A year and a half into his Presidency, the Gulf oil disaster is not Obama's fault for this reason.

[Cleita]

The real problem with the oil spill, and a decade of disasters before this, is that we don’t have robust emergency response plans in place that can be mobilized within twenty four hours, each with it’s specific job to do. First responders would also be a team of engineers or whatever expertise is needed to evaluate the situation first hand and make sure that the private enterprises involved aren’t lying or trying to cover things up. Also, part of the plans should be the rules and regulations those enterprises are supposed to operate on to obtain their licenses. The first responders would determine if they had been in violation of those rules and regulations. The mining industry needs such plans as well under the aegis of a government watchdog and emergency response agency.

There should have been plans in FEMA or Homeland Security on file as to how government and civilians should respond if a disaster of this nature should happen on an ocean oil rig, whether through fire, or collapse and especially if there is a leak. There should have been agencies on alert to respond immediately. It should be understood that all assets industrial, military and civilian would be mobilized with a specific job to do. There should be plans for hurricanes, wildfires, terrorist attacks, coal mine explosions and any other disaster that could be identified and a plan drawn up for each kind of emergency with our assets both military and civilian ready to be deployed ASAP as first responders and those who would come after with their specific jobs to do.

We have a precedent for this during the cold war. We were more than ready for invasion back then and could mobilize troops, missiles and civilians, who had a specific job to do, to respond should ship loads of Chinese or Russians invade our shores. Of course it never happened, but we were ready. It’s silly now that I think about it, but the fact is that the Pentagon had drawn up very specific and thorough plans as to how any kind of military aggression on our sovereign territory would be met and frankly trounced before they even got started. It’s ironic that half a century later, the Chinese merely bought us. There seems to not been an emergency response plan for that either.

My point is that I place a big blame on Congress, many of whose members have been there for years, and those state governments that could have looked into putting emergency response plans into place in a real bipartisan and non-political way with true cooperation between federal and state governments. They feathered their nests instead with money from the very industries who could cause these disasters and Republican politicians who dismantled as many safety measures as they could by claiming they cost too much.

President Obama gets a pass on this one from me.

[zipplewrath]

1. Half pass

As someone else around here has said, this is really just symptomatic of a larger problem. Bush left behind a mess and Obama has shown no real desire to clean it up. It is the "look forward" crap. He thinks that he can clean it up as he moves along. It really needs more priority than that. He needs departments doing something more to the effect of "top to bottom" reviews. They need to find where the bodies are buried and clean it up. If you don't more of this crap will happen. Hurricane season is coming, is FEMA ready? A big earthquake can come at any time. Is CDC ready if there is an outbreak of something?

Homeland security did a survey of the most vulnerable places in the US and what could happen. It's a scarey list. Earth quakes in St. Louis, hurricanes in Manhattan, Aquaduct contamination in Southern California, these kinds of things. They seem like very unlikely, or unlucky kind of problems, but one of the things that was on the list for a while was a Cat 3 hurricane hitting New Orleans. He should have reviews done in the departments to ensure there are up to date plans for response for these kinds of things.

[Cleita]

2. I agree with you somewhat, but I'm not ready to place the blame on his shoulders yet.

Maybe in another year and half. This is his wake-up call. Let's see what he does to remedy this. We of course will have to keep pushing him to do these things.

[zipplewrath]

4. Blame is the wrong word anyway

It is more a case of being critical of the style. He's using a style of administering that isn't serving himself well. IN another 18 months, it would be the same problem, only worse.

[TheKentuckian]

6. Have to substantially agree

Can't look forward with heads to put to bed.

The President is a reluctant regulator and a believer in the status quo.

[zipplewrath]

10. I haven't found the word yet

Traditionalist or something comes to mind. He's an incrementalist. It's a philosophy grounded in the concept that the status quo is the place to start. He doesn't like turning on a dime, or reversing direction. He prefers broad turns and slight direction changes. All wheel, no brake.

I just can't quite find the right word.

[TheKentuckian]

11. He's an actual conservative. Not a radical regressive or a Reich reactionary

like a current day Republican.

Obama seeks to maintain the existing structures and systems but being intelligent realizes those systems and structures require maintenance and periodic updates to keep functioning so he offers plans to "reform" (repair) them.

Unfortunately the word conservative is now conflated with Republican and in whatever their current form is so when you say the guy is a conservative Michelle Bachman and Rush spring to mind and the whole conversation shuts down.

[zipplewrath]

26. Elements of that

I understand your definition of conservatism. I'm not sure he quite qualifies, if only because of their tendency away from government action. He seems perfectly comfortable with government action, just as long as it's not to "dramatic".

[LuvNewcastle]

3. I agree.

We shouldn't just be reactive to every disaster that comes along. There should be plans in place that would help to make us ready when the next thing comes along. I admit I didn't care for the creation of the DHS after 9/11. I thought it was big-brotherish and scary; but if we're going to have a DHS, we should put them to work at planning for disasters.

[Cleita]

5. I would prefer they changed the name and no doubt there is a culture

there from the Bush administration that needs to be changed. But we need something.

[FLPanhandle]

7. Obamas got some oil on his hands in this too.

True Bush/Cheney are drenched in it, but it would be disingenuous of me to say Obama has absolutely no fault in this.

He could have gone after MMS hard from the beginning (it's not like their corruption was a secret), and he could have installed more oversight and regulations before this happened.

In short, everything he's doing now could have been done over a year ago.

[LWolf]

8. The disaster is not his fault.

He is accountable for his response, which there is not universal agreement about, obviously.

What WILL be his fault are future disasters, since he's pushing for MORE off shore drilling, rather than less or none.

Of course, if everything in the gulf dies anyway due to this disaster, why not just leave it dead and make it an oilfield instead of an ocean habitat?

[Cleita]

9. Industry would love that. They so remind me of the corporation in

Avatar. Remember the CEO yelling about the tree. He wanted to destroy the tree they lived in because there are plenty of other trees they could move to. I can just hear those oil people saying that there are plenty of other oceans, the wildlife and people should just move there.

[LWolf]

25. Yes.

Hopefully, I didn't need the sarcasm smiley on that one.

It's kind of the same message land animals have been getting for centuries.

[Toucano]

12. It's not Obama's "fault", but he doesn't get a "pass" either.

15 months is enough time to get the MMS sorted out.

The administration knew what was going on in the department of interior before they took over.

Salazar had complete authority to review the permits. Stimulus money could have been directed to the department to get real safety inspectors out on the rigs.

The blame goes to BP. All evidence points the finger at them.

But the federal government had legal tools available that they were slow to use. Tools that might very well have prevented this disaster or at least mitigated the disaster.

[Cleita]

13. I'm not disagreeing with you and you outline the need to start taking

seriously the necessity of crafting and putting into effect robust emergency response plans and overturning the culture of corruption in those agencies who should have been doing this. However, I really think the last administration should bear the lion's share of the blame. They were the ones who deliberately set about dismantling everything that had to do with safety and the protection of the population and environment in favor of corporate cronyism and profits.

[Toucano]

23. 100% agreed.

I hope it serves as a shining example of the importance of strong regulatory agencies across the board.

The Tea Party and Libertarians have been getting a lot of press and people have begun to wonder if their ideas have merit.

Well, the answer is staring us in the face now, isn't it?

[w4rma]

14. He hired Rahm. That was his first screw up. And Rahm hired every DLCer he could.

DLCers tend to be know-nothing suits who rely on their connections with big moneyed interests to get themselves ahead. They are not that smart and they are not that creative. In fact they are quite incompetent except in the field of kissing moneyed interests' asses.

[Cleita]

15. I really wish the DLC would form their own party and leave ours to go back to

its roots of taking care of the working class and the underclasses. Maybe they can squeeze out the RNC that has turned into a fringe, looney cult IMHO. Maybe they can call themselves the Republican Leadership Council, because that is what they really are.

[Mimosa]

24. ^ Amen! After Rahm, the deluge ^

Yes to this, too:

"In fact they are quite incompetent except in the field of kissing moneyed interests' asses."

[Obamanaut]

16. When the drilling from these leases go bad, whom should we blame?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8578275&mesg_id=8578275

[Cleita]

20. I'm putting ninety percent of the blame on the former administration.

I think this administration is going to have to stop their foot dragging and put their foot firmly down on this industry.

[Obamanaut]

21. Think how nice it would have been to read/see "No new leases". It

is hard to picture leases that were signed in 2010 blamed on an earlier administration. Isn't it? And even if there is no drilling involved in all 400+ of them, there will be some, with the possibility of things going awry.

What with the time that has lapsed since the former group left DC, is it reasonable that they be blamed for stuff that went on after they left?

[Cleita]

22. This administration is guilty for favoring industry over people, however,

most of the blame is still with the other administration.

[newtothegame]

17. Not his fault, however...

The theme on DU for the 7 years following 9/11/01 was Bush should have known, or Bush did know. Even if the security failures had started before he took office, he had 8 months prior to 9/11/01 to get it right.

If we are going to fix the anti-regulation culture in Washington, D.C., if we are going to make sure this never happens again, we have to hold this administration to the same standard. President Obama was in office nearly twice the amount of time before the oil spill as Bush was before 9/11/01. The same standards hold true. Regarding oil rig regulation, or the lack thereof, he should have known, or did know, even if the failures in the regulation system started before he took office.

PUT ON THE PRESSURE TO REGULATE NOW!!!

[deaniac21]

18. Russian and Chinese invasion, pretty funny!! In 15 minutes from

launch both sides would have been incinerated.

[Cleita]

19. Since I lived at that time and was a member for a short time of the

Civilian Air Patrol (don't ask), the conventional wisdom was that those super powers and us too, wouldn't launch a nuclear war for the reasons you state. However, the military believed, in its usual paranoia, that a conventional war and invasion on our shores was possible, so they were prepared for it. Besides the infamous "duck and cover" films of that era, we also had films indoctrinating us into what we should do if more conventional war was brought to us. It turns out that the real enemy was us, but that preparedness served us later in following decades to manage not only wildfires, floods and earthquakes but also race riots and other unrest.

I remember the National Guard taking over the streets of Los Angeles in three days when the first race riot happened. And the only reason it wasn't sooner is because our politicians who should have been there to request their help were out of the state. The mayor was out of the country. But once they got their orders they were mobilized very quickly. There was that military response but also medical response and fire response immediately after the Guard secured the streets to make it safe for the secondary responders to do their job. I don't think there would be the same efficiency and coordination today, if the same thing happened. I didn't see it with Katrina and I don't see it now with this new disaster.

[Foo Fighter]

27. I have to disagree with you on this one.

I had a nice post written up and then my browser blew it away (I hate it when that happens). Since I don't feel like typing it in again, I'll give you the short version.

I don't think it should be the government's responsibility to clean up after man-made disaster but rather it should be the responsibility of the party (let's call it a corporation) that caused it. Having the government responsible in effect would give corporations free reign to do whatever they wanted, completely trashing a site, making the government clean up after them and then sticking the taxpayers with the bill. (Think Superfund.) The corporation should be entirely responsible for not only coming up with a plan but also for proving that it will work and having the necessary resources ready on a moment's notice to respond to the disaster. This has to be done before the project is ever approved. Government inspectors would be on site 24/7 to ensure they comply with all the rules and regulations. Any violation and the project is shut down immediately (and possibly permanently) and heave fines will be levied. And there needs to be STRICT rules and regulations. None of this rubber-stamping crapola. Anyone on a committee that approves a project that results in disaster gets fired and may face criminal charges, especially if the project blatantly should never have been approved.

Having the government on "stand-by" with a backup plan might not be a bad idea but again, all costs of the back-up from the planning to the implementation would be borne by the corporation.

Of course, this only works if you have a real government, not one that is bought-and-paid for.

I agree with you as far as natural disasters go.

[Cleita]

28. We, the people are the government, in a democracy. When a disaster happens,

for our own benefit, we need to respond regardless of whom is at fault. It's always better if we have a plan, not just a panic response. I'm not talking about letting these creeps off the hook. We need an immediate response team to handle stuff, a plan and part of that plan should be a stipulation in the licenses or contracts granted that the offenders pay for it. Let me put it this way. Your Libertarian way of looking at things, is that if there is a fire, the firemen should not put it out until it's decided who should pay for it. That really doesn't work too well and while you are deciding that, neighboring houses and neighborhoods go up in fire while everyone is dragging their feet. Unfortunately, the Katrina disaster has proved that this is not the way to go. This one has definitely decided it's not the way to go.

[Rage for Order]

29. What happened to the thorough reviews of government agencies?

http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=41022&dcn=todaysnews

September 22, 2008

Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama fleshed out his government reform agenda in a campaign appearance Monday, promising to fire managers of poor-performing programs and appoint a White House "SWAT team" made up of government professionals to review programs for waste and inefficiency.

Obama pledged to create a "high-performance team" to evaluate every federal agency and office. After such reviews, he said, "We will fire government managers who aren't getting results, we will cut funding for programs that are wasting your money, and we will use technology and lessons from the private sector to improve efficiency across every level of government -- because we cannot meet 21st century challenges with a 20th century bureaucracy."

http://www.dispatch.co.za/article.aspx?id=269768

US PRESIDENT-elect Barack Obama is sending teams of evaluators through the length and breadth of the sprawling US bureaucracy to help him reset the course of the ship of state on January 20.

Obama’s 450-strong transition team will scour more than 100 departments and agencies for data to underpin new policies as soon as his inauguration ushers in his historic presidency.



I guess his reviews found no problems in the Minerals Management Service, FEMA, or the EPA? Either the reviews he ordered found problems and he failed to correct them, or they missed the problems entirely. Either outcome is a failure. Sorry, no pass from me.

[Cleita]

30. You make a good point and you are right about a lot of this.

However, the dismantling of our safety nets and other precautions are not entirely on his shoulders. Very little is. I think he was so wrapped up in doing his health reform and bipartisan reaching out that he missed his mandate to purge all agencies of Bush personnel and Heritage Foundation ideology.

[Rage for Order]

33. I agree with you to a point

He did not dismantle the safety nets and precautions. However, he did say he was going to work to fix what wasn't working, and part of that was his review of every government agency. Like the sign in the Oval Office said when Truman was president, "The buck stops here".

[Cleita]

37. Aw if only he could be Truman or FDR, but he can't.

He is who he is and it seems we are going to have to figure out how to push his buttons.

[earth mom]

31. How in the hell can you give Obama a pass on this one when he has yet to seize control?!

And putting emergency response in place?! What a fucking joke!

Obama knows full well where all the national guard troops are and he has NOT called them home or stopped the genocide overseas.

You are in denial because you don't want to accept the truth about Obama!

Wake up and see the destruction that corporate america has wrought on this country and planet with the approval of the U.S government!

And in case you didn't notice Obama is doing JACK SHIT about it!

You and everyone in this country should question why!

This is OUR planet they are destroying-those fuckers do NOT own it!!! :grr:

[Cleita]

34. That's because there was no plan in place to begin with.

That was the job of those agencies like FEMA and Homeland Security to do. They didn't. It goes back to the Bush administration and maybe even Clinton.

[KonaKane]

35. Seize control of what, exactly?

No one can satisfactorily answer that.

[inna]

32. Just out of curiousity, has anyone even suggested that it was his fault?

I'm so sick and tired of people obsessing about Obama that I actually (to my own surprise) just unrec'd this - nothing personal at all, in fact I usually appreciate your posts a lot.

I'm just tired of people obsessing over Obama - while everything that is taking place is systemic.

[Cleita]

36. The problem is, that I don't obsess over Obama. I didn't vote for him

in the primaries and I did so reluctantly for President because it would have been awful to have McCain. I like him, but I didn't think he was ready to be President. I would rather have seen him be Vice President, to run for President after some seasoning. I thought about it a lot and this man is not responsible for this. His response shows that he needs more experience, but I'm not going there because Darth Cheney said the same thing today and I cannot give that man even a little credence. I'm suggesting that if first response and follow up had been in place before Obama became President, things would be different. But it was the previous three administrations who dismantled what we had that was first response and completion of the job. Obama's big sin was not to see this and how important it was to bring it together again.

Of course Bush got a big pass on Katrina and he really did nothing.