OMG , the horror , look at those pictures and tell me if our addiction is worth it (GRAPHIC) :

[UndertheOcean]

addiction to meat that is , why should some pictures of animal suffering move you deeply , while others don't faze you .












WHY THE DOUBLE STANDARD !!

[seabeyond]

1. it really is your responsibility to put graphic on you title.... nt

[UndertheOcean]

4. done n/t

[cwydro]

5. Hey, on DU...putting "graphic" on your post

just guarantees you more views...so no worries there.;)

[seabeyond]

10. true that... nt

[seabeyond]

11. thanks. i appreciate posters that do that. then people get the choice. nt

[msongs]

6. not any more graphic than the sanitized corpses in shrink wrap in stores is it? nt

[seabeyond]

12. sure. whatever. nt

[county worker]

2. Because I chose to not eat meat, it wasn't necessary. I don't have that choice with oil.

Why the ignorance?

[cwydro]

3. Horrid. Horrible.

Thank you for posting it though.

[glinda]

7. Downed animals with toxins go into pet foods! I am goin vegan again. That's it!

[skeptical cynic]

8. Reality is reality

The reality of the pictures you posted, plus the fact that the beef, pork and poultry industries create the illusion that meat is affordable because the industry feeds huge amounts of subsidized corn, is why we don't eat those things.

The reality that fisheries are being exploited to and beyond their limits, and that they are managed politically rather than scientifically, is why we don't eat fish.

The reality is also that the price of oil isn't only what we pay per gallon or per mile, but includes damaged environments and what we spend to occupy countries with oil reserves, keep troops in oil rich regions to protect "vital national interests," and to pay the long-term cost of the altered lives of the predominantly poor who make up our military.

[unpossibles]

14. don't forget water subsidies!

A LOT of water is used for feedlots, and most of it is paid via taxes, not by the corporations selling/operating them.

[skeptical cynic]

20. Until we pay the real costs of our lifestyle

It will remain unsustainable.

[flvegan]

9. Why the double standard? Simple.

Selfishness. Some animals taste good, so they matter much less. The palate can be a huge roadblock to empathy.

I'd put up my Defensive Omnivore Bingo card again, but it's just about worn out from the last couple days.

[Zynx]

13. I've always said you shouldn't eat meat if you wouldn't be willing to kill the animal yourself.

I am willing and I have.

[proteus_lives]

15. Ditto.

[amborin]

16. echoes of Upton Sinclair; and we're killing the environment at the same time

[Kalyke]

17. I can say this without hestitation: I no longer eat meat.

I have a hernia caused from being a tiny woman giving birth to large children. That has cause me great digestive problems. First, I gave up starch - I can only eat whole grain bread. Pasta and rice make me ill.

As recently as last week, I gave up meat (save shellfish, which, thanks to Broken Pipeline (BP), I won't be able to eat, either) when I tried to eat a hamburger and make said hernia WORSE by puking up the painfully four nibbles I had of the damn thing. I haven't been able to eat pork in 20 years. I doubt I'll ever eat any meat other than shellfish again.

So... there you go. The Smith's "Meat is Murder" finally gut-punched me - quite literally.

[Ramulux]

18. You have to think of it like this

If we just stopped breeding animals to eat, there would be wide spread starvation all over the world. I am not saying that it would be impossible to wean us off meat eventually, but it would require a globally coordinated effort by every modern nation on earth and that isn't going to be happening any time soon.

I also believe there to be a real difference between killing animals that are basically genetically engineered to the point they are not even aware of their surroundings and animals that live in the wild. I dont necessarily see the problem with engineering animals so that they are fatter and give more meat, effectively making more food and allowing that food to be sold at lower prices.

You cannot think of animals that are basically grown in a warehouse as actual "living" animals you have to look at them as walking science experiments which will provide us all with cheap food. Its a fucked up situation no matter how you look at it, you just have to keep in mind that we are not herbivores and we require certain nutrients which cannot be gained through plants and some of the meat substitutes are expensive to manufacture and make widely available.

[Truth2Tell]

19. "You cannot think of animals that are basically grown in a warehouse as actual "living" animals"

Really? I can't? Are they not "actually" living?

If we don't think of Iraqis as "actually" human, then can we kill them?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

36. wrong reply... self delete (n/t)

[unpossibles]

21. but that's the rub - meat is not a cheap food

it requires a lot more land and water than vegetable matter does. It seems cheap now because of a lot of government subsidies make it so. And yes, I get that some land is more suitable to grazing than to crop raising, but that doesn't change the argument, especially since most meat comes from feedlots.

I stopped eating meat twenty years ago for a few reasons, but mainly because I could not afford it, so I largely disagree with the excuse that it's too expensive to be a vegetarian. That said, I don't eat much of the processed veggie burger stuff at all; I like to cook, and simple ingredients are generally pretty cheap all around. Many "meat substitutes" actually are extremely cheap - in this I include beans, tofu, and seiten which is wheat flour and very simple to make. The high cost of some of those items in the store is more of a demand issue than actual cost.

Finally, your rather callus write off of feedlot animals as not being actual "living" animals is nothing but bad rationalization. I have no problem with the idea of us being omnivorous creatures, but in the twenty years of my vegetarianism, I have been a lot more healthy than the first twenty years of eating meat, and this is backed up by check ups. The nutrients you mention vegetarian diets lacking are some of the B vitamins which actually are from bacterial sources, but tend to concentrate in animal products. Iron, protein, etc. are not a problem with a balanced diet, and the same or worse nutritional deficiencies can be found in people with poor meat-heavy diets as well.

Don't lie to yourself about what you are eating. Eat meat if you choose to, but be honest about it. Fwiw, I would agree with your statement if you had described actual lab-grown sheet meat, which is a lot more ethical way of making meat.

[Ramulux]

33. Probably should have been more clear

Listen, I am practically a vegetarian so I am not trying to bash vegetarianism or make it seem like its impossible to be healthy while living that lifestyle.

I am looking at this realistically and practically, in terms of the fact that such a huge amount of the food eaten on this planet, comes from an animal of some kind. Sure, here in America where we have huge amounts of selection at our markets and easily available meat substitutes, if you make a decent amount of money you can very easily practice vegetarianism. But we are not the rest of this world. There are entire populations which rely entirely on animal husbandry in one form or another in order to have their economy function. My main point is that we live in a meat-centric world and as I said in my earlier post, it would take global coordination from every modernized country in order to wean people off meat and even then people would lose their shit if their government was telling them they cant eat meat. So its not that I dislike vegetarianism, its that it is not physically possible for every in the world to be a vegetarian without a global consensus on the positive benefits of being a vegetarian.

I also was not attempting to lie to myself when I make the distinction between farm animals and genetically engineered mentally retarded animals grown in a warehouse. The situation sucks as long as the animals are being killed, I get that, I agree with that, I simply see a real ethical difference between these animals. I would rather animals who's minds dont function correctly and have been created to produce the most meat be killed rather than animals who have actually been outside and experienced life and can form bonds with the other cattle. As for the lab-grown sheet meat, that's a really cool idea I had never heard of and if it can become an economically viable practice I definitely support that over anything else.

[flvegan]

30. "we require certain nutrients which cannot be gained through plants"

Shit, I must be dead then.

:eyes:

[superduperfarleft]

31. "we require certain nutrients which cannot be gained through plants." Patently untrue.

[northernlights]

51. um, those "not actually living animals" suffer as much as the living ones

unfuckingreal.

[Evasporque]

22. Lets put "agri buisness" put it into perspective....

We have to eat...something. Most of what we eat is

Dump the chemicals on the earth...





Turn the Prairie into cultivated land...make animals extinct...

[unpossibles]

23. "Turn the Prairie into cultivated land...make animals extinct..."

not sure what you mean by either statement. I assume you're saying that we'd need to have more cropland for a vegetable-based diet and that if we stop raising animals for food then they will go extinct.

For the first point, do you know many pounds of corn it takes to make a pound of beef, not to mention how much extra water?
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/aug97/livestock.hrs.html

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/top_of_the_food_chain.php

Furthermore, much of the cropland you seem to be complaining about goes into feed production.

As to the other point, you're arguing that animals which were essentially "created" by us through many generations of breeding will go extinct if we stop eating them, correct?

[TZ]

24. Why is this acceptable to you while posting pictures of aborted fetuses is not?

I personally think emotional manipulation is a disgusting tactic whether its done by vegatarians or anti-choice idiots. :thumbsdown:

[UndertheOcean]

26. or anti-drilling idiots ? or are you not willing to include those

[TZ]

27. Any emotional blackmail is wrong.

Seriously, as soon as I saw your post I thought of the people who insist on posting fetal pictures. Do you not see there is no difference?
Also these tactics are why many people who are not vegetarian, become resentful of vegans/vegetarians...Nobody likes to be bullied.

[superduperfarleft]

28. Why do these pictures bother you?

After all, as one poster above put it, these aren't living sentient creatures, they're just food.

[Hempathy]

25. Steak is YUMMY. We're having porterhouse tonite.

On the grill- nice thick cuts, too.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

[JanMichael]

35. and you will be ingesting a bad death and suffering. How could you

not care more about your own body at the very least?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

37. Evidently, "bad death and suffering" is ****ing delicious.

Goes best some nice ajus and grilled asperigus.
Medium rare with a little char. MMmmm

[Cetacea]

46. .

lol

[cali]

39. I won't..

I don't eat much beef but when I do, it's local grassfed. I know the farmer who raises the animals and I know they are killed well. I'm not raising my own chickens but I have done. I don't eat meat or chicken more than once or twice a week, but it's all local.

[Hempathy]

44. "ingesting a bad death and suffering"...? Oh, Brother....

I don't know whether to :eyes: or :rofl:

Probably lots of both would be best.

[Cetacea]

45. wow.

If that is what pot does to your empathy, I hope it stays illegal.

[Hempathy]

47. Empathy is best reserved for fellow human beings, not entrees.

Here's one for you, too: :eyes:

[JanMichael]

48. Might as well eat people too. Ever eat a dog too?

Good luck and good digesting.

[flvegan]

54. Some posters...just aren't worth it.

[JanMichael]

57. Oh I know. I should add though that you are a hell of a lot more persistant than I am.

You typically show up with artillery blazing regarding posts that show a total insensitivity to other living things which I (and Stephanie) appreciate.

[flvegan]

60. You should have seen

the responses I deleted before hitting the "Post message" button. Then I went this route. See how I did that? Not a single DU rule broken.

:rofl:

[Hempathy]

61. wow. you're the first cannibal i've come across.

But no, thanks- I wouldn't be interested in eating a dog.
Tell me- what do they taste like? (dogs, not people)

[JanMichael]

62. Only you would know. Eat on.

Got the munchies now? Puff puff bong bong meat eat?

[flvegan]

63. Stupid.

Thanks for kicking the thread though.

[Cetacea]

55. Which would include humans posting here.

Considering what's going on in the gulf...I think your pot is laced with PCP. Seriously.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. Yup.

[dionysus]

32. nothing like a good cut of beef, i say.

[msanthrope]

53. Damn, now I'm hungry....n/t

[Whisp]

34. we are like the old rednecks that thought black people weren't really human

didn't feel the things we did like us. were different so it was okay to mistreat them, they were closer to animals than people.

we will pay for this one day, what we do to our animals, in the name of factory farming SAW 16.

We will learn what they thought of us and how we treated them.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

38. There are two things I feel like I just can't live without:

#1) **** (I don't have a flamesuit strong enough to withstand DU's reaction if I disclosed my 1st wish)
#2) Researchers to irrevocably discover that plants can feel pain (and observing vegan heads asploding).

[flvegan]

40. The irony of your posts

compared to your sigline pic is what's really delicious.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

41. I know, right?

Although it's only irony if you assume my pictures exist as a form of protest or outrage.

If people see these terrible images enough, perhaps they become desensitized.
Just a little homebrew social experimenting. :)

[flvegan]

43. I could only assume that a member of this site would do so as protest or outrage.

But then you really kind of had to answer that way, didn't you. I mean considering.

[Dont TS Me Brah]

42. deleted...

nt

[Nye Bevan]

49. Now I have a steak craving.

Mortons is beckoning for dinner tomorrow.

[tjwash]

50. Damn those are good looking ribs.

About 12 hours in the smoker, and top it off with a little home made plum BBQ sauce :thumbsup:

[uppityperson]

52. I raise, kill, eat my own chickens. Eat local beef I know. Also grow, kill, eat my own

vegetables. Reason being is factory farms are nasty evil places.

[craigmatic]

56. I'm glad I've been a vegitarian for a decade and a half nt

[-..__...]

58. This thread needs more...

BAAAAACON!



Yep... it's worth it.

:9

[flvegan]

59. Your response speaks (not) highly of you.

And if someone needs bacon to draw partners to their tits, there's probably a LOT missing in regards to them and the rest of her.

Just saying.