Rescue launched for teen solo sailor

[tinymontgomery]

Hope they find her

http://sn140w.snt140.mail.live.com/default.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0

http://www.soundingsonline.com/news/dispatches/492-june-10-2010-breaking-news/257542-breaking-news-rescue-launched-for-teen-solo-sailor

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GodlessBiker]

2. Her parents should be arrested. Even adults who swim the English Channel ...

have boats which follow them along their route.

[Fumesucker]

3. She's sixteen..

Old enough to drive alone in my state, an activity which kills *far* more teenagers than sailing, statistically she would be much more likely to die driving a car than sailing a boat.

Should the parents of teens who allow them to drive alone be arrested?

Or is it only certain kinds of danger which trigger this sort of outburst?

[rotund1]

4. There are a few folks who think anyone driving a car should be arrested!

:D

:shrug:

[Fumesucker]

7. I've noticed..

A lot of them start flame wars on DU.. :)

:hi:

[FLPanhandle]

6. Because driving is equivalent to sailing solo around the world.

:eyes:

[Fumesucker]

8. In terms of danger?

I would say yes..

We don't notice how dangerous driving is because most of us do it on a regular basis..

There are two crosses on the street in front of my local high school where kids were killed pulling out of the parking lot.

[FLPanhandle]

10. Really?

You aren't just being argumentative? You think driving is as dangerous as a solo sail around the world!?!

[Fumesucker]

11. For a teenager just starting to drive?

Let's put it this way, they are both risky activities but I'm really not sure which is the more dangerous one.

Like I said, two kids died (in separate accidents) right smack in front of the local HS..

The parking lot there is still full of kid's cars.

[FLPanhandle]

13. I love sailing, been doing it all my life.

However, if you've ever been offshore in a storm, you might rethink your risk analysis. The forces are absolutely enormous on the rigging, sails, and rudder. Open water Solo sailing takes great stamina, strength, and living on little sleep for months.

[Fumesucker]

17. And the forces involved in a car crash are also enormous..

Constant utter vigilance is required when driving, particularly in the modern urban/suburban setting.

Learning to control the vehicle isn't particularly difficult, learning to think for every other idiot on the road requires a lot more time and effort and a mindset that's not easily attained.

The girl sailing had been doing it for most of her life too, I suspect she knew the dangers and her limitations far better than the average sixteen year old knows the dangers of driving.

[FLPanhandle]

21. You do realize that she was guaranteed to hit at least a 1/2 dozen storms on this trip

How many trips would you take if you were sure you'd have 6-10 accidents? That's the risk difference.

[Fumesucker]

22. Storm does not equal accident..

And most "accidents" are not really accidents, something like 90% could be avoided if one or both parties are properly vigilant and in control of their vehicle, I learned that when I took a course to be a professional driver way back in the days of wooden cars and iron men.

Storms can more accurately analogized as tricky driving situations and we all see plenty of those if we drive much at all.

[FLPanhandle]

25. Storms can't be avoided though.

As you said, most accidents can be avoided. That's why putting a 16 year old out there when they are guaranteed to hit at least 1/2 dozen storms far from any support makes sailing much more dangerous than driving.

[Fumesucker]

26. But tricky driving situations can't be avoided..

They can be anticipated and managed, which is what a good sailor does with a storm.

More than just a few people are terrified of flying, but most of those people casually accept the much greater danger of driving to the airport.

We discount and in fact don't even notice the familiar dangers we face every day while the unfamiliar which is often much less dangerous fills us with fear simply because it is less familiar.

Take someone from the nineteenth century and put them in a car on a modern interstate highway and they would be consumed with utter terror and rightly so, it is indeed a dangerous activity to drive.

[FLPanhandle]

27. So now a storm out a sea = a tricky driving situation?

LOL.

[Fumesucker]

28. They can be equally deadly if not handled properly..

It's really interesting the way you minimize the dangers inherent in driving.

As I pointed out earlier, right outside the parking lot of a local HS (the one my daughter went to in fact) there are two crosses from two separate incidents of kids killed in cars there.

And yet the parking lot remains filled with kid's cars, clearly the parents do not care for the safety of their children, right?

[FLPanhandle]

31. I would put the death rate of sailors in storms much higher than the death rate of tricky situations

That's just me. I've been through both.

[Fumesucker]

35. And yet you're still alive..

Tricky driving situations pop up with considerably more frequency than storms at sea if you drive much or on heavily traveled roads..

I live less than a hundred yards from a major intersection of two state highways with a red light.. It is a rare week when we don't call the emergency services at least twice for severe collisions at that intersection after hearing screaming tires and crunching metal and glass.

[FLPanhandle]

36. *sigh* I'm alive is why they are equivalent?

If you spent one night at sea in a storm, we wouldn't be discussing this. In fact, your premise is so silly, I just give up.

[Fumesucker]

40. If you had slid upside down along the highway at 70 mph you would respect the car crash more too.

And in fact I have been in several storms at sea.. I used to work in the offshore oilfield business.

[FLPanhandle]

41. Have it your way. Sailing alone around the world is as dangerous as driving to the corner store.

I doubt you've ever been in a sailboat during a storm. Sitting on a large ship or a rig watching waves isn't the same, but you should still know better.

[Fumesucker]

44. Keep in mind what started this subthread..

Godless Biker said the parents should be arrested for allowing the girl to do something dangerous.

I pointed out that kids the same age often do something quite dangerous and no one thinks their parents should be arrested for it.

What is the appropriate level of danger that divides the "no one thinks anything of it" from "their parents should be arrested"?

Or is it just the fact that one danger is boringly familiar while the other is scarily unfamiliar?

[FLPanhandle]

47. It's not the fact that one is familiar or unfamiliar

It's that one is exponentially more dangerous than the other.

In fact so dangerous that, yes, a responsible parent wouldn't let their child make that decision until they are an adult.

You, however, see them as equally dangerous. Despite your belief, they are not even close.

Lots of things are dangerous such as swimming or crossing the street. Parents slowly allow more of those activites based and the age of the child.

If a parent that lets a 10 year drive a car even if they argue that child has been well trained and has been doing it for all her life, should still be arrested for it. A parent that lets a 16 sail solo around the world should be arrested for it.

[Fumesucker]

49. I'm glad you weren't my parent..

I got to do a lot of things that you would have had my parents arrested for, like scuba diving in the ocean at fifteen, riding my bicycle for miles on the main road without a helmet and so on.

[FLPanhandle]

52. I did all those things too.

Again, totally different level of risk. You seem to equate all dangerous activities as equal and keep bringing up silly examples.

None of those are in the same league as a solo circumnavigation in a small sailboat where its an absolute guarantee the child's life will be in peril.

Not COULD be, WILL be.

[KonaKane]

51. The person sounds like they don't know the ocean from lotion.

Cannot believe the ignorance about the overwhelming danger of the oceans. I live with it every day, here on the coast. They are pulling bodies out of the water all the time - just off shore, never mind hundreds or thousands of miles out.

Wow, dumb dumb dumb.

[Fumesucker]

58. They pull bodies out of cars every day too..

And Abby was found alive and unharmed.

[treestar]

34. Driving is controlled, and even teenagers for the most part don't get

killed doing it.

You're way off base here.

The sea is a much greater force than any car.

[Fumesucker]

39. Driving is controlled?

It has all the randomness of human foibles and a great deal of energy concentrated into a deadly mass that can crush you just by rolling over you while also being able to cover the length of a football field in a second or two.

My grandfather spent his working life at sea, had a master's ticket in both sail and steam, he died in bed at home.

Sailing is more dangerous than laying in bed but it's by no means as dangerous as it was a couple of hundred years ago.

And driving is more dangerous than most people want to admit, nearly fifteen times as many people die in car crashes in the USA every year as died in the attacks on 9/11 and yet our culture lost its collective mind over those deaths and barely notices the driving deaths.

[cherokeeprogressive]

46. Well let's put that to the test...

Millions of 16 year olds drive. Even if 1 in 10 died, which isn't likely, that's 10% of 16 year olds who die behind the wheel.

One 16 year old has tried to circumnavigate the globe, and she's likely dead, may she RIP if she is. That's 100% of 16 year olds who've come to some kind of misfortune while sailing around the world alone.

So, no. In terms of danger, driving IS NOT comparable to attempting to circumnavigate the globe alone at 16 years old.

I'm holding out hope that she's alive, but I'm sorry, I can't agree with your claim.

[Fumesucker]

48. At what level of danger should the parents be arrested?

That's my point.

Or is it only unusual dangerous situations that warrant arrest of the parents?

[cherokeeprogressive]

55. I don't know that they should be arrested. If, God forbid, the worst happens, they'll pay for the

rest of their lives. She is of an age where she knows right from wrong, good from bad, and dangerous from mundane.

I'd be damned though if I'd facilitate my 18 year old daughter's attempt at circumnavigating the world alone. No now, not tomorrow, probably not ever.

At 16 she might have been an excellent sailor under most circumstances, but the sea is a terrible bad place. When ships were wood and men were steel, many a Sailor went to a watery death facing less than 25 foot seas and 60 knot winds.

[GodlessBiker]

29. Well, so far the percentage of 16 year-olds sailing around the world who die is 100%

I bet that is higher than the percentage of 16 year-olds who die in car accidents.

[Fumesucker]

43. We have word she has died?

I didn't know that.

My sympathies to those who love her.

[hayu_lol]

54. GBiker: On May 15th, Jessica Watson, age 16, sailed her boat...

Ella's Pink Lady through Sydney Heads and completed her circumnavigation of the world. Your estimate of 100% fatalities needs to be revised.

Jessica spent 210 days alone at sea and sailed her boat 23,000 miles. She had her share of storms as well, but obviously survived them. She just spent a week sailing her boat from Sydney to Queensland and her home port.

Some kids can do this. Some can't. Some can drive safely. Some can't.

Depends on the kids and what dreams they pursue, as well as what training they master.

[GodlessBiker]

30. .

[treestar]

33. This is way different

Sailing a boat is one thing, but she's 2000 miles out to sea.

[Fumesucker]

45. You can drown in a bathtub in a couple of minutes..

Do you also think the parents should be arrested for allowing their child to do something "dangerous"?

That's the statement that pushed my buttons, kids that age often drive, a dangerous activity in which tens of thousands of people get killed every year in the USA and no one thinks anything of it.

[Obamanaut]

38. We read quite frequently here how 16, 18, and even 20 year olds don't

have fully developed brains, so they don't recognize the folly of some of the things they do. This is especially true when someone posts about a youngster who has committed some lawbreaking event, a beating of someone else, etc.

This incomplete development is why the parents should have seen fit to disallow this around the world jaunt in a small boat on the open seas. Not good headwork by the parents or child.

And now, the parents have likely lost the child, and a huge amount will be spent on the search phase of the operation.

[Fumesucker]

42. It is also why 16, 18 and even 20 year olds shouldn't drive..

And yet we allow them to drive.

If you can make the one argument then I can make the other.

The only reason this is even a story is because it's something unusual, if this kid were to be killed in a car crash no one but her loved ones would give the slightest damn and we certainly wouldn't be discussing it here.

[Obamanaut]

56. It is the argument, or excuse, that one reads here quite frequently

when a young person is involved in anything that is illegal or harmful: "...If you can make the one argument then I can make the other....'

There will be posts along the line of "He's just a child." or "Their cognitive functions are not fully developed." Never mind that the kid just blew away his Dad's girlfriend with a shotgun, or a group of kids just beat up a delivery driver to get some potato chips.

This kid's plans should have been nipped in the bud at the planning phase. Now she, and the parents, will pay the price. If she is found alive, that's a good thing, but does not erase the mental anguish the parents are going through.

[EFerrari]

5. Yeah. That makes no sense to me. Insufficient back up.

WTH?

[hayu_lol]

12. Good thoughts for her family and for Abby herself...

she got behind schedule by two breakdowns of gear: once in Mexico(Baha)and again off Capetown. These made her enter the winter zone where the storms coming up out of Antarctia in the southern ocean are pretty fierce.

Her brother made the comment that the beacon that only gets set off if the boat is under 15 feet of water has not been activated. She may have a swamped boat. Her other two beacons, activated at 6am PDT Thursday she had to turn on herself, one on the exposure suit and the other on the raft. In one of her last messages to her mom, she said that she was having engine problems that she had to fix.

One ship is 40 hours from her, another is 48 hours away. She is roughly 400 miles east of Madagascar and about 500 miles north of Reunion Island.

[KonaKane]

50. I agree - her parents are negligent.

At the very least they need to be prosecuted on reckless endangerment of a minor. Still, I hope they find this poor girl alive.

[hamsterjill]

9. I hope they find her, as well.

Recently, there was a discussion on NPR about the young man (early teens) who climbed Everest and became the youngest person to ever do so.

The discussion took place before the climb, and centered around the teen's mental maturity and decision-making abilities. There was an experienced climber commenting. And he made some very good points, I thought.

One of the issues that he brought up had to do with whether or not a teen would have the maturity to call off a climb if circumstances warranted. For instance, an experienced climber might re-think a climb should equipment malfunction or the weather turn unexpectedly bad. The experienced climber would know that it was a better decision to call off a climb, live, and be able to attempt the climb at another, more favorable time.

However, would the teen do the same thing? Particularly if that teen was under extreme pressure to "be the youngest" and knew that the clock was ticking.

Why do I bring this up? Mostly, because I have to wonder how much pressure might be put on a youngster to "succeed" if something like this round-the-world sailing trip was allowed to begin.

Again, I hope they find her quickly and that she is okay. But I wish there was more concern, generally, about keeping children safe, than in setting records.

[hayu_lol]

14. She would have set no records on this voyage...

would have to have restarted the trip from Capetown. No official record is allowed for anyone under 18. My hunch is that she just wanted to complete the trip and was probably headed to her homeport of Marina del Rey.

She told her mom that one knock down took out her radar and that was the last transmission so her other gear went out at the same time.

She did send a good position report at that time.

Some sixteen year olds make some pretty good decisions about what they want to do. Only two years more and we send 18 year olds off to war. Maybe attempting a dream is more important than facing old age after a humdrum life.

[hamsterjill]

16. You have some interesting points here.

I agree that some sixteen year olds are more mature than others, and some make very good decisions. But I still stand by my assertion that a lot of maturity (generally) can be learned in the two years between age 16 and age 18.

I don't get to make the rules, but I don't agree with sending our 18 year olds off to war either.

How many valuable resources will be used in trying to locate this young lady? I'm not saying those resources shouldn't be used, just noting that they are going to have to be used.

I wish her well and I hope to read very soon that she's been found and is fine.

[Bobbieo]

15. With all of the other tragedies going on in the world today, I hope the family is going to pay

for the rescue mission to find their 16 year old daughter.

[hayu_lol]

20. Of the two ships heading her way...

one(40 hours)is a French Navy vessel. The other is a fishing ship(48 hours). When the beacons were turned on this morning, her mother started to set up a rescue mission. Mom by the way, is due to give birth at the end of the month.

Chances are that her boat is swamped but still afloat with Abby on it. She has one of those inflatable shelter-type rafts to give her some protection. Water temp is in the 50 degree range. She is wearing one of those protective suits as well. Both suit and raft have their beacons on so that her changing position can be pinpointed for the rescue vessels.

Abby is, I think, about 101 days out of Marina del Ray.

There are something less than 250 people who have done this circumnavigation.

[here_is_to_hope]

18. Abby was doomed from the start.

I had already been following Jessica Watson when I heard about Abby.
I know it sounds weird but I had the feeling then that she would fail horribly.
She had already been ashore for repairs, ending the nonstop record and Jessica finished up a few weeks a go.
Best of luck to her though, she is a pretty good sailor and may get by yet.

[seabeyond]

19. ah, i was confused. i had watched a news clip on one of the girls finishing.

i didnt know there was another girl doing a sail.

ah man.

[hayu_lol]

23. Jessica Watson sailed Ella's Pink Lady through Sydney Heads...

May 15th completing her circumnavigation. She turned 17 two days later. 210 days at sea and 23,000 miles of sailing. Had horrible weather down south of Australia and around Tasmania and just bad weather heading north to Sydney. Quite a triumphal return.

She sailed her boat home to homeport in Western Australia last week with her brother and a friend as crew. Now she gets to learn to drive and is looking forward to it.

[canetoad]

32. Home port is in Queensland

Mooloolaba, north of Brisbane

[tinymontgomery]

24. There are some very good books

about solo sailing around the world. The Van de globe (international race) the first called "A Voyage For Madmen by Peter Nichols Published by Harper Collins " great read. Then there is Godforsaken Sea: The True Story of a Race Through the World's Most Dangerous Waters". One of the worlds great sailors was lost on that race.

[Jamastiene]

37. I hope they find her safe and sound. n/t

[david13]

53. There are people sailing that ocean all the time. She will be fine. dc

[Liberal In Texas]

57. SHE'S BEEN FOUND!

The teen attempting to become the youngest sailor to circumnavigate the globe has been found stranded at sea after a storm tossed her boat on its side and snapped the mast.

Abby Sunderland, 16, told search and rescuers around 11 p.m. PST Thursday that she was unharmed and had righted her boat, but had lost sailing capacity. Her family, sick with worry while Sunderland was lost at sea, was elated to hear the news.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/abby-sunderland-teen-sailor-found-alive-crisis-sea/story?id=10885107

[david13]

59. She is alive and well. Just like I predicted. This young lady knows

what she is doing and how to do it.
More power to her and to her parents.
dc