Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

RIP Senator Robert C. Byrd

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 12:54 PM
Original message
RIP Senator Robert C. Byrd
The death of U.S. Senator Robert Byrd provides the progressive and liberal wings of the Democratic Party an opportunity to discuss some valuable lessons in the social-political arena. There will be numerous comments about the length of his political career in the “mainstream” media, and while these are appropriate at this time, they are not nearly as significant as the substance of his time in office. Rather, I would like to focus on a topic that is at times uncomfortable, yet due to its nature, far more important in terms of its potential for progress.

As has been mentioned today – and countless times in the past on this forum – Senator Byrd had a history that included being a member in the Ku Klux Klan. In fact, he had a leadership position, and was groomed as a young man for national leadership in the racist hate-group's agenda. More, even after he quietly separated from the KKK in public affairs, his most dangerous move is found when on Friday, March 29, 1968, he took to the Senate floor to attack Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., and to call upon the federal government to prevent King from carrying through with his planned “Poor People's Campaign” in Washington, DC. The text of that speech can be found in appendix two of “Murder in Memphis,” Mark Lane and Dick Gregory's 1977 book about the FBI and the assassination of King.

Had the story of his life continued on that ugly avenue, his final destination would be of no more interest or concern to me than the passing of a rabid dog . This is not to imply that I have “hatred” for rabid dogs: I do not. Yet, I understand the dangers they pose when they bite innocent people, trample the US Constitution, or lie the nation into a war. I accept the fact that rabies is a dangerous illness, that is difficult to treat successfully.

At the same time, I have learned that very bad people can change. Miracles happen, as Friend Rubin told me, it just takes a dog-gone lotta work. Or, as Chief Waterman taught me, the first Tadodaho had to be very bad as a young man, to become very good later in life. History tells of others, my favorite being Malcolm X. People can transform themselves, and make positive changes around them.

Senator Byrd's transformation was not “quick.” It did not take place overnight, in a year, or even in a single decade. He worked on personal growth throughout his adult life, and years in government. And, truth be told, he died an imperfect man, just as every other person who undergoes a positive transformation remains sad and weakly human. For, as the old Irish saying goes, a saint is merely a dead sinner, who has had their life edited for the history books.

One of the single most important books of our era is Byrd's 2004 “Losing America: Confronting a Reckless and Arrogant Presidency.” I enjoy his description of George W. Bush as the least competent person to ever hold the office of the president. More, I value his love for the US Constitution. But the most significant section of the book, in my opinion, was his documented description of VP Cheney's instituting the “shadow government” on the afternoon of 9/11. This was – and is – a form of government that puts all power in the hands of a part of the Executive Office that is beyond Congressional oversight, and placed unlimited power into the hands of select corporate “leaders.”

One need not be a “fan” of Senator Byrd to appreciate the importance of this book. However, one will have a difficult time in defining the most urgent problems that keep us from addressing the crises we face as a nation, without grasping what this book speaks of.

RIP, Senator Byrd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well said.
K & R :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thank you.
I hope this OP fits in with the others on Byrd that are getting attention here today.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. perfect pitch, water man
thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Thank you, My Friend.
I've loved that book, "Losing America," since I started reading the first page back in '04. I can't recommend it strongly enough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. An honest and fitting commentary.
knr.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Thank you.
I count myself as among the imperfect people who, after doing a heck of a lot of "bad" things in my early life, has invested energy in an attempt to become a better person, and to create some "good." So, I have never been shocked by Senator Byrd's life ..... though certainly, I was offended and concerned with his 1968 hate speech.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Thanks! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Staph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. This West Virginian thanks you for your kind words.
There have been many expressions of sorrow and remembrance today, and a few rude and hateful calls of "good riddance".

Robert Byrd was a complex man, a flawed man. But he was a very human man, a man who continued to grow and change throughout his 92 years. I would hope that all of us would aspire, not to be perfect, but to have the fortitude to see our own flaws and to work to change those flaws. And to lose the self-righteousness that only sees the flaws in others.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. It's a part of
human nature to see one's own faults far more clearly in others than in one's self. That very entrenched mindset is a stumbling block to personal growth. Some people go over it, others around it, and still others never go beyond it at all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent piece. It won't satisfy the grave dancers, but thanks for posting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Thank you.
I think there is so much anxiety, fear, and hatred in the current atmosphere, that we have to expect some folks to express negative emotions here, even when an old man dies. That doesn't really bother me. But the positive things being expressed on DU -- those certainly make me happy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Thank you! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Aw, I just logged on and yours was the 1st post I saw H2OMan. Thanks for the sad news
I appreciate your post and am glad I saw it before anything else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Thanks, KW.
I've got my copy of his book out this morning. No matter how many times I read it, I always find something "new" in it .... perhaps because of the "new" circumstances that it still applies to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beringia Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
17. It is because of your OPs and comments
that Senator Byrd's name rings a bell. The idea of growth and change is an interesting one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. "Losing America"
is definitely worth reading.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thank you. Everything you said rings true for all of us.
Edited on Mon Jun-28-10 02:00 PM by bobbolink
You gave me a deeper appreciation for Malcolm X, and his life is certainly one to remind us of our own feet of clay.

Imperfect tho he was, Sen. Byrd's tenure in the Senate was a blessing to this nation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. The last half
was good for many, though certainly not all, people in this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. For those of us who are gay his life did continue on that path
As has been mentioned today – and countless times in the past on this forum – Senator Byrd had a history that included being a member in the Ku Klux Klan. In fact, he had a leadership position, and was groomed as a young man for national leadership in the racist hate-group's agenda. More, even after he quietly separated from the KKK in public affairs, his most dangerous move is found when on Friday, March 29, 1968, he took to the Senate floor to attack Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., and to call upon the federal government to prevent King from carrying through with his planned “Poor People's Campaign” in Washington, DC. The text of that speech can be found in appendix two of “Murder in Memphis,” Mark Lane and Dick Gregory's 1977 book about the FBI and the assassination of King.

Had the story of his life continued on that ugly avenue, his final destination would be of no more interest or concern to me than the passing of a rabid dog . This is not to imply that I have “hatred” for rabid dogs: I do not. Yet, I understand the dangers they pose when they bite innocent people, trample the US Constitution, or lie the nation into a war. I accept the fact that rabies is a dangerous illness, that is difficult to treat successfully.

end of quote

But I realize we don't really count when it comes to bigotry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. You are starting to hurt your cause.
I don't know of anyone on DU, myself included, who is not a staunch supporter of gay rights. But I have to tell you something - some of you are beginning to hurt this cause. Let me tell you the top two reasons for this, in my view:

* Hyperbolic victimization
"But I realize we don't really count when it comes to bigotry." What in the hell is that supposed to mean? The push for equal rights and privileges for GLBT is enormous, and popular. In just about every form, the gay community is more mobilized and vocal for their cause than any other group in the penumbra of civil rights. When you make such embarrassingly lame claims as yours, it gives the impression that you are not living on the same planet as the rest of us.

* Myopia
GLBT rights are a part of the greater ongoing civil rights struggle in this country. I don't know if you are aware of it or not, but civil rights gains for Blacks, Latinos and Women have really taken a few hits over the last couple of decades thanks to conservative rule. They matter too, my friend. When all you ever take umbrage to is your personal part of the greater struggle, you appear self centered, socially/politically myopic and you alienate support you should have. When you want to toss a persons entire life in the ash can (Sen. Byrd) - even all the good that they did - because they aren't in 100% agreement with your personal issue, you come across again as selfish, vindictive, nasty and unconcerned about the greater goals of liberalism/progressivism.

Do you really want that? I've got my eye on the big prize - a more egalitarian, respectful, positive and enlightened society. What do you have your eye on?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. -1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Predictable.
Lame, substanceless and void of thought...but predictable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. I don't want his life tossed into the trash can
but I also don't want to be lectured about how he changed. He didn't change on gay rights. If you want to present him as a flawed human that is one thing. But to present him as the archtype of changing from bigotted to non bigotted, when he only did that with respect to blacks but not toward gays is saying gays don't count. You can pretend it says something else, but it still says it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Your pissing on the grave of a man who died less than 24 hours ago says otherwise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. I am not pissing on his grave
but I am equally not going to allow a person with his record on gay rights to be portrayed as enlightened on civil rights.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. Anyone that says that is not on board to start with.
It should be everyone's cause.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #40
56. Civil rights are my cause. Among many.
And included in civil rights are gay rights. They do not exist outside of that, or at the expense of everything else. If you refute that, then I would not want to be "on board" with you under any circumstance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I guess his support of the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell in 2010...
.... compared to his 1992 comment that the reason the Roman Empire fell was because of homosexuality doesn't really count changing his path, either.

Nor was the reversal in 2002 when he voted yes on adding attacks motivated by the victim's sexual orientation to the hate crime's law when he voted against it in 2000.

While Kona may have made his point somewhat harshly in response to you, there is one thing in his statement I agree with -- that progress in one area of civil rights will lead to progress in others. The abolitionist movement and the suffrage movements helped each other by working together, and many blacks and women march with the GLBT community in support of equal rights for all. Gay rights are human rights. Women's rights are human rights. ALL civil rights are human rights, and standing up for them helps advance all of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. actually he sort of supported repeal
at his insistance it would be delayed for 60 days after the study and could be reinstated in that time. I think he was likely going to work for that reinstatement in what would quite likely then be a GOP house an or Senate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. If you believe he believed in 2011 we'd have a Republican Senate and/or House...
.... and you believe we might, all I can ask is that you please work to help keep that from happening.

But it's still progress from saying he'd never let his son serve in a military that admitted homosexuals. I'm not defending his abhorrent behavior in opposing civil rights (and I include gay rights in the term "civil rights" and his KKK membership in his youth) -- but at least there was some progress in the man.

It's sad that the bar had to start so low for me to consider his later years as progress, however.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Thank you. But, it won't make a dent in the Single Issue crowd.
Their wanton myopia is just astounding.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. You might feel differently if that single issue was your life and the wellbeing of your family.
And there is no need to make a dent on people fighting for equality or to insult them. At that point, you are hurting your own point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Let me say that if this were say real civil rights
Edited on Mon Jun-28-10 04:43 PM by dsc
like for real people, he wouldn't call us single issue. But since we aren't real people, it is just a fake, single issue. Message recieved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Why is it that you are the only one claiming that Gays are not real people?
Seriously, you are the only one I've seen express that over and over again. No one else has.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. When viewed from the dizzying heights of heterosexual privilege, our "little pet issues"
just aren't such a big deal, I guess.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. All the major issues of our day have a bearing on the well being of my family
I don't toss the rest out because of one, or alienate my allies because of that either. It would be stupid to do so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Valid point.
Thank you for your contribution to this thread. I absolutely agree that Senator Byrd was imperfect, and certainly not to be confused with one who represented all that we should demand of an elected representative. My comments were focused one one huge area -- his racist past -- and not intended to imply that he had made progress in many other areas.

When it came to gay lifestyle, Native American rights, environmental protection, and numerous other equally important areas, he was not able to consciously expand his own narrow concepts of Constitutional rights. Both my extended family and I exist in a society that is similarly lacking in these very areas of protection. I do not discount them.

Both individual and group rights/protections are indeed the core of that Bill of Rights that is as much a part of the Constitution as any other. It is not only shallow, ignorant, and foolish to ignore the need to create a confederacy of such groups and individuals -- and not leave groups that we do not "relate" to out of that consciousness -- it is ultimately self-defeating. We cannot afford that at this time in our history as the human race.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
49. Thanks for that and just one minor suggestion
You probably are not aware of this but the term "gay lifestyle" is offensive and used by the religious right in an effort to stigmatize GLBT persons. I know you did not intend that at all - just wanted to point it out:)

Thanks for a very interesting thread. Heres to hoping many of the people in power who still hold these old racist, and homophobic views will progress past them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Thanks.
Point taken -- and appreciated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
63. I agree the OP tells half the tale as if it were the whole
and I am surprised to see that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. If not for imperfect men we'd have nothing to talk about
and little to learn and that would be terrible, wouldn't it?

Senator Byrd was able to imagine and encompass an America that the Republican leadership still today cannot, even though they are all much younger people. I'm happy he lived to see Obama's election.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Right.
Not a heck of a lot of perfect people these days, or any time in human history.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. And that's why internet discussion boards are a natural!
lol

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. Best comment on his life so far today!

What will any of us be saying, or doing, or have done at that age?

Remarkable man.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GlennWRECK Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
39. Thanks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
41. Byrd never changed. He just got a little smarter about what he could say in public.
A little smarter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. This is what I love about DU - all the talented mind readers.
The ones who have some sort of superhuman ability to climb into the recesses of someone else's mind and heart and determine what they really are.

Breathtaking, really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Didn't have to read his mind. His words were enough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Forget his deeds, who needs those. We have something he did at 24 to worry about!
Oh, and he doesn't support *MY* issue, so to hell with him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. He preached about the sins of homosexuality and used racial slurs into his old age.
What is *MY* issue?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. his "white n*gger" comment was not racial if you watch the whole interview
And yes he was not kind to Gay people, which was a bad thing. But you cannot toss out all he did because of one issue.

YOUR issue is whatever people who focus on one to the exclusion of others, choose. Thankfully, I don't know what that's like because I am not a single issue activist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crazyjoe Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
62. ding ding ding !!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #41
75. Did you know him personally? I cannot imagine anyone making
such a definitive statement about another person unless they were privy to at least a private confession on the part of the person being spoken for. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
47. When I heard of Senator Byrd's passing...
one of the first things I thought of was when Barry Goldwater passed away several years ago. Here were two men that believed in some things I am diametrically opposed to, but over time, I watched both men change; the change was slow, but it was change. When Byrd was coming of age in WV, it was almost "mandatory" to join the Klan if you planned on making anything out of yourself in the future. People are not born with hatred and bigotry, these are learned, and usually from a very early age. As people mature, they can change, they can see that a road taken often is filled with all types of traps and perhaps a better road should be found.

During the 30s,40s and 50s, the Klan was huge, thousands of Klansmen marched in DC, NY, Chicago and other places, they drew crowds of thousands of onlookers and even though many of those who stood on the sidelines, some were enamored by the KKK, some despised them and some...just didn't care one way of the other. Over time, the Klan has become a mere shell of it's former self; like most hate groups, they run out of "basic" hate, and have to escalate in order to bolster their ranks and embolden those already in the ranks.

On another tack, I saw Barry Goldwater in his last years as someone who had changed as well. He became much more affable, and while a true conservative, he was appalled when the neo-cons took over. In a live interview in AZ when I lived there, he was asked, "what do you think of the Republicans that have taken over congress?" His answer was classic Goldwater, "These aren't Republicans, they're shitheads!. Goldwater had his faults, but it would be hard for me to see him allowing the GOP to drive the nation into the hole financially, as the "shitheads" did.

My point through all of this is that people change when they realize that their pov is no longer viable. Byrd changed, Goldwater changed...and while the Boehner's and McConnell's won't change, they will be vilified as the evil bastards they are.

Byrd through off his robes...Goldwater tossed outdated racial views aside, and for that, I give them credit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. Right.
A few years back, I saw a documentary on BG. I noted that he had changed some of his most offensive stances, and found myself laughing .... because I realized that, without those, he didn't seem to be the person who I remembered. He certainly was not as toxic or repulsive as the current brand of right-wing republicans. I'm also reminded that he is someone John Dean continues to have great respect for.

There was a time that I felt John Dean was far, far beyond redemption as a person, too. I still do not find him likeable as a person, nor anyone who I'd care to know. But I do enjoy reading some of his books, such as "Worse Than Watergate." I suppose that it's possible that I've changed a tad in the past few decades, too, as in the 1970s, I wouldn't have considered reading any of his books, or watching a documentary on Goldwater.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. There is something deeply disturbing about some who claim to be liberals
unable to accept that deep and lasting change is possible with humans. It smacks of the worst of.....conservatism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Way long ago,
when Onondaga Chief Waterman was talking to me about taking up a certain position, I remember him saying that in order to do it properly, I'd have to have a very thick skin. Of course, we discussed what that meant. It includes accepting that because I may be at one place on the route my life takes, others were not going to be at the same place. And that it wasn't going work if I expected that what made perfect sense to me, to make any sense at all to everyone else.

Likewise, what makes perfect sense to others doesn't always seem clear, accurate, or right to me. But I try -- not always with success -- to understand that other people's truthes are as important to them, as mine are to me. And one of those truthes that I do understand, although from personal experiences different than some of those on this thread who take a position different from mine, is that the rejection and hatred from a larger social group/society causes frustration and anger.

There's plenty of room for everyone who has commented on this thread. We all have strengths and weaknesses. A sign of strength will be if we learn to appreciate each other's views, even if we disagree with them, and create a supportive, inclusive coalition/confederacy. A sign of weakness will be if we close our minds, and believe that only our opinion is right and thus of value.

We're all in this together. And in the final analysis, it is only by changing that we can create meaninful change.

Peace, and thank you for your contributions on this thread!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Beautifully put.
"We're all in this together. And in the final analysis, it is only by changing that we can create meaninful change."

I cannot say it better than that, so I won't try.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Well, thank you.
I suspect we're saying about the same thing on this thread. I just talk more! (Some things are hard to change!)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
S n o w b a l l Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
57. I will miss him. RIP Senator Byrd
And I'll never forget his fabulous speeches to the lead up to the Iraq war.

And as someone who's fought racism all my life, I forgive him for his early mistakes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. I was impressed
with his opposition to the invasion and war of occupation in Iraq. His highly accurate description of the Chimp and Cheney's lies that brought the nation to war in Iraq in the book "Losing America" are outstanding.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
USA_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
64. Percentage of Black Vote
Does anyone know what percentage of the Black vote did Byrd get every year?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #64
73. I do not. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
65. Yeah, well we are all mixed bag, but 'transformation'?
Only if you ignore so much of his horrible invective against gay people which went on and on, and really never stopped. I think you should do some reading, sir. No he was not all bad, I suppose. But I see no reason to pretend he was what he was not.
I wish him well on his journey, but I am not going to agree that he was transformed. Sorry about that. Not after he voted against AIDS funding because there were no gay people in West Virginia. This was 20 years forward from his blasting of Dr King.
When was the transformation supposed to have happened, exactly?
We have different perspectives, different times of activism, different priorities, and I consider my people equal to others, and thus bigotry against us as equal to bigotry against others.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #65
72. Thank you
for your contributions to this thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
66. i Loved Senator Byrd. Intuitively, without knowing anything but his true face.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #66
71. I liked that
he always carried a copy of the Constitution with him. It is true, as others have pointed out on this thread, that he did not have a full appreciation for recognizing the rights of all individuals and groups. Yet his example of changing in terms of his previous hatred for black Americans is important.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-28-10 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
67. Agree. In my own "Journal" on this site, I spoke of someone who can change...
...it happens.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. Right.
It should be a common goal. It is only when we make positive changes within, that we can create positive changes around us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
68. Excellent -- It is so inspiring to me to see a person who can admit wrong
and change themself to become a better individual and member of society.

I've read some opinions today to the effect that people can only achieve personal growth in their youth -- that it is too late to undertake it in late adulthood. That's nonsense. It is never too late. If it was, we may as well just quit when we get to 40.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. If we spend
a day, week, month, or year without undergoing personal growth, then we have wasted a day, week, month, or year of our lives. And that's a shame. We only get one turn on this beautiful rock, and that turn involves a number of spins around the sun that we can't be sure of. It's best to make use of our time here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
74. I appreciated his stand against going to war...
and remembered being very surprised he was seemingly all alone in his call for more review before we marched off to Iraq.

As always, a thoughtful essay. Many thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC