Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Torture Architect Feels Guilt For Abu Ghraib-But Says It Is "TIP OF THE ICEBURG" (Harpers)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 03:09 PM
Original message
Torture Architect Feels Guilt For Abu Ghraib-But Says It Is "TIP OF THE ICEBURG" (Harpers)
Edited on Thu May-10-07 03:14 PM by kpete
Tara McKelvey is the author of the new book Monstering: Inside America’s Policy of Secret Interrogations and Torture in the Terror War, which tells the story of the Abu Ghraib scandal and, more broadly, examines the pattern of detainee abuse in Iraq. McKelvey, a senior editor at The American Prospect and a research fellow at the NYU School of Law’s Center on Law and Security, lives in Washington, D.C. I recently asked her six questions about what she learned while researching her book.

1. The general story of the abuses at Abu Ghraib has by now been well covered. What has the media missed?

The media only focused on the photographs. They missed the fact that the abuse was systematic and that the worst things were not even shown in the pictures. That’s what my book is about: what happened beyond the frame of the Abu Ghraib photos. Thousands of detainees have gone through U.S.-run facilities in Iraq, but thousands more—anyone held for less than fourteen days—were never registered or tracked. Human-rights reports and interviews I conducted show that some of the worst abuses took place at short-term facilities—a police station in Samarra, a school gymnasium, a trailer, and places like that, where individuals were held for up to two weeks. It’s also important to remember that reports from the International Committee of the Red Cross, as well as numerous military documents, show that 70 to 90 percent of the detainees had no information that would have been useful to the troops.


................

4. Have those guilty of detainee abuse been held accountable?

More than 260 soldiers have faced punishment for detainee-related incidents since October 2001. Of those, nine individuals, all except one below the rank of captain, have been sentenced to time behind bars. Keep in mind, that’s just the military; meanwhile, there are about 100,000 contractors in Iraq, almost as many as there are troops. But only one contractor has been punished for a detainee-related crime, and that was in Afghanistan. Not a single contractor in Iraq has been punished. I doubt all those contractors are angels; we know, for instance, that several were implicated in the Abu Ghraib scandal—but those cases never went anywhere. This is not just a prison scandal. It’s a huge blow to America’s image and it’s something we’ll be dealing with for generations.


...............

3. What was Donald Rumsfeld’s role?

Rumsfeld has had a very lackadaisical attitude towards the Geneva Conventions. On February 8, 2002, he said, “The reality is that the set of facts that exist today with respect to Al Qaeda and Taliban were not necessarily the kinds of facts that were considered when the Geneva Conventions were fashioned.” On May 4 of 2004, after the pictures from Abu Ghraib were published, he told a journalist that the Geneva Conventions “did not precisely apply” in Iraq. There has also been testimony from people who say Rumsfeld got nightly briefings about what was gathered during interrogations.

More at:
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/05/hbc-90000032


McKelvey also argued that Abu Ghraib is only the tip of the iceberg for detainne abuse in Iraq.

Report: Torture architect feels guilt for Abu Ghraib

"Thousands of detainees have gone through U.S.-run facilities in Iraq, but thousands more—anyone held for less than fourteen days—were never registered or tracked. Human-rights reports and interviews I conducted show that some of the worst abuses took place at short-term facilities—a police station in Samarra, a school gymnasium, a trailer, and places like that, where individuals were held for up to two weeks," she noted.

more at:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Report_Torture_architect_feels_guilt_for_0510.html



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Off topic: kpete appreciation salute
I have went from one thread to another by you, each one very relevant and important. I salute your contribution to DU with a big thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. What you said.
kpete!

:kick:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Ditto n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. bush makes it easy
to document atrocities!

Peace to you DearAbby

kpete
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nannah Donating Member (690 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. hear hear. thanks kpete!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I'll second that!
kpete - thanks SO much!

:yourock: for ABSOLUTE sure! :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. woohoo Kpete
:woohoo:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. Me too DearAbby
I rarely post on Kpetes threads because I have nothing to contribute , but I ALWAYS read them
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. Admirable praise...
but please say "gone" instead of "went."

Thank you very much. Class dismissed for this week.


;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. They are running a series on the Spanish Inquisition on PBS
I cannot bear to watch it. These priests got into the torture business because it was such a lucrative stable job.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. The reputation of the church was forever stained by this
Does anybody seriously think America's reputation will ever come clean? I don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. I watched a few nights ago...
Edited on Fri May-11-07 08:25 AM by truth2power
and throughout the episode I kept thinking how it directly paralleled what the Bush Administration is doing, both in the events and the ideology.

It's as if Torquemada, et al, have been reincarnated in Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz etc. :evilfrown:



edit> Oh, and Recommended.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. I know a gay guy who is also a Catholic apologist and he claims
that the Spanish Inquisition never killed anyone. He says any killing that "may" have taken place was likely carried out by out of control mobs.

He challenged me to name one person killed or tortured by the Spanish Inquisition. I had to admit I didn't have a single name for him.

I told him if he's waiting for The Church to accept gays in exchange for exoneration for the inquisition, he got a long wait ahead of him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I don't know how some people manage their own arrangement of facts
If he is gay, you would think he would not be giving arguments in favor of the Catholic Church. There must be volumes and volumes of evidence on what the Inquisition did and to whom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have to wonder if the Abu Ghraib photos/videos that HAVEN'T been released...
...will EVER be released. From several sources, they depict some pretty heinous stuff.:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. There were reports of sodomizing 8 year old boys
One Senator or Congressman who saw the other pictures said, "Imagine the worst thing imaginable. It was worse than that." (or words to that effect)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Sy Hersch said the same...
:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. That the contractors walked away without
prosecution says alot

This administration has some sickos out there and its involved with them to let them go free
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. any wonder why the insurgents keep hitting us
and there seems to be an endless pool of recruits wishing to exact revenge on us in Iraq.
And never mind the occasional outright murder (or rape) of innocent civilians by troops in the field.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. "Torture, it's our republicon THANG." - Commander AWOL
"Now don't tell me you were expecting me and my republicon Boy-Os to act with honor?
Smirk, smirk, smirk. Republicons don't do honor.."

- Commander AWOL, Hero of the republicon Chickenhawk Skull & Boner Brigade

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. They all look alike to me...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Strangest thing though, the church keeps telling me
I'm not a good Christian (even godless) and I belong to the culture of death for being a democrat and voting democratic instead of republican. One of us is confused.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. If we join the International Criminal Court,
will we have to turn anybody in?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. Unless those who implemented the torture policy are held accountable and labeled
exactly what they are - war criminals - this will not "be something we'll dealing with for generations"


The US government has a penchant for sweeping the ugly under the rug, downplaying its own criminal behavior, and by claiming that anyone who speaks out against the criminal actions of America are lying because they "hate" America.

Without exposing the full truth and without holding the guilty accountable(Bush Inc)), America won't be "dealing" with it. America will continue to deny and blame a "few bad apples". America will continue to make excuses.








Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
15. Sorry Rummy. Geneva does "precisely apply" to US Code Title 18, 2441. War Crimes
Nothing to do with Iraq.

There is already-adjudicated (Hamdan) violation of http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002441----000-.html">United States Federal Law.

Not even a US NeoCon, with all his arrogated omnipotence, can make up those rules as he goes along. If he travels abroad, he can be abducted by just about anyone who can rightfully claim to have captured a fugitive war criminal.

Urinary Executive Theory** only applies to domestic fascism.


----
**Urinary Executive or Urinary Authoritarian Executive (slang, DCspeak)

n., (en)title -- the "newly-discovered," or "inherent" (i.e., faith-based) Constitutional Authority for an appointed ruler (as opposed to elected leader) to piss down the back of the American People and tell them it's raining.

See also, Trickle-Down Economics
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
17. recommend
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. No one has been held accountable for this war, for this administration, or
for our AWOL congress. Latest victim of the Washington Maxim "it didn't happen if we don't talk about it," Gen. Bastiste. Lalalalal. Can't hear you. Rome isn't burning and Washington isn't a cesspool if we don't acknowledge it.

4. Have those guilty of detainee abuse been held accountable?

...there are about 100,000 contractors in Iraq, almost as many as there are troops. But only one contractor has been punished for a detainee-related crime, and that was in Afghanistan. Not a single contractor in Iraq has been punished.


The assholes that brought us this war and our neo-privatized military have brought incalculable harm to our country, and not a lick of accountability.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
25. Abuses well covered?
Edited on Fri May-11-07 10:30 AM by Feles Mala
I know lots of people, who are now turning against this so-called war, who still think prisoner abuse began and ended with naked pyramids. They've not been challenged with the worst of it. They need to be better informed by our media lest the only thing future generations remember about us is this shame. Wouldn't it be nice to report to our posterity that the guilty parties were called to answer for these crimes by an informed populace?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
27. I'm still waiting for the child rape pictures to be released. WHERE ARE THEY? WHEN WILL THEY BE
RELEASED?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. can't they force this out with enough pressure?
I want them to show what they did to children in the name of "God" and "country". I really feel someone like Wes Clark, if he's not going to run for president, should demand a full and clear open use of the evidence and that these people who ordered it, then knew about it but wanted it covered up (if any did), be tried and imprisoned.

Wes, if somehow you ever have a friend read DU, maybe you're the one that can help salvage our place as an honorable country, b/c since the gestapo got into power, things have been UGLY and EVIL.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- check it out, top '08 stuff
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-11-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Wes Jr. is a DU member. :) He posted here often during the '04 Primaries.
Maybe he still reads here and will pass along your message..

The Pentagon has been holding up the pics because they KNOW how they'll be received by the public.:grr: Last I heard the Pentagon was ordered by a Judge to release them. That was a LONG time ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC