Yes, we NEED more hand guns in this country, murder rate per 100,000 population....

[KansasVoter]

United States 5.4
Israel 1.9
Canada 1.8
France 1.6
United Kingdom 1.5
Australia 1.2
Ireland 1.1
Greece 1.0
Germany .8
Japan .5
Iceland .3

But remember, the countries below us are not free like we are!!!
And once we can all carry concealed weapons, I am sure our murder rate will drop!!!

[RB TexLa]

1. I have weapons but I'm not doing anything to lower the murder rate unless it's my wife

anyone else is on their own, my gun stays put and that includes for myself.

[KansasVoter]

2. Wow, why carry one? Are you that scared?

[RB TexLa]

3. I changed, I don't carry it on my person all the time. I am not going to live with having killed

someone unless I am saving her. Other than that it's not worth it.

[miscsoc]

4. Hell, I'd be scared if I lived in the U.S.

Lookit those murder figures

[RB TexLa]

5. I live in Louisiana it's around 12 per 100,000. It's just part of the culture here.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

95. Apparently not as scared as you are.

[EstimatedProphet]

75. It's the RB TexLA Show!

Today, RB shows off his shooting prowess!

[RB TexLa]

78. By saying there is only one person I would attempt to defend with a gun

Ok, if you say so.

[X_Digger]

6. And yet, crime is at a 30 year low

[KansasVoter]

12. Yes, handguns caused that. LOL. Murder is OK with you?

[X_Digger]

15. Handgun ownership is up, yet crime is down..

Please quote me saying that murder is OK with me.

[KansasVoter]

18. Yes, the internet has also expanded. Maybe that is the cause of crime going down?

How in the world does your brain explain how countries with very few guns have lower crime and murder rates?

[X_Digger]

21. How does your brain equate the two?

Our non-gun homicide rate is higher than other countries' total homicide rate. No guns in those, STILL higher than other countries INCLUDING guns.

Absent guns, what makes you think we wouldn't still be much higher than other countries?

[KansasVoter]

24. So guns don't cause any of it? The gun culture does. And people like you defend it.

[X_Digger]

26. "gun culture" causes non-gun homicide?

Now whose brain needs a tune-up?

Personally, I think what causes it is our lack of an effective social safety net, our overly materialistic culture that equates "worth" with "how much stuff you got", lack of sufficient mental health care, and the war on {some} drugs.

[KansasVoter]

30. The Gun culture is an issue. You don't want to admit it.

[X_Digger]

31. Have anything concrete to back that up, or is it all hyperbole and piffle? n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

76. Yes

My problem with gun banning is exactly what you outlined. IMO the problem with the idea of "let's just get rid of all the guns, and the problem will go away" is that it is a bandage on a gaping wound. Gun banning as an end in itself will end up being a way for people to avoid doing the real work in making things better in our country. It's designed to allow people to feel like they did something about the problem. Meanwhile, the underlying issues that cause gun violence in the first place don't get addressed, because everyone becomes focused on using gun banning to fix our problems.

[L0oniX]

17. Murder is ok with everyone ...that's why we don't give a shit about the deaths of the innocent...

in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[proteus_lives]

34. The authoritarians hate facts!

They don't mesh with their control fantasies.

[Taitertots]

7. People who don't know about statistics are funny

Why don't you put Mexico up there?

[KansasVoter]

13. I guess I put up countries up there that I would not mind living in. Move to Mexico if you want.

[RB TexLa]

25. What exactly is bad about living in Mexico?

[timo]

61. hmmmmmm

the cartels waging war on the police,army,navy, crooked politicians,corrruption on a level that boggles the mind, getting your hunting camp burned down by cartel memembers and having zero recourse, a weak peso, shady laws enforced at the whim of whichever law enforcement group happens to be in charge that day,.....just for starters

[Taitertots]

29. I thought it was because you wanted your sample to be biased and your results meaningless n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

77. So why isn't Switzerland up there?

[librechik]

14. USA still outguns Mexico and Brazil for gun deaths--Oh look at that socialist guncontrolling Spain

way at the bottom of the list, but still not as GSW death free as my fave, the Netherlands.

pfft

[Taitertots]

28. You might want to double check those numbers for Mexico

[librechik]

35. Gun Deaths ranked by country

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=6166

[Taitertots]

38. Those numbers are more than 15 years old

Those numbers are also radically different from those listed in the OP. Edit:I see you included suicides in your figures.

[librechik]

42. 1998 is not more than 15. And as you know, those numbers have not declined

and they are the latest numbers available.

[Taitertots]

43. Those numbers are from 1994, but you would know that if you bothered to read it

And those are not the latest numbers.

[librechik]

46. Ok, then. What are the latest numbers?

Your point is that Mexico is far more violent gunwise/murderwise than the US. What is your source for this assertion?

[timo]

62. hinky numbers

we have a larger population than mexico as well, at least a few million of there population live here!!!

[MyNameGoesHere]

85. You want to compare

a country with an ongoing narco-war and rebel opposition with a supposedly peaceful lawful country? Why not Canada? That seems a more even footing. Well?

[superduperfarleft]

88. Why not the UK? They have a higher violent crime rate than the US. n/t

[MyNameGoesHere]

91. sorry thought the discussion was about gun violence.

But if you want to go down that rabbit hole We're number two!!!! Now that's something to be proud of.


But when it comes to sticking with the gun discussion we are number four. We really need to try harder. But on the bright side in almost 50 other countries your chances of getting gunned down are less.


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

[superduperfarleft]

92. The anti-gun crowd wants to talk about "fear," but are you really that afraid of falling victim

to gun violence, so much so that you want to ban them? Where I come from, as long as you're not selling drugs, you have more to worry about crossing the street.

[MyNameGoesHere]

94. Can't ban stupidity.

Part of me would like to see no guns, and the other part of me would like to see all people with guns have a out and out shoot em up with each other. Get em all in a cage and well you know 2 men in and one man out. The winners get to go on vacation in one of our endless wars. See. problem solved.

I lived in Germany for a number of years and the gun regulations are pretty strict. They actually make it harder to own a gun than to get a drivers license, and getting a drivers license is pretty damn hard. But I never felt fear or insecurity walking anywhere in the country. Here not so much, gotta wonder if that guy that just got the wrong order at the restaurant is going to go postal with his concealed weapon.

[Obamanaut]

8. Are the murders by any method other than handguns included? Stabbing?

Whacking with sticks and staves? Poisoning?

[X_Digger]

10. Slicing with broken pub glasses? Kitchen knives?

^ Just two of the things being tsk'ed about in Union Jack (ex-)territory(ies).

[aikoaiko]

9. Maybe we need more guns or maybe we don't. We sure as hell don't need more unconstitutional laws.

Today's Supreme Court decision on the McDonald case was not support for more guns or less per se, but rather a defense of civil rights.

[Statistical]

47. +1. Someone sees the larger issue.

You can be 100% "anti-gun", never intend to ever own a firearm and still recognize until repealed the 2nd IS A RIGHT. Period. If the govt can trample, ignore, or do an end run around it then it can do the same for any other right.

Any day that SCOTUS reaffirms that the Bill of Rights means something is a good day.

[slackmaster]

11. I don't need anyone else telling me what I need or don't need

HTH

[L0oniX]

16. ...and let's make sure we spend everything we got on the military too.

[harry_pothead]

19. A colleauge of mine says that an armed society is a polite society.

[Art_from_Ark]

39. Your colleague should visit Kazakhstan

A geologist friend of mine went there a couple of years ago and reported that it was like stepping into the Wild West

[Odin2005]

20. "Gun Control" was started by racists scared of the Black Panthers.

Funny that.

This is a cultural and socioeconomic issue, nothing to do with guns.

[X_Digger]

22. Even before that..

.. you had Jim Crow laws in the post-reconstruction era (see "Black Codes", Freedman's Bureau Act, and the text surrounding the 14th amendment.)

The 1960's reaction to "race riots"? Laws permitting confiscation of firearms during "declared emergencies".

[superduperfarleft]

86. You and I rarely agree on anything ever...

but that is the EXACT point I make to lefties who preach revolutionary change, and yet expect to do it with drum circles and hand holding. I wonder if the gun-grabbers on the left would be standing with Reagan and the racist CA senate who was looking to disarm the Panthers back in the day.

[timo]

23. taking ccl class

I am taking the concealed carry class this weekend, I live on the border 6 miles of the river, damn skippy I am nervous I am often out on the farm late in the evening and and at night, tooooooo many home invasions in my area, to many idiots out there in the world.

[Dappleganger]

50. Good for you.

[timo]

59. really?

I have to ask because snarkasm runs rampant around here, I just feel that I have put a lot of long hours into building this farm (tree farm/nursery) and I want to be around to see my kids enjoy it...GOD FORBID BUT BY WHATEVER MEANS NEEDED!!!

[Dappleganger]

97. Yeah!

Read my sig. ;)

I've had my ccw since January...best thing I ever did.

[KansasVoter]

81. Add you to the list!

[timo]

84. what list??

what list??? and who put you in charge of compiling these lists?

[Skip Intro]

27. No. If they were all murder by stabbing, would you want to ban steak knives?

I'll tell you this, if someone is breaking into my house in the middle of the night, I'd rather have a gun than not have a gun.

[proteus_lives]

32. I love living in a country where we have the choice and the right....

To carry/own a firearm if we so choose.

[Lucian]

33. People don't NEED guns.

People NEED food, water. Not guns.

[proteus_lives]

36. People don't NEED the right to vote or religious freedom either.

Want to give those up?

[Lucian]

40. That's not the point.

The point is, guns aren't a necessity.

[proteus_lives]

41. It is the point. It's about choices and rights.

How many of those will you give-up to feel "safe"?

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proteus_lives]

52. I'm not going to alert on this.

Even though you resort to insulting terms because you can't back-up your argument.

"Want to protect yourself? Take a martial arts class. Learn Ninjitsu"

Ahh, that old canard. Should a 5'0, 100 pound woman be forced to box with someone who has a 100 pounds and a foot on her?

"but I'm already bored."

Of course you're bored, you lost.

[Lucian]

53. I lost nothing.

In reality, you lost. You never proved why anyone needs a gun. You only proved why someone may WANT a gun. There's a difference.

I'm bored because this conversation is deja vu, all over again. I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mine. I have better things to do than argue this crap.

[proteus_lives]

58. I accept your surrender.

You haven't proved that no one needs a gun. You've only proved that some people want to strip the rights from their fellow citizens.

Go on, you must have better things to do then lose here, over and over.

[X_Digger]

37. Thank goodness it's not the Bill of Needs then. n/t

[Statistical]

48. That is why it is called a bill of rights not bill of needs.

The honest truth a totalitarian Police state would have much less crime. Unlimited Police authoriy, ability to stop/seize/search without warrants. No protection of speedy trial, no rights to not testify against yourself, ability to use torture to solve crime.

All those things would reduce crime. Our rights enable criminals to go free every day. However it is a Bill of Rights not needs/wants/wishes. The rights exist and pre-date the Constitution.

[Lucian]

54. Way to come up with your own response there.

:thumbsup:

[Dappleganger]

49. If YOUR rights were being trampled upon

and the courts were stacked, democracy had died (no representation) and the police state crazies were coming to take into custody, you would think differently. Remember the days of lynching are not far behind us. Guns are the great equalizer when reason fails and justice is carried out by the tyranny of the mob.

[Lucian]

55. That's already happened, FYI.

Perhaps you don't remember the Bush Administration? Patriot Act?

I'll worry about gun rights when GLBTs get their rights first. Priorities, after all...

[NeedleCast]

93. You don't seem to understand the concept of rights

At least not as spelled out in the Bill of Rights.

[Dappleganger]

98. All GLBT's should carry too.

[Kringle]

70. bless Iran .nt

[Canuckistanian]

44. Canada has always banned handguns

And yet, we remain alive and unafraid of our safety.

How can that be?

[proteus_lives]

51. Canada doesn't ban handguns.

[Canuckistanian]

56. Name one Canadian who has a legal handgun

Outside of law enforcement officials. There are special permits, but civilians are not allowed to carry a handgun.

[proteus_lives]

57. Don't know any Canadians off the top of my head.

But they're restricted, not banned.

[spin]

67. I knew two Canadians who used to winter in St Pete Florida ...

every Saturday they would show up at my pistol range to shoot. Both had their own handguns which I assume they owned.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spin]

64. I don't consider myself cowardly merely because I own firearms ...

nor do I consider you cowardly if you don't.

I've known some very courageous people in my life. Owning or not owning firearms has little to do with courage or cowardice.

But it's fun to state popular misconceptions and falsehoods. It's good for your ego. The drawback is that it fails to impress knowledgeable people.

[depakid]

65. Most of this is driven by irrational fear- hence the term cowardly

this despite the facts that the research shows that the decision to bring guns into the house "for protection" actually increases the person and member's of their household chances of becoming victims (or perpetrators) of violent crime or tragedies.

Of course, houses aren't enough- the fear and cowardice among these types extends to schools, businesses and national parks. Even airports.

[spin]

66. I have had firearms in my house for many years ...

since I enjoy target shooting.

I always have at least one of my handguns loaded in my home just in case of an emergency.

Years ago when I lived in Tampa my daughter used a revolver to stop an intruder who was forcing the sliding glass door of our home open. I had a burglar alarm which was sounding and a 60 pound Labrador Retriever inside the house. If you and I had had a discussion before that incident, I might have agreed with you that having a loaded firearm in my home was irrational.

But I learned a valuable lesson from the incident. I realized that I can take reasonable precautions and live in a good neighborhood and still face the possibility of having an intruder. What you consider irrational fear and cowardice quite possibly saved my daughter's life.

So I still have loaded firearms in my house. I don't expect I ever will have to use them, but experience has taught me that you can't always predict what might happen and it's wise to be prepared.

So you are free to have any opinion of me that you want. You can't insult me and you can't change my mind.

I will avoid trying to change your mind as that would be futile. Chances are that you will travel through your life without ever having a reason to own or use a firearm.

I sincerely hope so.

[depakid]

68. I sincerely hope that you're not among the statistics

Which attempt scientifically to attribute risks among one sort of deal or another.

-not every unvaccinated child gets Pertussis, and that makes attitudes like the ones you express quite difficult to overcome.

[Kringle]

71. tell that to the Jews .nt

[superduperfarleft]

89. Trying to talk sense into the statist gun-grabbing crowd doesn't work.

They'll only use this as an excuse to say, "See those Black Panthers marching on the California legislature! We'd better ban guns quick!"

[Dank Nugs]

63. An armed society is a polite society. Deal with it. n/t

[DainBramaged]

69. I disagree and YOU are impolite.

[old mark]

72. Yet more raving nonsense. Check your facts and get over your hysteria.

The anti-gun lobby ( ALL founded by republicans)had been feeding you lots of lies to promote its position and get yur money...and incidentally cost the Democrats votes for their irresponsible anti-gun rhetoric and idiotic waste of time "gun control" measures such as the microstamping fiasco in NY.

Get over it - you are wrong.

mark

[depakid]

73. err... sorry Mark- they're right

on the facts.

Projection and irresponsible reactions like yours aside.

[DainBramaged]

74. When presented with facts to disprove the theories that guns are as safe as swiss cheese

the gun lobby reacts with shout downs and more lies.

They won't be happy until guns are sold in grocery stores. I wish they were as fervent about real important life issues.

[KansasVoter]

80. Lol, the murder rate is wrong?

[X_Digger]

82. Psst.. it's been going down, not up..

.. even as the number of guns and the percentage of gun ownership creeps up.

[slackmaster]

83. A snapshot comparison of murder rates among different countries really doesn't tell you anything...

...with respect to how those rates are influenced by gun laws or rates of gun ownership.

Changes over time, compared with objective measures of gun ownership, would be far more meaningful. US murder rates have always been about three times those of England and Wales, and of Australia. Many changes to gun laws have occurred in all three areas. If draconian restrictions like they have in the UK really worked to improve public safety, the ratio of their murder rate to that of the US should have dropped. But it hasn't.

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. Amen

[superduperfarleft]

87. *cough*

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html



"The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609."

[ensho]

90. I agree with you and recc but of course it stayed at 0

nt

[NHLrocks]

96. we have more people