In Arizona, immigrant couple lives in anxiety

[IScreamSundays]

Source: LA Times

Reporting from Phoenix

The day Arizona's governor signed the strictest immigration law in the country — tasking police with checking the immigration status of those they stop and suspect to be in the country illegally — Maria thought it might be the last straw for her family.

For six years Maria, a U.S. citizen, and her husband, Salvador, who is in the country illegally, have tried to make sure he isn't caught up in a raid or sweep or traffic enforcement operation. To avoid his deportation, the couple takes precautions that, when synthesized, go something like this:

Avoid driving at night. Avoid unnecessary trips — grocery shopping once a week is best.

Stay home. Stay and care for the garden. Enjoy the blueberry bushes and the apricot trees, and mow the lawn. Keep it nice. Try to deflect, as much as possible, their 4-year-old daughter's questions about going to Disneyland.

snip>

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-immigrant-family-20100524,0,3074586.story

[PDJane]

1. It is one hell of a way to live..........

Especially since those here legally seem to be following the same rules. And if she is here legally, why can't she sponsor her husband?

[EFerrari]

3. In some states, you used to be able to apply for citizenship if you married

a citizen. That law changed in CA sometime ago -- maybe in the late 80s or early 90s.

[Lasher]

7. But can't you get LPR status instead in that case?

Honest question.

[marybourg]

9. Citizenship laws are federal, not state. Plus, marrying a citizen is no longer

a free pass to citizenship. He'd have to go back to Mexico, apply at a U.S. consulate there and wait a very long time (about 13 years curently, I believe) to be allowed to come back. It's almost impossible given the current state of the laws.

[EFerrari]

16. You're right. What was I thinking. But it wasn't that way as late as the 80s.

[Name removed]

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[SargeUNN]

2. well now we know where the Grand Canyon really is

in the space where a heart is suppose to be in those like Russell Pearce, Jan Brewer, Joe Arpaio and their kind. Funny thing is to hear their cries of God leading them and last time I checked Jesus even offered a parable with the enemy being the good guy.

[happygoluckytoyou]

5. even with the grand canyon as an example.. people don't know their ASSES from a hole in the ground

[struggle4progress]

4. Why are all the "family values" folk so quiet about cases like this?

[EFerrari]

6. I would guess shame but maybe that's too optimistic.

As with every other minority civil rights movement, these families need allies who are willing to stand with them. People who really do value families.

[Bluebear]

8. Easy. Those types would be the last to give a shit about people like this.

[krabigirl]

23. Because they only care about forcing their "values" on other families.

[classysassy]

10. Too bad,Jan,Joe and Russell

are safe in their abodes, and I bet those heartless hatemongers sleep well at night.Jan you will not get my vote this november you hateful hag.Sheriff Joe I hope you are indited by the federal government before election day so you want be able to vote.Pearce you mormon moron I hope you are deported back to Utah." I can dream can't I ".

[Name removed]

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[Scout]

11. while i have sympathy for their plight now, i don't blame anyone but them.

they put themselves into this situation. they did have alternatives.

[classysassy]

12. Yes they do

they can live in poverty,why don't you try it?I bet you call yourself a Christian,if so shame on you God will remember you on His return.

[Better Today]

13. They come here and live in poverty and fear and in hiding, how is that any better?

It always frustrates me the two-sided problem that #1 if the stay in Mexico they live in poverty, however #2 when they come here they work for supposedly shit wages, live in the shadows, and are constantly in fear of being found. Sounds like the frying pan into the fire to me. But while they are here taking jobs for shit wages, they are hurting our legal citizens and legal immigrants wages and standard of living. Letting them stay because of your "heart" feels it's a good idea is stupid and costly to our society.

[readmoreoften]

14. They're undocumented. They're not idiots. I'm sure if they're here, that means they prefer it.

The explosion of drugs and poverty in Mexico since 1994 is due to NAFTA. It's due to corn subsidies and multinational corporate takeover of indigenous lands. The destruction of corn farming as an industry has lead to marijuana growing to take its place--much of it consumed by people in the US. Mexicans didn't get the opportunity to vote for politicians who opposed NAFTA nor will they get to vote for ones who would repeal it.

What is stupid and costly to our society is the idea that the American working class' problem is the Mexican working class. It's not. If undocumented workers were documented and unionized, they'd be no more a threat to your job than a native born US citizen who plopped out of the womb of a women with proper documentation.

[Better Today]

15. Well, I'd prefer a shitload too, but like many others, we don't get what we

want and if we try to achieve it illegally, no one is going to be sitting around crying for us.

They cost us a lot, when they come illegally and work for shit wages, even in jobs that aren't shit jobs, like construction. It allows employers to keep wages low, stagnant, and then lower... gee hasn't that been the case now for decades here in the States? Not all because of illegals, but they sure don't help. We have an obligation to our citizens before we have an obligation to others', imo. When we have low unemployment, affordable insurance, affordable housing, sensible social safety nets for those with mental disorders, ... for the citizens and the legally immigrating persons and families, then I'll worry about having some heart for the illegals.

NAFTA is certainly a problem, but it isn't like we didn't have illegals a plenty before that, I know I was raised in Texas, and I'm waaaaaay older than NAFTA.

[EFerrari]

25. Nope. Before NAFTA and before Raygun's dirty wars

there were mostly people who did a yearly run and went home and a small group of people who wanted to come here to live. NAFTA dislocated hundreds of thousands of farmers and of course, Raygun dislocated probably almost as many people who survived his Central American wars.

[Better Today]

30. Your information doesn't match up with what I know to be true in Texas

But then again, you bring in Reagan... that was decades before NAFTA which is what I was referring to.

[EFerrari]

32. No, Raygun was not decades before NAFTA.

ETA: NAFTA was passed in 94 or so. Raygun left in 89.

[Better Today]

37. Yeah, but Reagan was in office for 8 years, so 8+5+ the time it took

for NAFTA to really begin effecting anything is in fact decades. IF you count from Reagan's inauguration, then I might agree with you that illegals were a problem since then, perhaps even before, but sure since then. If you're trying to say NAFTA was the problem, then I say, no, illegals were a problem since my awareness of the situation in my teens in Texas. My teen years were the early and middle 70's.

[EFerrari]

42. You don't count wars from Raygun's inauguration but from when he started them.

And, btw, there has always been a large Mexican and Mexican American community in parts of Texas. How do you know those people were "illegals"?

[Flaneur]

64. I don't know any "illegals."

I do, however, know some human beings who lack certain pieces of paper.

[alstephenson]

69. Thank you, Flaneur.

That needed to be said.

[alstephenson]

68. "illegals a plenty"...

It's way easier to talk about them "illegals" when you de-humanize them...

[Romulox]

17. Unless every worker in the world is unionized, and in solidarity, then there is always somebody

willing to work cheaper.

And, just for reference regarding solidarity, ask our DU teacher's union advocates if they support the UAW... :shrug:

[Better Today]

33. I agree with the concep to global unionization, but I'm don't get what the rest of your

post is saying. What do teachers and the UAW have to do with illegal immigrants?

[Romulox]

35. I'm saying domestic unions, both resident in my community, are not in solidarity

I am extrapolating from this that the hope for international solidarity is a chimera.

[EFerrari]

40. Last week ICE raided the biggest maintenance contractor in San Francisco.

It's a union shop and hundreds of people may lose their jobs now. These people were being organized here in CA by some unions. ICE is ending that. Which is pretty much union busting and puts the lie to the claim that ICE focuses on criminal immigrants and also to the claim that these people are a problem because they drive down wages.

[Romulox]

65. The labor unions representing those laborers were broken long ago.

It's silly to pretend that the unions that replaced the ones broken by the influx of cheap labor are somehow in solidarity with the workers they've displaced. :hi:

[EFerrari]

78. Organizing those workers is the smartest move a union can make

since we still don't have time travel. It worked very well for the hotel workers in Los Angeles the last time they struck. There was no place for management to go.

[alstephenson]

67. Good point and well said.

[EFerrari]

19. These people don't "hurt" anybody. They pay taxes just as you do.

[Better Today]

34. Depends on your definition of "hurt," I've watched wages drop in

areas like construction and home care and other arenas where Americans would love to work, just not for minimum wage. And the jobs shouldn't be minimum wage, imo.

"Hurt" is a subjective term, and not useful in this discussion, imo.

[EFerrari]

36. You introduced the term. These workers don't come here

and pay themselves nothing. If they all go home today, the same power structure remains and will continue to fight against labor in this country.

In fact, they have been going home for the last three years. I don't see wages skyrocketing, do you?

[Better Today]

39. At no point did I say they were they only problem. You're really grasping here.

They are illegal, hence they should return to the home country, unless and until we decide to have 100% open borders.

[EFerrari]

41. I'm following your logic and apparently even you don't agree with it.

[Better Today]

45. Then I guess you are misinterpreting my logic.

You and I are usually on the same page with most topics. I'm okay that we are not on this topic. I hope you will be as well. Even like minds can't agree all the time.

[EFerrari]

55. Well, I'm sorry to be shrill.

The thing is, abut 85-90% of what we think we know about undocumented immigrants turns out to be wrong. If you, on your own, fact check what is endlessly either repeated or assumed in the media, you can see this for yourself.

They do pay taxes, their crime rate is actually lower than most groups, they add to the economy, they do learn English, and they did come here in response to American policy which drove them north and they've been going in the other direction for some time now.

People get exercised about wages being driven down. The truth is, our wages have been flat and lagging since I started working in the mid-seventies. The big waves of immigrants started after that, not before. They started exactly under Raygun and Bush 1 kept them going, Clinton exploded them with NAFTA which decimated ag in southern Mexico and doubled the population along the northern border.

Another interesting effect is that laws such as the one that just pass in AZ don't result in higher wages for Americans or even legal citizens. They result in shuttered businesses. That's what has happened everywhere these laws have been passed.

The stability and economic well being of these immigrants is intimately bound up with our own. If they all left tomorrow, tens of thousands of communities all over this country would go belly up. And every corporation that could would outsource their operation and off shore their profits.

Riling up nationalism against these people is a distraction with little basis in reality. And the anti-immigrant movement is driven, at bottom, by white nationalists and the right wing who uses the issue to rally their base.

[alstephenson]

72. Not shrill. Right on.

[alstephenson]

71. Here we go again. It's one or the other.

Either deport every undocumented immigrant NOW, or open the borders. What about comprehensive immigration reform???

[alstephenson]

66. "Costly to our society"....

In what way? And please spare me the RW talking points...

[krabigirl]

20. So you suggest the family be separated?

[Scout]

24. nope, i'm saying they put themselves into this situation, knowingly and with eyes open. n/t

[krabigirl]

27. She is here legally.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. SShhh - facts are unnecessary

[Scout]

48. no one disputed the fact that she is here legally --- sssshhhh! n/t

[Scout]

47. yes, she is here legally. and she KNOWINGLY married someone

who was here illegally, and then "hid" him, and they had a child here.

so they CREATED THEIR OWN MESS, with eyes open.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. So it's now a crime to fall in love.

Gotcha.

[Scout]

51. :rofl: nope, you can fall in love all you want ... but don't marry an illegal immigrant

and then expect to get away with it and cry and moan "but we wuz in luv, we couldn't help ourselves" we knowingly did something illegal, and then lived in fear and hiding for years, now feel sorry for us cuz we wuz in luv

:rofl: at proud2BlibKansan's posts

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Your lack of tolerance is duly noted

I'd laugh but I don't find it funny. Only very sad.

[EFerrari]

61. Marrying an immigrant is not illegal unless in your estimation, she is illegal

by virtue of being a Latina.

[Scout]

79. he was here illegally before she married him, correct?

so, the marriage itself wasn't illegal, but him continuing to live here was.

[EFerrari]

84. Unlawful but not criminal. Until Brewer decided to take Federal law

into her own unconstitutional hands.

[alstephenson]

73. Major snark alert.

How immature.

[knitter4democracy]

70. Probably because they thought he'd be able to get a green card through her.

They've been cracking down on this for the last several years, though, and frankly, it costs thousands of dollars to navigate the system. You need an immigration attorney to do it, and they cost a ton of money. On top of that, you need witnesses, written documentation, pictures, and on and on. It's practically a full-time job to make it happen--and that's if you have the money to do it in the first place.

My mom married an immigrant, and I saw what they went through for him to get his green card. It was horrifically expensive and insane. The INS was deliberately disrespectful more than once, showing an appalling lack of empathy or concern about human issues, and the lawyer cost them a small fortune. It all worked out, thank goodness, but it's definitely not an easy process (not that it should be easy, but if you've never been through it, you have no idea how insanely difficult it really is).

[Name removed]

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[proud2BlibKansan]

21. How dare they want a better life!

How unAmerican!!

[Taitertots]

26. Should I illegally immigrate to Canada?

I live in the Detroit metro area, I'm well below the poverty line.

[krabigirl]

28. I've thought about it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Don't believe you'd have to

unless Canada adopts immigration policies similar to our policy on immigration from Central America.

[Lance_Boyle]

38. Research that some more.

It's not at all easy for an American citizen to emigrate to Canada legally. A former Michigan auto worker would stand the proverbial snowball's chance in hell absent some other "in demand" skills.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. Well if you fall in love with a Canadian and want to live there, you'd be in the same boat

as the couple in the OP. Hopefully it would help you develop some compassion and understanding of their situation.

[SoCalDem]

44. Getting into Canada is not as easy as some think

countries with stricter policies actually have "criteria" for the people they admit.

It's a sad fact that there are limited resources...in families..in countries.

If you are making dinner for your own family, and 8 or nine extras show up, it's going to a difficult to make sure everyone gets adequate food.. Sure, you could always cook more (if you have it) and it's only once, but if those extra people moved IN with you, and you have to work with that reality day in and day out, you would feel a pinch.

There will always be a need for manual labor, BUT with so many young people who are citizens, not finishing high school, there is no shortage of strong young people who could do those jobs, as they used to do.

We have along border with mexico, and people will always cross it, and as long as the lure of jobs here vs NO jobs there persists, not a lot will change.

NAFTA and the setting up of the maquilladoras lured people to "just across the border", then many of the jobs that caused them to move north, went overseas, as Mexicans started demanding decent living wages and some decent housing, many of those people just came further north,,,,into the US.

Many people live their entire lives here , in the shadows. Some will be "caught", but many manage to stay under the radar, as long as they are willing to live "small".

The fact is this.. NO "policy" will stop people from coming here, if they want to come here, and can physically GET here. Once here, they either need to be assimilated or sent back.. there are no other choices. Each "side" has its own set of problems, and no politician has an answer that will work universally.

[Name removed]

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[EFerrari]

63. I don't think that's true. If we stop tanking democracy in Latin America

whenever Dole, Chiquita or Exxon want us to, more reformers would be in power and the flow would go down.

Bush neglected Latin America and 6 reformers were able to be voted in. The food security in most of those countries has improved, just for starters.

[Scout]

49. i would love to move to Canada ... but i don't qualify. i don't work in the industries

they need, and i don't get extra points for speaking french, because i don't!

eta: hey, my husband has family there! we should just go for a visit, and overstay, and then get jobs, and when they try to get rid of us we can cry "but so what we did it illegally, we are here now, we have a life here now."

[Obamanaut]

60. What's this? Requirements for legal immigration? Horrors and how

dare they! Perhaps there should be a massive influx of folks from their southern border, then demand amnesty and/or an easier path to citizenship.

[treestar]

83. And you would, if it really was the margin of survival

You set yourself up as so superior to them. Yet in the same situation, you'd do it. You just aren't in that situation. You were born here. You're not morally superior, just born in the right place.

[theHandpuppet]

86. Just wondering

Do you know what the immigration laws are in Mexico? Do you know how many illegal immigrants (mostly from Central America) Mexico detains and deports every year? Between 100,000 to nearly 200,000 a year. Some of you folks act as if every country other than the U.S. has an open door policy and that's not only a joke, it's sorely lacking in facts. If you think it's tough trying to legally immigrate from Mexico to the U.S. try being a Mexican citizen who wants to immigrate to Spain. Or try being an American who wants to immigrate to Canada. NO COUNTRY is equipped to handle millions of undocumented workers streaming across their borders every year.

Our country is in desperate need of true immigration reform and that includes an effective process for granting work visas to citizens from Mexico and Central America. It also includes a crackdown on businesses that employ undocumented workers. But until our leaders in D.C. -- the ones we elected on the promise of "change" -- decide to get off their collective asses and work on immigration reform, border states have pretty much been left to fend for themselves to handle this situation and the ensuing overreaction -- such as what happened in AZ -- was totally predictable. I fully expected the new laws in AZ to have spurred some positive movement on this issue on D.C. but this administration and our Democratic leaders in Congress seem paralyzed when it comes to touching any issue that smacks of REAL reform, whether that's immigration or gay rights or the environment.

[alstephenson]

74. You'd get much better health care!

[treestar]

82. You would if it really would be the difference between survival and not

You were born in the US, being below the poverty line is still, well, you're still a US citizen. You still have that boon in your life. and you obviously believe things will get better without your going to Canada. Straw man. You'd be there now if you thought it would make a major difference to you.

[Taitertots]

85. It could be the difference between dying without health care or living illegally in Canada

When I graduate I'm considering moving legally.

Obviously, I'm not going to start a life in a new country when they will deport me if I'm caught. I'll only be better off until they catch me.

[Name removed]

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[EFerrari]

62. It's so useful for working people to turn on each other. That always works. n/t

[EFerrari]

29. The mother and the little girl are American citizens.

You can't lump everyone together. These families belong to a very old ethnic community and as the article says, you find every kind of status there.

Or, maybe you can lump them all together.

[Skip Intro]

77. +1

[treestar]

80. We did lull them into a false sense of security

by not enforcing the laws.

Anyway, you are lucky to have been born where you were.

[NNN0LHI]

18. This family could be assaulted by some good old boys and couldn't report it to the police

Imagine living like that?

Don

[krabigirl]

22. Yep...the law is working as intended. Just my opinion ...very sad.

[Name removed]

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[mynameiswhat]

75. I would be scared if i was breaking the law as well.

[Skip Intro]

76. Indeed. nt

[treestar]

81. and you were lucky to be born in the US

and my, aren't you a snob about it!