Oil coming out of seafloor

[undergroundpanther]

The BOP has been sandblasted..into nothing useful..sea floor is weak because of a few wealthy individual's rapacious GREED.



http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2010/06/13/bp-gulf-oil-spill-seafloor-oil-gas-leak-videos-photos/

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2010/06/12/interview-fintan-dunne-discussing-sea-floor-leaks-blown-casing-nuke-cap/

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/

[rug]

1. Well, that doesn't sound good.

[tekisui]

2. Not good at all.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Damn

I was afraid of this.

[defendandprotect]

4. Thanks -- haven't had time to read links yet -- K&R --

[Catherina]

5. Direct link to the video. Frightening. Rec'd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2RxIQP0IBU&feature=player_embedded#!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

6. Nothing like sitting around and waiting for things to get uncontrollably

out of hand. Way to go assholes.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

7. Recced and it better get over 100....

[Webster Green]

8. Here's a link if you want to get really depressed.

A comment from a poster at the oil drum.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6593#comment-648967

[Catherina]

12. Confirming my worst fears there WG

From your link:


The well pipes below the sea floor are broken and leaking.

...


A down hole leak is dangerous and damaging for several reasons.
There will be erosion throughout the entire beat up, beat on and beat down remainder of the "system" including that inaccessible leak. The same erosion I spoke about in the first post is still present and has never stopped, cannot be stopped, is impossible to stop and will always be present in and acting on anything that is left which has crude oil "Product" rushing through it. There are abrasives still present, swirling flow will create hot spots of wear and this erosion is relentless and will always be present until eventually it wears away enough material to break it's way out. It will slowly eat the bop away especially at the now pinched off riser head and it will flow more and more. Perhaps BP can outrun or keep up with that out flow with various suckage methods for a period of time, but eventually the well will win that race, just how long that race will be?...no one really knows....However now?...there are other problems that a down hole leak will and must produce that will compound this already bad situation.

This down hole leak will undermine the foundation of the seabed in and around the well area. It also weakens the only thing holding up the massive Blow Out Preventer's immense bulk of 450 tons. In fact?...we are beginning to the results of the well's total integrity beginning to fail due to the undermining being caused by the leaking well bore.

...

Eventually even that will be futile as the well casings cannot support the weight of the massive system above with out the cement bond to the earth and that bond is being eroded away. When enough is eroded away the casings will buckle and the BOP will collapse the well. If and when you begin to see oil and gas coming up around the well area from under the BOP? or the area around the well head connection and casing sinking more and more rapidly? ...it won't be too long after that the entire system fails. BP must be aware of this, they are mapping the sea floor sonically and that is not a mere exercise. Our Gov't must be well aware too, they just are not telling us.

All of these things lead to only one place, a fully wide open well bore directly to the oil deposit...after that, it goes into the realm of "the worst things you can think of" The well may come completely apart as the inner liners fail. There is still a very long drill string in the well, that could literally come flying out...as I said...all the worst things you can think of are a possibility, but the very least damaging outcome as bad as it is, is that we are stuck with a wide open gusher blowing out 150,000 barrels a day of raw oil or more. There isn't any "cap dome" or any other suck fixer device on earth that exists or could be built that will stop it from gushing out and doing more and more damage to the gulf. While at the same time also doing more damage to the well, making the chance of halting it with a kill from the bottom up less and less likely to work, which as it stands now?....is the only real chance we have left to stop it all.

It's a race now...a race to drill the relief wells and take our last chance at killing this monster before the whole weakened, wore out, blown out, leaking and failing system gives up it's last gasp in a horrific crescendo.

[Webster Green]

14. Indeed.

If the well pipe is damaged deep down, they may not even be able to kill it with the relief wells.

It's beyond depressing.

[Urban Prairie]

30. The drill hole is being widened by abrasion of the leaking drill pipe and erosion around the outside

So it appears that the gusher might also eject possibly the entire linkage of pipe casing as well as the drill string itself out of the drill hole like my blowing the paper wrapper from the open end of a plastic straw..???

Yikes!!

:scared:

[Gin]

45. not sure I understand what that would do....would it be like an

underwater rocket being fired up from the bottom? if so, it could go anywhere..

[Urban Prairie]

51. I doubt that the the entire pipe casing from the wellhead to the bottom would be ejected like rocket

The segmented drill pipe within the pipe casing might be ejected entirely intact all at once, but after rereading that post by craigr on TOD, perhaps the entire pipe casing might be ejected from the wellbore in pieces at a time, JMO.

[tnlefty]

34. horrific cresendo...

I don't even want to contemplate that. I think I'll go get a beer and distract myself for a little while.

[Webster Green]

36. No shit!

Beer could help.

I'm streaming the Bonnaroo Festival live. That could help too: http://www.youtube.com/bonnaroo

[eowyn_of_rohan]

60. Beer and music - proof that God loves us

I heard

[dipsydoodle]

88. You missed out

bacon the existence of which is regarded as proof there really is a God.

[tavalon]

106. BP

Proof that there is a devil and he just absolutely loves BP.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

109. BP - - Beelzebub's Pal

:evilfrown:

[tnlefty]

69. Thanks, but today was our first day to eat most of a meal

from out little garden in the back yard and my FIL was here and he enjoyed it very much.

Fried green tomatoes, with a sauce, green beans, zuchinni squash (the potatoes and onions came from the store), cucumbers, corn from a local produce stand (grown in TN). Yum, yum. Now back to the Land Shark (Jimmy Buffett beer)

Two rather large events in TN, The Riverbend Festival and Bonnaroo scheduled for the same time this year. Talk about poor planning, perhaps they consulted the BP engineers and the MMS? (gallows humor)

[KansDem]

99. Also TeeVee...

I think I'll go get a beer and distract myself for a little while.

TeeVee's a good distraction. Been distracting us for decades while the "New World Order" has been positioning itself to do shit like this...

But I like beer, too! :beer:

[Javaman]

75. holy jesus...

for the very first time, during this whole fucked up mess, I think I'm honestly scared shitless.

As epic as this disaster is, it is about to become a world changer.

[tavalon]

108. About to?

Yes, the Gulf is dead water moving.

[Javaman]

142. I mean more than it already is...

That thing busts open as this report spells out, then it only won't be the gulf that is dead.

[NashVegas]

93. The Question That Keeps Coming to My Mind

When does displacement become a factor?

[Poboy]

16. Wow. This is unbelievable. Thank you for adding. nt

[glitch]

17. Holy moly. nt

[dana_b]

19. omg - that is not for the feint of heart

I am not yet done reading it but I have chills - the bad kind of chills.

[wordpix]

22. OMG---it could go from catastrophe to worse than that

:cry: and there's nothing we or Obama or BP can do, except shut up the Haley Barbours and Mary Landrieus when they tell us to drill baby drill some more.

[dixiegrrrrl]

31. Oh sweet Jesus.....that makes so much sense. Horribly so.

My heart is in my throat.

But it all makes sense. The lies from BP, the failures, the noticeable lack of "truthiness" and details from the BP and the government.

Time for a valium.

Thanks for posting that......I think.

[RoyGBiv]

50. Be careful with what that guy says ...

In other threads, he is being taken to task for his comment about a "rupture disk" upon which a good portion of his theory is based. He's sorta backed off of it, but is not seemingly willing to engage in reasonable discussion with other noted experts on TOD. The bit about how the BOP remains (or doesn't remain) stable is rather weird also, and he uses the word "literally" way to damn much.

Also, if you'll notice from comments later on in that thread, other threads today, or just by following the last link in that message, this same post was put up by someone named "SHR" at site called Godlikeproductions. (Visit it at your own risk. It's got some interesting javascript running.) When asked about this at TOD, Dougr, the poster at TOD, was cagey about it but indicated the post first appeared at godlikeproductions, posted by "SHR---whoever that is---;-)." The writing style is clear, so I don't think it's that much of a mystery.

Dougr, FWIW, joined TOD four years ago and posted three times prior to today.

Now, you can go over to godlikeproductions and find that SHR (aka Dougr at TOD) is a complete nut: birther, HATES Obama, racist, homophobe, etc. He has a lot of "interesting" theories about a lot of things. One post he made prior to the election suggested that Obama was a part of a homosexual sex, drug, and murder scandal. Had all kinds of evidence for it too.

Now, having said all that, I am *not* saying his post is entirely wrong. I've been monitoring the Oil Drum's IRC channel for a week or so now, and a lot of what shows up in that piece has been put forth by another individual in bits and pieces in the last few days. Notably, this person has been debating the issue rather strongly with several TOD regulars in the IRC channel, resulting in some very tense moments a few days ago. They all pretty much agree that there is damage below the surface, but unlike "Dougr" implies, this isn't exactly a secret, and it doesn't necessarily mean what this person says it means. Another TOD member posted several news stories that mentioned it, including a press release from Chu's office indicating fears about this were a significant part of the reasoning for stopping the "Top Kill" at the time they did. They were afraid it was making things worse. The cable media didn't pick up on this very quickly, but print did to some extent.

Anyway, as I said, I don't mention this to discount how bad this situation is or suggest it's not flat out horrible, because it is horrible, and we are pretty much in a worst case scenario. I suggest, however, taking "Dougr's" comments with a huge helping of salt and not relying on him personally as a source. I think he is in general parroting another person and adding some of his own anti-government twists.

[Webster Green]

52. Thanks for that.

Good info.

It's time consuming to try to keep up with all the comments and references over there.

[RoyGBiv]

82. It is ...

A number of people have come out of the woodwork in recent weeks who had either never before posted at TOD or, like this guy, had done so very infrequently. He implies he's an expert in this (using "we" and "those of us" referring to experts), but no one seems to know who he is or what his credentials are. All I could gather about him is that he likes to ride motorcycles.

Anyway, what made my ears prick on this guy was the final link leading to that other website, which happens to be the website where an "Armageddon" theory involving a meteor crashing into the Earth was passed around a few years ago. It was a richly constructed conspiracy that reads a bit like the scripts to the movies built around that scenario in the recent past. This person being an administrator of that site (since 2005 apparently) made me decide to look a little deeper.

But once again, just to make clear, I'm not trying to denounce the whole thing. As I've said, I think he got this from Alex Higgens (or from a debate in which Higgens was involved) and then added his own spin.

[rambler_american]

90. You want someone who knows WTF he's talking about?

Read any and every post written by Fishgrease over at DKos.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6/14/875681/-Fishgrease:-Booming-BP-Execs

He is a credible source.

[RoyGBiv]

91. He's interesting ...

...and I believe he's credible.

To be perfectly frank, however, I'm not interested in the "color" he adds to his entries.

I learn more about this reading discussions between people who work in this business that avoid the politics and the superfluous profanity and remain focused on the technical details of what is happening and why. Certainly Fishgrease is more fun to read and imparts essential information in a way that is accessible, but I prefer reading the play-by-plays I've been getting from experts at The Oil Drum while I watch the ROV cams do their work.

Not trying to knock your recommendation. I think it's a good one. I'm just clarifying my preferences.

[truth2power]

66. Thanks, RGB, for taking the time to post that lengthy explanation...

I don't know what to think anymore, but I'm getting very worried about where this is all going to end. "Horrible" is bad enough.

[laughingliberal]

79. Good information. Thanks.

This is all pretty nightmarish stuff but if this guy is one of the Obama conspiracy people, he could be trying to hype it up a bit.

That said, something seems to be getting worse but maybe it's not the first of the 4 horseman.

[RoyGBiv]

81. This is the difficulty with things like this ...

He's working with genuine information, inserting a few bits of information that could be true but might not be, implying expertise, and then playing on people's fears in a way that almost forces them to infer their worst nightmares. If you read the piece closely, he doesn't flat out state that this or that is going to happen, but one could be forgiven from coming away from the piece believing that emptying an underground well will cause the sea floor to collapse and that 2.3 billion barrels of oil will be released before this ends.

All that is based on kernels of truth but does not necessarily lead to an obvious conclusion. For instance, why would emptying *this* well cause the sea floor to collapse when never before has emptying a well caused the sea floor to collapse? He tries to hide the need to ask that question in some techno-babble that's well above most people's common knowledge, but it's a legitimate question and one not addressed here. As any oil geologist knows, the oil doesn't just sit in a hollow chamber that is left as an open cave when depleted. The oil is trapped in porous rock under high pressure, and when the oil and gas are released, it is replaced with water from the surrounding rock. Problems occur in areas where there is no water in the surrounding rock, causing the porous rock to collapse on itself somewhat. Certainly this has effects on the surrounding geology, but not the ones that are implied by the "empty cave" vision many people have.

And I'm getting well above my own level of knowledge at this point and so will leave it alone. I don't know what's going to happen. As I said initially, he seems to have copied genuine information from various sources and then added his own spin. Where that spin begins is the difficult part, but if I had to guess, I'd say he got almost all of that from Alex Higgens, whose blog is linked to in the OP and who was a major player in the debates that occurred on the Oil Drum IRC channel last week. In fact, a few of the phrases appear to have been lifted word for word from those debates and from issues on which no consensus was drawn.

[profgoose]

102. all important points...

Yes, I know everyone's hungry for information and logic on this, and understandably so. But this is a commenter at TOD, not a poster. Until the logic and evidence are checked out, be gentle with yourselves and your worry, please.

[Webster Green]

110. Good advice.

Thanks, profgoose!

[dana_b]

119. thank you for this

because most of us are ignorant when it comes to this stuff and are just looking for some info. The problem being that since BP hasn't been forthcoming and honest then people like us are looking for someone to tell us what the hell is going on. We don't know who/what to believe but this guy sounds like he knows what he is saying however I'm actually glad to here that he should be taken with a grain of salt.

It sounds like no one really knows what is going to happen however the idea of the sea floor opening up and dumping all that oil is not likely. Fingers crossed anyway.

[RoyGBiv]

120. Nail Meet Head.

BP has poisoned two environments, one the Gulf, the other the environment in which people try to figure out what the hell is happening.

I don't necessarily blame people who come up with sometimes off-the-wall explanations for things. I blame the people who run around pretending to be double-ought spies with their secrecy and flat-out lies that create the environment where off-the-wall explanations flourish.

The Oil Drum has been an excellent resource through all this, and I'm quite thankful for it. A lot of what those people are doing is guessing themselves because they're dealing with the same crap we are, but at least they have expertise in it and know what the equipment is, understand the physics involved, have enough familiarity with these situations to know what should be happening, etc. The only problem with it is that TOD's popularity has draw more than a few cranks. The mods in the IRC channel have to become real hard-asses about it, but it's kept it pretty much free of the nonsense.

I'm gonna have to throw a donation toward The Oil Drum soon. They've experienced some serious increases in bandwidth usage over the past couple months.

[Hissyspit]

68. delete nt

[Poll_Blind]

144. Son of a bitch! The scariest thing about that is it doesn't take...

...a scientist or engineer to understand. Erosion never even occurred to me.

Goddamn.

PB

[Jackpine Radical]

9. Oh, Jesus.

I'm almost ready to bet that some maniac will convince the authorities to nuke the Gulf, with the certain result, first, that there will be thousands of ruptures in the tens of thousands of miles of decaying pipeline already down there, and second, that there will be lots of new fissures in the rock throughout the Gulf, with obvious and disastrous sequelae.

[undergroundpanther]

18. I hear talk about nuking

the gusher already.Even my roommate offered it up as an "idea".

BP is thinking already along those lines..

http://www.dailytech.com/A+Solution+to+BPs+Huge+Spill+Blow+it+up+With+Huge+Bomb+Says+Top+Marine/article18683.htm

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/it-time-blow-leaking-gulf-oil-well-b


And with all the VOC's in the air...

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/HAC/pha/pha.asp?docid=739&pg=1
http://kyotoobserver.vox.com/library/post/blowoutbloginfo-toxic-gases-continue-to-increase-in-gulf-air.html

http://www.wacktrap.com/environment/oil-spills/bp-oil-spill-fishermen-drop-flies-nasa-satellites-show-voc
http://www.workerscompensation.com/compnewsnetwork/blogwire/osha_reports_initial_of_gulf.html

[wordpix]

33. "3 Stooges with Nukes"---NO!!!!!

[localroger]

59. I was ridiuculing this myself last week

But if the well casing is shot, it's the only option left, and trying it really can't make it worse.

[Hugabear]

138. Those links do not suggest that BP is considering anything of the sort

The people in those links who have suggested using nukes are not BP. They're outside "experts" who have suggested possibly using nukes to contain the leak. Really, did anyone think that we would make it this far without anybody suggesting the most extreme measure possible? Hell, you can't have a made-for-TV disaster movie without the "nuke option" coming into play, so it was just a matter of time before the media found someone who would suggest doing it in real life.

[wordpix]

35. I don't get how blowing the whole thing apart will stop the spew

It's likely to be as you said, instead.

[Donnachaidh]

44. it's theoretical, and would NOT work

KO had someone on who explained how it could actually turn into an even worse clusterf*ck than it is.

[TheMadMonk]

77. It's not blowing the whole thing apart. Very basically the theory is...

...pick a spot a few hundred metres from the well and a few hundred down. Drill a hole, put nuke in bottom. Fill with concrete.

Detonate nuke.

In theory at least enough rock and soil lies above the nuke to keep the entire force of the explosion tamped below ground. The shockwave from the nuke propogates sideways until it hits the "flaw" which is the drill bore and colapses it. Hopefully along a great enough length that the pressure from beneath can't push the blockage aside.

[tavalon]

111. Making the sand into glass may seal the rupture

"May" is the most operative word there. It may well FUBAR but then we're pretty much there already. It's a big ocean but it's a huge gusher. I think we've lost the Gulf.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. They sandblasted the sea floor?

What happened to a clean drilling?

[undergroundpanther]

15. They didn't sandblast it deliberately

It was from the high pressure,and the sand ,mud and other stuff coming out of the well along with the oil for over a month. The reason BP hasn't stopped this volcano of oil,is they Can't stop it!

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/06/evidence-points-to-destruction-beneath.html

http://www.wkrg.com/gulf_oil_spill/article/oil-plume-video/894773/Jun-09-2010_10-52-pm/

[The Backlash Cometh]

37. Our only hope is that oil wells run dry.

Which is exactly what we all fear.

Question: Assuming that the pressure driving this thing is gaseous, over time, will the sea water absorb the space in the well or are we in for some continental shifts?

[AtheistCrusader]

83. Been watching massive activity on the San Andreas the last two weeks.

Starting to wonder if things are beginning to shift or settle due to the bleed off of pressure in this reserve.

I suppose if a major fault gives way, we'll never know for sure if they are related, but sure starting to wonder.

[tbredbeck]

95. no relationship

There's no relationship between the Gulf and what is normal activity on the San Andreas fault.

[AtheistCrusader]

146. You sure about that?

There's lateral pressure between the plates. If things are shifting and moving on one side, they may well be moving on the opposite as well.

Over 100 quakes in the 1-5.9 mag range in the last 24h on that fault. It is extremely active.

You're probably right, most likely this is just human free-association, seeing patterns where there aren't really any, but the possiblity seems real, if remote.

[marylanddem]

11. this is so freaking horrible

no break from the bad & worsening news.

[defendandprotect]

13. Noticed various reports on this over weeks ....sad to see now being confirmed ....

Obviously, BP has known this --

Olbermann was the first I noticed suspicious of this but didn't hear all his

comments at the time --

But -- the idea of adding a nuke to the damage already done sounds even more insane --

IMO.

HOWEVER, I WILL SAY THIS, WE HAVE GONE SO FAR IN THIS CAPITALIST/ELITE ATTACK ON

NATURE THAT WE ARE PROBABLY REACHING THE POINT OF FULL INSANITY WHERE IT WILL BE

PROVEN . . . 'WE HAD TO BURN THE VILLAGE TO SAVE IT' -- !!!

[FBI_Un_Sub]

20. This may be natural and NOT a result of drilling

Back in the 19th Century when oil was discovered in Pennsylvania, the original "hint" was an oily sheen on streams and ponds before any drilling took place.

Back before any commercial drilling on the Gulf Coast, early wildcatters used the presence of an oily sheen on lakes, bays, sounds, and bayous as a predictor of oil.

Remember (post Haitian earthquake) there are numerous earthquake fault lines in the Gulf, numerous (Geothermal) hot spots in the Gulf -- all potential spots for oil "leaks."

I took six credits (2 courses at 3 credits per course) as part of my environmental engineering minor -- and this is a snippet that I remember. Plus this was "filler" stuff after the Haitian quake.

[wordpix]

23. obviously it's natural there is oil in the Gulf but this gusher was caused by BP's cutting corners

and Halliburton's

[FBI_Un_Sub]

41. Query

Are you talking about the gusher at the drill site or the (numerous) oil leaks about the Gulf? I was talking about the numerous leaks about the gulf.

[stuart68]

72. Hate to argue

But this ain't Halliburton. This is caused by BP forcing trans ocean to push the drill faster, which causes problems in the well and creates cracking. This is also MMS approving BP' request for change in a record 5 minutes (ie, no review).

[icnorth]

87. Ah yes, Halliburton; where have we heard that

name before?

Snip:

Investigators delving into the possible cause of the massive gulf oil spill are focusing on the role of Houston-based Halliburton Co., the giant energy services company, which was responsible for cementing the drill into place below the water. The company acknowledged Friday that it had completed the final cementing of the oil well and pipe just 20 hours before the blowout last week.
In a letter to to Halliburton Chief Executive David J. Lesar on Friday, Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Beverly Hills) chairman of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, and Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), chairman of the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, called on Halliburton officials to provide all documents relating to "the possibility or risk of an explosion or blowout at the Deepwater Horizon rig and the status, adequacy, quality, monitoring, and inspection of the cementing work" by May 7.
In a statement Friday, Halliburton said "it is premature and irresponsible to speculate on any specific causal issues." The company had four employees stationed on the rig at the time of the accident, all of whom were rescued by the Coast Guard. "Halliburton had completed the cementing of the final production casing string in accordance with the well design," it said. "The cement slurry design was consistent with that utilized in other similar applications.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/04/gulf-oil-spill-the-halliburton-connection.html

Snip

...Transocean Ltd., owner of the Deepwater Horizon, has recruited Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, while Halliburton Co., which performed work on the oil well at the bottom of the ocean, has hired Patton Boggs. Jeffrey Turner, a partner at Patton Boggs, has experience representing other companies under investigation by the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which may conduct its own investigation into the disaster.

Since the April 20 accident that has spilled millions of gallons of oil into the gulf, Halliburton has ramped up its campaign contributions to key lawmakers. The company donated $17,000 in May, including donations to seven members of Congress who serve on committees that are likely to examine the oil spill.

http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNews/BP_Halliburton_and_Transocean_Lawyer_Up_100607

[stuart68]

127. So what does this mean ?

They were present and their role will be investigated - go figure. Not sure what your point is.

[icnorth]

130. You state in your post...

...this ain't Halliburton. This is caused by BP forcing trans ocean to push the drill faster, which causes problems in the well and creates cracking

We don't know the failure was caused by B.P.'s pressure on Trans Ocean for an accelerated drilling procedure. In recent hearings the finger has also been pointed at Halliburton by Trans Ocean. The cement slurry Halliburton was pumping into the hole a few hours prior to the explosion may have been at fault which is one of the accusations made by Trans Ocean during Senate and other State hearings.

The point is we simply don't know the root cause of the explosion. What we do know is the public record of Halliburton and their recent ramp up of campaign contributions especially to committee members of Congress likely to examine the spill. That is at the very least unethical but it is a part of Halliburton's decades long modus operand. B.P and Halliburto two faces on the same coin.

[Catherina]

25. Why are you screaming? That is so rude n/t

[Obamanaut]

29. Does it take a larger font to make your point? If so, you might consider

strengthening your argument.

[FBI_Un_Sub]

46. You might want to check out

An Introduction to Economic Geology and Its Environmental Impact by Anthony M. Evans which covers these topics and has a lot of references and footnotes. Very readable and concise. I have a copy.

I am not a geologist -- just a few courses in my grad program -- so I am not going to risk misleading by "strengthening" any arguments.

[Obamanaut]

53. Good for you. nt

[tabasco]

47. LOL.

This is not NATURAL, GENIUS

[Obamanaut]

54. +1 nt

[nashville_brook]

57. precisely.

[nashville_brook]

58. precisely.

[demwing]

62. What is your malfunction? Did you just NOT read the post?

The poster was referring to the small cracks in the ocean floor through which additional oil is leaking. Not the damaged well. This was SO clear that I cannot fathom how you missed it.

If you doubt this, jump back to post 46, the poster clarifies the point. Too bad you blindly jumped in and rudely insulted someone with your "Get A Brain Moran" response.

[Caretha]

63. You rock

some people need to be drawn a picture....you did precisely that. Good on you.

[demwing]

92. Is everyone taking crazy pills?

Did you ALL not read the post, and just fling yourselves at the keyboard in a rush to jerk knees?

[obxhead]

64. Thanks for screaming that oil industry talking point.

It's not ours and even if it is ours, it's natural. :eyes:

[Javaman]

74. You may want to stop huffing gulf oil fumes...

It's making you type large and spout off insane claims.

And claiming that you only have a few credits in an area you basically know nothing about, doesn't help your case.

Put the mouse down and step away from the computer.

[FBI_Un_Sub]

78. OK

Check out this DU thread BP relief well draws fears: Experts say effort faces similiar risks that caused original blow out. That's what I was approaching --- not the poli sci side.

[FBI_Un_Sub]

123. Check this out

DU:Oil has been leaking daily since Hurricane Ivan hit in 2004 causing an undersea mudslide

[Karmadillo]

21. Can't be true. Our government would tell us if it were so. Transparency, etc. That's

why we gave the Democrats the White House and the Congress.

[CLANG]

65. !

:rofl: :cry: :rofl: :cry: :rofl: :cry: :rofl: :cry:

[polichick]

135. You forgot the "sarcasm" tag, right? nt

[undergroundpanther]

24. Voc's will increase as more oil floods the gulf and seas

http://kyotoobserver.vox.com/library/post/blowoutbloginfo-toxic-gases-continue-to-increase-in-gulf-air.html

http://www.wacktrap.com/environment/oil-spills/bp-oil-spill-fishermen-drop-flies-nasa-satellites-show-voc

[earthboundmisfit]

26. I wonder if President Obama will talk about this

in his address Tuesday night...

[wordpix]

32. why not? Bill Nelson did

[Odin2005]

27. Aw, SHIT!

:(

[Taverner]

28. Aw SHIT indeed

[BeFree]

38. So

I am looking at the videos of the BOP and the seafloor, and I see no evidence of any leaks at the base of the BOP or on the sea floor.

[Catherina]

40. You're looking where BP wants you to look

[dixiegrrrrl]

39. Assuming worst case scenario, what outcomes to the planet

can happen with even 200 billion barrels of oil ( and I think it is more )
filling the Gulf and ocean ???
Besides the obvious of no sea life, no oxygen in the water.

[Gin]

43. dear god.....what have we done? I just feel deep sadness over

this...and to think they are thinking of bombing the seabed to stop this...makes my head spin....sure Russia did it but on land..god help us.

[tavalon]

112. BP committed ecocide

but we are all culpable. If the world didn't have an insatiable appetite for crude, I don't think we would be deep water drilling. It's way past time to get off the oily teat.

[Poboy]

42. It could get even worse if this is true...

Gulf's Evolution Makes the Shakes









View Enlargement of Rift Zone Map
Graphics courtesy of Jack Reed
The New Madrid seismic zone in Missouri has long intrigued scientists because, according to conventional geologic theory, large earthquakes clustered in a tectonically quiet region are difficult to understand.

But at least one AAPG member is challenging the crowd.

New Orleans independent geologist Jack M. Reed believes the origin of the earthquakes lies beneath the Gulf of Mexico.

That's not all.

Reed, a retired Texaco geologist-geophysicist who has been studying the region's geology for over 40 years, says the accepted theory of a quiet geologic evolution of the Gulf of Mexico Basin is fundamentally flawed and needs to be revised.

According to him, the Gulf was and is tectonically active -- and it is the likely origin for not only the New Madrid seismic activity, but also for the Middleton Place-Summerville seismic zone near Charleston, S.C.

"For all the years I have worked the Gulf of Mexico Basin I have been forced to accept the 'passive' Gulf formation theory, which holds that the only movement in the basin is updip sedimentary loading that moved the salt southward," Reed said. "But there is little evidence to support this theory, and it doesn't fit what is observed geologically or geophysically.

"As Hugh Wilson said (1993), 'It would be geologically unusual for such a large basin as the Gulf of Mexico to remain almost tectonically undisturbed for 170 million years while major orogenic disturbances repeatedly struck bordering areas.'"

Reed, over the years, has gathered evidence that supports plate motion in the Gulf basin. Thick salt and sedimentary sequences in the basin mask this tectonic motion, but there is enough basin and peripheral evidence to show plate readjustment is occurring -- evidence, he says, in the form of volcanics, earthquakes and rift zones that are accompanied by magnetic, refraction, seismic and gravity data.
Questions? Answers!

One piece of this evidence, according to Reed, is the apparent connection of the New Madrid seismic zone with the Gulf rift features to the south.

"This northeast trending earthquake zone appears to connect with the northeast trending Monroe Uplift, the LaSalle Arch and, possibly, to an active seismic zone located in and around Sabine Lake on the Texas-Louisiana border," he said.

MORE-
http://www.aapg.org/explorer/2002/11nov/rift_zone.cfm

[Trillo]

48. Don't forget to tell your loved ones how much you love them!

All we ever had was right now, this very moment. Yesterday is gone, and tomorrow hasn't yet arrived.

While it's a good bet that tomorrow will arrive, it is never guaranteed, and thus is merely a bet, a chance. For each animal that died, their tomorrow never came, though it did arrive for all those still alive.

Thus, love each other today as much as you can.

[Earthshield]

70. Blessings

[Are_grits_groceries]

49. Here is an explanation of the problem that I put together:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8519473

I needed to understand it myself.

If the casing is leaking a lot, it will probably continue to deteriorate as time passes. The relief wells are needed, but they could be a double edged sword. By drilling in the area, they may add to the cracks that reach the surface and make the network of them larger. More cracks and more oil.

[chill_wind]

86. Thank you for that link, grits.

I just saw that for the first time. You've organized an amazing amount of information to make it more understandable. You're a wonderful teacher!

[defendandprotect]

55. Kick --

[earth mom]

56. We are so totally screwed!

Sorry mother earth! :cry:

[BrklynLiberal]

61. All worst possible scenarios are becoming reality.

[carlyhippy]

67. I figured it was going to happen

The explosion probably shook all the seabed around the rig and loosened the pipeline. that mud and cement pumped down it probably made it worse. Very very very sad, our poor Mother Earth.

[kirby]

71. I do not consider the source credible...

This blogger knows very little of what he posts on his blog and is the first to admit it. He loves to post anything--the more sensational the better.

[MilesColtrane]

103. Explosions? Under water?

Still don't know what he's referring to there.

[Yeahyeah]

73. Could be a monster clawing it's way out from down there.

If so,we are screwed.No telling how screwed,but very screwed.

[Javaman]

76. I would welcome it if it were a monster.

I would feed the BP execs.

[Jamastiene]

80. Holy Fucking Shit!!!

It just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.

[orbitalman]

89. Ditto. nt

[Imagevision]

84. So ultimately the Gulf ocean floor bed will explode like a volcano erupts...

[eowyn_of_rohan]

97. What have they drilled into?

Scared silly this morning from googling this topic...

[Raine]

85. Yikes no telling what other environmental

disasters this will set off. :scared:

[Joanne98]

94. I posted that in videos for ya.

[tbredbeck]

96. Horse Dookie.

People need to think a little more before digesting some of these things. All this talk about seafloor collapse and doomsday is beyond rational. Even if there is some damage to the casing, which is possible, or if there are other leaks below the BOP, which is possible, the relief well will eventually stop all of that. I doubt they'll get it done in August like they're claiming, but eventually it will be shut down.

This is not the end of the world. It is an environmental fuckup of epic proportions, but not the end of life on earth as we know it.

There will be no tsunami. It's not draining a cave. The reservoir this oil is coming from is not going to collapse anymore than every other reservoir produced in the gulf today. The only difference between this well and every other well in the Gulf of Mexico is that this well isn't hooked into a production system, it's gushing into the seawater.

[Catherina]

98. Welcome to DU Tony n/t

[Raster]

100. Horse dookie right back at ya! You no more know what you're talking about than the rest.

[tbredbeck]

117. Damn, wasted all that time in grad school.

[ooglymoogly]

101. And now a word from our own Tokyo Rose, aka Pollyanna.

Talking points and propaganda at the ready.

[tbredbeck]

116. talking points?

Those weren't talking points, they were facts. There is a ton of bullshit out there, but drink it on up if you want. Or you can get a high school geology textbook, but that's probably too much work for you.

The whole thing is bad enough without whacked up conspiracy theories.

[Shining Jack]

104. People need to think a little more before rushing to the lifeboats.

All this talk about an iceberg being dangerous for our ship is beyond rational.
Even if there is some damage to the hull,which is possible,or if there are other leaks below the waterline,which is possible,the watertight compartments doors will eventually stop all of that.

- Edward Smith,Captain of the unsinkable ship.

[tbredbeck]

118. oh, clever!

[Shining Jack]

137. Why, thank you !

:P

[WinkyDink]

124. Love the post, hate the no-space around commas. :-)

[ooglymoogly]

143. Cogent and wise recap of history. nt

[jeanpalmer]

131. Reputable scientists have projected

a worst case scenario of this thing gushing for >10 years. That's pretty doomsday, in terms of the welfare of the Gulf. But nothing can be ruled out. They took their chances when they drilled, and lost. Could happen again. It's a matter of probabilities. Very little can be ruled out.

[tbredbeck]

134. very unlikely

The scenario of this going for 10 years is highly unlikely. Even if they didn't plug it they would come up with a better containment system, which is something they should have had already available.

[Raster]

140. You hope the scenario of this going for 10 years or more is unlikely. You hope, my oily friend.

BP--and the deepwater drilling community--all profess they are in uncharted waters, and that the technologies to handle the worse-case scenarios do not yet exist. It is "unfortunate" that we are in one of those worst-case scenarios, perhaps THE worst. We all hope that something will be done quickly. However, BP alone may not have the scientific prowess to invent and implement a more efficient containment system. This accident has exposed the greasy underbelly of offshore drilling: accidents are relatively frequent and clean-up technologies are most likely inadequate, and worst-of-all, companies like BP and Transocean are in the drilling business to make a profit. Environmental safety expense will always take a backseat to shareholder dividends.

[tbredbeck]

141. I pretty much agree with you

I'm in the industry, but I completely support the moratorium on deepwater drilling for the reasons you just mentioned. Clearly the ability of industry to stop something like this is inadequate.

I base the statement that 10 years is unlikely on the fact that relief wells, while clumsy, eventually will work.

[Raster]

145. I figured you were in the industry ("my oily friend"), and damn, I hope to hell something

eventually works, and the sooner the better.

[lonestarnot]

105. and they will never get it plugged.

[KansasVoter]

107. ????? Why is this not on CNN or MSNBC or NYTimes? Is it 100% legit?

[pipi_k]

113. That's what I want to know

If true, it would be like, the biggest BREAKING NEWS!!! flash of all time.

[KansasVoter]

115. Thank you!! People here tend to panic very easily!

[pipi_k]

121. Sometimes I just never know

what, or how much, to believe from what I read here.

Seems like only yesterday that the entire world was on the brink of disaster and starvation from that volcano in Iceland, judging from some of the Chicken Little "The Sky Is Falling!!!!" threads/posts.


OK, so like now...I see this thread about a secondary crack spewing even more oil, then I Google and find some nutcase going on about how the oil coming out might not be the millions-of-years-old type, but another type that's apparently created out of methane and some other crap, and how it could conceivably go on FOREVER!!! and I'm all like, damn...that's some pretty scary news, how come if this random guy on the internet knows all that shit, the news outlets haven't picked up on it, and we're not hearing 24/7 reports of how we're all gonna die...

and so forth.

I mean, there's nothing the news outlets love better than a good disaster but we're not hearing anything about this seabed crack that could conceivably kill every living thing on earth.

I hate being a cynic, but geez...sometimes....

[KansasVoter]

126. LOL.....so true. People tend to react and not wait on facts. More fun I guess! n/t

[JuniperLea]

132. Since when is death by corporate greed ever made public in BREAKING NEWS?

We rarely hear the truth in "the news" breaking or otherwise.

The fact is this information has been out there since the last failed attempt to cap the well... it made things worse, just like they said it might.

[pipi_k]

136. Well, the Enron guys got a pretty good grilling, as I recall...

And we just saw Toyota get raked over the coals not that long ago.

The tobacco industry got blasted at one time for manipulating the nicotine levels in cigarettes.

Pharmaceutical companies, for selling drugs/medicines that can, or have, caused death.


Those are some I recall on the spur of the moment.


Corporate greed is not immune from people eventually discovering, and reporting on, the truth.

[Hugabear]

139. Because it's a massive cover-up. Obama is part of it. This brave blogger exposes all!

This guy has dozens upon dozens of blogs posted. They must be true.

[profgoose]

114. The Oil Drum: Statistics on Relief Wells (Drill Another Please), etc.

I thought I'd post these in here if anyone's interested. :)

BP's Deepwater Oil Spill: How Many Relief Wells are REALLY Necessary? (A: More than two.)

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6573

BP's Deepwater Oil Spill - Impacts of Halting Work on 33 Exploratory Wells in the Deepwater GOM and Open Thread

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6595

BP's Deepwater Oil Spill - the Problem of Cleaning Up Marshes - and Open Thread

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6594

Belief Systems at a Turning Point?

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6591

[Gin]

122. is the TOD site down or is it my computer?

[Gin]

125. never mind...it's back up

[jeanpalmer]

133. One of the few times I can agree with

Drill baby drill.

[polichick]

128. Mike Papantonio alluded to this on Ed's show a few minutes ago...

No wonder Bill Nelson has been so freaked out.

[MoonRiver]

129. Gulf Coast = a new Dead Sea

:cry::cry::cry:

[IDemo]

147. If this thing were truly to gush unabated for 10 years,

or even 10 months, it may well become Earth's oceans = new Dead Sea.