Pope says pro-choice lawmakers should be denied sacraments

[babylonsister]

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/17202252.htm

Pope says pro-choice lawmakers should be denied sacraments
By Jack Chang
McClatchy Newspapers

SAO PAULO, Brazil - Pope Benedict XVI kicked off a historic five-day visit to Brazil on Wednesday by sending a tough anti-abortion message that sparked a hemisphere-wide debate over the Roman Catholic Church's efforts to influence politicians.

In answer to a question about Mexico City's recent legalization of abortion, Benedict indicated that he would support Mexican bishops if they were to decide to excommunicate lawmakers who voted for the law.

"It is part of the code," Benedict said, according to reporters aboard the plane. "It is based simply on the principle that the killing of an innocent human child is incompatible with going in communion with the body of Christ."

The Vatican quickly clarified the pope's remarks, saying that he may have inferred from the question that Mexico's bishops had already taken action against the lawmakers, which they hadn't.

But the seeming support for excommunicating Catholic politicians who buck the church on abortion overshadowed Benedict's arrival in Sao Paulo on his first trip outside Europe since he became pope in 2005.

Benedict wasted no time in returning to the abortion issue after arriving at Sao Paulo's Guarulhos International Airport, where he was greeted by Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and other officials.

more...

[htuttle]

1. Sinead O'Connor was right

...even if she was talking about the last one.

[rusty charly]

3. a visual

[williesgirl]

2. If he's talking laws/lawmakers, they should lose their tax exempt status. Just talking about

abortion is one thing, but getting involved in our legal process about it is another. If he gets threatened with that, you'll see how fast he shuts the fuck up.

[youngdem]

4. So says the hypocritical, Nazi Youth pope.

What an asshole.

[karlrschneider]

5. Fuck a bunch of popes

:puke:

[Crunchy Frog]

6. The sooner the Catholic Church dies, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

I didn't used to feel that way, but Pope Ratzo has brought me around.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

27. Oh boy

[Crunchy Frog]

30. I'm not okay with the Catholic church as currently constituted

where the Vatican is trying to dictate the politics of presumably sovereign nations. Out here in my neck of the woods, Terry McAuliffe was prohibited from giving an address at his own alma mater (to which he has contributed loads of money) simply because he has stated in the past that he is pro-choice on abortion. There's been alot of this sort of activity in this country lately. The church seems to be trying to bring back to good old days from before the Reformation, when they were the supreme political force over states that were not really sovereign.

If that's all cool by you, well then, I guess you'll be happier living under theocratic America than I will, so I'm very happy for you.

Ahmadinejad by the way, is not a part of any religious hierarchy. He's simply the head of the Iranian state. He doesn't have that much power because real power is vested in the Shiite Clerics, so I think you're lashing out at the wrong target.

I too would like to see an end of that brand of Islam that seeks either direct political power, or seeks to control and dictate to the political structures in predominantly Muslim countries. I'd be happy to see that brand of coercive Islam die off as much as I would like to see it with coercive Catholicism and other brands of "Christianity" that are more dedicated to seeking political power that to promoting the teachings of Jesus.

I personally feel more threatened by authoritarian Christians than by authoritarian Muslims, simply because they have gained so much power and influence in a country that I'm stuck living in, and I don't see a threat of something similar happening with Islam in the near future.

At any rate, I think my views are pretty consistent accross the board. I wonder how consistent your views are (and you might want to inform yourself more about how religious hierarchies operate under Islam).

[Crunchy Frog]

32. Also surprised that it was Ahmadinejad (not part of the religious hierarchy)

who brought you around. You mean you hadn't already been brought around by bin Laden and 9/11, or the myriads of suicide bombings, or the Iranian hostage crises, or the many examples practices common in many Islamic societies that are generally regarded as barbaric (like honor killings, or stoning adulterers or gays to death)? The straw that broke your back was a somewhat bellicose head of an Islamic state (that represents a minority group within Islam) and who has little real power and is not part of the religious hierarchy?

Well, whatever.

[me b zola]

38. Do you put your religion above the Constitution & the rule of law?

Islam is not dictating to our lawmakers how they should vote or which policies they should endorce--the head of the catholic church is.

[tularetom]

7. How about pro death penalty lawmakers?

Hmmmm, funny hat man?

[smokey nj]

8. They're just peachy in his book. In fact, they get extra wine.

[Malikshah]

9. You mean RatzNazi is gonna place an interdict on us?

Hey brownshirt! Yeah I'm talking to you, Benny. You befoul the faith and its history with your hatred. Go join the ranks of Urban II and Innocent III. Leave us Catholics alone. You've done enough damage. Unam Sanctum my Aunt Fanny...

[piedmont]

10. Tax the Catholic Church, then.

They have become a PAC.

[UTUSN]

11. Sacraments say Ratz needs to be denied CHOICE!!1 n/t

[Stuckinthebush]

13. The pope is the leader of that church...he makes the rules

the members follow.

If one doesn't like it, then they can leave. Personally, I think he is a buffoon with all this excommunication talk. But I'm not a Catholic so who the hell am I to say he can't make that rule? Do I think it is damaging? Yes. Do I think it is ridiculous? Yes. But I'm not a member so I don't have a say.

OK...give me an argument why we non-Catholics should even say a thing about this rule.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

18. Because this affects all of us, Catholic and

non-catholic alike. If lawmakers are excommunicated because of votes they cast, what happens to our laws?

[kineneb]

20. ignore the excommunication, as have so many other historical leaders

The prime example is the excommunication (twice, 1227 & 1239) of Frederick II of Hohenstaufen by Gregory IX. According to his biographer, after one excommunication, Frederick went back to his electors, pulls the imperial crown out of a storage chest, places it on his head and says (paraphrase): "Am I not still King?"

Excommunication did not seem to slow the kings of the Middle Ages down. Besides, now there are alternatives, like the Episcopal Church (known to some as "catholic lite", or even -horrors- the Methodists, which could be called "episcopalian lite"). Pope Ratzi seems to have forgotten that his church is no longer the only game in town.

[SteelPenguin]

37. Shades of JFK

People afraid to vote for a catholic because they thought he'd take orders from the Pope...

It's much better apparently to just hear voices in your head and say that God is speaking directly to you and telling you to invade a middle eastern country or something...

[AndyTiedye]

21. Because He Wants To Make It The Catholic Position the LAW and Impose It On Us All!

That's why.

[Crunchy Frog]

35. If we had had a Pope like that in the early 60's

Kennedy would never have been elected President.

In those enlightened days, people in this country were genuinely concerned at the notion that a foreign religious authority might dictate this country's policies through an elected official with an alliegance to them.

I'm glad that we had a President Kennedy, and I'm sorry that we're not likely to do so again under our current circumstances. But I should keep my mouth shut about that sort of thing, since I'm only an American and not a Catholic. Whether or not we ever get an enlightened Democratic Catholic in the WH again is of no concern to me. The fact that these policies helped undermine Kerry in his presidential run, and may have helped tip the scales against him, leaving us with four more years of Bush is also none of my concern, not being a Catholic.

I'm glad that you've enlightened me. I feel so much better now.:)

[me b zola]

39. JFK had to ensure the American people that he would not take orders from the Pope

But that was back in the day when people understood that the church was for your religious activities and the government was for governing.

[Malikshah]

40. He's the Decider! The Commander Guy... Hey, it's hard work being

one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse...

[Sal Minella]

14. I really, really miss Pope John XXIII. *sigh*

[aquart]

17. Sigh. Me, too.

[havocmom]

15. Clerics going political need to pay taxes on property

x(

[baldguy]

16. Governments who systematically deny human rights to half the worlds' population

Don't deserve any special social, cultural or diplomatic consideration.

[Sapphire Blue]

19. Ratzinger should read what Jesus said in the book of Matthew, Chapter 7.

[Cha]

22. Oh NO!

:scared: :scared: No heaven for you Buster!

[ladjf]

23. Why would any sane adult allow themselves to be manipulated?

[JVS]

24. His church, his rules.

[LostinVA]

29. It really isn't -- it doesn't completely work that way

[JVS]

31. Ok then, what are the limits to his authority?

[Crunchy Frog]

42. Our country, our rules.

I think we're going to have to pass a law that says no one can hold political office if they place a greater allegiance to a foreign religious authority (or any foreign entity) than they do to this country and its laws.

I'm not anxious to return to the time when all of "Christendom" was ultimately under the political authority of the papacy. Steps need to be taken to prevent such an eventuality.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

44. yeah but i can condemn his interference in american politics and his religion

[Vidar]

25. The Pope should be denied air.

[LostinVA]

26. Also those pro-war and pro-death penalty?

Didn't think so.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. the pope is a sexist homophobic asshole.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

33. Amen to that (hehe). And the scary part is...

...without much effort, you can find a handful of religions MORE bigited than Catholicism. Sigh.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

34. tell me about it. its illegal to be gay in india.

its just that the pope is also spreading his teachings to poor countries where his stance against condoms is truly a killer.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. And one-celled beings, and fetuses without brains, have souls.

By jove, THAT makes me want to strangle somebody.

Teh stupid. It hurts.

[spanone]

41. How about those dating congressional pages mr pope?? STFU

[Crunchy Frog]

43. I think the Catholic church has already made it abundantly clear

that pederasty is not an excommunicable offense.

[malaise]

45. Left to him he's reintroduce the feudal order

That fugger is crazy.

[SaveElmer]

46. The Pope is an idiot...

'nuff said!

[Forkboy]

47. I said it yesterday and I'll say it again...Fuck the Pope

and the Popemobile he rode in on.