So BP is evil, greedy, arrogant and irresponsible, but WE are to blame?

[happy_liberal]

Anyone else getting tired of the 'this is all our fault' argument about the oil spill?

BP should have purchase one $500,000 part to prevent this emergency....but this is our fault.

BP makes record profits, taking oil off of our treasured shorelines....do we get part of that profit? Do we make the decisions?

No! Then we don't get the blame.


(The only thing we are to blame for is allowing Halliburton to do anything important anymore after their record, allowing any of Bush/Cheney policies to remain after they stole office for 8 years, selling our resources to multinationals as if we are some naive third world country that hasn't seen this type of evil and greed before, and allowing Big Oil to buy and burn plans for alternative energy.)

But as for BP....they are irresponsible and completly to blame for this catastrophe.

[Scuba]

1. Blame the victim.....

Besides politicking for better government and regulations, what do you think those of us who burn gas should be doing?

Moving near where we work? Unfortunately, the current employment culture in America means you'll likely be in a new job every few years. Are we supposed to move every time?

Bicycle to work? Same problem. Many of us commute thousands of miles to work, not because we want to, but because we have to. At one poing in my career I had to fly 1,200 miles back and forth each week for two years, consuming vast quantities of jet fuel that wouldn't have been used had my seat on the plane been empty, like the one next to me sometimes was.

Change careers? Pretty hard to do without burning down everything you've worked for and starting over.

Change lifestyle? Do we live better than the average European? Some of us, a little, in terms of home and PERHAPS fuel-consumption history. But the graphs showing how Amerians use more than their fair share of fuels don't show splits between military, corporate and private gasoline consumption. (Can anyone provide this breakdown? Thanks.) I suspect the average consumer may look pretty innocent with that data at hand.

Retire? Hah. I'm not in the top 20% of Americans who own 93% of American wealth. Like most of us, I have just been scraping by, saving for retirement, and then seeing it vanish when the casino my 401K's played in turned out to be fixed.

Meanwhile, note this taken from http://www.observer.com/2009/o2/yacht-update regarding Paul Allen's fishing boat. "The yacht, which houses a crew of 60, two helicopters, seven boats, a submarine, and a remote controlled vehicle that crawls the ocean floor, costs the billionaire $20 million a year (or $384,000 a week) to keep up. Maybe he can cut his fuel consumption. Maybe he could scrape by with just one of his two helicoptors.


Anyway, I want to help. Please suggest some alternatives on how I can change the world by not buying $30 bucks worth of gas a week. Thanks

[blue sky at night]

2. heres a simple thing...

eat less meat. or none at all.

[Scuba]

5. Hard to eat less, as I can't afford much...

... but it's one way to reduce carbon-fuels, so thanks.

Still, I don't agree that those of us who consume are to blame. To paraphrase another DU'er, you don't blame the drunk college girl for getting raped.

[happy_liberal]

13. haven't eaten meat for 20+ years

changed my light bulbs to flourescent and LED, don't recycle anymore because I buy nothing that even needs to be recycled....reduce is my lifestyle. Drive my car as little as possible, grow organic etc....but NOTHING I have done or ever will do can make any real impact as long as the multinationals continue to pollute and ruin what is left of our natural world, clean air, clean water...everything is on the line if there is a buck to be made.

[Better Believe It]

47. So why do you insist on driving a car rather than ride a bicycle or walk?

If you'd stop doing that the environment would be wonderful!

:)

[happy_liberal]

57. lol

I do haul my groceries 20 miles on horseback- and the horse grazes, no oil powered farm machinery cut hay....geez what kind of hypocrite do you think I am?!

[Missy Vixen]

34. I've got an even better one

Don't have kids.

If you're serious about saving the earth, the carbon footprint of one or more children in the home is staggering, not to mention the use of resources.

[Zavulon]

42. Here's a simple thing...

...live your life the way you want, and refrain from lecturing others on how to live theirs.

[William Z. Foster]

44. why?

Telling people they need to change their personal choices, and suggesting that this is the way to effect social change - many actually say that it is the only way!! - is simply another way of blaming the working class people for the predatory and destructive behavior of the few.

An increasing number of people do not have the luxury of indulging in forms of self-expression such as this, masquerading as political action, and self-expression and personal lifestyle choices will never be a substitute for mass organizing for effecting social change.

Meat is relatively inexpensive, because there was a time not so long ago when a large number of people were protein deprived. The government stepped in the rectify that. As Democrats, I would think we all support that.

A shocking number of people in this country are now struggling to eat at all, and it may get much worse soon. Lecturing them about what they should eat reflects some sort of gentrified and aristocratic thinking.

[happy_liberal]

53. Divide and Conquer- they want us to point the finger at each other

While we are arguing over who is to blame for our tiny 1% of the pollution and how we can change ourselves and lifestyles to save 1/2 of 1% of the pollution we are causing....the CORPORATIONS ARE CAUSING 99% of the damage......and laughing their asses off at us blaming each other.

While we are busy nitpicking at other Americans they corporations are getting away with murder...literally...

[nashville_brook]

3. in calculating your carbon footprint, one of the biggest line items is air travel.

as a big airplane wuss, and too poor to indulge in travel-leisure, i'm free of this burden. meat eating is another giant line item. we eat hardly any meat...still, it's enough to impact the calculation significantly.

google "carbon footprint calculator" and take on the tests -- it's pretty eye-opening.

the other thing is to fight for public transportation in your area. thankfully, where i live now, we're embarking on a big new rail system. the problem here is congestion -- we don't have the infrastructure to get people to work efficiently along the road system. it's a farking mess, as anyone who lives on the Central Florida I-4 corridor will tell you.

a trend that's appearing in my line of work...i do marking for large commercial real estate company...is that in downsizing their real estate holdings more and more companies are looking to telecommuting options so that they don't have to lease so much office space. the impact on the bottom line is mind-blowing -- you wouldn't believe how much money is spent of office space. it's grotesque.

[Scuba]

6. I live in a town of 700 people. I'm not expecting public transportation anytime soon.

[jwirr]

21. Our small communities here in NE MN have large vans that shuttle

people where they need to go. It is worth it. We started this because many people were going into nursing homes because they did not have transportation to live at home. Started as senior buses, then added the disabled and then opened them up to the whole community. It is especially beautiful in the winter when driving is a bitch.

[Scuba]

38. Smart. I'll bet Michelle Bachman came up with that. Not !!!

[jwirr]

40. The idiot has nothing to do with our part of the state - thank God.

[krabigirl]

7. I agree about plane travel ro

I've pretty much stopped, except this year we have to fly overseas so the in-laws can see their grandkids..they are getting too old to fly. :(

I ALWAYS vote for public transport, but it never goes anywhere in my area (I live in Orange County, CA...car worship here to the extreme. However, we really, really need better public transport around here. :( )

[spinbaby]

35. I did that

Our household generates 100 tons of carbon a year, largely because we have three vehicles and fly a lot. I'd rather take the train, but there isn't one.

[happy_liberal]

8. I hear ya and there is nothing we can do as long as the big polluters continue

It's just like Al Gore telling us to change a light bulb. No amount of changing light bulbs will do anything until we stop the industries causing 99% of the problem.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change our lifestyles, but that is just a stupid diversion from going after the real problem.

[leftstreet]

36. OMG That thing is sWeEt !

Unfuckingbelievable

[dipsydoodle]

4. Its only your fault

because you provided no legal obligation for one to be used and they took advantage of that fact as is the case with all other rigs in the Gulf.

[AllentownJake]

9. I like driving my car

However I'm responsible because one of the components of driving the car is not being pulled from the ground responsibly.

Yes it is retarded logic.

BP would have saved money by doing this safely. Anyone who says differently is stupid. They chose a marginal gain with a huge risk upside and are going to pay out the ass for it. That isn't my fault.

[happy_liberal]

22. retarded logic-nice terminology

Is that what DU has been reduced to?

Or has BP hired a new army of bloggers?

[AllentownJake]

28. I advocate the corporate death penalty for this organization

and I'm not extreme enough for some of you...you are losing it.

[happy_liberal]

43. oh I'm with ya

:applause:

but I admit BP is making me lose it :grr:

[chrisa]

10. Here's what we have so far:

"It's the American peoples' fault."

"Oil is natural, and won't hurt the environment."

"The oil dispersant is completely safe!"

"God, these fishermen's families are such whiners!"

"Attacking BP is UnAmerican!"

"Obama did it!"

"BP has all of the tools and knowledge to clean up this mess. The government should not be involved, or regulate the cleanup one bit!"

Anyone have any others?

[Scuba]

11. It's Lynddie England's fault

[Hannah Bell]

30. good example. the girl raised in a trailer guided us policy in iraq.

what a farce.

[Scuba]

39. That poor girl was made a scapegoat while...

No Lt's, Capt's, Majors, Colonels or Generals were punished. The Secretary of Defense got off scott free. The CIC got off scott free.

Lynddie England got shafted.

[havocmom]

12. And, isn't that oil destined for other places anyway?

Read around DU recently that BP supplies the military? Did I get that right?

So, it's cheney AGAIN, starting pointless wars so his buds/real bosses can sell arms, fuel, contracted services.

Sorry, cheney is NOT my fault. Or any other regular Americans' fault. He was not elected by us, he rode in on a sidecar in a detoured election. He is a product OF the likes of BP.

[happy_liberal]

16. "Sorry, cheney is NOT my fault"

Cheney is the real mastermind behind many of the evils going on. I have come to believe he is the devil incarnate, because it is no longer about money, he lives to see other people suffer.


I think that considering Halliburton caused the problem with their cementing(after Cheney removed regulations to enable the accident), and Halliburton's new "boots and coots' is cleaning it up....they(Cheney) might have even more responsibility than BP. We cannot change the course of this nation, or the earth....without locking that bastard up. YESTERDAY!! WE have a long growing list of war crimes, don't we have one altruistic lawyer that can go after that guy?!

[Karenina]

32. Hi Mom! I passed by a claim that 80% of MIC's petrol is contracted to BP.

Be looking to the yung'uns to pick it up and run with it.

We had huge hockey action a coupla weeks ago. The place was crawling with Finns! Lotsa fun they were. May be inappropriate to say so while the US dogma (Kick Their Ass, Take Their Gas... DRILL, BABY, DRILL) has been run over by its karma (KKKORPORATE KKKONTROL)...

[TomCADem]

14. The U.S. Is By Far The Largest Consumer Of Fossil Fuels, But We Aren't Too Blame

Why should I try to purchase local produce, drive more fuel efficient cars, or support alternative fuels. Its not my fault damn it!

<>

[happy_liberal]

17. but that is not why BP just made a huge mess in the ocean

They make record profits almost every quarter, they can afford $500,000 for a safety switch.

Here's a question for you....

Suppose GE starts producing windmills like crazy...wonderful....but then to save a little money they remove the bolts that stop the blades from flying off. Blades start flying off and killing people...whose fault is it?

[TomCADem]

46. You Assume The Technology Exists To Stop Deepwater Oil Spills...

In your example, it is a simple matter of tightening the bolt. In sharp contrast, as we are discovering, there is no easy answer to stop the oil spill. Perhaps we really do need to reduce our reliance on oil, because we have no way to stop the leak when a leak occurs.

Finally, would we be in this mess if there was not such a huge demand on oil? The public supported offshore oil drilling by 70 percent. Any effort at regulation was blamed for the increase in gas prices.

The American people demand their cheap gas! And, they also are increasingly skeptical of climate change and the need to develop alternative energy sources.

We need individual responsibility for our collective well being. The BP oil spill is not the first oil related catastrophe, just the worse.

Do you doubt that in a decade or so, when gas prices start to rise, that people will put more stock once again on oil exploration, rather than environmental safety?

You will get the Republicans once again singing the praises of small government and deregulation, and we will be back where we started.

[Catherina]

15. Nope. Not tired at all. We can't have it all. It gets no simpler than that

No. We Can't Have It All

BP doesn't exist in a vaccuum.

[happy_liberal]

20. I understand the big picture

I moved to the largest state in the union to live in balance and I do what I can...but the point is there is nothing I can do when these bastards can cause a disaster this immense in just moments because of their greedy incompetence.

[Catherina]

23. They need to be stopped by all means.

Frankly, I want their officers in prison and their shareholders sued while we seize their assets.

[happy_liberal]

27. on this we agree!!

:applause:

And Cheney too!

[Vinca]

18. The only segment of "we" that is to blame is the Congress.

They allowed big oil, big insurance and big banks to run their operations like the greedy pigs they are and never even pretended to regulate them post-Clinton.

[Chulanowa]

19. Absolutely!

How fucking dare you not be a vegan who eats only what you grow yourself and never travels more than ten miles from the off-the-grid house you carved out of deadfall with your bare hands? I mean fucking CHRIST, man!

be more like these right-minded progressives who are accessing the internet through only the power of their enlightened minds and crystal arrays!

[happy_liberal]

25. Even if I did all those things, it would still be my fault.

:rofl: according to the BP blogger army

[jp11]

24. The only 500k part I've heard about is the acoustic device which would not have stopped this from

what has been reported. MIGHT it have stopped this, who knows but it wasn't guaranteed to do so, I'd rather have the technology be inspected, as it wasn't, over feeling good about them buying more technology no one was making sure was maintained properly or being used the right way.

acoustic switch
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704423504575212031417936798.html

Blowout preventer problems
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37107033/ns/us_news-gulf_oil_spill/

[happy_liberal]

26. "acoustic device which would not have stopped this from what has been reported"

Is that what they are reporting now?

I wonder who would have an interest in reporting that explains that BPs incompetence and greed are not at fault in this disaster...

[Hannah Bell]

29. yes, very tired of that "argument". which is in fact the standard winger argument:

consumer "choice" rules everything with its magic hand, organized political & economic formations are mere servants of the general will.

such bullshit.

[Edweird]

31. It seems a lot of RW positions are suddenly in vogue....

[Individualist]

37. They've always been in vogue with DLC.

[robdogbucky]

33. Onward, to the Arctic!

Now that our lovely representative democratic system of bribes has destroyed two middle east countries, without so much as a whimper of protest from our elected leaders, and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians (I count indigenous rebels religious or otherwise as civiians defending homeland against foreign invaders), no doubt making our favorite client state in the region happy, and further killing off the Gulf of Mexico, creating more disaster capitalism for the bad guys, it is onward to the Gulf of Alaska and the Arctic!

All for oil.


Drill, Baby, Drill!


Who's with me?:sarcasm:



rdb

[laughingliberal]

41. K & R nt

[MellowDem]

45. It's trying to get to the root of the problem....

Lots of people like to just dumb down these things to "BP BAD". But how do we stop this from ever happening again? What led to this? These are the questions to ask, and the answer is that "we" let it happen by voting in a government that bows down to corporations. Of course, don't take it personally, but if voters just think that BP is only to blame, then they're missing the point that their votes matter and have real impacts. For those who vote Republican, just saying "well, BP is just a bad company" is the easy way out. The thing they need to look at is how their ideology allows bad companies to get away with this stuff or cut corners etc.

[Greyhound]

51. For generations they have terrified the sheeple with horror stories of

death and deprivation if they weren't allowed to plunder the earth and subjugate the "them" du jour, usually brown people. People believe whatever they are told often enough by "authorities", no matter how ridiculous or farfetched.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Except Peak Oil and global wather change are real

and if anybody has been fighting both are the oil companies.

Oy.

[Orsino]

48. Yes.

While we slept, our petroleum economy unregulated itself, giving us plenty (usually) of the precious juice so that we wouldn't notice the inevitability of an accident like the Gulf spill.

[Greyhound]

49. K&R. Accurate summary.

[datasuspect]

50. BP won't lose money from this debacle.

the oil is just sitting there.

oil separates from water fairly easily.

there's profit in this somewhere.

[Starry Messenger]

52. It's the magical "free market" argument.

Obviously since we have this wonderful "free market" that provides us with "choices" then our picking those "choices" makes *us* the bad people. It ignores a great deal of reality, but then most "free market" arguments usually do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. You are as guilty as a citizen right before the

bronze age collapse, or the Maya Collapse. You have to live within the system created by others. That does not mean that RECOGNIZING the extent of this system and your infinitesimal role in it is not part of it. By the way, this is not about BP... this is about our collective dependence on oil.

Yes you and I use it every day, from morning to night, and the FIRST step in changing this is recognizing the extent of the problem. If that makes you feel guilty, that is your problem. This is a systems analysis, and to deny how our civilization, no, not Western, GLOBAL, depends on this to function because it makes you feel bad. Well grow the fuck up. Peak oil is going to happen, whether you like that or not, it is already happening. And if we collectively don't wake the fuck up, we may very well FACE A CIVILIZATION COLLAPSE. You think the gulf mess is difficult, you have no idea. While we speak of 3 million ecological refugees in the gulf, a collapse of this oil civilization of ours means what BILLION HUMANS die this year, like in outright starve to death.

And if you cannot handle systems analysis, please tell me ONE thing today that you used, that was never touched by oil... just ONE THING... I don't ask much.

And if you think this is blaming you, well read this again, you need to grow up. This is not about you... but our oil dependent civilization.

[happy_liberal]

56. I get the big picture- but this accident is BP's fault- they are to blame

These people who explain the big picture over and over....duh, thanks captain obvious.


The point is, this particular incident has little to do with the big picture. It wasn't peak oil that had BP leave off important safety features, it was greed. It is currently BPs greed that has them throwing chemical crap on top of it, greed has them choosing liability issues over protecting the cleanup workers, greed that has them leaving oil in tankers to unload for a better price instead of cleaning up their mess.

This incident is about GREED not peak oil. But thanks for the kick....

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Actually this has all to do with the big picture

they are drilling there, because the EASY stuff is gone...

The US hit peak oil in 1973.

Mexico is right now hitting peak oil.

The Arabian Peninsula will hit peak oil, best case scenario in two years.

Cutting corners is part of the big picture, and if you don't get that, well there is nothing we can do to help you.

And if you think I will continue to call those who cannot see the big picture and now be condescending, guess what? I am right now, and will continue to be.

People need to grow the fuck up... because the kimchee has not even started to hit the fan. Oh and THEY WILL CONTINUE to drill in places like the gulf. Hell, this is not the deepest well either... and other places that are increasingly hard to get to. Why? WE DEPEND ON THE STUFF.

Now you and I can do things to reduce our personal consumption, but even if all of us did it, collectively, it woudl be a drop in the proverbial bucket. What needs to happen is not to scream at one dealer for your favorite drug, while we continue to buy form him and the rest... yes like it or not YOU ARE USING black stuff dragged to the surface by BP, don't matter if you stop at their gas station or not. What needs to happen is an INTERNATIONAL GOVERNMENT RESPONSE.

But the first step, and this is a gift in a way, is for people wake the fuck up. And truth be told, we need them, all of them. So if you think anybody is really going to punish BP, in the real world, no it ain't gonna happen... That is the little factoid all the screaming cannot stop... So scream if it makes you feel better, but real change will require REAL sacrifice, the kind I doubt Humans are capable of making anymore.