefty]

129. During the anti-war protests we ask "What price for oil?"

Perhaps now that it affects us, a few more may listen.

[femmocrat]

130. Yes, the only other disaster that had me scared this badly was Three Mile Island.

I really believe this will have consequences for decades and will affect us in ways we don't yet foresee.

I just have such a sense of doom about this catastrophe.

[scentopine]

131. Yes - of course, the healthy reaction would be the outrage as if someone raped one of your family...

and the alleged rapist is handing the investigation.

It is a fucking disaster of the worst magnitude - from Obama and BP are co-managing this and feeding us bullshit like 5000 barrels a day to BP saying this is just a small drop in the big ocean.

Unbelievable.

[JDPriestly]

133. Yes. This is potentially worse than 9/11 or Katrina.

And I used to live near the Gulf, so I am particularly torn apart by this. Those beaches may never be the same.

[pitohui]

165. it isn't worse than katrina

i know you said "potentially" right now i just have to hope that this potential doesn't come to pass

[Carolina]

135. We're peers

Inching close to 60 myself and I share your memories. What is happening in the Gulf has me deeply disturbed and as I read more and more, I get more fatalistic.

[boomerbust]

136. Might be a stretch

Tell that to my brother who did two tours in Viet Nam. Search and destroy. Who I just took to the VA hospital for the 10th time in the last 30 years. He is still struggling mightily to try and make sense of it all.

[Greybnk48]

137. I'm 61 and yes, I'm having a lot of trouble with it.

I keep thinking of the song "Look what they've done to song" by Melanie. Some events are life changing like the one's you've mentioned, and this is one of them as well. How sad.

[scarletwoman]

142. We're close in age, I'll be 61in November. What I feel is a deep psychic pain.

I really don't know how to describe it -- it's sort of like the rip in the earth is mirrored someplace deep inside my mind/soul.

I've never quite felt like this before.

I also feel like humanity has crossed a line. Mother Earth has been forgiving all our abuses over and over again. But this time, there will be no more forgiveness. I think humanity has irrevocably doomed itself, and the long unwinding of our time on this planet has begun.

We were given this beautiful garden on which to grow and learn, with everything we needed to live happily and well, and we've just kept killing each other and all the other life forms we share this planet with.

Sorry, I can't really write any more...

:cry:
sw

[tango-tee]

197. So well said, scarletwoman!

I'll be 58 next month; I live in Germany but my son and his family live very close to the Gulf coast.

It breaks my heart to see what has been done to Earth in the name of greed. At first it seemed this was only a vivid nightmare I could wake up from, but with each passing day and the escalating destruction that goes along with it, the fact that this is indeed reality has finally set in - along with a deep sense of foreboding.

[calimary]

230. I just turned 57. I feel sucker-punched by this. Every time I see a bird, the dogs

in the dog park, the damsel flies around our little back yard pond, the hummingbirds - and, yes, honeybees! - in the flowers - I feel like sobbing. I wonder how many more of them there will be, and when we will have thoughtlessly killed them all off. Will all you lovely Hummer drivers and drill-baby-drillers be satisfied then??????? When I saw a photo somewhere on the news of a damsel fly whose wings were smeared with oil, I just got sick to my stomach.

I know how you feel, scarletwoman. I am walking around with an ache in my heart ALL THE TIME!!!! I can't look around me without feeling a little bit sickened. What have we done? What have we done??? I find every prayer I say now starts with "Dear God - I'm SO SORRY!!!" We've tried and tried and tried to stop this! Personally, I drive a hybrid, and was very happy to quit my job that had me driving all over kingdom come, covering stories for the A.P., and driving half-an-hour each way to commute, so I could keep everything closer to home. My husband and I have both tried to walk the walk as well as talking the talk, teaching our kids - and their friends when we could - about environmental protection, rebuilding our home with solar power and recycled building components. Yeah, it cost more, but fuck it. You HAVE TO TAKE A STAND AND NOT JUST THINK ABOUT YOUR OWN DAMN SELFISH LITTLE SELF ANYMORE!!!!!! YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE EFFECTS YOU HAVE ON THE COMMUNITY, AND YES, THE WHOLE PLANET!!!!!!

Sorry about the yelling. Why here? Everyone here is on the same page. I'm yelling out of frustration and even a little desperation, I guess. It breaks my heart to imagine that - one day, the assholes who don't give a shit and figure that we can just rape and pillage over the earth and it won't matter at all because Jesus is coming back and then everything will be magically fixed - will suddenly wake up and feel aghast and just as sick as I do now. But by the time THEY finally see the light, it WILL be too late. They'll probably wake up after some major planetary die-off has occurred and their families are starting to starve and the land is barren and the oil is EVERYWHERE and there are no more birds and butterflies and honeybees - and there will also be no Instant Fantasy Rescue Jesus arriving on any fiery chariot to fix ANYTHING.

It just sickens me.

[donheld]

143. I"m having more trouble handling the fact that it seems like

so few others are having handling it. It seems like people are being far too nonchalant about the whole thing. Far too many seem to be making a mole hill out of what really is a mountain this time. I don't get it at all.

[atomic-fly]

144. stomach in knots over this

Really mad that the next attempt (top kill) was not the first thing they tried.
This is an environmental Hiroshima and it's going to have lasting effects.
Maybe we can finally wake up and go in a better direction, but I'm not
counting on it.

[MUAD_DIB]

145. I'm 40ish, my wife is 30ish and we're both stunned.

As long as Celebrity Apprentice is still on and MacDonalds will be serving hot triglycerides then I am sure that the peasantry of the USA will be comfortable.

[FlaGatorJD]

146. I have rarely lived more than a mile from the Gulf of Mexico . . . .

and I feel like sobbing on a daily basis.
:mad: :cry: :mad: :cry::mad: :cry::mad: :cry:

Please President Obama take control of this!

[ChiciB1]

159. I Can Walk To the Gulf Of Mexico From My House & The Beaches Here

have been touted WORLD WIDE as having the whitest sand of all! At least that's what we ALWAYS hear and I have seen it printed many times!

It's hard to put into words what kind of impact this is going to have on those of us who have lived here for so long! My husband is a "native" Floridian and I've lived here longer than any other place in my life, since 1971!

It's surreal like the Invasions of the Body Snatchers, but in TRUTH it's all TOO REAL!! It's knocking at my doorstep! I may soon smell that smell, and see the death that is coming, but I don't think anyone can fool themselves any longer, THIS is going to impact this WHOLE country and beyond!!

BLACK GOLD OF THE GREEDY!!

[BigBearJohn]

147. I am totally stunned that more resources arent being used to solve it.

[pitohui]

148. of course as i have had many profound experiences at grand isle

stunned is hardly the word as i was there only days before the disaster

i keep trying to think of something we could be doing but all of my ideas are as stupid as the hair-ball idea they had of getting all the hair from the beauty salons

i think people are in a state of mass shock frankly

[lunasun]

151. There are still people driving Hummers around where I live.

I would be stunned if we didn't have more problems like this as oil consumption continues to grow. I just do not see the majority "American public" accepting alternative transportation or smaller /electric cars in time to divert more disasters like this somewhere on mother earth. Plus the global changes that are very real.
Non petroleum products accepted too? Plastics are made with oil. I see an increase in consumption of that too. People will not even start with plastic bags let alone the whole industrial usage.
Truly stunned at what America has turned into . Remember the Native American with a tear crying on those Keep America Beautiful ads ??? You are old enough to maybe remember! Can U relate?

[jberryhill]

152. It is beyond belief /nt

[applegrove]

153. I feel so powerless and it isn't even my neck of the woods that is affected.

[Stardust]

157. I can't go to sleep without medication most nights...I'm 63 and freaked out. nt

[Andronex]

161. If they can insert a pipe to suck the oil then...

they can insert a steel device resembling an umbrella and pop it open inside the pipe and using the inside pressure to seal it, this is really low tech stuff and I can think of many more ways to deal with the spill, so I am thinking could this be deliberate, sounds crazy but after Katrina...

[pitohui]

164. it isn't deliberate

it sounds stupid-ass to me too but apparently at these deep waters the pressure does crazy things to the physics and chemistry (hence the strange ice crystals etc)

for something to be deliberate someone would have to benefit -- someone who was willing to make themselves a mass murderer to benefit, remember, 11 men were killed instantly in the explosion

who benefits from this? no one, there is no good side to this

[Statistical]

207. Sure you can do that.... and the pressure can simply force it out.

If it didn't it could still end badly, remember the riser pipe is damaged. Stopping flow at pipe end could simply result in breach somewhere else along the riser pipe or increase flow at the 2nd leak.

The leak needs to stop at the source that means the seal sealed inside the well (below BOP). History shows us this kind of spill takes long time to seal.

Ixtoc I is closes in similarity and that well leaked for 9 months despite best efforts of Mexican government (and technical assistance from all the majors). Ixtoc I also was only in hundred feet of water.

Ixtoc I leaked about 10K barrels a day for 9 months for a total release of around 3 million barrels (120 million gallons).

[highplainsdem]

166. I'm close to your age, and I've found the Gulf disaster devastating.

[snagglepuss]

167. It's totally numbing. How many disasters unfold so slowly and so

relentlesssly? It's very grim. I'm glad I don't have a TV, it's hard enough just reading about what is happening.

Sending out thoughts of peace,love and comfort.

O dreamy, gloomy, friendly Trees,
I came along your narrow track
To bring my gifts unto your knees
And gifts did you give back;
For when I brought this heart that burns--
These thoughts that bitterly repine--
And laid them here among the ferns
And the hum of boughs divine,
Ye, vastest breathers of the air,
Shook down with slow and mighty poise
Your coolness on the human care,
Your wonder on its toys,
Your greenness on the heart's despair,
Your darkness on its noise.

- Herbert Trench

[BEZERKO]

191. It really sucks,

I'm from Covington, Ga. and I like to go to Savannah whenever we can. I just hope that somehow the beach on Tybee Island will be spared, and the water doesn't take on a nasty aftertaste.

[Art_from_Ark]

192. I am stunned as well

I remember all the events you mentioned except the Cuban Missile Crisis. I've had apprehensions about a humongous environmental disaster since I was about 18 or so, and now I have a sinking feeling that The Big One is finally occurring, and our so-called leadership just doesn't seem to give a tinker's damn about it all.

[Cetacea]

195. Stunned and feeling hopeless.

Thanks for the thread.

[Jamastiene]

199. You are not alone.

It's both incredibly sad and incredibly infuriating at the same time.

[DailyGrind51]

201. I don't understand why no one has been arrested and charged with criminal negligence?

[Paper Roses]

202. I am having trouble too. I remember a little more, I'm older.

Every time I check, the reports(the real ones) get worse.

How far we have fallen.
Sad, unnecessary, life threatening.

We have fallen in our own eyes and in the eyes of the world.

[gleaner]

203. Yes, I am having a lot of trouble dealing with it ...

I am 62 years old and like you I have seen a lot of disasters both natural and man made, but this exceeds anything I can remember. Seemingly it is endless and that is troublesome too. I can see everything you mention and if the Gulf Stream catches the oil and pulls it into the current I can see the entire eastern seaboard affected and despoiled.

I am stunned and frustrated and feeling very helpless. We can't even depend on the administration to pull BP off and let some governmental and independent experts make a real effort to solve the problems and help protect what they can of the environment.

If it counts for anything, you are not alone in your feelings. It think there are many people all over the country who see it as you do. K & R.

[prismpalette]

208. living here and waiting

...the waiting is the worst and the wondering what will happen to our lives, our livelihood, our beaches our gulf and the environment. Waking everyday with the big question dangling in your life, Do we stay or go we go? If we go, where do we go. Waiting to hear that the bays and estuaries you have cleaned and supported for many years will be destroyed in a matter of months. Ones that have taken lifetimes to rebuild and years to come back after Ivan. Then wondering about our drinking water and the air we breathe now with aromatic hydrocarbon particulates floating about. Wondering if anyone has any answers and then spending the days with big knots in your stomach knowing this cancer -this volcano of oil in the gulf is a tsunamis coming ashore. In the back of your mind you are saying prayers to the hurricane gods-please not this year. Not while this horrible soup is boiling in the gulf. It is a Salvador Dali painting come to life.

[marions ghost]

245. welcome to DU prismpalette

but unfortunately it seems likely this disaster is what brings you here. You expressed what so many are feeling so clearly. The waiting, the worry, the feeling of unreality.

:grouphug:

[gleaner]

259. You gave us a beautiful post ..

It is very expressive and evocative. You put feelings that I could not define for myself into words. I am across the country on the west coat, but I still feel the loss of part of our country and its impact on all of us. So we all wait with you, and hopefully that makes it easier to endure.

Welcome to DU and I hope you stay with us and keep posting and lending us your voice. It is a good voice and we need it. It is a Salvador Dali painting. To me the it suggests "The Persistence of Memory" when time has stopped, because that is sure how it feels. Nothing seems to move. There is only waiting.

[BeFree]

214. Hey there yall

Thanks for this thread... after reading through it I feel better. Knowing that I am not alone with this deep pain is a help. Knowing there are others who care as much and maybe even more deeply than I is an affirmation.

Hang in there and don't let it get you down. That's what I keep telling myself.

Thanks again yall.

[cmneher]

209. Faygo Kid, I feel as you do.

For a month now I have mostly silently been keeping up with this unfolding disaster. I live in the midwest, so it is barely covered at all in the news, and no one talks about it. I have thought of other tragedies that have happened since I was born 49 years ago, and this is one of the worst, because the true impact has not been realized, and will be far reaching. The feeling of helplessness is bone numbing. The feeling is that life has changed forever, and it simply has. We have to remember that this is going to go on for a very long time. Therefore, we need to find positive ways to express the grief and sadness that can have a positive impact. I am trying to channel the pain into doing what I can: I have regularly been writing letters to BP, the President, members of Congress, and to the media (NBC, MSNBC, Huffington) who are strongly covering this story. Do what you can, and that is all you can do. I am heartened that there are others that feel as I do, please know you are not alone.

[Javaman]

211. Stunned is putting it mildly. My spirit has been greatly weakened. nt

[Jamastiene]

215. My aunt wanted me to post this for her.

She is not online, but she is 70 years old and just said this is making her sick. She said this was the worst she has ever seen and what is making it worse is that no one really seems to be doing anything to stop the oil from killing the oceans.

[ananda]

216. Yes!

I keep wondering when the day is coming when there will be
no breathable air.

[xiamiam]

219. 60 next month and this is the worst disaster in my lifetime and we dont even know what it is going

to do..we can imagine as we look at the horrifying volcano of oil and the dead animals...I also think everything should be tried other than bombing and toxic chemicals..sinking feeling about everything..the trillion dollars for war against fucking terrorists when big oil has terrorized the planet...heartbroken that we are so stupid and greedy..constantly reminded of profit over people and now its profit over the planet...we're so screwed and I dont think they can fix it..

[colsohlibgal]

220. It's Beyond Awful

It's just stunning and also stunning that we didn't go at this with all we have right away. Obama has been his usual wishy washy self and that's regrettable.

Reagan deserves a lot of blame when you take a long view, Carter tried to get us started in the right direction - but Ronnie scotched that right away after the "October Surprise" gave him the White House.

[woofless]

221. Yes

[Rosa Luxemburg]

222. I remember Chenobyl

I was in the UK at the time and I worried how much radioactivity we were going to get. The poor souls who lived close.

This latest oil rig disaster is probably one of the worst.

[tavalon]

223. Yes, thank you for being able to verbalize what I haven't

I'm numb. I think I should feel anger, even outrage, but I'm just heartsick.

[leftyladyfrommo]

224. Me. I can't even read about it.

I feel like vomiting. And then I just start to cry.

It's absolutely horrible.

And no one seems to be doing anyting about it.

[valerief]

228. Nothing our whore congress permits stuns me anymore, but I agree. This disaster is right up there.nt

[harmonicon]

231. I'm afraid to say that I'm really not.

Maybe it's because I'm younger (30's) and have spent the majority (entirety?) of my life just knowing that the earth is fucked and watching no one with any power to do anything about it do anything about it.

I'm in no way surprised. I have a friend who characterized W. as a nihilist, saying that it seemed that he just wanted to destroy the world... I don't think that's far off, and I don't think it's only W. who could be characterized that way.

The majority of people in the US have been acting as if mountain top removal mining (the name itself would have been inconceivable a hundred years ago, and seems like something a super-villain would do) or are simply unaware of it.

I was in the car with some friends and their daughter the other week, and the daughter was asking her mom about these signs where people were protesting the building of a new wind farm. The kid just didn't get why people would protest this, even if people really didn't like the turbines by their houses. She said something like "so, they'd rather have polar bears go extinct than have windmills by their house?" - and that's just it; they would.

Most people in the US and many other parts of the world would rather have McDonald's, cheap gas, digital cable, etc. than the Gulf of Mexico and all of the life forms in it. I know that. I'm not surprised by this - it's the way of the world, and I don't know what I can do about it.

[Stuart G]

233. I am..it is much worse than anyone thought, and will get much worse...nt

[happygoluckytoyou]

234. YOU LEFT OUT THE ELECTION OF GEORGE DUBYA BUSH...a clear winner of disasters

[happy_liberal]

235. This isn't about overpopulation- It is about the battle of good and evil

I see so many thinking this is about too many people using too many resources. Bullshit. BP is greedy. This is about greedy bastards taking everything for themselves and not giving a shit about the rest of us.

There is plenty of space left on the planet for people. There are plenty of resources if we just embrace as MLK called it "a radical revolution of values". We don't even need the freaking oil anymore, there are so many alternatives. But the same bastards buy up the plans and burn them. The problem is the greedy evil bastards.

Let's just look at evil bastard #1

In charge of company that did bad cementing job(s)(and how many more are accidents waiting to happen?), just bought company to clean up oil spills....create the problem, benefit from the solution.

But I believe Cheney is more than just greedy. I think he is the living devil. I think he hates us, he hates God and he hates the earth most of all. His goal is to make this earth a living hell. He has his hands in everything. The only think more important to Dick Cheney than money, is making people suffer. He will not stop...ever! He has mad scientists working on a way to keep his brain alive forever!

I'm sure you all think this is crazy, but we are not to sit back and say 'oh well we are all screwed-humanity is going to die' There are just a few evil bastards ruining everything. This is not humanity's fault. We have to stop the bastards and reclaim our paradise. Together, with love, we are more powerful that this overwhelming evil.

[Flipper999]

236. I'm 28, and what gets to me is the country's collective "meh" on this problem

When people talk about it, they seem concerned, but the spill doesn't seem real to them. Unless you're living along the Gulf Coast and can smell the oil, it just looks like an underwater smokestack somewhere in the far out gulf. Most people lack the imagination for this to seem 'real'.

People feel helpless because... most of us are. Every election cycle, we try to elect someone worthwhile. The push to be Obama into office was amazing. But then... so little changed. The damage of the past few administrations appears to be permanent. The right wing has dismantled most of the New Deal. Unions, environmentalists, civil rights workers; they have been impotent since I was a child. Who is capable of taking on companies like BP?

I was born in the era of Reagan. I have seen nothing but corporate control in all of that time. The disasters born of greed and incompetence keep piling up. We are told to consume and reproduce endlessly, so that is what we do.

My other half and I have chosen to have no kids. Life is too chaotic, and we both work too much to be proper parents. Plus, this planet is trashed. No need to subject anyone else to this.

[G_j]

237. you bet

:cry::cry::cry:

[abelenkpe]

238. Younger but equally troubled

Honestly it's giving me nightmares, sleepless nites, etc. I Feel powerless to do anything other than write strongly worded letters. Which we all know are so very effective. Most people seem determined to ignore it which I just cannot understand.
So yes, stunned, dismayed and completely freaked out...

[old mark]

239. It is just beginning and the media and most politicians have no grasp of the seriousness

of this dieaster. We may be seeing a the start of a very serious change of the planet,with world wide negative results.
Remember we are stil cleaning the Exxon Valdez spill from 1989...

Many people seem to think we can "fix" this in a few months or years, but I believe this could have hardly happened in a worse place.

The ONLY "good" is that McCain is not president.

mark

[Teka]

241. I am so angry and sad right now

Stunned.

[L0oniX]

242. This will also be the death of Florida ...which I am sure will make many happy.

[Duval]

243. Faygo Kid, my husand and I are with you. We are

ages 70 and 71.and, NO,I have never seen such a disaster and my heart hurts for the people who make their living on the coast, for those who will be indirectly affected the soonest. Is it naive to wish the Army Corps of Engineers were done there?? I don't "get it" that BP calls the shots. I don't "get" a lot of what is going on. The Serenity Prayer helps, but a community get-together works the best.:hurts:

[getthefacts]

244. I can't get my head around it

I don't want to sound apocalyptic, but we have to be able to plug that hole soon.

[grantcart]

247. 56 and nauseated

Interestingly I just don't see the same reaction among my kids and their friends.

Which makes it even worse for me.

Where are the students and the demonstratons. Sigh.

[1Hippiechick]

248. I'm 63; and I'm scared to death at the repercussions to the entire planet FROM THIS ERUPTING VOLCANO

We have known since the 60s and 70s that we needed to look for alternative energy sources, but here we sit, killing marine life, killing to the point of extinction marine life, ending the livelihood for fisheries and tourism im the gulf, not to mention the environmental impact. How disgusted the rest of the world must be with this us. I am, and I am EXTREMELY disappointed in my President's lack of response!

[merh]

250. I'm disgusted, depressed and frightened.

And oh so very tired. We were just getting on our feet after Katrina.

:cry:

[slackmaster]

255. I'm finding it very hard to get my head around the scale of it compared to other disasters

It's unprecedented in the amount of visual data we have access to through means other than traditional media. BP is providing real-time streaming video from the floor of the Gulf, showing dark crud and gas spewing from a pipe they tell us is about 21 inches in diameter. The blue cast of the artificial lights in the scene give the false impression of a familiar warm, shallow tropical environment.

How much is flowing and its significance compared to the volume of the Gulf, I can't grasp.

Where the oil is all going, I can't really get a handle on that either. The mess on the surface can be seen easily from weather satellite photos, and closer shots from various aircraft and vessels.

I don't know how bad it is compared to my only real benchmark, which is the 1969 spill in the Santa Barbara Channel. I saw plenty of that with my own eyes, cleaned it off my feet hundreds of times. I'll bet I could still find an occasional tarball on the beach in San Diego.

Obviously the mess in the Gulf is bad. Our easy ability to see it either exaggerates its severity, or puts it into sharp focus. I really don't know how well the ecosystems are going to deal with this insult, or how far it will spread, or how many people will be affected or in what ways.

I can make educated guesses, but I really don't comprehend the scale yet.

[Karenina]

260. My worst childhood fears are now reality.

When we learned about Venus, I remember thinking, "Oh dear, somebody messed up royally."

[MikeH]

265. I am 59, and will be 60 in December

I definitely remember the other disasters, or crises, which you mention.

I remember the Cuban missile crisis which happened when I was in 7th grade. I was having some of my own problems at the time, with school, and just having started junior high school. I remember 7th grade was a very rough time for me. I was also not mature, and while I was definitely aware that something was happening at the time, it was later that I came to fully realize how serious this crisis actually was. It is fortunate that during this crisis the worst that could have happened did not happen.

I remember the assassinations, starting with JFK. I was in 8th grade and definitely felt the sense of loss. At the time, based on what I knew, I had no reason to think that the assassination was anything more than the random act of a lone nut. And I didn’t think that Jack Ruby shooting Lee Harvey Oswald was anything more than somebody who was distraught about the Kennedy assassination deciding to take the law into his own hands. (It didn’t even at first occur to me that with Oswald being killed we were deprived of something very important, namely the chance to hear anything he would have had to say about the assassination of Kennedy.)

The Martin Luther King and RFK assassinations happened when I was a senior in high school; the RFK assassination was a week before I graduated from high school. I remember 1968 was a very tumultuous year, and I myself was having my own personal problems. It was painful to think of the King assassination and especially the assassination of JFK’s brother to come on top of the JFK assassination.

The sense of what we really lost in the assassinations of JFK, RFK, and King is something that fully occurred to me much later. I don’t have any special knowledge, but I have a very hard time believing that all of the assassinations have been simply random events by lone gunmen.

I have always had some anxiety about the world, and about things working out for the good of all. Starting in 1970 I was worried about the environment and overpopulation, which was much talked about that year. In recent years I have been worried about global warming, and have been upset about the GW Bush misadministration and the damage done by his misadministration, and at the realization that the problems started earlier, at least as early as with Reagan, if not earlier. I did not fully realize how bad Reagan was going to be at the time.

With these other things I have been somewhat numbed to hearing news about the gulf disaster. I feel some uneasiness about the fact that the gulf disaster, and things like global warming, have so far not impacted me personally in any major way, but I have to think that it is only a matter of time before they do affect me.

One thing that I am very happy about is the fact that I do not have any children. I would have a very hard time worrying about what kind of world any children or grandchildren of mine would have to be living in and dealing with. I think it is still possible, theoretically at least, for me to have children even at my age. I absolutely would not want to have any children, especially now, and have to tell them about things like global warming, and the probable death of the Gulf of Mexico, and the overall threat to the sustainability of the planet, and the fact that much of this threat come from overpopulation and the fact that we in the United States collectively are responsible for much of the threat to the planet’s sustainability.

I have also been upset in recent years about the realization of the inordinate power and influence of the wealthy and corporate elite, and how they work to frustrate attempts to make things better for the average person, and those who are poor and less fortunate, and how they have worked to reverse the benefits of the New Deal and other liberal programs. That is something I would hate to tell my children about, if I were to have children.