DU...Help me out here....My spouse and I just had an argument about cuts in Social Security

[whathehell]

He says: The cap can be raised, but even if you did away with the cap altogether, it still wouldn't raise enough money to close the gap. He claims that we will have to make a SMALL cut to even average earners which I oppose on principal.

I said: Why don't they just take the money from some other areaS, like the military?

He said: Because Social Security (he's unsure about medicare) is NOT part of "the budget" and therefore The Deficit and it would be a bad idea to put it in the General Fund, as it could be toyed with there.

I said: Well, then..Why are the discussing cuts at Obama's Deficit Reduction forum?

........................What say YOU, DU?

[sandnsea]

1. Uh, they "borrowed" our FICA

and they need to pay it back. Paying it back means it has to come out of "the budget". So yes, they could cut defense in order to have enough money to pay it back. If they reduced the deficit, they could also pay less in interest, which would make more money available to pay back the FICA borrowed.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

4. slight correction : WE borrowed the money

the 'they' in gov't is 'we'. we spent it on other crap...there is no 'they' to pay it back...

sP

[sandnsea]

8. Uh NO

THEY, being the rich who got the tax cuts and took the FICA SURPLUS, and then spent it on 1,000 different things that I would never approve, including the Iraq War and billions in corporate welfare.

Fuck no I did not spend that shit and Fuck YES "they" (the rich who got the tax cuts) are going to pay it back.

[SammyWinstonJack]

11. +1. nt

[ProdigalJunkMail]

12. yes...WE spent it...

you cannot have a gov't of elected officials and not be partly to blame for the spending. Did you ever vote for a democrat for president? then you voted for the spending too...like it or not...

sP

[whathehell]

19. Uh, thanks for the feedback!

[gateley]

2. Throw the bum out! His j.o.b. is to agree with you constantly.

Actually I don't have the answer but am reccing and kicking in hopes someone who actually knows comes along and answers your question. I'm curious, too.

[whathehell]

15. You're right, Gately....That is his j.o.b.....and I'm showing him this as a reminder!

Great post....and as you can see, I've got lots of responses to show him!

[sandnsea]

18. But Gately's post about the j.o.b.

is the most important. ;)

[whathehell]

20. I agree completely!

[abluelady]

3. Check Out This Site

http://usabudgetdiscussion.org/our-budget-our-economy-june-26/

I spent seven hours participating in this program yesterday. Social Security is definitely part of the budget.

[avaistheone1]

7. Ugh! That is the yucky Pete Peterson website where they are trying to undermine Social Security.

No thank you.


:spank:

[abluelady]

21. He May Want to Cut SS

But the 3500 participants didn't! Should be interesting.

[sandnsea]

16. Only when they want to CUT IT

When they want to talk about TAXES, then suddenly FICA doesn't count and they only talk about the federal income taxes that "poor people don't pay".

[panader0]

5. I have to agree with Jeannie at my house

She's told me many times that she's never wrong.

[Confusious]

6. They us social security to balance the budget ALL the time

hell, i bet some went to pay for little bushes wars.

[Bitwit1234]

9. If all the I.O.U.'s were cashed in that the federal government

holds especially from the Reagan administration Social Security would be solvent for years and years. And just think....all that interest that would have accured on that money. Gee gee gee, why do you think each administration wants to cut social security. So they can get out of paying the I.O.U.'s and I don't think they will ever be paid back.

[Ozymanithrax]

10. At Snopes they have a long discussion of Social Security myths and reality.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/changes.asp

Those funds are not part of the general fund, but the U.S. government loans those funds to itself and spends it however it wants.

[Hannah Bell]

13. 2.5 trillion is *owed* to social security. bush tax cuts to the top 1%

= 1 trillion over 10 years.

that's where the money is.

[MiniMe]

14. Social Security is still in the black

The federal government borrowed funds from it to close the budget gap. So those "worthless pieces of paper" that W used to talk about are really US Treasury bills. We will start taking out more than is coming in soon, but raising the cap should cover it. And the people who are getting ready to collect social security are the ones who have been paying in for their entire working life.

[whathehell]

17. WOW...!....thanks for all your great responses!...Can't read now, but can in a couple of hours.n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

22. How to win the argument:

He is using words where numbers must be. Ask him what the amount of money collected would be if the cap were done away with. He claims to know it is not enough, he must know how much it is, right? What if we raised the cap to 500k? What are the figures, not the rhetoric?
He's talking descriptors (not enough) where he should be giving figures. That indicates a lack of knowledge which means his opinion is simply not an informed one at this time. If he is right, he could show you math, not adjectives.

[Hannah Bell]

23. ask him also for the time frame. some of the numbers being thrown around are estimates for 75 years

or for "infinity".

both of which are obviously ridiculous, since the accuracy of financial estimates over a 75-year or infinite window are about 0%.

in 1983, reagan "reforms" of social security jacked up SS tax rates to generate a surplus over what was needed to fund retirees over 30 years -- supposedly so the boomers could "save" for their retirements.

that surplus was borrowed into the general budget & used to pay for tax cuts to the rich -- 1 trillion just in the bush years, just to the top 1%. those people get most of their income from capital investments, not wage labor -- so workers were effectively taxed to give the rich more money.

ask him why working people should be again taxed today to fund deficits which are theoretically going to occur 30-75 years in the future -- except to allow even *more* money to be borrowed into the general budget & let those clowns continue their theft.

job #1 is paying back the borrowed social security money -- which means raising income taxes on the rich.