Image riddle for DU: What are these?

[DemoTex]

I know the answer. I deal with this every day at the lookout tower. What are these posts and what do they have to do with the history of the West?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Hmm they look like the mine claim markers

we ran across yesterday

but then again, I am not sure.

[jotsy]

9. Wondered if you were OK after news of So Cal quakes.

As you posted this just 7 minutes ago, I'm gonna guess you're good to go. Glad to know. I thought about paging you in GD, but didn't want get a thread locked for calling out a DU member.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. We are fine

and the two birds SLEPT through it...

I fear they are getting used to them.

Usually after a quake like this I am in mommy mode, hell even the Nanday wants mommy time.

Not a peep from them!

But I am glad we are HERE and not in the back country to be honest.

Oh and thanks for asking...

[DemoTex]

24. First I have heard of a quake

Glad you are OK. I'll have to read some news.

mac

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Happened tonight

and as we were walking on the path yesterday you could see the fault (though this is not the fault that went off tonight)

But according to USGS they felt it that much more stronger in Julian than we did here... though I have to get my art back in place, it did move.

It is probably part of the Eastern Series... (at least I am hoping... if this is a fore shock, oh my)

[jotsy]

27. I shall rest easier then, thanks.

Will hope it rattles less for you.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. My dear DemoTex!

I dunno...Section markers?

Just guessing, really...

How ya doing tonight?

:hi:

[DemoTex]

10. Very close, Peg!

[petronius]

3. I know! I know! They're targets, like every other upright object in the wilderness!

Actually, I do know what they are - section markers from the PLSS...

On edit - Regarding the historical significance, and speaking a bit facetiously, the PLSS is why the western rural landscape looks like a checkerboard, why country roads make right-angle turns in the middle of nowhere, where the "40" comes from in "40 acres and a mule", and why the Reclamation Act and the Homestead Act fixated on 160 acres....

[DemoTex]

19. Eggs-actly!

But you are right on the first blush: if it is stationary, it is fair game (the higher the caliber, the more this axiom applies).

[csziggy]

4. Survey markers - not sure of the real name

But those must be section, township and range numbers on them.

I have no clue what the historical significance is, other than maybe marking the boundaries of the park?

[DemoTex]

15. Yep

The section is the top number (36), then Township & Range. It goes back to the original general land survey of the west. We still use T/R/S for reporting fires. Once we get to "section," we break it down to a quarter section (say, the NW) and a quarter of that quarter (1/16) - say the SW of the NW.

So, a fire along the FS-18 road where the second (?) photo was taken might be reported as positioned at: Township 20 South, Range 13 East, Section 36, SW of the NW. On the radio it would be read as "20/13/36 Southwest of the Northwest - over"

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Interesting

Thanks

[blondeatlast]

25. I remember those from the Kansas countryside. Ah, nostalgia... nt

[csziggy]

28. Growing up the daughter of an engineer and surveyer is educational

My first maps were quadrangle maps - it was harder for me to learn to read regular road maps because there was no topographic data to go by.

Our property is 2N 2E in the N 1/2 of the SE quarter of section 16. I'm not used to seeing township and range numbers as high as you have there, but then the meridian for Florida is not very far away from here.

[DemoTex]

29. Which begs the question: why not standardize?

We report the fires on the T/R/S format. When the USFS fire crews arrive on the scene, the IC (In-Charge) reports the actual location of the fire in his/her size-up in LAT/LON!

[csziggy]

30. I think it will all be moving to Lat/Long

The township range system was great when it was established, but its day has definitely passed. Of course, if it all goes away, those of us doing genealogy will not be able to figure out where our ancestors lived. I spent much of yesterday looking up land patents for ancestors - the "newer" ones (after about 1800) used township and range. The older ones were descriptions using trees and landmarks which are certainly long gone.

Our small coop power company maps their poles and equipment with Lat/Long now. That way if a pole or transformer is reported damaged, the repair crew can pull it up on their database and know exact location as well as the exact replacements to bring to fix it. Even if the report does not pinpoint the exact location, they can figure it out with their database. Now they are even taking photos of the meter locations to add to the database - the camera they use has built in GPS.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. When I did rescue work in Mexico

we used Lat\Long for back country locations.

When we went hiking we were glad the topo had lat\long on it if we needed to ask for the cavalry. Would be bad if we had to, but I am wondering if the volunteer FD would have known what we were talking about, or just go OLD BANNER TOLL ROAD... the map we were using was 7.5 minute USGS sort of standard.

[csziggy]

38. All our topos are upstairs, but I think they do all (and always have had) Lat/Long

But usually I've used them for pretty limited areas - horseback rides, checking local trips, or plotting site locations - so Lat/Long was not all that important to me.

Since GPS has gotten to be useful for civilians, my knees are so bad that I do little of any of those things any more. I do use Lat/Long a lot now for locating places on Google Earth, though.

ETA - Now I am doing a lot of genealogical work and one of the great resources are the Land Patent Office files, which are available online (http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/PatentSearch/Default.asp?). I've been able to verify when ancestors moved to some areas because they either purchased or were awarded land patents, usually for military service - in the Revolution, the Mexican War, or the Civil War.

The older of those patents do not give township and range, but descriptions of the land by landmarks - creeks that have probably moved, trees long dead, etc. So far, I only have three in my files older than 1800 - all the ones after that use township and range. Now I have to locate maps for those states to find where those pieces of land are. That should be the easier part of the deal since the records indicate the issuing office which should let me know what part of the state to search.

[blogslut]

5. Water markers

?

I mean FLOOD markers

[Lasher]

6. Highway markers

Mile posts, I'm guessing. Route 13 East?

[Obamanaut]

7. Look a bit like survey or boundary markers. I've seen similar markings

on concrete markers.

[Psephos]

8. Look like old Public Land Survey System markers. n/t

[DemoTex]

21. Another winner!

Yeppers!

[Cresent City Kid]

12. They don't look like property corners,

The ones I've seen are stone and lower to the ground for easier placement of the rod. I'm guessing that the "S" and the "E" mean south and east respectively, but I'm stumped. Road mileage markers maybe?

[mitchum]

13. Firewood

[DemoTex]

22. No, but that gives me an idea ..

I'll try to get some photos of the public firewood gathering sites. We had a fire at one yesterday. Careless smoking. Small fire - two chains diameter.

[XemaSab]

14. Township and range markers

:)

[DemoTex]

16. 10-4

General Land Survey: Township/Range/Section

[XemaSab]

20. .

:D

[xxqqqzme]

17. Alien landing site markers?

[DemoTex]

23. Could be ..

I never rule anything like that out. Know what I mean, Vern?

[JDPriestly]

31. Snow markers?

[Uben]

32. Grave markers for alpha-numeric cavemen?

Popsicle sticks of the gods?

Fence posts of someone who has a lot of time?

The tip-top of a 500 ft buried wooden obliesk?

Paul Bunyan's scratch-pad?

Scratching posts for very intelligent cats?

Mile-markers on the Chisolm Trail?

Or, maybe it's a marker for the "last place you would ever look".

[Kablooie]

33. They are ancient road markings from when California was part of the Roman empire.

[Greyhound]

34. Monuments? n/t

[RushIsRot]

35. Township 19 South, Range 13 East, Township 20 South, Range 13 East

Homestead boundaries

Corrected typo.

[DemoTex]

40. Very close to the cigar ..

But these markers are on public land (non-homestead). Actually, the marker with a little yellow paint remaining tells the story best.

These markers are found in National Forests that were part of the Public Lands Survey System (PLSS) - mostly western forests. Whenever a FS (Forest Service) road (this was the FS-18) crosses from one section to another, these markers are required.

The yellow marker is at the point FS-18 crosses from section 8 to section 7 in Township 19 South, Range 13 East. A section is one-mile square (usually, but not always), or 640 acres.

Why is this important? We (the lookouts) position the fires by the old system (Township/Range/Section). Then we break down the sections into quarters (NW, NE, SE, SW), and those quarter sections into quarters (NW of the NE, SW of the NW, etc). A 1/16th section is 40 acres (thus, "forty acres and a mule").

It helps the fire crews to know what section they are entering when responding to a smoke report. These posts help (the newbies). The old hands know the forests, oh yes!

[branders seine]

37. section markers

township and range

[spanone]

39. k&r