Breaking on GEM$NBC - Helen Thomas is retiring

[malaise]

Why these fucking right wing hacks always win I will never understand.

Love you Helen.

[Statistical]

1. Good. bigotry is bigotry.

Having a rational debate on Israel is one thing, telling the Jews to go home to Germany is another.

[Ian David]

5. Agreed. I'll miss the saner, more rational Helen Thomas that I once sent flowers to. n/t

[Raineyb]

42. And yet Pat Buchanan whose past is a million times uglier than

Ms. Thomas' remains on the air to spew.

So I guess only people who are accused of being bigoted toward certain people lose their jobs. Attacking black and brown people keeps you on the air.

[Statistical]

45. It is a sad double standard and Pat should be off the air.

Still one bigot doesn't make another bigot any better.

Wrong is wrong. I would say the exact same thing if Asshat Pat lost his job too.

[Raineyb]

50. Yeah that's what they always say when they tell black and brown people

that they just can't get around to addressing their concerns.

I'm really quite tired of hearing it. It means shit at this point.

[backscatter712]

61. Sorry, saying one stupid thing does not undo a lifetime of good.

I can forgive her for saying something stupid on one occasion. Pity you cannot. She does not have a pattern in the way that Glenn Beck and Pat Buchanan do...

[AnArmyVeteran]

89. I agree with you backscatter712... It's sad to see so many piling on her.

She was the only person on the exclusive White House Press Corp who actually asked any tough questions. If their were more Helens to ask Bush tough questions we wouldn't be at war right now. I find it amazingly hypocritical of people who seem to like to pile on a person if they make one mistake in a 50 year career. I guess everyone else is perfect and have never said anything stupid or ridiculous or even said words that hurt other people's feelings.

Like you said, all those right wingers in the media talk about killing the speaker of the house, calling everyone Nazis and the rest of their insanity are still on the air. They make a living by spewing out hatred, but god forbid one decent person like Helen make a blunder at 89 and then they crucify her. It all sounds a bit right wing to me.

[DeschutesRiver]

74. Agree.

I don't give a rat's patootie how many people worship something Helen Thomas was in the past - her present persona of mimicking a teabagger who doesn't like something isn't a rational approach.

She is now free to find an appropriate venue from which to tell jews to head on back to the Fatherland.

[gateley]

2. This makes me so sad. Farewell to a golden era. nt

[malaise]

4. Sad is an understatement

First amendment freedoms only apply to Obama haters and RW hacks.

corrected

[Ian David]

8. Someone took away Helen Thomas' guns??? n/t

[Ian David]

3. She's resigning to spend more time hating Jews with her family. n/t

[Individualist]

9. Fuck DLC!

[AngryAmish]

15. Well done, sir. Perfect.

[uppityperson]

20. Can you criticize an administration, yet support the people?

Guess that is no for you since that is what she did.

[Ian David]

25. That's not what she did. She told the Jews to go "home" to Germany.

Big difference.

[uppityperson]

36. Here is what she said. I'd like to see a longer vid since all I can find is >1 min

I hear this as criticizing Israel, not Jews.
--------------------------

"Any comments on Israel?"

HT "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine.
Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not Germany, not Poland."

"so where should they go?"

HT "Home. Poland. Germany. America. And everywhere else.

[Ian David]

49. What if she had said The Irish should leave America and go back to Ireland? n/t

[uppityperson]

51. Are the Irish occupying America? What if she said USA should stop occupying Iraq and go back to USA?

[Ian David]

54. She didn't say they should stop occupying Gaza or The West Bank... she said they should leave ISRAEL

And go "home" to Germany.

[uppityperson]

56. No, she didn't. She said they should leave Palestine. Quit picking bits out of what she said.

"Any comments on Israel?"

HT "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine.
Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not Germany, not Poland."

"so where should they go?"

HT "Home. Poland. Germany. America. And everywhere else.

[Ian David]

59. "Home" is Israel. n/t

[malaise]

85. I thought home was where you were born n/t

[Statistical]

90. Two generations have been born in Israel. n/t

[Ian David]

98. Jews have been being born in Israel for several thousand years.

And that's based on archeology, not the faerie tales in the "bible."

[malaise]

101. and Palestinians? n/t

[Ian David]

102. Sure, for the past few hundred years of the diaspora, at least. n/t

[Raineyb]

57. And what of the people who were living on the land where Israel is now

who were forcibly removed from their homes?

Hard to sympathize when a country is based on stealing land from one group of people by the UN to give it to another group to assuage their guilt at having not done anything to help them.

Especially when said country is committing human rights abuses on a daily basis.

[Statistical]

60. Two state solution is the only ethical solution.

Advocating the Jews just go back to Germany (maybe there is some available land at Auschwitz) is no more ethical than telling Palestinians they need to go to Eqypt or Jordon.

A single state solution that consist of only Israel is wrong.
A single state solution that consist of only Palestinian is wrong.

Pretty simple concept.

Her advocates making Jews return to Germany to give all territory to the Palestinians is bigotry.
If someone said the Palestinians just need to get over it and live as refugees in Egypt would you condone that.
If not then it is a double standard.

[Raineyb]

70. There's not a damn thing ethical about what's going on down there at the moment. n/t

[Statistical]

72. Never said there was. We don't have a two state solution.

However sending all the Jews back to the country where they faced genocide and putting a happy "home" title on it isn't a solution either.

Can you see/accept that?

[malaise]

103. +1,000

I want off of this planet

[Statistical]

55. Israel is a legitimate state. Accept it. n/t

[Barack_America]

97. If she had said the British in N. Ireland should go back to Britain, I'd agree with her...

...even though I know it's impractical and wrong given how many generations of British in N. Ireland know it as their home.

But on a gut and emotional level, oh hell yeah, I'd agree. And, if you caught me at a bad moment when my emotions were running high, might you catch me saying such a thing myself? Yes, yes you would.

[Statistical]

32. That is not what she did at all. n/t

[uppityperson]

41. Here is what she said, I see her criticizing Israel, not Jews.

"Any comments on Israel?"

HT "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine.
Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not Germany, not Poland."

"so where should they go?"

HT "Home. Poland. Germany. America. And everywhere else.

[Statistical]

43. Telling people that have been living there for 3 generations to go "home"

to Germany (a country they have never known) as a "solution" to peace process is bigotted.

The administration of Israel can't go to Germany (they already have a government therE) obviously when you are telling someone to "go home" you have to be speaking of the people. A country can't go home, a govt can't go home, however those damn Jews can go home (to a country that is neither there home nor somewhere they want to go).

In some respects she is no different than leader of Iran. If those damn Jews would just leave (either pushed into sea, or exported to Germany) everything would be rainbows & unicorns.

It would be like telling a black person in the US if they don't like it they could go back to Africa.

[Tailormyst]

87. What of the palestinians who were thrown off their land, was that okay?

[Statistical]

91. Of course it isn't ok.

A real two state solution is the only ehtical solution to the issue.

IF it were up to me (which it isn't and it likely will never be).

1) Israel abandons all settlements in West Bank and makes guarantees that no more will be built.

2) controversial but here me out. Palestinians accept giving up Gaza in return from an equal amount of land contiguous to the West Bank. Why? Gaza is far to small to ever be self sufficient and/or autonomous.

3) Israel pulls citizens out of the West Bank expansion, provides assistance aid to relocate Palestinians from Gaza to expanded West bank.

4) UN recognizes West Bank territory as sovereign Palestinian states.

5) Palestinaians are given full control over West Bank borders, communication lines, electrical connections etc. Isreael does nothing to hinder opening borders between West Bank and Jordon.

[Tailormyst]

95. Add to number 5 water rights and we agree almost completely.

Unfortunately it will never happen unless it is forced. As long as we treat Israel as the proverbial "child who can do no wrong" out of guilt due to our OWN lack of inaction in regards to the treatment of Jews in Europe (this IS the elephant in the room that no one will talk about), then they will never stop what they are doing now. The leadership want all the land, all the resources and they feel entitled to it, much like a spoiled child. They know they can behave in whatever way they want and the US will always be right there fulfilling their needs.

[Statistical]

96. Yeah the list wasn't exaustive.

More generally both groups would need to agree (and abide by) a contiguous Palestinian sta0te that had autonomy in all areas necessary for sovereignty (Water, energy, trade, currency, taxation, economy, borders, security, etc). Israel (and international community) will need to devote real resources (billions of dollars in construction & aid) to make that happen. Palestinians will need to hold their leader accountable and renounce violence.

Sadly looking at a map I don't ever see Gaza being autonomous, too small, too little resources, too isolated from West Bank.

Of course asking Israeli to move for the common good and asking Gazans to move for the common good is almost impossible.
Add to that US condoning of all Israeli actions (not matter how severe) for large geo-political reasons (our only ally in the region) I doubt the situation will ever be solved in my lifetime.

[inna]

46. That was very ugly and uncalled for.

[Statistical]

52. Kinda like telling people they should go back "home" to a country they have never seen.

I heard there is a couple of miles of available land outside a quaint German town called Auschwitz.

Maybe we could just pack all the Jews in there where they won't bother anyone.

[Karenina]

81. Which is EXACTLY what has happened to U.S. citizens in Arizona.

[Statistical]

84. Good analogy. n/t

[Ian David]

62. Tough shit. n/t

[Barack_America]

53. Well aren't you just full of class and goodwill.

What a disgusting comment.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. A little bit late.

Should have left while she was still sane.

[hlthe2b]

16. Ya know, I always thought your previous tag, Bornaginhoolagin

fit you to a "t." Why'd you change it?

[kirby]

18. Well...

to be fair, they still let you hang around here.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Yeah, but I'm not an anti-semite.

Nor have I been becoming increasingly senile for the last couple of years.

[kirby]

29. Well...

Just because someone speaks the truth doesn't make them an anti-semite. She is a journalist--that is the last person that should be criticized for their free speech. The Middle East is a complex situation, but she was correct to highlight that the Palestinians have had their land taken/lives ruined because of the atrocities committed against the Jews by a third party. This episode just highlights how much the pro-Israel forces control Washington and out foreign policy. Such an unbalanced view, to me, dims all hope that there can ever be a solution when the facts are so skewed.

As far as her senility, she seems fine to me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. Listen, just because you like Helen Thomas, doesn't mean she's not a bigot.

[kirby]

92. They said the same about Jimmy Carter n/t

[liam_laddie]

77. massive K&R, kirby

[bobbolink]

7. Damn, DAMN, Fucking DAMN!

[malaise]

27. No first amendment rights for Helen

only for Rush, Beck, Teabaggers, Obama haters and RW hacks from wherever.

corrected subject

[kirby]

33. Please...

You have posted this twice. At least realize that Freedom of Speech is the 1st Amendment. The Right To Bear Arms is the 2nd amendment.

[Statistical]

39. ROFL.

Wonder how many people actually READ the Bill Of Rights anymore?

It isn't that long. Maybe takes you 15 minutes (45 minutes if you do a lot of referencing).

[malaise]

64. LOL

Damn!

[loudsue]

44. So true. Rush & Beck will go on and on. Not the same for Dems

And other people who have actually done a service for this country.

[cali]

47. so she can't own a gun?

please brush up on the bill of rights.

[malaise]

66. Blushing

Can't believe I wrote that

[OhioChick]

10. Sorry to hear this n/t

[hlthe2b]

11. So many of her colleagues and supposed friends have exploited

the situation to run to the microphones and denounce her--Craig Crawford leads among the phonies doing so.

I am extremely saddened by this entire situation... I too want to know why we let the RW fanatics ALWAYS win. If I come across and Ann Coulter or other despicable POS using this as they have in the past, I may well have to be restrained.

[Ian David]

13. And yet Pat Buchannan still has a job. Only Conservatives are allowed to hate Jews & keep their job.

Pat Buchanan: In His Own Words
On American Jews and the Pro-Israel Lobby

1999: "After World War II, Jewish influence over foreign policy became almost an obsession with American leaders."
- A Republic, Not an Empire. P. 336.

1999: "I know the power of the Israeli lobby and the other lobbies, but we need a foreign policy that puts our own country first."
- Meet the Press Interview. September 12, 1999.

1991: "Even if his veto of the (loan) guarantees is overridden, he will have won high marks for his courage, and exposed congress for what it has become, a Parliament of Whores incapable of standing up for U.S. national interests, if AIPAC is on the other end of the line."
- Syndicated column, December 18, 1991

1990: In an August 25,1990, column, Buchanan criticized commentators urging military intervention in Iraq, naming Abe Rosenthal, Richard Perle, Charles Krauthamer and Henry Kissinger. On August 29th, he wrote the following:
"’The civilized world must win this fight,’ the editors thunder. But, if it comes to war, it will not be the ‘civilized world’ humping up that bloody road to Baghdad; it will be American kids with names like McAllister, Murphy, Gonzales, and Leroy Brown."
- Washington Times, August 29, 1990

1990: "There are only two groups that are beating the drums for war in The Middle East – the Israeli Defense Ministry and its amen corner in the United States."
- The McLaughlin Group, Aug 26, 1990

More:
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/buchanan_own_words/print.asp

[spiritual_gunfighter]

22. I dont blame Crawford

what she said was reprehensible, that being said she was a true hero and her presence will be missed. I am still sort of baffled at how many people are defending what she said.

[hlthe2b]

31. Mr. Crawford, who left his gig at MSNBC saying...

to MSNBC president Phil Griffin to the effect:


"Phil, Just wanted to give you the heads up that my situation with MSNBC has become so unrewarding for me that I've decided to move on. -- Craig," was the text of the email Crawford said he sent Griffin three months before his contract expired.

In the comments section of his post, Crawford elaborated:

I simply could not any longer endure being a cartoon player for lefty games, just gotta move on to higher ground even if there's no oxygen

I have never and never will forgive Chris for calling me a racist after the West Virginia primary (the last time I will ever go on air with him). Probably should have resigned then and there, but better late than never.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/05/craig-crawford...


No he is a sleazy opportunist, nothing more....

[spiritual_gunfighter]

65. I could care less about Craig Crawford

The issue is Helen Thomas and her anti-Semitic comments. Since you bring up MSNBC, anyone from that channel that wants to get on their high horse and condemn Thomas's comments should maybe take a look at their own employee Pat Buchanan. A guy that has said and written so many racist things you cant even begin to count them.

That is the double standard I dont like nor understand. Joe Fucking Scarborough calling for her to be fired today on Morning Joe with Anthony Weiner was fucking rich.

[hlthe2b]

69. I agree with the need to take a close look at MSNBC's Buchanan

and Scarborough double standard. Very much so.

As to Crawford, I have a personal issue with supposed friends/colleagues exploiting a situation to their own benefit and jumping ship at the first sign of trouble. Not that they need to agree or publicly support, but silence would be sufficient. Just a general issue I have.

[Raineyb]

83. Doesn't it make you wonder WHY? n/t

[political_Dem]

109. +10000 But unfortunately, the "wondering" ends with some folks "not seeing anything wrong." :(

[hlthe2b]

37. They aren't defending what she said... they are defending

her ability to apologize for this one sad incident and to not be judged in terms of a 67 year career by this one very unfortunate episode.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

63. I dont think she should be judged by this incident alone either

She has done a lot of great things and her record should stand on that. But what she said was reprehensible and is being defended by many because she is on "our side". I cant defend what she said, but she will be missed.

[hlthe2b]

67. I agree that what she said was reprehensible. I do not agree that

she is being defended by many because she is on "our side." The Middle East is a complex situation and this is the end result of the attempt by so many to turn it into a black and white, "good versus evil," "us versus them" kind of issue.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

68. Well I disagree

if Major Garrett had said the same thing, how would we at DU be feeling about it today?

[Raineyb]

71. And Pat Buchanan says worse about more groups of people.

Where's the outrage by the same people who were condemning Ms. Thomas?

I'm really getting tired of hearing nothing but crickets.

[hlthe2b]

76. for years and years and years...

the silence is deafening, isn't it...?

[Raineyb]

82. Exactly. His body of racist work is a hell of a lot longer than

any trail of bigoted remarks from Ms. Thomas. And he still has a job. It would appear on its face that expressing comments against certain groups in this country gets you a pink slip while expressing equally hateful comments about other groups gets you more gigs.

[political_Dem]

110. +10000

[spiritual_gunfighter]

78. I guess you havent read my comments on this very thread on this very topic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8504330&mesg_id=8504781

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=472828&mesg_id=472849

[hlthe2b]

73. I don't know enough about Major Garrett to have any appreciation

as to whether he is a lifelong anti-semite and general cretin or if the comment would have represented only a regrettable moment of frustration. So, while I would condemn the comment, I would have left it at that.

I think I do have enough understanding of Ms. Thomas to judge the difference and to judge her on the entirety of her career and example.

[FLAprogressive]

12. Fuck AIPAC.

[xchrom]

14. Some interesting responses in this thread. Nt

[malaise]

26. Unbelievable is the word

:hi:

Love you Helen.

[laughingliberal]

28. +1000 nt

[Kalyke]

17. I can't find where she, verbatim, said the Jews should "go back to

Germany..." and in what context she said it in.

I agree they should get the hell out of Palestine - and so does my Jewish husband.

However, if Thomas was making a sardonic point that mimics the right wing in this country telling native-born Hispanics or blacks or Arabs or President Obama that they should "go back to (enter name of country here)," then her point is of salient value.

[uppityperson]

23. Here is transcript from youtube vid I found. I couldn't find a longer vid, but here....

"Any comments on Israel?"

HT "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine.
Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not Germany, not Poland."

"so where should they go?"

HT "Home. Poland. Germany. America. And everywhere else.

[malaise]

34. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

You know how long those RW hacks wanted her fired.

Bravo Helen - truth matters.

[suffragette]

79. "You know how long those RW hacks wanted her fired."

I agree that's what all this is really about.

As I noted in another thread:

I think it's because they view it as payback time

Many of those yelling loudest, like Fleischer, thought they had the perception game won completely in the media for awhile. They had a largely compliant or complicit group in the White House press corps. Remember Gannon being in the room? And they'd even staffed places like the NY Times with colleagues like Judith "Aspen" Miller.

They'd shoved Thomas to the back of the room, but she kept speaking up and pressing them and keeping us all informed.
And they hated that.

Colbert probably captured nightmares they had with the piece he included of Helen in his video at the press dinner.

Helen didn't give up, she didn't back down and she gave them no place to attack.
Now they see an opening and they're on the attack and will press as hard as they can to have her fired.

[EFerrari]

100. They're a bunch of hypocritical cowards.

One more reason not to watch the presstitutes.

[suffragette]

106. Yep, and she made their knees quiver

and they hated that and now they're pouncing.

Hope all's well with you!
:hi:

[here_is_to_hope]

35. More people need to read

what she actually said.
I fully agree with her.

[JitterbugPerfume]

19. it is probably for the best

Ms Thomas had a stellar career , and this latest thing can not tarnish it forever.

[hlthe2b]

24. I hope not...

I will try hard to support her next book and to see her at her next book signing. I can only think it a good thing that that snake-in-the-grass, Craig Crawford has withdrawn from co-writing with her.

To a stellar career, Ms Thomas and brighter days ahead. :toast:

[Arkana]

30. Damn.

How many years has she been doing this shit?

I mean, come on--she should have just said "fuck all y'all" and stuck it out. She's 89--retirement or death are imminent anyway.

[Tailormyst]

38. Sorry to see you go Helen.

[Mari333]

48. there goes whatever press we ever had.

damnit.

[backscatter712]

58. The freepers and hasbara-bots are gonna be smug today.

Gee, why am I not surprised they take the same side on a lot of issues?

[Individualist]

86. as are DLC supporters

[NorthCarolina]

94. I think the DLC New Dems are implied by the term "freepers". eom

[Individualist]

99. Good point!

:thumbsup:

[Dappleganger]

75. She's the Grande Dame of yesterday's journalism.

[Union Label]

80. It wont happen but I'd like to see the occupiers of North America go home

And leave the Native Americans alone.

[kgnu_fan]

88. I love Helen. Thank you, Helen, for everything you have done

[NorthCarolina]

93. Conservatives win another round...chip, chip, chip

Faux outrage seems to work every time. Truth is she didn't say anything that any sane person isn't already thinking.

[proteus_lives]

104. She's a racist, fuck her.

[inna]

108. false, disgusting and inflammatory comment

:thumbsdown:

:puke:

[TheKentuckian]

105. While I find Helen's anti-Israel comments disgusting and anti-Semitic I don't think she should be

hounded out and certainly think that overall we'll find ourselves poorer without her to ask the tough questions of the establishment on subjects they tend to either duck or lie about.

I appreciate her years of service to the American people.

[spanone]

107. k&r