Civil Unions will Destroy the Family

[BOSSHOG]

Heard on NPR this morning. It was a resident of France making that statement. They have some legislation promoting civil unions. Obviously France has its share of fucking morons.

Wow, my marriage will be ruined and I'll turn to alcohol and end up penniless and in the gutter if gays are allowed to pursue liberty and happiness. If that actually did happen to "conservatives", civil unions and gay marriage might have an added side benefit.

[BushOut06]

1. Obviously...

Look who they just voted into office.

[havocmom]

2. The only way it could hurt...

if closeted gays who are wearing marriage to a woman as a beard are forced to pick between wives and lovers?

That's the only theory my pea brain can come up with on how it could POSSIBLY be a threat.

Personally, what ruined my marriage was men being allowed to abandon blonds for brunets. I think Brunet Unions should be illegal ;) Makes as much sense to deny someone happiness based on hair color of chosen mate as it does to base it on gender.

[BOSSHOG]

6. Ya mean like Baptist Preachers??

[havocmom]

16. I luvs ya cuz ya don't miss a thing!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[BOSSHOG]

18. My wife would disagree

with you relative to my dusting and vacuuming my office. She says I miss alot. I kinda hit the stuff you can see easily.

[havocmom]

19. I figure if Havocdad makes an attempt to clean his den, I should STFU

and be grateful! :D He has a new filing system to show me he is trying to control clutter on his desk... he installed a big box on the floor next to the desk.

What the hell, it helps a little.

[BOSSHOG]

23. Hey I got a big box next to my desk too

Used mostly for stuff heading to the shredder in the garage. Imagine the "new filing systems" invented ever since paper was invented.

[havocmom]

24. You guys all share ideas on some sort of husband blog, don't you

Always figured there were workshops in destroying laundry so wives would never ask you to do it again...

[havocmom]

26. OMG! Just figured out another way gay unions could threaten marriage...

if a lot of really tidy gay guys got married, it would raise the bar...

:rofl:

[BOSSHOG]

31. Now thats funny

Actually I do wash a lot of the clothes by I never, ever wash her dainty things or her blouses and stuff. I do the sheets and towels and my stuff. I also do some cooking but that's cause I enjoy fooling around in the kitchen, and I always clean up my messes. She works, I don't so I want to make life as nice as possible for her when she gets home.

[annabanana]

3. It is SUCH an illogical disconnect...

I really don't understand how they justify it to themselves. . .

[TahitiNut]

25. I can only think that some people blame their unsatisfying sex lives on others ...

... whose imagined trysts flood the 'minds' of the frustrated, inhibited, and unsatisfied. For some reason, they make a connection ... and I can only think it's projection or dissociation of some kind.

Clearly, there's something neurotic about it. How anyone can even begin to believe that "who someone loves" can be found on a list of the world's problems, no matter how long, is just stunning.

[havocmom]

35. It's all so illogicial. Two burnets or two same sex partners. What's the dif?

That's my point. Well, that and the hypocrisy of ministers telling others what not to do while engaging in even more questionable behaviors than gays who want us to honor their commitments to each other (which the BOSS was quick to pick up on)

[Dr.Phool]

4. I've already turned to alcohol.

But, I'm still married and have some money.

[gollygee]

5. I want to hear how

I keep hearing this talking point and no explanation of how my marriage would be negatively effected by gay people being able to marry, or have civil unions, or anything. My marriage isn't effected in any way by gay civil rights. I have friends and family who are GLBT. They are the only people in my family who would be effected, and it would be a positive change. So the net change in my family would be positive.

[BOSSHOG]

7. And

I've yet to get a definitive answer to a question I've been asking for years: "Why don't christians stone to death people who work on the sabbath." Its in the bible. It must be incredibly complex being a "christian." Read this passage, ignore that passage, and pound that bible all to hell to make a point.

[gollygee]

9. How many times does the Bible speak out against usury?

Why aren't bankers being denied rights?

[Dr.Phool]

10. Don't give them any ideas about people eating shellfish.

If they read that part, I'm a goner.

[unpossibles]

11. don't forget the right to own slaves

the Bible never once says slavery is wrong, and often has rules about how to properly treat your slave. How come there is no Religious Wrong movement to repeal the 13th amendment? I mean, God (or his ghost writers...) obviously feels it's ok to own people, so why not fight for that right (again)?

[Igel]

29. Even sabbath-keepers don't stone.

They take the statement that Jesus is the Judge seriously, that Xians aren't supposed to judge others, and look at the case of the woman caught in adultery.

Strictly speaking, according to a number of groups, there's no basis for a Xian to protect himself if he's being killed or raped (at least for his faith), and there's no basis for a Xian to serve on juries or enforce laws against rape and murder--even for those Xians that believe that murder and sabbath-breaking are wrong. Law enforcement is a function of the state; Xians, per the New Testament, have no state (unless you're postmillennialist, a Catholic innovation). There used to be more such groups; when some became politically active in the late '70s they decided they'd been wrong.

Many evangelists--even on DU--want to mix church and state. Some want to prohibit gay marriage because of a tenet of their faith, others want to have the state be an arm of the church in providing food and shelter for the poor.

[Igel]

30. Mostly a strawman objection.

It's not your marriage or my marriage that would be affected--Kurtz argues--but the institution. In the presence of gay marriage the institution of heterosexual marriage is diminished; more couples never marry, and more kids have single-parent families.

Any effect on my marriage would be secondary and slight.

Kurtz's argument doesn't go through; he admits problems, simply because the data don't show causality, merely correlation. Gay marriage might be a trigger to increased decline in marriage and more kids raised on government support, *or* it might be when heterosexual marriage is no longer held in high esteem and considered unique that gay marriage becomes acceptable ... and the later effects would occur in any event.

[gollygee]

34. Gay marriage is currently illegal

and all those things have happened. It seems like that kind of defeats his argument.

[tsuki]

8. Been married 32 years. Guess when civil unions ruin my

marriage, I have to meet you at the corner bar and we can drink ourselves into oblivion. Marriage is so very fragile.

[BOSSHOG]

12. We hit 33 in April my Friend

Yes, ever so fragile. And to think we did it without the assistance of james dobson.

[Maat]

36. We just hit 30 years together, 23 of them married.

Hey, it was the early 80's in California, People!

;-)

[Arkansas Granny]

13. I was looking for some of the "dire consequences" that have been

predicted for the children of such civil unions and found some very interesting data from the US Census Bureau instead that has been posted by the American Academy of Pediatrics. I wish that all of those who cry "think of the children" would consider this:

The Effects of Marriage,
Civil Union and Domestic Partnership
Statutes and Amendments on the
Legal, Financial and Psychosocial
Health and Well-Being of Children

---

Specific Census 2000 findings include:
· Same-gender couples live in 99.3% of all US counties
· Same-gender couples are raising children in at least 96% of all US counties
· Nearly one-quarter of all same-gender couples are raising children
· Nationwide, 34.3% of lesbian couples are raising children and 22.3% of gay male
couples are raising children (compared with 45.6% of married heterosexual and 43.1%
of unmarried heterosexual couples raising children)
· Vermont has the largest aggregation of same gender-couples (approximately 1% of
all households) followed by California, Washington, Massachusetts, and Oregon
· The South has the highest percentage of same-gender couples who are parents –
36.1% of lesbian couples and 23.9% of gay couples are raising children
· The second highest percentage is seen in the Midwest where 34.7% of lesbian
couples and 22.9% of gay couples are parenting children
· 33.1% of lesbian couples and 21.1% of gay couples are parents in the West
· In the Northeast, 32.6% of lesbian couples and 21.7% of gay couples are raising children.
· The states with the highest percentages of lesbian couples raising children are
Mississippi (43.8%), South Dakota and Utah (each with 42.3%), and Texas (40.9%)
· The states with the highest percentages of gay male couples raising children are
Alaska (36%), South Dakota (33%), Mississippi (31%) and Idaho and Utah (each
with 30%)
· Los Angeles County, California, Cook County, Illinois and Harris County, Texas
have the greatest numbers of same-gender partnered parents raising children
· 6% of same-gender couples are raising children who have been adopted compared
with 5.1% of heterosexual married couples and 2.6% of unmarried heterosexual
couples who are raising children who have been adopted6
· 8% of same-gender parents are raising children with special health care needs,
compared to 8.3% of heterosexual unmarried parents and 5.8% of heterosexual
married parents
· 41.1% of same-gender partners raising children have been together for 5 years or
longer while just 19.9% of heterosexual unmarried couples have stayed together for
that duration.

---

Public policy designed to promote the family as the basic building block of society has at its
core the protection of the needs of children’s health and well-being. Children’s wellness relies
in large part on a complex blend of their own legal rights and the rights derived, under law,
from their parents. However, children of same-gender parents often experience economic,
legal, and familial insecurity as a result of the absence of legal recognition of their bonds to
their non-biological parents. Current public policy trends, with notable exceptions, favor
limiting or prohibiting the availability of civil marriage and according rights and protections to
same-gender couples.

----

With the exception of those states and other jurisdictions mentioned in the preceding table,
and a small number of municipalities, same-gender couples and their children are not
afforded legal recognition or protection under the law. In fact, public policy makers at all
levels of government have moved to enact legislation to prohibit any type of legal recognition
of same-gender partnerships and parenting. In addition, state constitutional amendments
prohibiting same-gender civil marriage, civil union and domestic partnership have established
de facto blanket prohibitions on prospective legislation favorable to same-gender couples and
their children, thereby restricting their access to the political process itself.

http://www.outfront.org/library/Marriage%20Amendment%20Analysis.pdf

[bigscott]

14. being gay and single

this is an issue that i find interesting. when I hear people say "we have to defend marriage" I suggest the best way to do that is to outlaw divorce. They are not for that. But somehow, allowing us homos to marry will cause every straight man and woman to immediately seek someone of the same sex to co-habitate with??

[BOSSHOG]

15. Thanks Granny for this outstanding information

I'm saving that source.

[AndyA]

17. Family killers.

1. Divorce.
2. Drug abuse.
3. Alcohol abuse.
4. Adultery.
5. Financial problems.
6. Lack of health care.
7. Lack of education.

All of the above are family killers, and all of them are things our government could address. It could do away with the possibility of divorce. Once married, that's it! You're married to that person for life.

It could put more law enforcement on the streets to fight drug abuse, provide more education about drugs and alcohol abuse so people understand it better and can address it.

It can provide more money for education and health care, give us a break on prescription drugs and health insurance costs.

It can provide programs to help married couples through bad times, reducing the temptation of adultery.

But it does little or nothing to address those issues. Instead, it takes a class of people, the gays, and legislates them as second rate citizens, who do not have the same rights and liberties as everyone else.

THAT IS BULLSHIT. There's also another name for it: DISCRIMINATION. And last I heard, it's illegal to discriminate.

[Jim Warren]

21. 5. Financial problems.

A. predatory economic system that makes it mandatory for both adult family members to work outside the home
B. constant bombardment of consumer culture and distorted systems of values that leads to massive debt with 0 savings

[Greyhound]

28. What's the difference between drug abuse and alcohol abuse?

Last time I checked, alcohol was still considered a drug.

Adultery is religiously imposed concept.

Divorce would seem to be a result not a cause.

Lack of health care and education are both curable with an infusion of money.

Self-medication is a symptom of dissatisfaction and is often a result of powerlessness to direct or effect one's life.

Financial problems represent a lack of resources, most often caused by perceived worthlessness of one's skill's and or activities, which in turn, is determined by society in general.

So, Doesn't it come down to the structure of our society that has been imposed on us by the ruling class?

Just asking...

[AndyA]

33. I was kind of thinking of illegal drugs (i.e., cooking meth) vs. drinking alcohol.

I felt like there are a lot of people who might not have an alcohol problem, but they cook meth and shoot drugs at home. :shrug:

[Blackhatjack]

20. 'Government won't acknowledge a committed relationship between a heterosexual couple if ....'

they fail to pay the government imposed fee for issuance of a marriage license.

So the benefits of entering into a committed relationship between a man and a woman will not be granted by Government because some fees are not paid first.

Sure sounds like a 'civil union' to me.

And it is against the law for a religious official to 'marry' a couple without a marriage license having been issued BEFORE the ceremony.

However, most states have laws that 'convert' unacknowledged relationships to legitimate Government acknowledged relationships by way of 'common law marriage statutes.' Most statutes require the couple to hold themselves out to the community in which they live for a number of years in a way that makes them appear to be 'husband and wife.' So in that case no ceremony, civil or religious, was performed.

So really any 'marriage' acknowledged by the Government is really just a 'civil union' by definition. Hanging a label of 'marriage' on something does not change its intrinsic nature. And referring to it as a 'civil union' does not change the nature of the Government benefits granted in the same identical sitation.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

39. No time period required for common law marriage in Texas.

That's a myth.

Requirements for a common law marriage in Texas:

1. One male and one female;
2. Both partners have to be of legal age and contractual capacity, or have capacity under one of the exceptions.
3. No prior impediments, i.e. both partners must be not presently married; must be either single or divorced.
4. Must live together and cohabit (this has a specific meaning other than living under the same roof).
5. At least one partner must INTEND to be married;
6. The couple holds themselves out to the public as married.

You can go down to the courthouse and file a Declaration of Common Law Marriage.

When my first marriage was common law, we attempted to register it in Bexar County. However I refused to change my name. The clerk tore up three forms trying to register this. I asked him, "Show me in the Texas Family Code where it says the woman has to change her name to the man's name". He couldn't show me.

The County Clerk committed a misdemeanor on us by not discharging the duties of his office. We went to a lawyer and he told us to just go to the J.P., which we did.

In the case of Michelle Marvin v. Lee Marvin, the famous California "palimony" case, if they had lived in Texas, they would have had a common law marriage with no questions asked.

[tjwash]

22. "civil unions and gay marriage might have an added side benefit."

Wow, my marriage will be ruined and I'll turn to alcohol and end up penniless and in the gutter if gays are allowed to pursue liberty and happiness. If that actually did happen to "conservatives", civil unions and gay marriage might have an added side benefit.

Now THAT is some snark worthy of a DUzy nomination. :rofl:

[BOSSHOG]

32. Thank you my Friend

But don't you know if gays were allowed to marry from sea to shining sea, some baptist minister would find a hidden chapter of the bible that would disallow such an event to effect any marriages solemnized in a church and wala problem solved.

The lost Wediticus Chapter

[Marr]

27. Why can't gays be just as miserable as everyone else?!

People should be free to be slowly driven insane by anyone they choose!

[Maat]

37. Amen!

And I do my very best to drive Mr. Maat insane on a daily basis!

A toast to that, and to my GLBT brothers' and sisters' - well, to full recognition & existence of all legal rights for all!

:toast:

[Nikki Stone1]

38. Yeah, Jay Leno needs more viewers!

Nobody should be having sex on a weeknight. :evilgrin:

[magellan]

40. My husband and I were married in a civil union -- no church ceremony

It'll be 12 years in a few months. I guess that makes us a threat to these morans too? I must say, it delights me no end to think so!

KEEP YOUR CHURCH OUT OF OUR MARRIAGE.

[bumblebee1]

41. Mine, too BOSSHOG.

My husband and I will have been married for 20 yrs this coming Tuesday. We had dinner tonight (5/13) in order to celebrate. I don't know if our marriage will survive with gays and lesbians ability to marry? I was under the impression that my husband and I have a better chance to screw up our marriage than a gay or lesbian couple?