NYC proposes mandatory saving for homeless with jobs

[Liberal_in_LA]

NYC proposes mandatory saving for homeless with jobs

By Martha T. Moore, USA TODAY

NEW YORK — Homeless New Yorkers who live in shelters but have jobs would be required to put part of their wages into savings under a new city proposal.

Almost 36,000 people, including 8,350 families with children, live in shelters in New York. About 20% have jobs, according to the city Department of Homeless Services.

A family of three earning $10,000 a year would need to put aside $36 a month in interest-bearing savings under the proposal. The family would get access to the money upon moving out of the shelter.

Requiring savings will help families build a nest egg for security deposits and other costs of moving into a permanent home, says Homeless Services Commissioner Seth Diamond. "What we're trying to do is support working people and give them a route out of the shelter system."

The proposal is an alternative to charging working shelter residents rent, as required by a 1997 state regulation. The city began enforcing the rule last year after the state fined it $2.5 million for not doing so. Homeless advocacy groups objected, the Legal Aid Society threatened to sue, and the city stopped. The plan to mandate savings requires a change in the regulation, Diamond says.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-05-27-homeless_N.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno

[babylonsister]

1. Hmmm, would this be before or after they pay rent to NYC?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8169562

A NYC plan to charge homeless people rent in the middle of a recession -- cruel, or just crazy?


Edit to add: I see now it's an alternative to paying rent.

[aquart]

5. Not the worst idea.

And this was WORKING homeless. You can work 40 hours a week in this city and not be able to afford a place the size of a closet.

[Donnachaidh]

2. wow - bloomberg really wants to aid his bankster buddies

Give then the few extra pennies the homeless have so they can continue playing derivative casino....

[RandomThoughts]

3. Yea that tries to somehow say the banks are a good place to put money.

But from what has been seen by how some of the bigger banks have managed things, and what their priorities are, it is really a hard argument to defend that people should put money into some banks.

Some smaller banks might have a better track record, but making people put money in institutions that do not have a motive to treat depositors as important as 'profit first' outside of modest income is a bit of an issue.

Sounds more like an attempt to control all money of all people.

[aquart]

11. Or maybe the accounts will be at a local credit union?

Or the Amalgamated bank? Since the amounts will really be too small to interest the big boys.

[Donnachaidh]

36. I'd give odds Chase or one of the biggies puts in a *bid* for the accounts

those scumbags are the sort of predatory lenders who probably put this bug in Bloomberg's ear. *Interest the big boys* -- bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

[tonysam]

12. You know it isn't for the people's good. Somebody is getting something out of this. n/t

[jwirr]

4. How will this effect earned income for food stamps, housing vouchers,

health care programs etc. If that is counted as income then they are going to get cut at both ends.

[aquart]

7. It's already earned. It's part of the salary already taken into account.

Why would they count it twice? It won't be counted twice on the tax return.

[Raineyb]

14. The interest would be additional income. And if you have anything in the bank

medicaid will go after it. I don't trust this at all.

[Demstud]

35. Only if it's over a certain amount though, right?

From my experience, the interest on savings accounts are so minuscule these days that none of these people will make any significant amount off of $36/month savings.

[Raineyb]

50. Medicaid will go after the savings itself.

They don't want you to have ANYTHING aside.

[jwirr]

17. If it is counted as income in these programs they will give them less.

It is income but it is not discretionary income if they are forced to put it into savings. So they have less real income to spend of food etc. and less food stamps etc.

[bobbolink]

8. You got it.

:nuke:

Treating poor people like they are stoooooooopid and caused their own problems angers me more than anything else in the world!!!!

[aquart]

10. Except that isn't what is going on here, is it?

[Statistical]

44. It will be $2.71 more income for the year.

$30 saved each month at 2% APR (unlikely they would get that much) compounded monthly would result in

$362.72 at end of first year. $360 in principle and $2.72 in interest (income).

[Raineyb]

6. Bloody hell does he have any idea how much these banks charge if you don't have 500 bucks minimum?

Not to mention how difficult it is to get an account without an address

Never mind we're talking about Bloomberg that fucker doesn't have a fucking clue how the rest of us lives.

I suppose this $36 bucks a month will be after they pay a chunk of their meager income to NYC for the "privilege" of sleeping on a cot in a shelter in the first place?

I can't stand that son of a bitch.

[aquart]

9. Obviously a special arrangement has to be made for these accounts.

We used to have passbook accounts in school. Every week I put a dollar in and ended up with a bicycle.

And you really don't read beyond headlines. THIS IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO RENT. THIS MONEY WILL BE SOLELY THE FAMILY'S MONEY WHEN THEY LEAVE THE SHELTER. The intention is clearly to help them save the first and last month's deposit required with rentals.

Above all, what money mounting in a bank account does is give a family HOPE, a reason to believe they will eventually have better. And that affects everything.

[Raineyb]

13. Then they'd have to depend on the kindness of the banks?

The only exception I've ever seen those greedy bastards make is an account for children. And only then if you ask for it. I will admit there are free accounts but trust me the fees for other things on it will make it a rather expensive alternative. I get the feeling that Bloomberg is looking for some way to nickel and dime people who don't have much to begin with while his rich buddies continue to shove money in their pockets.


This asshole is the same prick who let the rent guideline's board raise the rents on rent stabilized apartments a whopping 3 and 6% during a bloody recession when the landlord costs didn't go up. I don't trust a damn thing he proposes. Nothing. Bloomberg does not have the best interests of these families at heart. He's probably pissed he couldn't find some other place to ship them.

[bobbolink]

15. Yup, "depend on the kindness of the banks"

You said it exactly right.

[Book Lover]

41. "...help them save the first and last month's deposit..."

Look, I'm bad with numbers. Can someone help me with how long it takes to make $3,000 out of $36/month? (basing my numbers on doubling the average rent I see for 1 bedroom apartments in Brooklyn on Craigslist http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/abo/brk?bedrooms=1 )

[Raineyb]

49. It would take over 83 months just to get the 3000.

(Yes nearly 7 years) Assuming that there wasn't some emergency that made dipping into that money necessary and the cost of an apartment doesn't go up. (It seems like the city is planning on keeping the family from accessing that savings until after they move out which doesn't really make it sound any better but perhaps I've misunderstood.)

[JVS]

54. What does it matter how long it takes to make 3000 out of 36/month?

With 10K/ year as the income of the family, they'll never be able to keep up with rent on a 1k/month apartment

[Book Lover]

56. Oh, agreed

I was too subtle in making my point, I see.

[Mojeoux]

16. This is SO creepy. Especially because it pretends to be nicey nice.

Fuckers

[bobbolink]

18. Exactly.

Exactly.

Exactly.

I have seen so much......

I will never forget seeing a sign in a food bank in a small town reminding people who come in for food that they are REQUIRED TO TAKE A MONEY-HANDLING COURSE IN ORDER TO GET FOOD!!

In other words, the only possible reason that people would be in need of food is because they don't know how to handle money properly!

That would account for why so many in the military are on food stamps. :grr:

It is disrespect and dismissal like this that is fueling a deep-seated rage in poor folk!

[SoxFan]

19. Did anyone besides Aquart and Babylonsister read the freaking article?

* Nobody is being charged rent. This is an alternativeto charging rent.

* Several shelters in Los Angeles already have savings requirements for employed residents.

* Some private shelters in NYC have savings requirements far more stringent than the ones proposed by the city.

I've worked with social service agencies in my legal practice over the years and in my former role as a city councilor. Asset accumulation is a huge but often overlooked part of moving people out of poverty and into the middle class, or at least some semblance thereof. That's why Bill Clinton pushed for Individual Development Account initiatives during his presidency.

[bobbolink]

21. Its demeaning and dismissive.

As was your subject line.

[SoxFan]

25. It's neither

Do some research on poverty policy and spend some time working with people living on the margins. They don't need pity any more than they need disdain. They need respect and help in making themselves self-sufficient. Giving the working homeless some focus and getting them to look at things like security deposits and functioning cars isn't disrespectful; it's realistic.

[Donnachaidh]

38. yeah, Bobbolink as a HOMELESS ADVOCATE knows nothing about demeaning laws from elites

She 's probably forgotten more about the problems and harrassment of the poor than you will EVER know. She's on the ground dealing with it - not pontificating from a highrise office building.

:rofl:

[bobbolink]

58. "spend some time working with people living on the margins"

Bwahahahahahahaha!!!

[Raineyb]

24. You think they're not saving money because they're too stupid to do so and are pissing

it away on bullshit?

Poor people are well aware of the concept but bills have to be paid. When one doesn't make enough to pay the bills it's impossible to save. You act as though people are too fucking stupid to figure out that saving money helps in the long run.

[SoxFan]

26. Don't patronize me

I've spent more time around the homeless than 98% of the people on DU. My wife used to help manage a shelter that assists homeless families in our city, families that very often came here with little or no English proficiency or cultural acclimatization. I've gone to court with people who live out of the back of a beat up old car. Do NOT patronize me.

The savings requirements are not onerous. They come to less than $40 per month. Yes, it's difficult, but hell, if it means a person and his or her family gets out of a shelter and into a decent home, then it's worth it.

The ideal approach would be to provide an IDA match for each dollar deposited by the shelter resident. The funds could be provided by the local or state government or by a philanthropic foundation. That would magnify the power of the money saved by the shelter residents by anywhere from 50-100%.

[Raineyb]

31. Don't patronize you? I think you have it backwards. The person being patronizing

is you.

Did you read the article? Is there any mention of a match? No there isn't. I suppose that we're supposed to forget that he originally wanted to charge rent for the shelter space and now this is a CYA maneuver most likely because people let him know how disgusting his previous plan was. So you'll excuse me if after knowing how my piece of shit mayor is if I am more than a little suspicious of his motivation and those of Bloomberg's apologists. Having been in a position where I was scrounging to save an extra dollar the idea of someone forcing me to save as though I have no idea how it's done is beyond patronizing. As is YOUR attitude. So if you want to see who is actually doing the patronizing here I would suggest you take a good hard look in the mirror before tossing round that lame ass accusation.

[SoxFan]

33. Question

Ever worked with the poor and homeless?

Ever been in a shelter?

Ever studied anti-poverty policy?

Ever researched housing law?

Ever worked with groups who run IDA programs?

I suspect that you prefer to sit on the computer and feel all nice and morally superior because you are a sooo-sensitive and compassionate progressive.

If you knew anything at all about these issues, you'd understand that asset building is one of the most critical aspects of preventing people from sliding back into homelessness. Sorry if that bursts your sensitive progressive bubble.

[Raineyb]

34. You assume I know nothing.

I actually LIVE in this city. I know how things work here including the difficulty of even trying to put together extra money only to have something come up and you have to dip back into said savings and how difficult is is to come up with the equivalent of 3 months rent in order to procure an apartment.

So your projections mean shit to me. You think you know more than people who actually live in the situation because you read it in book? Because somebody told you how it is? So you feel justified in being oh so superior from where? Unless you have some technology that no one else has you're doing the same thing the rest of us are doing, commenting from a computer.

So get over yourself and save your patronizing bullshit for someone who won't recognize it for what it is. Your assumption that you actually know more than others is clearly based on fantasy and wishful thinking.

[SoxFan]

42. Give it a rest

My wife helped run a homeless shelter for several years, so I'll wager I've met more homeless families than you have. I've talked to them and listened to them. My concern doesn't come from some abstract sense of noblesse oblige, unlike too many DUers.

[Raineyb]

46. You give it a rest.

You're not at wherever it is you pretend to know everything. No one here is obligated to take any orders from you.

And you think you're not patronizing?

Seriously a look in the mirror would be in order on your part.

[Donnachaidh]

40. Cognitive dissonance a learned response at legal school?

unbelievable the guilty lashing out of some. :eyes:

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Donnachaidh]

39. you certainly patronize the homeless pretty darned well -- cognitive dissonance?

You insult a well known homeless advocate and then get pissy and puffy about your *social services contacts*? Pleeze....spare the world your *wisdom on high* BS...

[Raineyb]

47. Thank you.

I was wondering if it was just me who noticed it.

[Chan790]

28. Wagering no...

which does not surprise me. There is a nonspecific segment of DUers who are always going to think they know more than the people working in a field or with a community on any given issue.

It reminds me of the day that someone told me that I knew nothing of the problems faced by low-literate and ESL populations. I was on an outreach and activism team (in addition to my job duties as communications and development coordinator) for a LiteracyUSA member organization at the time. Yeah, clearly I know nothing about the issues facing low-literate, ESL (and homeless, for that matter) populations. :eyes:

[SoxFan]

30. Awesome

The reflexive answers are maddening. I hate it when people immediately fall back on ideological shibboleths instead of trying to honestly examining best practices when it comes to public policy.

Frankly, I'm all for anything that helps get people back on their feet. If this plan helps to do so, then let's do it.

[Lyric]

51. It doesn't help.

$40 a month isn't enough to buy breakfast every day in New York City, much less rent a place to live or buy anything else.

These requirements won't help the homeless. They'll just keep homeless people who either fear the "rules" or who can't adhere to the "rules" out of the shelters, which will in turn provide the idiotic mayor with justification for cutting shelter funding (as use will decrease), and will ultimately end up hurting these vulnerable people.

Shelters are a lifesaving roof of last resort. They should never come with "strings" beyond simple upkeep and safety regulations.

[Donnachaidh]

37. so LA puts demeaning laws together to harrass the homeless, it's OKAY to do it in NY?

:wow:

Talk about elites trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip. I love it how all the people who BENEFIT from this sort of draconian nonsense have no problem with it. Who cares -- it's not effecting THEM, and it's the latest *thing* to gossip about over cocktails -- ain't that right mr. lawyer for social services agencies? :sarcasm:

[Dappleganger]

20. $36 a month?

That won't even cover a stupid cab ride!

[Raineyb]

22. It doesn't even cover a metrocard for the month.

And that's including the monthly pass as well as the fill it up as you go along metrocard.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. Paternalistic, condescending and ineffectual. -nt

[petronius]

27. An interest-bearing no-fee savings account is a great idea, but why does it

have to be a requirement? It wouldn't cost the city any more or less to provide this service as an option to those residents who think it's in their best interest to take advantage of it. Actually, it would probably be easier if it was optional because city employees wouldn't waste time harassing people who failed to make their monthly deposits...

[Chan790]

29. because NY state has a law saying they have to charge this population-segment rent...

and the state keeps dragging the city to court for non-enforcement.

The idea here is that imposed (and it would by-necessity have to be imposed for NY state to buy-in on the proposal) savings is a better solution for everybody than charging them the same amount in rent for a shelter cot. This way they're gaining something (a small savings) rather than losing something (some portion of their meager incomes to an idiotic rent requirement.)

[Raineyb]

32. Bloomberg could lobby the state legislature

He had no qualms about doing this when it came to him taking control of the schools. It's called priorities. His are having control not necessarily helping anyone.

36 bucks a month when banks are charging what 10 bucks a month in fees. That sounds perfectly reasonable. Not!

[tmyers09]

45. Maybe we should figure out WHY the 20% of homeless who have jobs ARE homeless!

That is most telling to me. Why is housing so fucking expensive that people with incomes can't afford it, and why there is such a lack of affordable housing?

[Raineyb]

48. NYC has had issues with housing for years and Albany won't let the city

control it's housing policy. In addition, we've had mayors who allow the rent guidelines board jack up rates despite anything that actually goes on in the marketplace. Most places want you to have 3 months rent to get into an apartment. First and last plus a security which could be quite expensive when you're talking about apartments that go for over 1000 a month. And these are not luxury apartments they're one bedroom apartments. A studio will run you about 700 or so a month. Of course I'm talking about places like parts of Brooklyn and Queens. Naturally Manhattan is a great deal more expensive as are parts of Brooklyn that are close to bridges which take you into Manhattan. In addition, because people are being pushed out of their neighborhoods in Manhattan are moving onto areas of Brooklyn, pushing the rents up and squeezing out people who were living in the neighborhood when it was considered less desirable. Then of course there are the "market" rate apartments which could be a great deal more expensive. Those that aren't are often apartments in people's private homes which is basically a month to month deal that puts you at the mercy of the landlord. Some of these apartments are illegal basement apartments and they're not cheap either. Unless you live in the projects I really don't see how anyone working a minimum wage job can afford to have an apartment AND eat especially if they are a family with children which makes a roommate situation less feasible than a single person. (Which frankly is not an ideal situation either and probably not one you'd want to get into in a 1 bedroom apartment)

Then we have the banks. There are many neighborhoods that are not well served by banks as they don't like those neighborhoods but the parasitic check cashing places are all over the place. Most banks charge rather large fees to have an account if you don't have the minimum balance which on the low end is 500 bucks. This means that's 500 bucks that you can't access or you'll be paying fees every month until you get it back up there. There are credit unions but they are not easy to find and are not plentiful to use. It took me quite a while to find a credit union that I could join that didn't depend on me working at a certain location or for a certain company. I've had to search to find ATM's that take my credit union's card. I still don't have a debit card that I can use to buy things. It's a 6 month wait if they like your history.

There are units being built but the number of units that are actually affordable to people who don't make 6 figure salaries are not as plentiful. They're building condos right down the block from where I am. I'm in a shitty apartment building. They want over 300,000 for some of the units and that's on the low end. It's not like the apartments are huge and have spacious balconies for the owners either. You can always tell newer construction around the city because the newer construction is always smaller than the surrounding buildings and pricey as hell for the lesser square footage.

NY has a very powerful landlord lobby who have been trying to get rid of any regulation on rents and they've been chipping away at it for years. Our current mayor isn't all that interested in making sure the city remains affordable for people who have to work for a living. If things don't change the city will end up an enclave for the wealthy where the people who do the work have to commute from outside the city because they can't afford to live in the city anymore. Unfortunately, I don't expect anything to improve with a mayor who will ship people out of the city (and country even) if they promise not to come back.

[joeybee12]

52. How stupid...how about a volunteer program that HELPS them save...

it would be cheapr in the ong run because they probably would save and no one would be needed to moitor it...God, is everyone in Bloomberg's administration a moran?

[JVS]

53. Always the stick with some people, never the carrot.

[Odin2005]

55. Paternalistic crap!

[burnsei sensei]

57. Where is the authority of the

homeless advocacy groups in this?
They are the people who are closest to the problem.
Their ideas should be the first considered.