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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:05 PM
Original message
Beyond Words


I was preparing another in the series of cups of coffee required to continue to remain awake and mildly alert for days on end, when a man walked over and took a seat at the table I was at. Unlike the other strangers in the room, he did not acknowledge my presence. So, I attempted to ignore him. But after a moment, I saw that tears were welling in his eyes, and then running down his cheeks.

In American culture, 60-ish year old men do not weep in public. Nor do other men attempt to console those who do. I usually am able to come up with words, but at this point, last week, I was not able to. So I walked around the table, and placed my hand on his shoulder. He wept openly, and thanked me.

“This is a tough place to be,” I said. We were in a “family room” on the floor of a hospital where patients were being treated for cancer. He nodded. “We're all here together,” I added, unsure if I was making any sense or not. He thanked me again, as a couple women came over and began talking with the man.

I left the room, and indeed, the hospital, at that point. I was drained. I haven't shared that story in the five days since, but I am now, for a reason. I've tried to occupy my mind with “other things” in the past couple of days, in part by reading this forum, and have noted a number of discussions about what motivates people to continue to participate in grass roots political activities these days. So I tell about this brief experience with a stranger, in order to say this: never forget your sense of humanity. Never let your sense of compassion wither on the vine.

Now, of course, I want to say more.

Often, on this forum, I talk about what people have influenced my thinking, in the context of political/social philosophy. People such as President John F. Kennedy and Senator Robert F.Kennedy. But this evening, I'll focus on three others. Please bear with me, because I think this could be important, at least to a few people here.

I'm a Malcolm X Democrat. In his early adulthood, Malcolm avoided politics. He viewed all politicians in Washington, DC, as the enemy of his people. He liked to say that the republicans were wolves that opposed common folk's interests, and would bite them face-to-face, while democrats were sly foxes, that would grin at you, then bite you from behind. There was a lot of truth there.

But towards the end of his public career, Malcolm became in grass roots political action. He backed local activists, such as the militant Rev. Milton Galamison. The Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party wanted Malcolm to run for Congress, but he passed on the opportunity, convinced that he could do more from the outside.

In time, he hooked up with figures such as Rep. Adam Clayton Powell of Harlem, Charlie Rangel, and attorney/soon-to-be politician Percy Sutton. In my opinion, Malcolm knew that while these men admired him, they were not above using their relationships with him to their own advantage. Equally important, Malcolm did not hesitate to use his relationship with them to further his goals – which were entirely focused upon improving the lot of those common folk. Now, that is the essence of grass roots political activism.

I'm a Martin Luther King Democrat. Early in his public ministry, King was a liberal grass roots political activist. He sought to put an end to Jim Crow segregation. Towards the end of his career, King found that the problems that corrupted the soul of this nation were so extreme, that the solutions would require a major reorganization of our economic, social, and political system. Hence, he was transformed from a liberal to a progressive. The right to enjoy a cup of coffee at a public lunch counter, and to pass it in a public restroom, were no longer his focus; American policy in Watts, Chicago, and Vietnam were.

I'm a Vine Deloria Democrat. The Standing Rock Sioux attorney was a prairie activist. In his classic text on activism, “We Talk, You Listen (New Tribes, New Turf),” Deloria noted that the groups that constituted the “New Left” in 1970 could learn from the example of Native American communities. Three of his most important points were that these groups had the potential to form a powerful confederacy; that the groups needed to view the U.S. Constitution – especially the Bill of Rights – in terms of defining their groups' rights, rather than a limited sense of individual rights; and that these groups should focus their combined energies on breaking the “weak links” within the federal machine.

This forum, like America, can at times be a pretty tough place. We're all in this together. (And obviously, I'm not referring to the jackasses who “visit” to disrupt.) We have a core group of progressives. There are many good liberals. And, in recent times, there's a growing number of moderate-to-conservative registered democrats here. As a result, there are areas where weare going to agree – Dick Cheney was bad – and areas where we disagree. Frequently, from what I see going on, there is an attempt by those who are moderate-to-conservative to take the stance that not only are they correct, but only they are correct. I'm sure that they see things differently. And that's okay.

What's not okay, however, is the growing attempts to discredit and marginalize the democratic left. We are not “whack jobs” nor any of the other insulting names that are too often used by establishment democrats and others to describe us. We are, rather, Malcolm X Democrats, Martin Luther King Democrats, and Vine Deloria Democrats, among other good things. Our time, money and votes are good enough come election season. Our dollars aren't kept in separate accounts, our time spent at campaign headquarters has as many minutes per hour as anyone's, and our votes aren't tallied on separate ballot boxes. Establishment democrats need to respect that, and to respect our humanity.

Thanks,
H2O Man
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alstephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. K & R
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Thanks!
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you. nt
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. And thank you
for all of your contributions to this forum. It is much appreciated!
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
136. THE RIGHT IS WRONG AND THE LEFT IS THE CENTER
MARK MY WORDS. THE COMMERCIAL MEDIA IS THE ENEMY
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #136
159. Yes, yes and YES!
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
:applause:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Thank you.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm an H2O Man Democrat.
Kicked and recommended.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. +1
:thumbsup:
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. +1
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. Wow!
I really appreciate that! Thanks!
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:59 PM
Original message
+1.
K&R.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
147. Bam! K&R, with tremendous gratitude....

:hug:

:patriot:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
161. +1, Me too. nt
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
167. Yep
Me three. :thumbsup:
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
195. +1
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
219. + 2
;) :kick:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. No we are NOT whack jobs
Thank you for saying this so beautifully.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. Thanks.
It's easy to dismiss someone or a group if you call them whack jobs, etc. But I notice that far too few of our more conservative brothers and sisters are willing to discuss and debate the issues on merits today. Let's put the cards on the table, and have an open and respectful conversation. I'm confident that it is liberal and progressive democrats -- and our close associates to the left -- that have the most rational and realistic program.
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Frosty1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well Said!
:applause:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
54. Thanks!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Recommended.
I think what bothers me most is the marginalization plus the "where are we going to go?". Both together are toxic. Both are bullying. And I can't figure out for what end.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
58. Right.
I'm not going to pay a carpenter or plumber to do work on my house, have them use my money to make improvements on their home instead, and then be polite when they come around looking for more money. And there are a heck of a lot of politicians who fit that description. Not a penny from me.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. .
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
59. !
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
Compassion... I'm going to stew on that one. Thank you so much!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
82. It's a human quality
that is rarely found in republican circles.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. k/r
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
83. Thank you!
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. God bless ya H20 man, now you've brought tears to my old eyes, too. K @ whopping R n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
109. Thanks.
I had a feeling as I was writing the OP that it wasn't a description of something that I, alone, felt needed to be said here and now. I'm glad to see that others are thinking the same things.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. K & R & H
H = hug for caring for that stranger aka fellow human being.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. +1. Human empathy goes a long way.
If we are to ultimately save ourselves, it will be through it.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
111. Finding out that
a family member has cancer is a difficult experience. I think that I had a couple of days lead on this gentleman. I'd spent more than a few hours, in the middle of the past couple nights, sitting alone, drinking coffee in that same room. I suspect that I got as much out of our brief contact as he did, though in a slightly different way.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #111
168. I believe you did.
I believe that is the way empathy works, it benefits everyone.

You and your family have mine. :hug:
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Beringia Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #111
190. I hope all is well
I remember a previous post that said you were okay from the tests, benign. I surely hope that is the case. I don't mean to be nosy though.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
18. Eloquent and spot on
Your last line gave me a great earbug: Aretha singing "Respect."

Hmm, does that make me an Aretha Franklin Democrat?

K&R.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
112. Oh, I like that!
An Aretha Franklin Democrat!
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #112
133. The more I think about it
(and since the lyrics have been there all night now, that's a bit) the more it actually does work for me, especially these days.





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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. K & R
As usual, I can add nothing more; you've said it well and completely.

From one not-a-"whack job" to another.

:hug:

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
172. Thanks!
I enjoyed writing the OP. And I'm enjoying the discission that has followed, too.
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Beringia Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. That was nice of you to comfort that man

My father had a few difficult years before he died. And he cried some too my family says, though I was not around that much to see it. Though it was pretty much a mystery why he died, I think part of it was he did not want to grow old, or enter a new phase of his life. He wanted to always be extremely strong and in the lead. I know he is in heaven and has talked to me, though I think there is a rule that you aren't supposed to talk from heaven. He got mad when I told my oldest sister something about him that was kind of judgmental, and I could feel it all the way from heaven.

I appreciate your writing, especially now, as this is a very strange few years in my life.

My father was very kind and used to call people sweetheart, even men sometimes, on his phone calls doing sales.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
173. Thank you.
Stay strong, and keep on fighting the Good Fight.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. What a lovely post
:grouphug:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #21
174. Thank you.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
24.  I am an FDR /Gloria Steinem Democrat. Thank You H20 Man.That needed to be said.
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 07:54 PM by saracat
And thank you for displaying empathy.That quality seems in very short supply these days.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
175. Very good!
We need more FDR/Gloria Steinem Democrats!
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #175
188.  Thank you.I think so too but we don't seem to be fashionable or "in demand" these days!
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 11:59 AM by saracat
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thank you
Needed to be said here, and no one has put it better than you did.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
176. Thanks.
I think that it needs to be said, from time to time.
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
26. Excellent! The truth is a big place and has a lot of room for paradox.
If it can be put into words it is only a part of the Truth. (that paraphrases a Taoist truism) If there was not some truth in the conservative POV, it would not hold any water. Conservatives need and value order. Me, not so much. Not a conservative bone in my body, but I can respect that others come from a different place which can serve society as a whole. I'm on the far end of the liberal spectrum. This POV also serves society as a whole.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
178. Right.
There are benefits to order. However, I inhabit disorder .... or disorder inhabits me. (I'm not even sure if I said that in the right order.)
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #178
194. LOL!
Yeah, I relate. There may be societal benefits to order, but I am a living experiment in chaos theory! :rofl:
:hi:
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. Very well said and given the environment, well timed
:applause:
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5X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. So very well said. As usual. k and r. n/t
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
29. I'll say this:
...if the Democratic left were generally half as eloquent as you, the power in DC would reside there -- and I'd line up behind it gladly.

Well done.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
201. Precisely.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
30. "growing attempts to discredit and marginalize the democratic left"
AMEN! Your words:

"Frequently, from what I see going on, there is an attempt by those who are moderate-to-conservative to take the stance that not only are they correct, but only they are correct. I'm sure that they see things differently. And that's okay.

What's not okay, however, is the growing attempts to discredit and marginalize the democratic left. We are not “whack jobs” nor any of the other insulting names that are too often used by establishment democrats and others to describe us. We are, rather, Malcolm X Democrats, Martin Luther King Democrats, and Vine Deloria Democrats, among other good things. Our time, money and votes are good enough come election season. Our dollars aren't kept in separate accounts, our time spent at campaign headquarters has as many minutes per hour as anyone's, and our votes aren't tallied on separate ballot boxes. Establishment democrats need to respect that, and to respect our humanity."

I could not have said it better. It is a real danger.

Thanks H2O Man


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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
31. Cannot recommend strongly enough
After a week of denigrating, personally insulting meta threads, here finally is one that is thoughtful, eloquent, and connected to a common political heritage that has been the great engine of American progress for the past fifty years.

Thank you.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
32. Beautiful post! Thank you! nt
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BuelahWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
33. Beautiful!
This liberal thanks you! :hi:
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
34. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Your words stirred up some 50 years of memories--in a good way. K & R
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. Awesome. Thanks. n/t
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
37. Well
Sometimes the establishment Dems are right.

A few times, not many.

The reason I participate in democracy are twofold. One, I enjoy it. I love listening to people and talking to them.

Two, the greatest joy in my life has been to see good things get done for the greatest mass of people, and activists, especially those on our side, have made lots of good things happen for great masses of people.

Being that the great masses of people are constantly oppressed and held down, our work shall never end. So it behooves us not to burn out. Eh?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
38. "The only way to comfort a grieving person is to step into their grief and weep with them."
Manas Buthelezi, Lutheran Bishop of South Africa
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
65. The "hand and touch" of reassurance......more than words. n't
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #38
127. Such a beautiful sentiment and quite true. nt
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MerryBlooms Donating Member (940 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
39. We're nothing without empathy
I was in a similar waiting room 8+ years ago when I received ungodly news of my husband. There was no comforting hand, no glance of understanding, no nothing ... just a vast emptiness of what must of been hell. I'm grateful you were there to fill that void for someone. Bless you.

I'm hard left, always have been, always will be, but I hold no animosity for those even further left or less than. I truly do feel a sense of connection ... love ... oneness ... even though there are some days I want to reach through the computer screen and smack someone. lol


Those of us on the left tend to be humane. We are repulsed at man's inhumanity and strive to uplift those who have been damaged by our system. We will win.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #39
162. According to Glenn Beck
empathy is not a good thing.


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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
40. Wow H2O Man, Great post.
As has been said by someone notable yet forgotten in my mind: You are part of the solution or you are part of the problem. You, my fried, are a definitive part of the solution. Thank you for your post. It goes a long way in easing the disputes of this forum.

Very well said.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
William Z. Foster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. excellent post
Good work. Thanks.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Thank you. I'm glad someone read it.
I carry my little flint with me at all times. ;)
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Wow again!!!
Thank you for that post scarletwoman. I have to tell you, I miss posts like yours and H2O Man's. It has been a hard year. I really appreciate your post.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. Thank you. It's very good to see you around.
Sending all good wishes to you.

Peace,
sw
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #52
75. I'll be around
until I'm not!:hi:
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. Well, apparently I may not be for much longer.
You'll notice that my post got deleted.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. I thought you
raised interesting points. In my opinion, it is important for the progressive left to support those candidates that support our values. People may have differing opinions on how many candidates meet this standard. Support those who, as an individual, you are comfortable supporting.

Frequently, grass roots democratic activists find more local and state politicians who are worthy of supporting, than national candidates. I think it's a valid way to try to rebuild the party, and to exercise our influence, by focusing our support on their campaigns. Malcolm did just that.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #81
90. Thank you. I'm glad to know you read my post.
I'll still vote, and if I can't in good conscience support a candidate who's on the ballot I'll write someone in. Because I still want to be counted as a VOTER.

But my larger point was that if the Left truly wants to accomplish the kinds of changes that MLK was talking about, our activism has to move BEYOND merely soliciting votes in elections.

This country badly needs a strong narrative from the Left, a whole new framing of the issues that effect everyone. Confining ourselves to electoral partisan activism is not enough -- not only not enough, but counter-productive in terms of promoting serious fundamental changes in the System.

There's a country full of angry people -- ordinary people who know damn well that they're being screwed, but the only answers they're getting are the lies and distortions of the right. Leftists need to be out there in the midst of the anger telling the people the truth about how and why and by whom they're getting screwed.

Malcolm didn't confine himself to electoral politics, it was just one of tools he used.

Thanks again for responding,
sw
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #90
105. There was a point
in 1968 when some progressive democrats raised the possibility of King running on an anti-war ticket with Senator Kennedy. It's worth noting that RFK started as a conservative democrat; became "liberal" starting in the Cuban Missile Crisis and especially after Dallas; and was transformed into a progressive in the last year of his life. He challenged a sitting democratic president, an action that offended many moderate-to-conservative democrats in his day (and no doubt would upset some DUers today).
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. Goddamn!
Yours was a solid, positive post.

Fuck it. Be well!
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. well spoken
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Thank you.
Best wishes,
sw
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
42. Thankful that you are here with us.
Your presence in our midst is precious gift and I am still here because you are here. I often look for you in my daily visits to this place. I have lost many of my favorite people and I have been always relieved to find your name on the page.

Thank you so much, H2O Man. I am still hopeful that Grassroots Democracy is possible on this land - our beautiful Turtle Island.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
44. H2O Man thank you for being compassionate!
Thank you for speaking the truth!

MadMaddie
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
45. right on
Thank you!
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
48. Thanks, H20 Man. Rec.
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
50. Yep! nt
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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
51. Bless you, friend. nt
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
53. From Your Lips to God"s Ears...I know this is offensive to other DU'ers who are Atheists,
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 09:16 PM by KoKo
Libertarians and others who seem to be the majority.

I wonder sometimes about the "Wisdom of Elders" who are stealing their "Future."

A visit to a hospital room....does put things in perspective. But, so many are alien to experience of "Family, Brethren, Commonality of the Human Experience" these days.

There is little "commonality of experience" here in today's AMERICA.

So a "Malcolm X" Dem or a "Martin Luther Dem" or a "JFK...HOPE FOR DEMOCRATS" seems to be a long ago trashed concept distorted by years of trashing on "Discovery Channel" or the "History Channel" and so we have a much mis-represented distortionist view of hero's of "TIMES GONE BY" to a very Jaded Generation who has not seen anything that would give them hope ever of anything to believe in.

I THANK YOU FOR TRYING.. Always eloquent... One must have hope that some perspective can break through in these times that none of us ever could believe would be "times a'coming" that would not see light beyond the darkness and not be able to realize that dark times have come many times before and that there must be always that hope for light that does break through.

Sorry for being esoteric....vague... I don't have much else to be these days...when one fears speaking for threat of the hammer but still hopes for avoidance.

Peace!
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
56. When I grow up I want to be a H20 Man Democrat


We are all allies.

Ironically what seperates is as big as the dot in the picture.

Differences in strategy and tactics.

All more or less frustrated that real policy will not be changed because the super majority requirement of the Senate has been exaccerbated by increasing migration from the rural areas and doubled up by the relatively recent use of the filibuster to stop legislation. We are shackled with a super super super majority requirement to pass legislation in a country that goes to war to spread "democracy" where such simple principles as "majority vote" is called "jamming it through" when legislation gets 60% of the votes from representatives representing states with 75% of the country's population. Its a miracle that we haven't all lost our minds and become 'whack jobs'.

That unrepresentative body once agreed to rules that would stop legislation if representatives from 33% of the population (51% of the states) voted no. Now with the filubster legislation can be stopped with the representatives of the 20 smallest states. These 20 states have a smaller population than California and account for 17% of the population.

We become unhinged on whether we should fight within this restrictive system or confront it more aggresively. On policy we agree. We stand with Malcolm and Martin. Hell I would be satisfied with the kind of change Teddy Roosevelt was able to pass.

Namaste
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
57. K&R
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johnnyplankton Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
60. Sometimes the pettiness drives me off the page
Great post. I'm getting tired of fighting an uphill battle against the corporations, I don't want to fight with folks on my own side. Sometimes continued faith requires a sign, and I need one soon.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
61. Mr. Waterman, you were the person that convinced me that Obama was worth taking a look at
...back when I was still supporting Hillary. In fact, you are the only person who's opinion I would consider when making such a decision. I thought you were going to say you were an Obama Democrat because I saw many of the same arguments made in that post back in 2008 that convinced me that Obama was the answer we needed. Are you an Obama Democrat?
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Why does it matter?
Is this some sort of allegiance test for you?
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Are you trying to silence me?
I wasn't asking you.
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Why do you care though?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #67
77. No problem.
Although I did not -- and do not -- intend for this to be an OP/thread to discuss Obama up or down, I think that the question is valid. I spent a heck of a lot of time campaigning in '08, and definitely for Obama. In "real life," I got a lot of people to vote for him on Election Day. I take this person's word that I influenced some people on DU, as well.

During the primary, I favored Obama over Clinton, because I believed that he had more potential to "good" -- for lack of a better word --than any of the other candidates, including Senator Clinton. I believed then, as I do now, that his style of leadership provided a greater chance for accomplishing that good than any of the others. And, without question, I supported him in the general election.

At the same time, during both the primary and general election seasons, I stated numerous times on this forum that I was convinced that the liberal-progressive wing of the Democratic Party would need to coordinate pressure on him in areas such as the US occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq. I think that progressives in the party have remained active on these issues. I've seen too many liberals take the position that because we are "there," we need to reach some undefined point before leaving. I think this helps to illustrate the vacuum that was left after the election -- when a great energy force evaporated, and a negative force moved in.

Our federal government is a corporation. Wishing it were not so does not change that reality. Hence, if Obama had been elected to the office as President of McDonalds, that corporation will stillserve the same basic menu. So, when we read about a trillion dollars of "resources" in Afghanistan, it should not be surprising that McAmerica is intent upon accessing those resources. By force, if necessary.

Am I an Obama Democrat? Fair question. I think that equally important questions are is Obama a Malcolm X Democrat? A Martin Luther King Democrat? A Vine Deloria Democrat? Was Malcolm correct in his view that he could be far more meaningful in his actions outside of the corporation, than inside?

Again, I worked to get people to vote for Obama. This included many, many non-democrats from the Progressive Left. At this point, I am aware that I could not expect to be taken seriously by these people, should I try to get that same support in 2012. And, while I am not saying what position I might take in 2012, as a Malcolm X Democrat, I am far from satisfied with the current situation, including many of the President's actions. And inactions.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #77
94. Thank you for the detailed response, though I almost missed it
...due to you responding to the person who objected to me even asking the question (isn't that the number one thing that an activist does?)

In 2008, I was so caught up in the Hillary vs. Obama battles that reading your post(s) here suggesting why Obama was the better candidate really caught my attention. I was actually stunned that you took such a position in the candidate battle and even criticized you on occasion for such. But I also read your words (as I always do) and they stuck with me. Even though I had contributed to both candidates and was excited at the prospect of a black President, I never thought Obama had what it took to be President until I read your words. It was easier for me to make the transition after the primaries based at least partially on those words that stuck with me.

Now Obama is President and I read a not-so-subtle post from you here suggesting that there is essentially only one group here at DU that thinks 'only they are correct'. Do you really believe that? Yes, your post starts out with a very touching moment, and there's nobody who doesn't long for the activism of the 60's and 70's, but does sitting at a laptop criticizing people who support that President you so heartily promoted the new definition of activism? One might think so based on the stance you have taken in this thread. I'm used to a lot more reasoning and tact in your threads, whereas this seems a call to the lowest common denominator in many ways. I know I'll be pilloried for posting this, but nobody here is beyond criticism, and my admiration for your writing over the past 5 years proves that I'm didn't just stroll along here to take a pot-shot at you. Are you now taking a stance on who is 'correct' at DU? Is that what you intended when you posted this, because it's clear from the majority of responses that that is the end result. What do you think?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. Stop assuming it's about me
that's extremely insulting and lowers your argument to a personal attack.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. Weren't you the one questioning H2O Man about his loyalties?
Were you not making it about him?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. Are you an Obama Democrat?---you.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #102
114. It was a rhetorical based on my previous arguments
C'mon, please read it for content & try to see what I'm getting at.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #94
101. Again, no problem.
Because I post things that I believe to be true, it follows that I think that I am right. Thus, I tend to think that people who agree with me are right. More, I'd have to question the sincerity of anyone who posts things that they don't believe, and who think that not only is that alright, but that those who agree with their false position are right.

That does not equate with my thinking that I have a monopoly on that which is right, or true, or good. Out behind my house, there is an area of property that you and I could likely agree can and should be called "woods." (I would not be offended, however, if you called it a "forest.") In a sense, I "own" it; in another sense, it "owns" me. Yet that is besides the point. What is important is that there is room in that woods (or forest) for many types of trees. They are distinct. That's a good thing.

It wouldn't be good if one type of tree believed it was the only type of value. The same holds true within the organism that we can agree to call the Democratic Party. There is room for all of us. There is nothing unrealistic about that. However, in this woods/forest/party, certain types of trees are convinced that the others should be not only willing, but indeed obligated, to invest their time, money, and votes for only certain types of trees. I think it is unrealistic to expect this to continue unchallenged.

Are you taking the position that it is the progressives who are attempting to benefit from the time, money, and votes of the moderate-to-conservative democrats? And that progressives are currently in office, ignoring the voices of the moderate-to-conservative democrats? I'd have a great deal of difficulty in believing that this is a valid position. Do you have equal difficulty in believing that progressive democrats feel that they are being asked to invest time, money, and votes for moderate-to-conservative democrats, and being otherwise ignored?
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #101
113. No problem here either.
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 11:38 PM by HughMoran
I was questioning your implication that there is indeed only one type of tree that "believe(s) it (i)s the only type of value." I was questioning your implication that only one type of tree can "obligate" others in any way. Those arguments imply that only one group (using your words), "moderate-to-conservative democrats", thinks they are "the only type of tree of value" and that they can somehow "obligate" others to support their "Democratic" candidates. That requires one-sided reading from where I sit. Best I can tell, every faction here "believe(s) it (i)s the only type of value" and tries to "obligate" others to support their particular candidate (if they have one) or to oppose one they deem as unfit politically.

I am not projecting my view upon you, my view is irrelevant. I really don't want this to be a referendum on the "progressives" versus "moderate-to-conservative democrats" issue (I can do that elsewhere if I choose), what I am doing is questioning you about your objectivity in taking a position on this topic. I don't see this as helpful in resolving the conflicts at DU as they exist today. I assume you will disagree. I will also assume that those 'progressives' (I also consider myself a progressive, have for > 15 years) who share your perspective on this will once again attack me for daring to question the mighty Mr. Waterman. I think you can handle it.







(edit, typo)
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #113
116. Yes.
I can "handle it." There are areas where we agree, and areas where we are bound to disagree. As Malcolm used to say, any time that two people think just alike, it's proof that only one is thinking.

I think I'm right, and I think that you are equally sincere in thinking that you are right. More, I think that others will read commentslike "the Mighty Mr. Waterman," and sincerely think it is proof that you are intent on some type of purity test. Again, I can "handle" purity tests, as I am as pure a Malcolm X Democrat as I am able. I don't fool myself into thinking that I'm a "mighty" or "almighty" Water Man, though. Just a human being.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. OK
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 11:49 PM by HughMoran
That 'mighty' comment was not meant as you have implied & I can't believe you've resorted to using the "purity test" meme, but so be it. I'm disappointed that you essentially resorted to dismissing me, but satisfied at the same time.

:hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. I think that
I spent plenty of time responding to your questions. You brought up the other people's concerns about your comments. I responded to that. If you are offended by that, you own the problem. No offense was intended.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #119
120. Satisfied
Not offended, no worries.
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. The question has a merit - how did we lose "grassroot" Obama? Or did we?
Do we need stronger ground swelling movement to push and support our President to do the right thing? Is he now captured by the machine? Is he safe in White House? Can we retrieve our President?
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William Z. Foster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #68
79. always the case
No social change has ever come from elected officials. Outside pressure from powerful and militant independent groups brings change. That is where the New Deal came from - strong pressure and a serious threat from the left, the real left. Labor advances, workers' rights, Emancipation, the right to vote for women, Civil Rights legislation - all of these came from pressure by very radical and militant outside groups.

We elect the politicians whom we think will be most responsive to pressure. The politician who hears and responds to that pressure is the successful politician. Yet people here argue that we should not pressure the administration, that we should "let them do the job" and "give them a chance" and that pressuring politicians harms them or helps the Republicans. This short circuits the process, forces the country further to the right, gives the Republicans a new lease on life, and dooms the administration to mediocrity and perhaps failure.

Our job is always to stand fast for the so-called "extreme" and uncompromising positions, and to educate, agitate, organize and resist - no matter who is in office. Without that, nothing can happen.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #79
124. I believe Obama would agree with this nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #124
135. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. deleted for duplication
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 09:35 PM by kgnu_fan
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #61
86. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #61
92. What a bizarre response. The OP spilled his guts out, and all you have is a purity test.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. A personality purity test.
Which is even more bizarre.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #93
198. Please, there is no time to discuss this now.
We must assemble on the parade ground in five minutes for the hourly loyalty oath!
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Spheric Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
63. K&R 'Nuff said. /nt
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
66. Thank you, H2O Man

We have lost some valuable progressive voices here due to relentless spamming and insults by a group who refuse to allow any questioning or criticism of this Administration and it's policies.

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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
70. Thanks for saying it so well, H20 Man
It's amazing that those of us on the left have to defend ourselves, especially here, but I guess that's the new reality in which we find ourselves. Thanks for stating our case.

:grouphug:

K&R
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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
71. K & R and proud to help.
Your voice is one of, if not the greatest here H20man!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
72. Thank You
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
73. K&R
Great post and great message. You're right, we are in this together.
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tango-tee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
74. Beautifully said, H2O Man!
A big K&R!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
76. Rec'd. Thank you H2O Man. n/t
Edited on Mon Jun-14-10 09:55 PM by Catherina
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
78. Damn straight. nt
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
84. K&R
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
87. Simply awesome...BIG K&R
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
88. K&R. Thank you for posting this.
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Eyerish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
89. That was beautiful...thank you
K&R
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
91. That is a good post. Thank you.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
95. wow, that needed to be said.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
96. Thank You H20 Man
As a teacher of mostly Native American students (Stockbridge-Munsee Mohican), I appreciate your mention of Vine Deloria, and your mention of Native American communities. Aniishik.
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
103. Great!
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
104. But is it wise to be the last group to go crazy? Maybe liberals should start a war, or buy
healthcare from a financial institution, or renew the contract of a contractor who wired the showers to electrocute US servicemen, or find a group of criminals that totally botched their crime and take more money from the victims so the crooks could still get their profit. Things would make more sense then.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
106. You put that so well, H2O Man...
I'm also sorry I missed Scarletwoman's words before (???) someone's shaky hand hit the alert button.

A lot has been said in response here. I have to say as an elected LOCAL official, I believe it's more likely that this is where we hunker down together and move through another of America's tough, tough periods. I need you.

I feel it coming, and I'm so damn glad you guys are here.

MrMickey's "not a whack job" Mom :-)
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
107. Another HOME RUN brother!
What a breath of fresh air you are. Wisdom is not "learned" it is from our anscestors and a selfless life.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
108. My friend
You've outdone yourself.

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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
110. h20 - I hear you but this is a different time - we are not allowed to get angry
at those who oppress us or we will be called radicals, terrorists, liberals or worse. There is barely a man in this country who is willing to take a stand against the oligarchy now. The fight has all been driven out of us. There are no leaders in this world strong enough to stand up against our government.

At one time we could look back on great accomplishments of science and engineering and see roads and power plants and water and infrastructure. And even when we began to realize the consequences of growth we had the courage of our convictions to regulate. And we could go to the doctor and still have money left in the bank. Now suddenly health care is something that belongs only to those who can afford it - a shrinking population.

We have twitter, facebook and iphones as our model of achievement. And we have democratic leadership who pounds the passion and fighting spirit out of anyone who challenges their free market/incentive driven drivel. Instead of using technology to mobilize, march and fight - people use these things to gossip about Lindsey Lohan and surf for porn. And the technology makes us that much easier to control.

We really are dying as a country, as a planet. Perpetual war, a military establishment completely off the rails, we are a virtual police state with cameras that scan our genitals at airports, government spies listening to our phone calls and reading our emails - with the help of AT&T, religious freaks working with fortune 500 to design public policy priorities. And the vast majority of democrats are just fine with it all.

Yes - we are dead. Completely and totally dead. Dead of innovation, ideas, dreams and accomplishments. Passion is dead, principals are dead, morals are dead. Liberals are dead. The media is dead - just bubble headed morons, fake teeth, fake hair, fake breasts, fake face, fake news. And, unfortunately that's what the world wants.

The centrists stand back and in one breath they look at the health reform plan as a crowning achievement, meanwhile doctors fees climb about 20% a year, insurance rates climb 20% a year, deductibles climbing past $5000, and every job that can be outsourced is being outsourced. To the centrist - the world revolves around the purity of financial incentives - you don't commit murder, not because it is wrong, but because there is a financial incentive not to commit murder - lawyers fees, job loss, etc. If you don't punish the non-rich, there will be no incentive to be rich. If you reward the rich, they will serve as role models for the rest of the nation. Polution is a commodity that can be traded on wall street. Like derivatives. The free market is pure and fair.

Both republican and democratic leadership are attacking people for giving a shit and getting angry. And in the face of a crisis unlike anything we've ever experienced (much worse than Katrina) we are told "Come to the Gulf and spend money shopping! There's still some beach that hasn't been poisoned!" The extreme centrist represents a grave danger - a centrist philosophy is meeting quarterly objectives, increasing shareholder value, shape shifting in real-time trying to follow public sentiment (carefully groomed by our right wing corporate media). Today they are for it, tomorrow they're against it, and for it again on Wednesday.

Health care stats show many use pills to suppress the completely normal and natural rage about our state of affairs. We need to stop with the pills. Pills don't change things. Get angry. Very angry. Anger gets things done. Appeasement and cowardice gets us where we are - with a ruling class holding 90% of wealth and 5% of population.

Things are going to get worse in months ahead - much worse. So many out of work, so much infrastructure crumbling. And as we speak the centrists (with Tim Geithner, centrist pin-up boy, leading the charge) are fighting against wall street reform.

We either flush the centrists out of the democratic party or liberals need to stop voting for democrats and start forming our own party.

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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #110
152. + 1
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N_E_1 for Tennis Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #110
154. Well said
K&R for comment.

Anger seems to be my natural state of being lately. Thank you!
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libmom74 Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #110
189. +1000
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #110
205. +1 Well done, please post as an op.
:applause:
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #110
218. We either flush the centrists out ... or liberals need to stop voting for democrats
Good luck. I assure you Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu are not pissing their pants at this prospect.

Action is needed. The centrists have heard empty threats for years.

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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
115. Hands help so much
I remember when I had to call 911 for my father.
He was being moved around the emergency department and they said I could go sit outside his exam room. I had been answering questions (insurance etc.) and I did not know what was wrong but I knew it was serious. I felt like I was at the end of a rope that someone was swinging around.

The technician came out of the exam room and was going to deliver his results somewhere but he stopped and put his hand on my shoulder. He didn't even say anything but that kind gesture got me grounded and oriented again.

I think of that often - it does not take much to be kind and it accomplishes so much.

You did a kind thing for that man.
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proReality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
117. K&R n/t
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
121. Rec 139.
Martin and Malcolm. Me, too. K&R.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-14-10 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
122. Thanks so much for your words
I am especially intrigued with this information:

Deloria noted that the groups that constituted the “New Left” in 1970 could learn from the example of Native American communities. Three of his most important points were that these groups had the potential to form a powerful confederacy; that the groups needed to view the U.S. Constitution – especially the Bill of Rights – in terms of defining their groups' rights, rather than a limited sense of individual rights; and that these groups should focus their combined energies on breaking the “weak links” within the federal machine.

Why do we think so much of individual rights when we are stronger when united? I am interested in learning more about Deloria and the confederacy concept.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
123. Hi, friend. I, too, am an H20 Man democrat. NT
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
125. i sincerely doubt that the democratic party can be salvaged.
i infer from you attaching "democrat" to the name of one of your heroes that you think there is some aspect of that person within the party. there may be people who associate with the democratic party or who vote democratic who are in agreement with you and your heroes. but i do not look at those people as the democratic party. the democratic party machine is the party. all the rest of us are really outside the party. the machine grinds away and misleads, subverts, and betrays, and i honestly don't see how that can change. how about malcolm x independent, or vine deloria independent, or better yet, -progressive? i am of the belief that anything that attaches progressives to the party is counterproductive. appealing to the moderates has historically proven to be useless, here on du, or anywhere else. i can't see how intelligent people can see otherwise.
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keepCAblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
126. I am a Dennis Kucinich Democrat. Thank you. Rec #144 n/t
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
128. K&R nt
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
129. Thank you so much H2O man..on many fronts..thank you for being there for the man in distress..
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 12:21 AM by flyarm
right now my brother is in a cancer ward of a top cancer hospital..tonight I was there and he finished Chemo last week..and tonight he spiked a 103.9 fever..it was hard to watch ..and that is all my sister and I coud do, is watch as the great nurses worked on my brother..My sister and I would have gladly taken his place..it was horrible watching them rush blood to him and other bottles they had to put on him..and all these great nurses did for my brother.
Tears is all we have right now trying to help him survive this...and what seems at times, like worthless words.
When we walk out of my brothers room, we see other family members that have the same fear as we have..and the same heartache...and the same helpless looks on their faces..we recognise their feelings, as we feel the same.

The kindness you showed this man is not lost on me at all..I thank you for reaching out to this man...he will remember you..maybe not your name..but he will remember your touch..and the heartfelt caring you shared with him.

I am a liberal democrat, I have been for my entire adult life,and I guess you could say my entire 59 years..as I was raised by staunch democratic Union parents.

My father, my uncles my brothers and cousins were and are all Union guys..some ran huge northeastern unions..I myself, as well as my husband, have always been union workers..we have all been honorable ..loyal democrats..that have worked for the party and donated liberally to democrats and democratic causes.

But I do believe in keeping our candidates and elected officials honest...and their feet to the fire ..for everyone in the democratic party. Everyone.

I believe in liberals and progressives. I have been enormously angered and insulted by now being called a Retard.

I studied to be a special ed teacher in University.( although I never taught ..I went another direction in life, but special ed was my major with a minor in history) I could not believe anyone in my party or who was representing my party would stoop so low.

I believe in speaking the truth ..no matter how hard it is and no matter the consequences. I feel we will all be judged by history, as well we should be, for being responsible to our constitution and to future generations..that we will leave this nation to. After all , that I believe is our most important responsibility for living in this incredible country.

I thank you H2O man for always having a clear voice and a wonderful respect for your and our responsibility to our nation.

And I thank everyone for standing up for what is right, and for having the guts to stand up when it is not popular ..or easy... even when you are called names and having your loyality to your democratic principles and values questioned.


Fly
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #129
131. Well put. My thoughts are with your brother and your family. nt
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #129
134. Oh flyarm
:hug: to you, your brother and sister.
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woofless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
130. Thank You Brother.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
132. it has been the implication that said progressives are more pure
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 12:50 AM by nofurylike
than those called the pragmatists, that has marginalized - all of us;

the suggestion that letting repukes win in november and '12 would not only be acceptable, but fair PUNISHMENT,

that is "whack job";

the ignorance of civics resulting in talk of (threats of) voting for third parties - or the laziness leading to not doing the HARD WORK to make this a civic structure where multiple parties do not (by DESIGN) favor the elite - that cruelly disrespects those of us who have worked our lives away to sheer exhaustion EKING out all possible progress without the rest of the so-called progressives doing any of that endless grunt-work.

thing is, when we call out the ones threatening us, why do you count yourself in those we are calling out?
are you planning to punish democrats by turning the country back over to rove and mob?
if not, then you are not the one we are threatened and frightened by and furious at.


peace and solidarity

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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
137. Thank you, my friend.
Thank you. Especially for the Vine Deloria reference. Deloria changed my whole understanding about old and 'new' world archaeology - this changed my whole perspective and life! All by best to you, friend.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
138. K & R for your sense of compassion,
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 02:28 AM by chill_wind
your thoughtful perspective, and your manner of putting it forward in such unflinching but beautiful civility. Much admiration and appreciation here. Thank you H2O Man.

edit to add-- how I wish MLK was with us today. I can't think of one greater man, moral leader, and voice of liberal consciousness who has burned the light so brightly on what we should all strive so much more toward, in my lifetime since.
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JeffersonChick Donating Member (338 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
139. I'm a MLK Democrat too - he's my hero :) n/t
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
140. Beautifully said ~
K&R
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
141. K&R
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veness Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
142. Excellent. Thank you H20 Man! n/t
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Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
143. Thank you!
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 03:16 AM by Are_grits_groceries
I am an 'Other Foot' Democrat.
Put the shoe on the other foot and see how it feels. I don't always succeed, but I try.

I get tired of the names I'm called.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
144. Eloquent and moving as usual. Thank you, H20 Man.
For Progressives, humanity is our inducement, our strength.

I don`t know a single Progressive that overlooks torture or makes excuses why a person without health insurance should lose their home because they got sick. I`ll bet most Progressives know how many soldiers have died in Iraq and Afghanistan and what the unemployment numbers are in their state. I`ll be willing to bet Progressives are pained whenever they hear another person was kicked out of the U.S. military because of sexual orientation or a family was discriminated against because of their Muslim faith. Most Progressives I know would not value the CEO of General Motors more than the cleaning person at the local laudromat nor would they value winning at all costs over standing up for principles.

Two or three decades ago the same people supported for standing up for basic Democratic Party principles would today be called "Far Leftists" or "Looney Leftists." That`s how far right the center line has been moved in this party. It`s heartbreaking to those of us that don`t condone the corporate takeover of our party and the resulting debasement of our humanity.
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 04:40 AM
Response to Original message
145. Thank you.
Very well stated as are all of your writings.

May you always have clean air, clean water and good land.
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
146. +1 Careful! You'll make us a stronger, more effictive party!
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shirlden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
148. I am a JFK Democrat
If that makes me a radical lefty........then I proudly claim the title.

How did the Democratic Party move from compassion is good to greed is good? I believe all politics should be based on simple compassion for all humanity and, of course, protection of our home, Mother Earth and all the flora and fauna sharing it with us.

:grouphug:
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
149. Thanks! I needed that.
Particularly here and now.

It's like waking up to the sun breaking through and birds chirping after a long night of sound and fury.

It's a great piece in toto, but the last 3 paragraphs are so restorative to the spirit of anyone who is trying to push from the left to "make them/me" do the right thing legislatively speaking.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
150. You are a DU treasure, my friend. A treasure.

I am a Martin Luther King Democrat. I am a gay man. And I am a proud member of the progressive left.

Thank you, H2O Man!
:kick:

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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
151. Hey, man, I was just thinking about you the other day...
I haven't read anything from you on here for awhile (maybe I just missed it). Thanks for this - I agree with you, by the way.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
153. K&R
simply amazing.

i also enjoyed your discussion with HughMoran.
you never fail to make a concise and relevant point.

thank you so very much.

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N_E_1 for Tennis Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
155. K & R ++++ n/t
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
156. k&r
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Mira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
157. Thank you for your clarity, courage and understanding.
You wrote an important piece that has produced good discussion as well.
K&R
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
158. Beautiful story and thanks for the refresher on some of histories greats.
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 07:57 AM by AnArmyVeteran
I appreciate what you wrote H2O Man. And what a beautiful story of touching that distraught man's life. To be honest it brought back so many memories of the two years I spent helping my little brother but who finally succumbed to lymphoma at the young age of 30.

Most of life's most precious moments are those when simple acts of human kindness and compassion surface and we either reach out or someone reaches us to remind us why we are here.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
160. K&R. Way to say it, H20 Man!
Many of us feel the same.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
163. Incredible post! Thank you so much.
"What's not okay, however, is the growing attempts to discredit and marginalize the democratic left. We are not “whack jobs” nor any of the other insulting names that are too often used by establishment democrats and others to describe us. We are, rather, Malcolm X Democrats, Martin Luther King Democrats, and Vine Deloria Democrats, among other good things. Our time, money and votes are good enough come election season. Our dollars aren't kept in separate accounts, our time spent at campaign headquarters has as many minutes per hour as anyone's, and our votes aren't tallied on separate ballot boxes. Establishment democrats need to respect that, and to respect our humanity."

This paragraph needs close attention paid.

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Iwillnevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
164. Well said!
And somehow I believe there IS crying in baseball!

K&R
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
165. >>What's not okay, however, is the growing attempts to discredit and marginalize the democratic left
Not to mention just telling us to shut up.

Thank you for this post.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
166. k&r for Malcolm X and Vine Deloria. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
169. One day, some will say they are H2O Man Democrats
; )
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
170. "Compassion" - a galaxy of meanings in a single word. Thanks Waterman, for your
wisdom, for your 'laying on of hands' and for asking for r-e-s-p-e-c-t

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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
171. Thank you
I'm one of those who is struggling to stay. It's seemed harder under Obama because I wasn't expecting the sly fox thing. I really do need to read some Malcolm X stuff.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
177. liberal Democrat checking in, kicking and recommending.
:)
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
179. This post made me think
that you are one of our most valuable contributors on this forum!

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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
180. I am so happy to K & R this.
And in the process, I also want to thank the OP and so many others who have tried so to keep the discussion here focused on PRINCIPAL over personality and purity tests.

That includes any number of the recently departed.

I am recc-ing this for them too.


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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
181. So beautifully said
I read this last night, and while I echo your choices, Malcolm and Martin and Vine with great resonance I wanted to add three more, my own.

I'm a Harvey Milk Democrat. I will be myself.
I'm a Jerry Brown Democrat. Jerry was the governor when I was a teenager, and he was among other things, a remarkable role model as a person.
Also, I'm a Jerry Democrat because my father was a Pat Brown Democrat. And more than anything...
I am a 'My Dad Democrat'. I'm pretty much the Democrat he raised me to be, the man he made.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
182. I'm As Liberal, Progressive As One Can Get, But I'm Also A Pragmatist
I would challenge anyone to put their liberal/progressive "bonafides" up against mine, and I'm not just talking ideology, but real world action.

I have no problems with criticism and pressure on the administration from the left. In fact, it's necessary. What I do have a problem with is lies and smears and disinformation from people purportedly on the left that serve no purpose but to give ammunitiion to the real enemies of progress and tear down the best friend the left has ever had in the oval office in generations.

From an ideological perspective, I find areas and issues with which I am unsatisfied with the administration, however, being a pragmatist I realize the real world doesn't and CAN'T always conform to my ideological beliefs. Progress is slow, especially coming on the heels of a decade of egregious irresponsibility and destruction.

We are moving in the correct direction, I wish it were happening faster and more effectively, but reality always has a way of not granting MY wishes.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #182
202. Thank you, Beetwasher. nt
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
183. Great post, but I have one correction I'd like to suggest:
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 11:29 AM by intheflow
You said, "We're all in this together. (And obviously, I'm not referring to the jackasses who “visit” to disrupt.)"

I beg to differ. We are ALL in this together, even the disruptors. They are not "with" us in the sense of being aligned with our ideals and political beliefs, but they are with us on this journey through life, they are with us on this planet and in this damaged and warped political system. The "other" is an illusion. The man you comforted at the hospital could have been a teabagger, you don't know. In a post so filled with compassion and love, I found that one aside to be jarringly out of character with your message.

We are the mirror as well as the face in it.
We are tasting the taste this minute of eternity.
We are pain and what cures pain both.
We are the sweet cold water and the jar that pours.
I want to hold you close like a lute so we can cry out with loving.
You would rather throw stones at a mirror?
I am your mirror, and here are the stones.

~ Rumi


Edited to add: K&R'd, because really, I'm just nitpicking here. It's a beautiful OP.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
184. Unashamed Liberal Democrat here.
Beautifully written.
Thanks.

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."

--- Paul Wellstone


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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
185. Thank you for this post, sir.
Your essays are always worth reading... even the boxing ones (which I kinda don't "get", having trouble comprehending the "sweet science" aspects that many extol.)
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
186. I am a
Bella Abzug, Shirley Chisholm, Gloria Steinem, an unreconstructed Democrat....

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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
187. I am a
Bella Abzug, Shirley Chisholm, Gloria Steinem, an unreconstructed Democrat....
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
191. We are all in this together. Amen.
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LittleGirl Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
192. I'm a new democrat/liberal
so I don't know your history here, as in democratic party here or out there in America. You see, I ignored politics (and I'm 50 so shame on me) until 9/11. Then and only then, did I 'wake up'. I'm sorry that I'm not a very educated Dem (as in knowing your history and all that) but when Nixon said, "I'm not a crook"...I believed that he was indeed, a crook. They must be all crooks, I thought! So when politics came up, I just tuned it out. Politics was not allowed to be discussed in my family and I rarely if ever voted. Imagine that!

9/11 taught me that I was woefully ignorant about politics/world affairs and I needed to pay attention and pronto. So I started the very slow process and I've evolved from thinking I was a conservative to moving further and further left. Turns out, I'm a firmly planted liberal and proud of it. Thanks for the history lesson.

You know...I'll give Obama credit for one thing and that was - it brought me and many others like me, out of the woodwork. I've learned who is conservative in my family and we still can't discuss politics. I think sometimes "They are all crooks!" but I like the guy so it's hard for me to hear the faux spews right-wing rhetoric.

Any history books you might recommend for me or others like me?
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Hun Joro Donating Member (511 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
193. Beautiful and refreshing - thanks.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
196. thanks...
for putting your hand on everyones shoulder H20man-
Somehow you really know how and when to say what i need to hear.

we are all in this together.

:hug:

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StopTheNeoCons Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
197. Awesome, inspiring post, I am with YOU....nt
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
199. Smart, substantive, thoughtful--takes me back to the old days on DU.
K&R
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
200. Great post.
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 02:47 PM by valerief
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
203. I'm an angry democrat,
who has seen the party shift much too far to the right. DLCers and conservative democrats remind me of the GOP in the 60's and 70's. My patience is very limited for the advocates of the status quo.

There is a need for a sea-change if we are to survive.

As always H20Man, thank you for sharing your insights and perspective.
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japple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
204. You know what, H2O Man? You're somethin' else...
Thanks for a great post. You've summed it up nicely.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
206. thanks for this
kick
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
207. Bravo !!! - K & R !!!
:yourock:

:applause:

:loveya:

:hi:
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
208. Excellent post KR
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
209. Well said.
And best wishes.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
210. Thank you for taking the time to write and post this....
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
211. You're a mensch, H2O man.
The very best of men.

:fistbump:
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
212. Hi H20. Good to see you again, though I disagree with much of your post
It's interesting that you characterize Malcolm X as a Democrat. I would say that his anti-government, anti-establishment, "black folks need to completely separate from America" mindset would make him about as independent an independent as an independent can get. :) Some would even say borderline anarchist but Malcolm was way too goddamned smart for that.

Your characterization of MLK as a Dem is interesting to me too. Both parties, Dem and Repub, have desperately tried to claim MLK over the decades. He was certainly a liberal but pragmatic and brilliant to his very core. I could never, EVER see MLK wailing that change did not happen overnight and that "change doesn't happen in increments" the way I see almost constantly in the liberal blogosphere. If anyone in the whole world knew how slow and painful change was, is and can be, it would have been MLK.

Once again, I thank you for a beautifully written and thought-provoking bit of writing even though I disagree with much of it. As an independent myself, I could give less than a dwindling damn whether someone is "left" enough. I only care about individual policies and results. There are several black and Native American posters here on DU and I wondered why none of them seemed to sign on to your OP until I fully read it. It may be that they disagree with your characterizations as well or maybe they just haven't seen it yet. Who knows?? But I appreciate your writing it.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #212
213. Gracious.
I think that what you "read" was a bit different than what I posted. For example, I wrote that I am a Malcolm X Democrat, not that Malcolm himself was a democrat. He had formed an alliance with several democratic politicians, and as I assumed was clear, did so to further his goals while fully aware that those politicians were using him to further their goals. He was an important part of a group that included the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party in 1964; this group of "impatient" democrats were not willing to be marginalized by the powers-that-be. The heads of the MFDP wanted Malcolm to run for national office. This is not speculation on my part -- anyone who is even mildly familiar with Malcolm's public career knows these things. Feel free, however, to disagree.

King was a registered republican in the 1950s, but became a supporter of democratic candidates in the 1960s. In '68, associates (virtually all being democrats) raised the possibility of his running on a ticket, first with RFK, then with Dr. Spock. (A good friend of mine ended up running with Spock.) Unless one refuses to believe the things that King said were representative of his beliefs, and prefers to feel comfortable with a plaster saint and perhaps a "MLK Sale Day!," there is no question that he was advocating a complete change in the form of our economic/political/social system in the final year of his life. More, in response to what I think you were trying to say about King and the pace of change, there is ample evidence that he was not prone to accepting a slow pace -- from his violating a federal court order, to his tense relationships with both the Kennedy and Johnson administrations

A bit surprised to know that someone keeps a racial profile of DUers in mind. Curious, that.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #213
214.  I find that a bit curious as well. I have a hard enough time mistaking gender!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #214
215. It would be
so much easier, if we could have all DUers line up and count off by ones.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #213
220. A "racial profile"?? lol See you just lost me
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 07:29 PM by Number23
I am black and post that frequently. Many other black posters here post that they are black frequently as well. As such, I have magically deduced who the black posters are on this site. That doesn't mean that I've caught everyone but I have a pretty good grasp, including those of us who post in the African American Group even though there are a large number of non-blacks who post there as well.

And I don't think that Malcolm gave one bright, red fig what "party" those black folks he aligned himself with were a part of. He aligned himself with like-minded individuals who were fighting for a common goal. And there is no need for me to "disagree" with your point that he was asked to run for office as a Democrat. You make the point that he declined to do so, which would have been my point as well. Malcolm felt that he didn't need "the system" in order to do the work that he needed to do, which makes it all the more curiouser that you would categorize yourself as a Democrat through the actions that Malcolm took aka a "Malcolm X Democrat" whatever that means. Many of the members of NoI would not have called themselves Democrats if you paid them to as they had vast and legitimate issues with both parties.

And I wasn't "trying" to say anything. I think I was clear in what I said. And I have no idea what your point was in bringing up King's wish for great social and political change in response to what I wrote. I simply see that as him being a revolutionary for black rights and recognizing the near universal upheaval that would have to occur in America before blacks would be treated as equal in this culture. Sorry that you appear to have taken offense to my statement about the black and NA posters. You seem a bit (uncharacteristically) touchy in this thread so I'll leave you to your adulation which seems to be the only thing you're responding well to. Ta, H20.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #220
226. The NOI
did not allow for participation in politics. That, as anyone familiar with Malcolm knows, lead to great tension between Malcolm and the NOI parasites. After Malcolm left the NOI, he was absolutely involved in things political. I've named individuals and groups --all democrats -- that he was closely associated with. I look forward with great anticipation to your listing a couple republicans he had similar associations with. Or, what the heck, if you could list a single one, I'll be surprised.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #226
227. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #226
229. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
216. Nicely done!
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 06:38 PM by Capn Sunshine
One thing I find amusing, and at times annoying, is how everyone at DU is convinced THEY are the ones who are correct.

Frankly, I just want things to be better for my grandkids (if any) and my kids ( ahem, where's those grandkids I was promised?)

I'm sure I know how to get there, but I will listen to reasonable arguments for a different path.

That doesn't make me right or wrong.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
217. Not much wrong here
apart from the point that moderates are the ones doing the my way or the highway shtick I 100% love this OP.

Moderates by definition are not that rigid.

I'm not a moderate, I am way to the left of almost everyone in mainstream politics today, but unlike some others with my views, I recognize that its those in mainstream politics who actually make the calls. Those whose only contribution to the process is to complain are never listened to by anyone.

The three heroes you mentioned above all knew that complaining alone wasn't going to cut it. They all worked with "establishment" democrats to get the changes that we see today.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
221. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
222. K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R!!!
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Loki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
223. I am a Democrat
My parents were Roosevelt Democrats, they were Truman Democrats, union Democrats, civil rights and women's rights Democrats, they were and are common sense Democrats with their roots far back into this country's history and immigrant history, including the American Indian, and I am a compilation of all of those wonderful people who contributed their ideas, hard work and sacrifice to come to where I am today. Like Sam Rayburn said, "I am a Democrat without prefix, without suffix and without apology."
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
224. Error: You can only recommend threads which are started within 24 hrs.
Sure wish I could rec this again and again.

Julie
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Beringia Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
225. I'm a Moose Green
I put the wild animals first. :hi:






A White Moose, really amazing. I am in the process of making a moose mask.


http://www.danielnpaul.com/AlbinoMoose.html



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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
228. Keep it kicked.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
230. Kicking this back up where it belongs.
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
231. Kick back up so that people will think further nt
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
232. My hat is off to you. Thanks, H20. K & R.
At times, I am an Al Sharpton Democrat.

During the 2004 cycle, he had me so often with his deep and eharty vision for America. (I did vote for Kerry, but I will never forget during one of the debates, looking at the navy blue suit that GW Bush wore, and the flag pin in the lapel, and then looking at the navy blue suit that Kerry wore, with the flag pin in the lapel, all I could think, is "Where so they have the Clone Farm for these people?")
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
233. And you speak for me, H20 Man--though far more eloquently tha I could hope...
Don't ever let the sporadic cycles of conflict here drive you away, H20 Man. We need your voice, intelligence, and calming insight.
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