"Once in a generation" solar storms... and living without electricity.

[Dover]

Here comes the sun...






Once in a generation solar storms could wreak havoc on earth.

The sun waking from a deep sleep may not sound like such a bad thing and years ago it might not have been.

However in today's world reliant on technology for the basics of everyday life, increasing levels of solar activity and the flares from the consequent 'space storm' could wreak complete havoc.

Nasa is telling us to prepare for a once in a generation storm which could result in widespread blackouts and leave us without critical communication signals for considerable periods of time.

The overheating of national power grids, mass disruption of air travel and the complete shut down of electronic items, navigation devices and major satellites are just some of the consequences of the sun reaching its maximum power in only a few years time...cont'd

http://itn.co.uk/3d2774dcc8bc71d9557055e4fca470e2.html


------

Solar storms to erupt soon. What will be the impact on Earth?

Solar storms on their way. Natl Academy of Sciences: "Major solar storm could cause twenty times more economic damage than Hurricane Katrina..."

The sun is about to get a lot more active, which could have ill effects on Earth. So to prepare, top sun scientists met Tuesday to discuss the best ways to protect Earth's satellites and other vital systems from the coming solar storms.

Solar storms occur when sunspots on our star erupt and spew out flumes of charged particles that can damage power systems. The sun's activity typically follows an 11-year cycle, and it looks to be coming out of a slump and gearing up for an active period.

"The sun is waking up from a deep slumber, and in the next few years we expect to see much higher levels of solar activity," said Richard Fisher, head of NASA's Heliophysics Division. "At the same time, our technological society has developed an unprecedented sensitivity to solar storms. The intersection of these two issues is what we're getting together to discuss."

Fisher and other experts met at the Space Weather Enterprise Forum, which took place in Washington, D.C., at the National Press Club.

Bad news for gizmos

People of the 21st century rely on high-tech systems for the basics of daily life. But smart power grids, GPS navigation, air travel, financial services and emergency radio communications can all be knocked out by intense solar activity....cont'd

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/active-sun-solar-storms-100609.html

----

Solar Storms and The Power Grid
http://www.solarstorms.org/Spower.html

NOAA Space Weather Prediction Center
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/SWN/index.html

NASA
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/predict.shtml





COULD YOU LIVE WITHOUT ELECTRICITY?

I assume there are some national emergency plans for such an event,
which is not to say it's something I'd rely on.
However, I would certainly lean toward SOME form of personal preparation
or plan rather than none.
While we have and can, of course, live without electricity we're certainly out of practice and
unprepared. So, here are a few sites that discuss the kind of preparations one might consider.


How To Survive Without Electricity

Situations Where There May Be No Electricity

It's interesting to read that electricity has only been a common household item in the last 50 or so years. Before that, people have survived for ages - so a lack of electricity for any duration of time is something that can be overcome. As human beings, we have had the experience and now have the added help of technological advances to survive without electricity.

In the short term, many of us experience power outages in our homes during the winter seasons where storms take out some local power lines. This might mean we are without power for the best part of a day. In the event of hurricanes, electricity may be cut for a more extended period of time (1-2 weeks). Generally speaking, short term survival can be overcome (with relatively little difficulty, just inconvenience - see below).

But what if some major crisis occurred and left entire countries without electricity for months or even years? Granted, odds are slim, but just what if it happened? Our grandparents and maybe our parents might have some ideas, having possible experienced this during their childhood. The majority of us wouldn't have a clue.

The aim of this hub is to set the scene for a situation where this is no electricity and look at options on how to survive in the short term and long term. Some photos of antique items are also presented, from my grandparents time, with a description of life during a time with no or little electricity. If we lost all electricity forever tomorrow, people now living in third world countries would be the best prepared for survival - they live through this scenario on a daily basis.

cont'd
http://hubpages.com/hub/How-To-Survive-Without-Electricity

--

How To Live Without Electricity
http://www.scribd.com/doc/27544472/How-to-Live-Without-Electricity

--

Questions:

I wonder...are solar panels vulnerable to being knocked out by solar storms? Or is that a truly a good option? And what about electric cars?

[daggahead]

1. There seems to be a correlation between X flares and earthquakes. n/t

[SidDithers]

4. According to whom?...nt

Sid

[montanto]

14. and yet correlation is still not causation.

[KittyWampus]

25. and yet correlation can still be significant regardless of causation.

[Statistical]

2. Yes Solar panels can be damaged by solar storms.

Also if they are connected to the grid (grid tie) the inverters and panels can be destroyed from grid surges.

But more important is water. If there is a massive solar storm and it knocks out the grid fill everything you can with water. Jugs, bathtub, trashcan, etc.

Water pressure is maintained by water towers thus it will work without power but the water tower is continually refilled by massive pumps powered by .... electricity. In any outage lasting more than a couple days the water pressure will be exhausted and then faucets stop working.

For those who have well water investing in a pump which can be either connected to a generator or pumped manually may be even more useful.

[Dover]

6. Thanks for that info. What is the danger for panels NOT connected to the grid?

I can understand the problem if they are connected, but don't understand how panels off the grid would be affected. Do you know of any websites or books that address it?

Thanks again.

[Statistical]

12. PV systems still have wiring.

The geomagnetic induced current (GIC) effect will manifest in the wiring connected to solar panels.
Also the wiring in the entire house will create current and that will flow into the AC side of inverter likely damaging it.

How likely damage is and how extensive the damage depends on the severity and length of the storm.

At a minimum one should have AC side and DC side disconnect switches in a good PV system. Opening those limits wiring attached to the system and thus GIC.

If you had enough warning I would open all breakers the goal would be to isolate your local grid into 4 segments:
grid power
house wiring
AC side of inverter
DC panels

[Dover]

24. thanks for the explanation! n/t

[conscious evolution]

31. In line surge suppressors will also help

isolate a solar system.
Especially with no or little warning of an incoming event.

[FSogol]

3. Why hasn't the WH fixed the Sun yet?

:cry:

[RedCloud]

7. They are waiting for the free market to take care of it!

[sendero]

51. LOL...

... yeppers!

[Rebubula]

9. Good Question

This could be Obama's Katrina!!!

:hide:

[FSogol]

11. We should send some experts to the sun to take a look. I propose chief-know-it-all: James Carville

:shrug:

[krispos42]

23. As long as they go at night

Otherwise they'll get sunburn.

[FSogol]

28. Right, Palin would be another good expert to send. She can see the sun from her house.

;-)

[krispos42]

45. *snort*

:rofl:

[Jawja]

65. Yes, of course,

this will be all Obama's fault and nothing he could say or do will satisfy his critics (GOP and Democrats alike).

[branders seine]

48. According to a White House statement,

only the Sun has the expertise to fix solar flares. We are confident that the Sun will act quickly to prevent undue disruption of the Earth's important communications systems.

[trotsky]

63. Obama had better create a "bullhorn moment," dammit.

I want him shaking his fist up at that yellow orb and swearing we'll fight the solar flares there so we don't have to fight them here.

[SoCalDem]

5. We were without electricity yesterday from 10:41 am to 2:47 pm

don;t know why, but it;s the 2nd time in a few weeks..some dumb-ass probably hit a pole..but it's boring as hell to have no electricity :)

[xchrom]

8. The first thing I think of are people and their medical supplies,

Medications, etc.

Much of that info is computerized now -- and pharmacies --
how will they fill prescriptions?

And refrigerated drugs - what about those?

[Statistical]

10. More importantly ..... water.

Humans can survive on limited food for quite a while. Most people have a couple weeks supply of medicine.
No human can survive more than a few days without water.

[conscious evolution]

32. Frankly,they are fucked

in a long term outage.

[GreenStormCloud]

13. A replay of the 1859 Carrington Event on the sun would destroy...

...our modern electronics. It raised hell with the telegraph lines of 1859, starting fires in some places from the electric current induced into the lines. Auroras were seen as far south as Panama.

[Lance_Boyle]

17. Would destroy SOME electronics.

This article is mostly alarmist nonsense. Large transformers that are not taken offline in preparation will be blown. And then repaired. Your car's electronics, shielded by at least 2 Faraday cages, will be fine. Your PC, disconnected from power and network lines, will be fine. Your i-gadgets and cell phones may fry. But even this is not terribly likely if they are inside your home (or car) during the event.

[Statistical]

18. Except how many electronics will be disconnected in time?

Now think globally. Think about all the electronics which can't be easily disconnected (like traffic signals for example).

[FSogol]

27. Plus, we can continue talking on DU via Morse Code:

.- .--. .--. .-.. . -... . . ... + -... .-. . .- ... - ..-. . . -.. .. -. --. + .- -. -.. + .--. .. - -... ..- .-.. .-.. ... + --- .... + -- -.--

;-)

[GreenStormCloud]

34. One word: Satellites.

Further, I am talking about a Carrington event, not just a huge solar flare. Anything that could raise hell with the electronics of 1859 will be deadly to modern systems.

[Xithras]

38. The problem with transformers...

Is that most cities and towns generally only have enough on hand to replace a small percentage in case of failure. If New York lost even 10% of its transformers, large sections of the city could be left in the dark for an extended time because they are NOT going to have enough replacements on hand. They'll need to get additional transformers from the manufacturer...who will also be trying to fill orders for a couple thousand OTHER municipalities nationwide that lost a large percentage of their transformers. The supply chain simply isn't there to replace a large portion of our electrical infrastructure in a short period of time.

[GreenStormCloud]

46. And the manufacturer will have likely also lost electricity and can't make any transformers.

A Carrington event would truly leave us screwed.

[Statistical]

15. Here is a device I recommend everyone invest in.

Great not just in solar storms but also in any natural disaster.

http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Burner-Compact-Liquid-Stove/dp/B0009PUPX8



Costs about $80 to $100. Often you can find a used one for $20 to $50.

The advantage is is burns Coleman Fuel but also GASOLINE. Provides about 5-20 hours of cooking heat per gallon of fuel.
Worst case scenario you get siphon some gasoline from car and run it for weeks if not months.

For backpacking a model like this one is better but for a natural disaster kit (which likely will just sit in garage) you can't beat the bigger 2 burner model.

[Dover]

16. Intense Solar Storm Spins Satellite Out of Control

Intense Solar Storm Spins Satellite Out of Control - Peter B. de Selding

Galaxy 15 stopped responding to ground controllers on April 5. The satellite's manufacturer, Orbital Sciences Corp. of Virginia, has said an intense solar storm in early April may be to blame.

The Galaxy 15 satellite is seen before its 2005 launch to geostationary orbit nearly 36,000 kilometers over the Earth's equator.
An adrift Intelsat satellite that stopped communicating with its ground controllers last month remains out of control and has begun moving eastward along the geostationary arc, raising the threat of interference with other satellites in its path, Intelsat and other industry officials said.

In what industry officials called an unprecedented event, Intelsat's Galaxy 15 communications satellite has remained fully "on," with its C-band telecommunications payload still functioning even as it has left its assigned orbital slot of 133 degrees west longitude 36,000 kilometers over the equator.

Galaxy 15 stopped responding to ground controllers on April 5. The satellite's manufacturer, Orbital Sciences Corp. of Virginia, has said an intense solar storm in early April may be to blame. It was launched into space in 2005.

The first satellite likely to face signal interference problems from the adrift Galaxy 15 is the AMC-11 C-band satellite owned by SES of Luxembourg and stationed at 131 degrees west, just two degrees away from Galaxy 15's starting position. ..cont'd


http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/space/space_exploration/news.php?q=1273649366

[SheilaT]

19. Why does this feel totally alarmist to me?

Several years ago there was some kind of solar flare that wiped out all the electronics and the communications satellites . . . . No? that didn't happen? never mind.

Anyway, my point is that I've seen exactly this kind of prediction before, probably during the last solar maximum.

[Dover]

20. Nasa and scientists are sounding the alarm. This one is supposed to be 30-50% stronger

This week researchers announced that a storm is coming--the most intense solar maximum in fifty years. The prediction comes from a team led by Mausumi Dikpati of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR). "The next sunspot cycle will be 30% to 50% stronger than the previous one," she says. If correct, the years ahead could produce a burst of solar activity second only to the historic Solar Max of 1958.


http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/10mar_stormwarning/


I guess my feeling was that because we haven't experienced a really big solar flare event before we might tend to not pay much attention to the warnings coming from NASA et al. So I felt that highlighting it might be helpful.
Sometimes there really IS a wolf. But feel free to ignore.

[Statistical]

21. The sun operates on (poorly understood) cycles.

The sun is approaching the zenith of one of its cycles and the magnitude of this particular cycle is the second strongest in last 200 years.

Prior to Katrina New Orleans hadn't severely flooded in the "last couple years" therefore it was safe right?

When dealing with an object that has been undergoing fusion for 5 billion years, "several years" is hardly enough time to make an objective assessment.

Now a billion years from now you might have a point.

[SheilaT]

33. A couple of years before Katrina

there was a series published in the New Orleans newspaper describing EXACTLY how a major hurricane could impact the city and flood everything. It was widely disseminated in the days immediately before Katrina hit. I recall reading it on-line. That did not come across as fear-mongering as this other does to me.

Before the Galveston hurricane of 1900, it was believed that somehow hurricanes would never strike at that particular point, that something about the topography of that city magically protected it. They were wrong.

All of that I get quite clearly. But I've been paying attention to far too much screaming from the rooftops about the next disaster. H1N1 was supposed to kill us all, and it turned out to be an unusually mild flu. It's unusual mildness was noted quite early on, which didn't stop the mainstream media as well as a lot of health professionals who should have known better, to put out claims of a world-wide pandemic that would be even deadlier than the 1918 flu, even though many of the conditions which made the 1918 flu so deadly don't exist any more.

Again, I've notice dire predictions in connection with the solar cycles, claims that all the communications satellites would be wiped out. I just can't help being highly skeptical of such predictions.

[Statistical]

36. So there were warnings before Katrina which were ignored leading to massive damage

Now there are warnings of an increased potential for major solar storms and you feel they should be ignored.

Why would you imagine that communication sats can't be crippled by solar storms?

The last solar storm of similar magnitude was in 1958 before advent of permanent satellites.

The sats will be hit by a massive amount of charged particles with essentially no protection. While sats have some shielding, weight = cost so they are shielded only against routine events not once in a century magnitudes. The charges particles will cause direct damage to micro-circuitry but more dangerously it also charges the skin of the sat. Due to the shape, position, angle of the sat parts of it become more charged than others creating a differential (much like rubbing socks on carpet). Eventually that differential will be great enough that it will arc and that arcing will allow a lot of current to flow in short period of time.

Not only is the direct effect vary dangerous to sats there are also indirect effects. UV radiation causes the earths atmosphere to actually expand. Thus increasing the density of the medium low orbit sats are traveling through. This increases drag and thus low of altitude.

Skylab re-entered earths orbit more than 3 years earlier than expected due to a relatively small (in comparison to potential in 2010-2012 cycle) solar storm in 1979. The atmosphere expanded enough that is induced a slightly higher drag on the space station. Not much but the effect is cumulative on each pass the space station lost more and more altitude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylab#Abandonment_and_re-entry

In 1800s a major solar storm caused 200V charge on telegraph lines. Now telegraph is rather crude and as a result resilient to damage. What do you think 200V DC and massive current would do to internet backbone, electrical grid, and phone line networks.

When that current runs down those lines smashing into transformers, generators, attached electronic equipment, traffic signals what do you imagine will happen?

[Dover]

43. Well, the truth is

that I use my intuition about much of this, don't you? For instance, I didn't pay any attention at all to the H1N1 stuff. In fact I toss out most of what comes from the msm if it feels sensationalized. But for some reason
this one sounded an alarm in me, regardless of the delivery, although in truth I'm not hearing all that much about it in the news, are you? So maybe it's MY delivery that feels too hyped. That paragraph I posted in response to you (above) was from an article that was written a few years ago. They were talking about this back then.

I felt the same inkling about Katrina, btw, sensing it was going to be unusually bad, though I wasn't clear how it would all unfold. So if you're not feeling this one then I'd pay attention to that if I were you and just forget about it. But this one resonates for me.

[NNN0LHI]

37. Its not alarmist.. Here is an archive of the most severe solar storms

March 13, 1989 - The Quebec Blackout Storm - Astronomers were busily tracking "Active Region 5395" on the Sun when suddenly it disgorged a massive cloud of superheated gas on March 10, 1989. Three days later, and seemingly unrelated to the solar paroxicism, people around the world saw a spectacular Northern Lights display. Most newspapers that reported this event considered the spectacular aurora to be the most newsworthy aspect of the storm. Seen as far south as Florida and Cuba, the vast majority of people in the Northern Hemisphere had never seen such a spectacle in recent memory. At 2:45 AM on March 13, electrical ground currents created by the magnetic storm found their way into the power grid of the Hydro-Quebec Power Authority. Giant capacitors tried to regulate these currents but failed within a few seconds as automatic protective systems took them off-line one by one. Suddenly, the entire 9,500 megawatt output from Hydro-Quebec's La Grande Hydroelectric Complex found itself without proper regulation. Power swings tripped the supply lines from the 2000 megawatt Churchill Falls generation complex, and 18 seconds later, the entire Quebec power grid collapsed. Six million people were affected as they woke to find no electricity to see them through a cold Quebec wintry night. People were trapped in darkened office buildings and elevators, stumbling around to find their way out. Traffic lights stopped working, Engineers from the major North American power companies were worried too. Some would later conclude that this could easily have been a $6 billion catastrophe affecting most US East Coast cities. All that prevented the cascade from affecting the United States were a few dozen capacitors on the Allegheny Network.

http://www.solarstorms.org/SRefStorms.html

[Statistical]

41. Yup and the one in 1859 was roughly 3x the severity.

Much like hurricaines not all solar storms are "created equal" and the magnitude has a lot to do with the extent of the damage.

The human race "lucked out" by having such a massive storm when the amount of electrical infrastructure was tiny. Really the only material network that could be affected was the telegraph and it was. Fires, electrocutions, entire portions of the telegraph network remained energized for a significant period of time.

To put it into comparison the 1989 storm was like your average hurricane and the baby storms we get every couple years more like tropical depressions however every once and a while you get a Katrina (1859 solar storm).

Given the sun operations of such a huge lifespan (billions of years) and the cycles between major storms can span centuries we simply have been lucky given the small window of time that the human race has existed with complex and fragile electrical networks (roughly hundred or so years).

It might not happen in 2012 but given a long enough time frame there will be another massive storm at a time when human race is vulnerable.

[NNN0LHI]

44. With a relatively mild sunspot cycle 22 I was able to communicate anywhere in the world from my car

That was using a Uniden Single Sideband CB radio with 12 watts output and some extra channels installed and a Wilson 1000 whip antenna on top of my Mustang GT. The communications were clear as talking to someone on a hard line telephone.

Had a linear amplifier too. Didn't even need it. And sunspot cycle 22(1986 - 1996) was just an average sunspot cycle. Nothing spectacular.

It was a lot of fun though.

Don

[Xithras]

39. The problem is that two cycles are overlapping.

The sun has two cycles that impact technology. A 22 year magnetic field cycle, and an 11 year sunspot cycle. They aren't connected at all (that we can detect), and typically fall on different years.

Solar maximums have always caused issues, including the infamous Canadian blackout in the 1980's. Warnings go out every time we hit the peak.

What is different, this time around, is that the two cycles are going to hit at the same time. This is a rare event, and last happened in 1859. When it happened, telegraph wires burst into flames on the poles, and people in Panama stayed up late watching the auroraes. The last two times they were even CLOSE (1921 and 1960), they interfered with radio communications worldwide.

Will that happen this time? There is no way to know. What we DO know is that this won't be your "average" solar maximum.

[trotsky]

62. Because it is. n/t

[L0oniX]

22. Time to go back to land line phones?

[Statistical]

29. Phone network will be destroyed by the same GIC.

Even primitive telegraph network was heavily damaged a couple centuries ago.

[End Of The Road]

26. Texas in the summer with no electricity?? NO WAY!!

Actually, I gave this some thought some years ago when I was reading about peak oil. I think I'd have to move some cots onto the covered patio (alas, not screened in), hang up one of those mosquito-net tents, and sleep out there.

My house has no cross-ventilation like my childhood home. We survived some hot summers with open windows and fans in the hallway.

One of my biggest issues with new "energy efficient" homes is that while they may have an energy-efficient air conditioner, you are SOL if you can't run that air conditioner.

[Dover]

30. Way! You can always drive down to the Gulf to cool off....oh wait...

I'm guessing solar flare years are hotter than usual too.
Don't see too many screened porches anymore either.
I'd love to see some of the green builders take on the challenge
of building a home that had electricity but was also functionally and
passively built to work without it.


Well at least Texas has some amazing, ice cold natural springs...

[qb]

35. And then the neutrinos transform into microwaves and cook the earth's core just in time for...

:scared:
2012

















:sarcasm:

[Kablooie]

40. Better print out these suggestions. You won't be able to get back here if the power is out.

[MilesColtrane]

42. Scary.

If mobile phones, ISPs, and TV are knocked out the collective IQ of the planet may increase.

[Delphinus]

60. I was just

thinking to myself the other day how we seem to have "devolved" from the Age of Reason ... maybe this will be good. :)

[LWolf]

47. Good question.

I don't think I COULD live here without electricity. First of all, I pump my water from 475 feet beneath the surface of the ground. That takes electricity.

Secondly, I have to keep heaters in stock tanks for the stock during the winter, or their water freezes solid. That takes electricity.

For the rest of it? Drying my clothes during winters that don't get out of the 20s or 30s during the day would be difficult. Taking frozen showers, if I had water, would be worse. I could do without lights and other electronics. Water and hot water would be the biggest concerns.

That and food storage, of course.

[Dover]

56. Yes, as someone mentioned above, I think water and heat would be a priority.

And that's where I would focus my efforts. Some things to consider are installing a cistern so that there's always a ready supply of water that can be manually emptied through gravity. Longer term, it might even be wise to collect rainwater. And although the filtering systems for potable water can be quite expensive, you can plan to only use it for non-potable things and have a relatively inexpensive, portable drinking water filter system handy (the kind with the ceramic filters are great).

I don't know what kind of shelter you have for the horses, but if you have some kind of roof over their heads then you might use that to collect rainwater and have it directed to a cistern and/or trough that sits inside/beneath the shelter for added protection from the weather. And it can be wrapped in insulation.

I'm still not certain what to expect from independent solar panels in a situation like this, but a unit just powerful enough to run a well pump and/or a solar water heater might be a good investment that could be kept in storage and used post-event.

If you can build a fire then you can have hot water. And of course there are all kinds of wood stoves/tubs as well as outdoor fire pits. If folks can even just create one room in the house that is designed for heat retention they can retreat to, it might be helpful.

Those are just a few things that have crossed my mind, some of which I'll be implementing regardless of threat to electric grids because I'm generally moving toward sustainability anyway. It just makes sense to me on so many levels.

Necessity is the mother of invention. And I'm sure we'd all have to get very creative if such a situation came to pass. I do think we'll be seeing more of those 'worst case scenarios' in the future.

[LWolf]

66. I have a wood cook stove.

I've never used it, simply because the firebox is so small standard wood doesn't fit. I do use a regular wood stove for heat.

An underground cistern that could be pumped by hand is a good thought. I actually looked at that when the shared well I was on failed and I had to dig another. I just couldn't come up with the cash. Digging anything here is a big deal; we sit on a deep bed of rock with a thin layer of soil.

My previous place had a raised tank, and we had gravity feed when electricity failed. I looked into that, too, but keeping the water in the tank from freezing during the winter was cost prohibitive.

Really, water is the key. And wood, if I have to cut it all without a chainsaw. Still, it can be done.

[Phoonzang]

49. If a massive solar flare destroys all of our electronics the majority of us will die

regardless of any preparations we make. Those who do survive will envy the dead as they are forced to witness horrors beyond imagining and struggle for food every day for the rest of their very short lives.

So uh....let's be glad the chances of begin hit with a civilization ending megaflare in our lifetimes is extremely low. Also, maybe if we're so worried about it, countries should spend the money to harden essential systems.

[Old Troop]

50. Is this the next Y2K or H1N1?

[Dover]

55. Maybe.....maybe not. Solar flares aren't the only potential cause of elec. grid collapse.

And our government, no doubt, has some plan for meeting such a crisis even if it's a long shot. If we didn't have electricity, what might take it's place? I don't have a clue what's possible, but I'm curious what it might be. Is anyone thinking outside that familiar box?

[AnnieBW]

52. I'd go through Rachel Maddow withdrawal

Seriously.

[sendero]

53. As a general science geek..

... and amateur radio operator, I'm having trouble getting excited about this.

the idea that solar activity is going to knock out solar electric panels is ludicrous.

there is a lot of bullshit here.

[Dover]

54. I'm very curious to know your thoughts on a solar flare's potential effects

on pv panels (particularly those not connected to a grid).

What else have you read that you think is bullshit? I'm curious.

[sendero]

59. I have not done particular research on this....

... but it just doesn't seem credible to me. To kill a solar cell this radiation would have to induce many times the current in a cell than it does now. That would require a huge incremental increase in radiation that IMHO would cause problems much more troublesome than that.

I could be wrong, but this reads like a lot of medical reporting where a "journalist" takes the results of some study and claims conclusions not reached by the scientists involved. I believe in science, but "journalism" not so much.

[Xithras]

68. The danger to solar cells doesn't come from radiation.

The danger is that the PV cells are fairly sensitive to electrical overloads, and they're often interconnected to electrical grids that ARE susceptible to damage from CME's.

During the 1989 solar storm that knocked out the power to part of Canada generated so much current in the grid that huge industrial transformers simply melted from the heat. If PV's had been interconnected to the same grid, the surge would have easily fried their circuitry, and probably fried much of the PV arrays themselves.

If the PV's are interconnected into the larger grid, there's really no danger.

[AsahinaKimi]

57. Lived 3 days without Electricty during the 1989 SF Earthquake

I was 15. Our house in the city had no electricity for three days. We used transistor radios to hear the news, ate peanutbutter and jelly sandwiches, plus fruits..and nuts we had. Had bottled water, and used candles to light our way, (conserving flashlight power). It was like camping out in our house, but with no fire.


San Francisco Earthquake

[AsahinaKimi]

58. dupe

dupe

[WinkyDink]

61. Wouldn't want to be in an electronics-dependent airplane just then.

[Xithras]

67. That's really not much of a danger. We'll have plenty of warning before it hits.

Normal solar flares take 3-4 days to reach Earth. Particularly energetic ones usually still take a couple of days. Even the Carrington event, the most powerful on record, took 18 hours to hit the Earth.

In the 1850's, the Carrington flare was witnessed by astronomers as it happened, but there was no effective way to warn the worlds population (and honestly, they didn't realize the severity of what they were witnessing). Today, automated monitoring software would warn scientists within seconds of any major Earth-directed CME, and between modern media and the Internet, the rest of the world would be aware of it within an hour. We'll have plenty of time to prepare for the outage.

This isn't an event that can happen without warning.

[kgnu_fan]

64. Thinking about people of Iraq - who lost electricity and water by US invasion