Church adopts a public school. Pastor says by befriending students they can now convert the parents.

[madfloridian]

In Lakeland, Florida, a Southern Baptist megachurch has adopted a public school whose budget was cut. There is a lot of freedom now in Florida apparently to mix public schools and religion.

It may be a good thing that the church is providing tutors, catering school events with spaghetti dinners, buying sneakers for the students. But it doesn't sound like it will end there.

From the WSJ:

Towns Tap Businesses, Churches to Shore Up Budgets


Edward Linsmier for The Wall Street Journal Combee Elementary School officials and Pastor Dave McClamma, center top, look on as students receive new shoes from the church, which has been helping out the budget-strapped school this year.

LAKELAND, Fla.—When his budget for pencils, paper, and other essential supplies was cut by a third this school year, the principal of Combee Elementary School worried children would suffer. Then, a local church stepped in and "adopted" the school. The First Baptist Church at the Mall stocked a resource room with $5,000 worth of supplies. It now caters spaghetti dinners at evening school events, buys sneakers for poor students, and sends in math and English tutors.

The principal is delighted. So are church pastors. "We have inroads into public schools that we had not had before," says Pastor Dave McClamma. "By befriending the students, we have the opportunity to visit homes to talk to parents about Jesus Christ."

You could almost call this faith-based schooling. Public funds are being cut or diverted to private religious schools and charter schools.

That leaves the public schools floundering, needing help, and the churches can step in with help and attempts to convert.

More than one way to skin a cat.

Some former pastors show concern for this movement.

In Florida, meanwhile, alliances between churches and schools are igniting debate about church-state boundaries. "I have great concerns about churches who see public schools as, well, what shall I say, church membership," says Harry Parrott, a retired Baptist minister who runs a local chapter of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

I agree. This Baptist church has a narrow agenda. They worked with the state legislature to pass anti-gay laws. They do not support a woman's right to choose. They believe a woman's place is in the home and being submissive to her husband.

And now they get access to the parents of these school children.

The principal openly said he hopes that there are conversions. The superintendent called him out on that.

"If they want to come in and help, who am I to say no?" says Mr. Comparato, the principal.

He says he would welcome congregations of any faith as sponsors, but adds of his students, "My personal conviction is that I hope through this they'll know Jesus and they'll get saved."

Asked if the principal's comments indicated he was promoting one particular religion, Ms. McKinzie, the Polk County superintendent, says, "He personally can hope anything he wants, as long as he offers programs at the school for parents who don't believe in the Baptist faith or anything at all."

In Florida there is too much crossing over between school and religion.

Eight Catholic schools converted to charter to get public funding.

And so, the Archdiocese of Miami will begin its experiment with charter schools this fall. What was intended as a pilot program at one parish – Corpus Christi in Wynwood – will become, for financial reasons, the norm at seven more. Charters also will open in August where five other Catholic schools closed this June: Sacred Heart, Our Lady of Divine Providence in Sweetwater, St. Francis Xavier in Overtown, St. Stephen in Miramar and St. Clement in Fort Lauderdale.

A seventh charter will open at St. Malachy in Tamarac, which opted to close its school before its financial situation deteriorated further. And an eighth charter will open in Miami Gardens, in the building used by St. Monica School until it closed in May 2008.

The First Baptist Church at the Mall now has too much access to the students and parents of that elementary school.

And there is too much mixing of public and private money. Too much mixing of what should be secular and what is religious.

[WeDidIt]

1. That;s some fucked up vile assed theocratic bullshit right there. n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

32. +1,000,000

[MadMaddie]

2. The more money the church gives to the school the more

the school will feel indebted to the church. This is not good.

[bluestateguy]

3. I feel most sorry for the religious minorities in that school zone

I'm assuming that includes Jews, Muslims, and non-believers.

[aquart]

5. Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Taoists, Scientologists, Mormons, Catholics...

[burnsei sensei]

60. The Muslims won't stand for it.

They'll definitely start their own school in the community.
And as for mainline Christians? I wish they would abandon these schools also. The Southern Baptists are not our friends.
Southern Baptists stopped being mainline when they chose a literalist interpretation of the Bible in the 1980s. The sect has yet to recover from their fanaticism.

[msongs]

4. christian strategy, first kill the schools then take them over for the lard nt

[RKP5637]

6. Yeah, Onward Christian Soldiers! These people are F'en freaks! n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

31. they want to tear down all of our government services...

and replace them with their theocratic bullshit. Which would of course only lead to 'convert or die'.

[madfloridian]

35. Yes, and we are not fighting them now as a party. Link...

to what I just posted. Obama is expanding the initiatives begun by Bush.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8567054&mesg_id=8570266

Obama "Says challenges faced today are 'too big for government to solve alone'"

[provis99]

7. funny how modern Baptists reject everything the Baptist church was founded for.

A paramount article of faith of the early Baptists was separation of church and state.

[Mariana]

15. Yeah, but that was when some OTHER church

was likely to be getting the power of the state on their side. It's easy to be against church involvement with the government when it's not YOUR church that's going to be running the show.

[AnArmyVeteran]

30. Usually, nothing a church does is without strings attached

They generally look at people with dollar signs in their eyes and the 10-15% they will get from each new convert. Then they will make a huge Jesus statue costing $300,000 so God can burn it down with lightning! Go god!

Anyone wonder why there are over 2,000 different 'Christian' churches? Not two of them agree on what's even in the Bible.

[Dawson Leery]

43. Most church's are money mints.

[burnsei sensei]

61. The Baptists

were extremely important people in the development of religious and political life in Rhode Island. Roger Williams joined the sect also. He did not remain in it. Williams had a hard time sticking with anything except himself.

[Newest Reality]

8. One would question the intent here

Obviously, if the churches are helping out for the sake of doing "good works" then that, to me is noble and laudable.

However, if they are engaging the schools, (using other people's money, tax-free) with the primary purpose of proselytizing the parents and students, and they do not make that motive clear, then that is an ulterior motive and I call that deception and we know who THEY say is the master of that.

So, either they are helping out because that is the right thing to do, or they are merely being opportunists rolling in a religious Trojan Horse in order in order to add to their numbers and increase their donor-base like any business might.

Of course, they can speak with a forked-tongue and say it is both, but that does not solve the dilemma, does it?

[madfloridian]

25. Agree on motive...but they do make it quite clear.

From the WSJ article:
""We have inroads into public schools that we had not had before," says Pastor Dave McClamma. "By befriending the students, we have the opportunity to visit homes to talk to parents about Jesus Christ."

And the principal said:

""If they want to come in and help, who am I to say no?" says Mr. Comparato, the principal.

He says he would welcome congregations of any faith as sponsors, but adds of his students, "My personal conviction is that I hope through this they'll know Jesus and they'll get saved."

AND they walk the halls to get students to pray, principal and pastor.

"On a recent muggy afternoon at the school, the lanky, 57-year-old principal strode down outdoor walkways painted with cougar paws (for the Combee mascot) with two pastors from First Baptist.

"Can I have a word of prayer with you?" asked Pastor McClamma. The principal, his assistant and the two pastors from First Baptist stood in a circle outdoors, outside the main office. Pastor McClamma asked for "Combee Elementary, Lord, just to excel."

[Dawson Leery]

9. This is standard practice for the evangelical/born again/fundies, etc...

REMEMBER THIS: These religious zealots do not give one cent to 'charity' unless they get a chance to convert those who receive the so-called 'charity'.

[Mariana]

12. And if they don't get enough converts as a result of their efforts

the recipients can kiss those contributions goodbye. The church will move on to to some other project that they think is more likely to produce new members of their congregation.

[MadHound]

10. Now why should we all fully support public education again? Oh, yeah, this kind of shit.

But hey, with the ongoing assault on public education, we will see more of this unless the people speak up and step up.

[Odin2005]

11. This is disgusting on so many levels!

[kevinbgoode]

13. Why don't the Baptists go adopt some Catholic school that

"converted" to Charter? Let them all go recruit each other until the parents explode with indignation. These con-artist con-servative churches do NOT believe in a parent's right to decide a child's spiritual exposure and education.

[kevinbgoode]

14. They'll change their tune when some Satanic church,

or the CHurch of Scientology, moves to "adopt" a school.

[MajorChode]

22. Or a Muslim mosque, or a Buddist temple, or a Unitarian church...

or any other type of religious institution that doesn't subscribe to Judaeo–Christian theology.

[LiberalFighter]

16. Two points: 1) Don't schools require anyone including volunteers to be fingerprinted and checked?

Or will THESE people be exempt.

2) Is the church looking for innocent kids that they can prey on sexually?

[madfloridian]

33. Yes, that county does require fingerprinting of all teachers.

I think there is/was a background search on aides and other workers. Not sure of the fingerprinting of other workers.

No pastor, no one, is allowed to roam school hallways so freely. They really tightened stuff up after 9/11.

[madfloridian]

17. 13 of 30 families visited were converted according to article.

"While Combee gained resources, the church gained access to families. At Christmas, the school connected the church with parents who said they wouldn't mind being visited at home by First Baptist. The church brought gifts, food and the gospel. Of about 30 families visited over two weekends in December, 13 "came to the Lord," says Mr. McClamma, a 58-year-old motorcycle buff who drives a black sports-utility vehicle with the bumper sticker "Christ First."

AND he makes his purpose very clear:

"Mr. McClamma says adopting Combee goes far beyond providing resources like school supplies. "The purpose is to show them the church cares, and that there is hope, and hope is found in Jesus Christ."

AND this is totally inappropriate at a public school. This is a VERY fundamentalist area, but this really surprises me that they would be walking the school halls asking people to pray.

"On a recent muggy afternoon at the school, the lanky, 57-year-old principal strode down outdoor walkways painted with cougar paws (for the Combee mascot) with two pastors from First Baptist.

"Can I have a word of prayer with you?" asked Pastor McClamma. The principal, his assistant and the two pastors from First Baptist stood in a circle outdoors, outside the main office. Pastor McClamma asked for "Combee Elementary, Lord, just to excel."

[PM Martin]

18. Does this not violate the first amendment?

[madfloridian]

19. IMO yes. It doesn't seem to bother anyone though.

It seems to be acceptable. :shrug:

[madfloridian]

20. Gee thanks for the unrecs to take it off greatest...even if just barely.

I don't really care, I just see no reason to unrec unless you approve of joining schools and churches in loving embraces.

[Hannah Bell]

21. that is messed up. & catholic charters getting state money, too. great.

[Nikki Stone1]

23. As long as churches pay no taxes and public schools get budget cuts

we may see shit like this. I wonder how much taxing the churches would bring in.

[hapkidogal]

41. I'm with you.

I think taxing churches is a great idea.

[madfloridian]

24. McSchool...Sikes Elementary in Lakeland.

"At Sikes Elementary, principal Ann Tankson hands out fliers urging families to flock to "McTeacher's Night" at the local McDonald's, where volunteer teachers flip burgers as "celebrity employees." The franchise gives a portion of proceeds to the school.

"You do what you have to do," she says."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704875604575280422614633564.html?KEYWORDS=teacher

And in nearby Frostproof a gun shop gets into the act.

"Nearby Frostproof Elementary asks local businesses to sponsor classrooms, in return for promotion on the school marquee. Among those that stepped in is Rogers & Walker Gun Shop, which earned billing for donations totaling $300 to two classes."

I want to laugh at the thought of a gun shop advertising on a school marquee, but instead I might cry.

[madfloridian]

26. Arne appointed the Education Faith-based director...we're expanding Bush initiatives.

I thought of a couple of things when I read about this church and school. First I remembered the Theocracy Watch article on what they called Bush's transition from secular to faith-based governing.

Transformation from Secular to Religious Government

Under the Bush administration, our country is experiencing a major transformation from a secular to a religious government. The President's faith-based initiative is central to this transformation and raises serious questions about church-state separation. "Slouching toward theocracy. President Bush's faith-based initiative is doing better than you think," by Bill Berkowitz, 2/6/04 provides an overview of this transformation.

In his State of the Union address, Bush renewed a call for Congress to make permanent his faith-based proposals that would allow religious organizations to compete for more government contracts and grants without a strict separation between their religious activities and social service programs.

On February 4, 2004, the U.S. House of Representatives voted for provisions in a social services bill that allow religiously based job discrimination in publicly funded programs run by churches.

Obama in 2008 made it clear he would expand the faith-based initiatives.

Obama wants to expand faith-based programs

Says challenges faced today are 'too big for government to solve alone'

Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, criticized Obama's proposed expansion of a program he said has undermined civil rights and civil liberties.

"I am disappointed that any presidential candidate would want to continue a failed policy of the Bush administration," he said. "It ought to be shut down, not continued."

John DiIulio, who in 2001 was director of Bush's White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, said Obama's plan "reminds me of much that was best in both then Vice President Al Gore's and then Texas Governor George W. Bush's respective first speeches on the subject in 1999," according to a statement from the Obama campaign.

Bush supports broader freedoms for taxpayer-funded religious charities. But he never got Congress to go along so he has conducted the program through administrative actions and executive orders.

But the oddest of all is that Arne Duncan appointed the Education director of faith-based.

Why does the Department of Education have a Faith-Based and Community Initiatives Center?

Colorado Senate President Peter Groff was appointed Friday to a post in the U.S. Department of Education.

Groff, who has made education a hallmark of his Senate leadership, will serve as director of the Faith-Based and Community Initiatives Center in the office of Education Secretary Arne Duncan.

Groff will “help empower faith-based and community groups, enlisting them in support of the department’s mission to ensure equal access to education and to promote educational excellence for all Americans,” the Education Department said in a statement.

Just thinking out loud as I see the First Baptist Church at the Mall...anti-gay, anti-choice for women, belief in submissive role for women....start converting parents and walking the halls praying at a public school.

It is being allowed and encouraged.

[Tailormyst]

27. That would never fly here in MA.

[madfloridian]

28. It shouldn't fly here either.

[Tailormyst]

36. No, it shouldn't

Sometimes I think FL is where normal states send their crazies (and old folks, mine included). Sorry you are having to deal with this crap down there.

[Catshrink]

29. Here are a couple of problems I see:

Job security for teachers is going away and these religious zealots are moving into schools, in this case with the principal's blessing. What happens to a teacher who refuses that "moment of prayer?" Is her contract renewed? Does the principal start looking for reasons for dismissal?

And what happens in biology classes when the lessons on evolution comes up? The curriculum should be dictated by state standards. How do the OT Christian zealots deal with that - do they insist the teacher go against the state standards?

This is bad, very bad news.

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. Standard missionary practice. Come bearing gifts with strings attached.

[Dogtown]

37. K&R n/t

[newspeak]

56. so, SA, which has one of the worst human rights records, with their religious

"police," controlling the population-threatening people with punishment for not following the Koran (or their interpretation of the Koran), and Iran where theocracy is closely tied with the government. If churches in this country continue to influence governmental programs and pander for converts, then is the US heading for a theocratic government? I am glad that my children are already out of school-because if my children attended that public school, I'd be looking for a new school. No way in hell would I want my children to be influenced by this church.

[Dogtown]

63. posted to wrong poster, i think.

but Dogtown agrees with you, newspeak.

[Solly Mack]

38. That's fucked up.

[hapkidogal]

39. Call me old fashioned but

how about separation of church and state? Let's keep it that way. This is how the rethugs plan to take over:(

[bongbong]

40. The Rise of American Madrasses

Suiciders with explosive vests will be next on the fundies' agenda.

[miscsoc]

46. The comparison is apt

Given the politicized nature of most of the churches who engage in these things. Madrassas, not just in the sense of religious schools, but in the sense of religious schools with definite political committments like a lot of the modern madrassas in the Islamic world which have been churning out far right Islamists for decades.

[Dawson Leery]

51. Based upon the violence of the tea parties,

the 'christian' right may turn consistently violent.

[LWolf]

42. This is a big step in the wrong direction,

and I've seen churches taking smaller steps here in my district. Local pastors encourage parents to volunteer in the classroom. We sure appreciate that help. But those volunteers...

They are quite active in questioning curriculum and the way curriculum is delivered because it is "contrary to their faith." They get more flies with honey.

They also recruit students for their churches; they encourage their kids to befriend vulnerable looking students, invite them over to their homes a few times, and before you know it, they're taking them to church every Sunday and trying to get them to join church youth groups.

A little more subtle than "adopting" a whole school, but the agenda is the same. Befriending students in order to proselytize.

[madfloridian]

58. There has been a lot of it going on here in smaller ways as well.

More church seniors volunteering for classrooms, which is a good thing....but it is well-organized. A couple of teachers have had to stop them from having prayer sessions with the kids.

Since there is money going to private religious schools in FL via vouchers, it has emboldened the churches to get more involved in ways they should not.

[LWolf]

59. Volunteering for the wrong reasons.

:(

[defendandprotect]

44. Patriarchy, Organized Patriarchal Religion, Capitalism = Unholy Trinity of destruction ... !!

[fascisthunter]

45. these religious fanatics have earned people's hatred

I see their plight as an attack on our country. If we don't stop them now, they will destroy more... bank on it. These people are sick in the head.

[walldude]

47. OK fucking fine.. They want the church/state line removed?

Then line up to pay your fucking taxes.

[alp227]

48. It's the 21st century for crying out loud and religion is still seeking more converts?

Sigh. Part of the huge beating of a wounded public school system. The Supreme Court should engaged in judicial activism NOW and stop this madness!

[glinda]

49. K & R n/t

[Tutankhamun]

50. This is a neocon wet dream. Dismantle public education, thereby creating an ignorant uneducated

electorate who will then vote Republican and provide dirt cheap corporate labor. And now, the dismantling of public education has the added bonus of tricking more people to convert to their religion. I wish Jesus really could come back and tell people what he really thinks. Jesus needs to save us from Christianity.

[noel711]

52. self-delete

[Jakes Progress]

53. If you don't mind Exxon in your school,

why would you mind a church.

Either way you replace the duties and responsibilities of the state with that of some other entity.

I notice that DU responds heavily when an education issue involves religion. Not so much when it involves unions and corporations.

Neither church nor corporate influence should be in our schools. This is just another step for attaining the neocon dream that was made manifest under reagan and bennet. Fight for our schools now or just sit back and let them be taken from you.

[crim son]

57. Unions and corporations can hardly be lumped into the same category.

And what are you referring to when you say DUers are not anti-corporation?

I believe that the reason people feel something akin to hate when they learn about moves like this one, is that the "believers" involved are basing their movements on A FREAKING FANTASY which is genuinely frightening, and it isn't unusual for fearful people to become angry people. We understand the motivation of corporations and unions: we cannot understand what goes on in the mind of religious nutjobs.

[Jakes Progress]

64. Missed the point.

uess you haven't been following what is happening to education under this administration. Not too surprising because, as I said, DU turns out to slam the religions takeover of schools, but numerous well-documented threads about how the current administration is forging ahead with implementing the ronald reagan/bill bennet plan to turn schools over to private corporations. In a stunning series of actions Obama's education department has been funding and supporting privatization of public schools - a principle goal of the neo-con manifesto. I'm not a fan of religious intrusion into our schools either. But post after post about corporate intrusion draw a few comments and yawns. The contrast to the responses on this OP would indicate that the majority of DU hates the idea of religion in schools but has no problem with union busting and corporate takeover of the public schools system as long as a Democrat is doing it. My contention is that no republican administration could ever do what arne duncan is doing to our schools without DU erupting.

For information about the end of public education and how it is being achieved do a search on any of a dozen well-documented OP's by Madfloridian.

[Jkid]

54. The easist way to end this is simple.

Abolish property taxes as the primary source of school funding and have the funds come from local income taxes. But that will never happen, because the rich do not want to pay for both their schools and for underfunded schools in their own state.

[sinkingfeeling]

55. My kids would be out of that school within an hour.

[oedura]

62. And the American Taliban gets just a little bit stronger... (nt)

...