Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

High stakes testing is taking individuality and depth of learning from students.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 11:29 PM
Original message
High stakes testing is taking individuality and depth of learning from students.
All over the country teachers have to stop what they are teaching and practice THE test. Individual grades that teachers give every 6 or 9 weeks have become secondary to the results of that one test...that test which determines everything. Portfolios which teachers keep of the student's progress are secondary as well. "A" students can fail a grade if they don't pass THE test, which in Florida is the FCAT.

There are instances in Florida of honor students not being able to graduate with their classes because they supposedly did not do well on the FCAT or portions thereof. I think to find out for sure, the parents would have to file a lawsuit.

The reliance on one single test formulated by a company in a proprietary manner has narrowed the curriculum to just what is on that test for the time leading up to the testing period. Every child is expected to pass it, no exceptions. That is not possible, and it has never happened that every single child passed a single test. It can not be done. It sets the schools up for failure.

It assumes that all children are equal in the innate ability to achieve. It assumes their brains function on the same level. It just doesn't happen that way.

Teachers I knew always tried to address the needs of the students. This one-size-fits-all test is making that impossible.

Most of the years I taught my classroom was set up to address the individual needs of those in the class. Most of us in the primary grades had reading sessions in small groups, and even when I taught fourth and sixth we did some of that grouping in various subjects. We had centers set up with books, assignments, and parents to help them get started. We used student mentors and tutors. We planned, we worked together.

We used to have aides an hour or two a day who could do remedial work with the students in math and reading. As the funding started being cut, the aides were laid off. The year I retired we had one teachers' aide for two grade levels, 5 classes in each grade. One aide for 10 classrooms. Usually I could make up the slack with volunteer parents, but not always.

I have forgotten the names of the new methods of teaching that were imposed on us in the later years. Core Knowledge, Cooperative Learning, Whole Language vs Phonics. Every time a new idea came to our school the administrators overreacted and overdid it to the extreme.

One year someone decided that we should only teach the whole word, rote learning, and we were to teach NO phonics. What a stupid idea, but it did happen. Most of us kept on doing what we knew would work. One year the principal stopped by for a brief observation period, very common and expected. I was teaching long a words and emphasizing the word families with "ai" and long a silent e (as in cave). She called me in after school to remind me we were to teach the whole word only. Before I retired it was back to phonics again, that method was back in fashion.

I read a statement today that teachers and unions are not willing to change. That is plain and simple BS. Year by year teachers have adapted to new educational policies that we knew full well would be changed back the next year or two.

I have read a statement recently that teachers don't want to be held accountable. That too is absurd. I would imagine teachers are observed, monitored, lectured, more than anyone in most any occupation.

Right now I am having trouble understanding why parents have not been up in arms about the constant high stakes testing. They see the pressure their kids are under, they must see it. Teachers see it, parents must know as well.

Maybe they are starting to get up in arms, and their voices are being heard no more than the voices of the teachers.

Good teachers have always planned for individuality. Our motto was start where the child is and take him as far as he can go.

With the high-stakes testing that is no longer possible. That testing assumes there are no differences in children or their learning styles.

There is a moving letter from a teacher at Susan Ohanian's blog. He is taking early retirement partly because of his frustrations at not being able to teach to depth of understanding.

A teacher says no more

I have come to an important decision. I have accepted an offer to take early retirement from my school district. My conscience is at a crossroad. I can no longer deliver the methods of instruction as prescribed by my school district, the state of California and federal mandates.

..."When I began teaching there were still ideals that included teaching to the whole child, bilingual/bicultural education, content mastery, equality, quality education, developing children into problem solvers and critical thinkers. Since then, the language has been hijacked by politically conservative think tanks and politicians. Now, the quest for quality teaching has been replaced by the quest for best test scores. Scripted lesson plans, rote memorization, English-only education, drill and skill instruction and overzealous test preparation now dominate teaching.


Ah, yes, scripted lesson plans that we once could develop ourselves to suit the individual. Rote memorization and drill. In fact it goes so far as to hold pep rallies for testing. He is right. We are going to lose our critical thinking skills.

.."One major problem with these arguments is that rote memorization and drill and skill instruction do not amount to higher quality learning. Another problem is that if you look at high performing schools in affluent communities they teach critical thinking skills and problem solving, while people of color and poor people receive higher doses of rote memorization and drill and skill instruction.

.."The U.S. produces huge numbers of scientists, engineers and intellectuals in comparison to the rest of the world and cannot be compared to countries that do not have the same multinational characteristics as the U.S. The reason that jobs for scientists, intellectuals and engineers are being exported to other nations is not because there are not enough of them in the U.S., but that scientists, intellectuals and engineers in the third world work cheaply.

..."I have argued this point, written letters to the editor, joined in the letters to Obama, written to my congresspersons, shared my research, argued with my administrators and defied policies by teaching critical thinking skills, art and culture. My hands are tied in the classroom.

I do not know what is next. It is a bittersweet reality for me. I am sad and feel relieved at the same time. I am also uneasy now that I do not have a job. What's next? I don't know.


I ran across this Danziger cartoon today. It is really powerful. Don't fail to note the teacher being led out of the classroom.

The cartoon points out that 300,000 teachers are expected to be laid off by next year.



Come to think about it, if teaching is coming down to practicing taking a test...then I guess most anyone can lead those practice sessions/testing pep rallies.

And that is not real learning.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. I considered getting my licencing back in the day
ok when they were arguing about NCLB... well after that crap was signed into law I went... no thank you. The bill was a poison pill meant to destroy a system, period... and privatize it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Welcome to the machine....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. Of course.
One problem is the emphasis on valid and reliable instruments to show objective and measurable learning. This isn't a right or left thing. This is a theorist thing. It's important to remove subjectivity from the testing process because, just because, a teacher might be biased--either for or against a student.

Another problem is criterion-referenced learning. I hate it. I understand it, but think it's misused as it is. It's one thing to state clearly, in a rubric, what must be learned for a D, a C, a B, or an A. It levels the playing field--if a mediocre student looks over the rubric, s/he, too, can be an A student! Wonderful! No student need ever feel inferior. There's no need to compete for a scarce A. It justifies giving all students As. What's not to love?

The fact that it encourages mediocrity because upon hitting the criteria for 100% you have no reward for doing better. If you're a gifted student and are self-motivated, sure. But a lot of kids I've known in college outdid themselves struggling to get a scarce A.

The scripted lesson plans are a third problem. But since you need to make sure those in charge--those who know better--get to run things their way, you get scripted lesson plans. It makes sure the best methods are used, that poor teachers aren't inflicted on kids. After all, if criterion-referenced teaching and testing eliminates competition--and it's better for them to cooperatively learn little than individually learn much--then this eliminates competition among teachers in a way that tenure never could.

Not that collaborative learning is a bad thing. It's just not a choice that involves morality, AFAIC. For many, it *is* a moral choice.

That said, I support teaching testing methods. If some kids have better test-taking strategies, greater familiarity with a testing method, then the process can be made fairer, and test scores given a bump, by teaching how to take the test. But my attitude has always been that if your curriculum is aligned to the same standards and content that the test is aligned with, that's enough. Then you can zoom through what the test covers--since it presumably isn't open ended--and teach interesting stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Not sure how to interpret one paragraph of yours.
"The scripted lesson plans are a third problem. But since you need to make sure those in charge--those who know better--get to run things their way, you get scripted lesson plans. It makes sure the best methods are used, that poor teachers aren't inflicted on kids. After all, if criterion-referenced teaching and testing eliminates competition--and it's better for them to cooperatively learn little than individually learn much--then this eliminates competition among teachers in a way that tenure never could."

Teachers overall are a pretty capable bunch, despite propaganda otherwise. There are other parts that concern me, but too late to think about it tonight.

Thanks for the measure response, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
5. k&r n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
6. As an early reader, the whole word vs phonics thing was utterly bewildering
Phonics worked in helping me to figure out about 80% of words, and the for the other 20% the rules were too complicated and silly, so I just memorized them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Common sense says they have to go together.
But that principal was very controlling indeed.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Phonics nearly screwed-up reading for me...
It took A TEACHER and real BOOKS to get me interested in reading.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Hey now...phonics are a part of it.
There has to be a blend of phonics and word memorization at early grade levels.

A good teacher can teach phonics and get kids to love reading...all at the same time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Whole language convert here... from my own experiences with learning...
Edited on Thu Jul-08-10 03:07 PM by JCMach1
Phonics and basal readers in the 1970's almost turned me into a non-reader...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. For a lot of phonics teachers the whole point was to have a kid stand up and pronounce words
--correctly from the page of a book. Meaning and enjoyment for the kid were strictly beside the point. Phonics used as an adjunct to meaning works fine for the large percentage of words that can be sounded out easily, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. As someone who teaches in an alternative high school, I agree.
I agree wholeheartedly. We have many students who still have to take the tests (many are exempt due to special needs), and for us in Michigan, the test all juniors have to take is the ACT with a couple of added sections for Michigan. The freakin' ACT. Most of our students won't be going beyond a two year community college program, so why does our state say all students have to take a college entrance test? Apparently, we have decided that all students, regardless of ability or preference, have to be college material. It makes no sense at all.

So, we're in the third year of not meeting AYP. Yes, that rule applies to the alternative high schools, too, so we get all the kids the local school districts kick out because of low test scores and then have to magically get them to get high scores on the ACT. We get students with 4th grade reading levels, students who don't know what a noun or verb is, students who have less than a 1.0 GPA, and we have to get them all doing well on the ACT. It's more than a little frustrating.

We do what we can with what we have to work with (not much, but we try), and occasionally a student really surprises us, but most of us have despaired of ever meeting AYP.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
adnelson60087 Donating Member (661 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. We have the same disaster happening in Illinois.
As bad as all this stuff is, the worst situation of all is when teachers buy into the testing meme. Then, when someone else dissents about the group-think and test-prep that passes for teaching, that person is treated like a pariah, and not being a 'team player". It is destructive and really undermines the culture of the profession. I wonder how damaging this testing environment will be?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jopacaco Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. It's bad in Maine too
Maine teachers are now going to be evaluated on their student's test scores. I have talked to teachers who say their days of collaboration are over. If they discover some helpful classroom strategy, they plan to keep it to themselves. Their job now depends on how well their students do on this test so good ideas will no longer be readily shared. It is now a competition. They have also said that they will teach only what is going to be tested and not worry about anything else related to the subject. They have bills to pay and families to support.
I cannot forgive the Obama administration for what they are doing to education. It is criminal. I have never been a conspiracy theorist but I do not see anything here but an attempt to vilify and destroy public education.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zing Zing Zingbah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. interesting...
Edited on Thu Jul-08-10 10:00 PM by Zing Zing Zingbah
Are you sure this is something that is happening right now? I just read what you wrote to my husband, who is a Maine teacher, and this really doesn't describe his work environment at all. Yes, it isn't the best, but it is not nearly as bad as you portray it, at least around here. I think it depends on the school district and the leadership in the district.

I do agree with you that the Obama administration is taking the wrong approach with education. I wish the feds would just butt out and leave the education decisions to be made at the state/local level. They are trying to control way too much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. When there is so much PROFIT to be made from these changes . . .
it is difficult to say this is simply "wrong" --

private interests are making a bundle from these changes --

including Charter Schools --

Bill Gates is heavily involved in corporatizing the schools --

this is purposeful -- it was purposeful on Bush's part and it is purposeful

on Obama/Duncan's part -- sadly!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
39. Agree 1000%, especially with your last sentence . . .
I cannot forgive the Obama administration for what they are doing to education. It is criminal. I have never been a conspiracy theorist but I do not see anything here but an attempt to vilify and destroy public education.

What Bush couldn't do Obama has taken on to finish up --

destroying public education, financing religious organizations, attacking Social Security and

Medicare -- and still so many here in denial!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. That's part of why I teach where I do.
We all focus on getting the kids to graduate, not the scores, but we do worry about what will happen in a few years when we still haven't met AYP.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
43. High school students reading at 4th grade level...
is a clear sign that several teachers in the past have let this student graduate year after year, even though they are not meeting standards. This is the failure of our current education system. Teachers give A's to the football team even though they can't string two sentences together. Teachers pass a trouble student just to get them out of their hair - someone else's problem now. I've seen great teachers during my school years but also teachers who were just filling the chair or waiting for retirement, teachers who couldn't care less if the students learned a single thing that year.

The test is not the problem. The majority of teachers are not the problem (some are a problem and should be assisted in finding another profession).

The system is, and has been for decades, broken. Teachers cannot be judge, jury and executioner in the classroom with no set objective testing. There must be external measures to ensure students learn what they need to learn and make sure bad teachers are removed. The problem is, in my view, dropping this testing onto the broken system all at once.

They should have started with first graders one year and continued testing them as they progress up the grades, and all new students coming into the system.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
End Of The Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
11. "We are going to lose our critical thinking skills" ???
I think that ship has already sailed. Seems to me most adults don't have critical thinking skills. It explains a lot about the popularity of some of the worst "news" shows on the tube (and a brazillion other things).

TWO teachers made my entire public school education worthwhile. One, in 7th grade, gave me a foundation in study skills and research techniques that I built on all the way through grad school. The second, in 11th grade, somehow made me like (and almost understand) math. Both opened doors to curiosity and a love of learning that enriched my life immeasurably. How sad to think I might have missed that if they had been forced to "teach the test" in those days.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
13. The worst is being reinforced and the good trashed.
The damn sausage factory, one size fits all crap was always a big chunk of the problems from a student's perspective.

We aren't even trying to reform the way we educate but what to check off a damn list with the ability to regurgitate information absent of context and ability to relate knowledge to other subjects.
Understanding and thinking are being increasingly out of consideration rather than fostered.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. How can people accept that all children are alike in learning?
It just blows my mind how accepting people are of this outrageous position since NCLB...that every child can pass a single test. It's stunning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
34. It's insane and requires a memory that can't reach back to being in school
However, it seems to be one of the most widely held beliefs. Every one of these efforts moves us closer to an assembly line, one size fits all system rather than away from it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. One wonders what accommodations The Test makes for students with disabilities
If, as I suspect, the answer is "not much", this could easily undo all the progress we've made in two generations of IDEA. :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I am not sure. I don't think accommodations are made now.
Maybe time limit? Maybe some extra clarification?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Sounds like an ADA/IDEA issue to me
I may have to find some disability advocates down there to get on it...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I am not sure where it stands now, even in Florida, for severely disabled
or non-English speaking. There used to be exemptions from the test for certain disabilities. I am getting the impression now there are none.

Hope I am wrong.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. It would have made things so much easier for me
I am autistic.

All through my school years, I aced every test with minimal studying. I still got bad marks because I stared into space, fidgeted too much, and was half-hearted doing homework - unless it was a subject that caught my interest, in which case I would turn it in late, but it would be many grades above my level. Most teachers were cool and would try to work something out, but sometimes I got in trouble for learning too much.

So I have very mixed feelings about this topic, to say the least.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. "got in trouble for learning too much"!!
Been there, done that.

Actually, that was why the autism label was dropped from me for so many years: I am of an age where we were automatically assumed to be retarded, so when they found me reading above grade level, they stroked their long beards for a few minutes, then changed my label (far less painful to their giant egos than changing the way they think about us).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Yup.
I couldn't be autistic because I'm female. I was diagnosed "just wanting attention" and since "negative attention is still attention" that's the kind I got, with the doctors' beaming approval.

Neurotypicals are just fucking crazy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. i would`t make it in today`s schools
zero math and science skills with average writing skills. what i excelled at was political/current events,sociology/psychology, the arts,and shop classes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. A gift from george.
bush started this crap when he was gov in Texas. We have had our schools rotted with this for decades. There is nothing that the schools will do that is not about the test. If you have an idea to help teachers do better, you have to cover it over with a big old spoon of test-prep or no school will approach it. We have actually had ASCD presenters at state conferences tell teachers to ignore the text, the curriculum, and, in effect, student needs. Teachers are told that the only thing that matters is what is on the test. Test results are scrutinized. Hours and hours are spent trying to find a magic bullet. Data mining is the new teacher prep.

It has become a given here in Texas. The testers are the Borg. You will be assimilated in other states.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. Sad. What Do We Do?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
25. neil bush & The FCAT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. Thanks -- I did quickly scan all of the links . . .
This was a shocker from the second link ...



The Candid Bennett By Tom Hoffman on October 4, 2005 in Federal Funding & NCLB, in IT Infrastructure.

On the occasion of the resignation of Bill Bennett (moral scold, compulsive gambler and former Secretary of Education) from his positions as Chairman and board member of K12 Inc., I'd like to point out this little anecdote from Intel director and former FCC Chair Reed Hundt:

...I asked Bill Bennett to visit my office so that I could ask him for help in seeking legislation that would pay for internet access in all classrooms and libraries in the country...

He told me he would not help, because he did not want public schools to obtain new funding, new capability, new tools for success. He wanted them, he said, to fail so that they could be replaced with vouchers,charter schools, religious schools, and other forms of private education. Well, I thought, at least he's candid about his true views.



A teacher here in NJ told me her school failed -- and they were told that they'd have to buy

a program -- costly of course -- called COW -- "Curriculum On Wheels" from a Neil Bush company!!



If I were Queen . . . I'd certainly have some experts -- like Chomsky, for instance -- look

at these tests for any value if any can be found in them! And private companies shouldn't be

preparing tests for our public schools any more than private companies should be running our

presidential debates!!


We were trying to get rid of SATS and other standardized testing which are BS and now here we

are with loads more!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SunnySong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
26. Heck "School is taking individuality and depth of learning from students."
Its worse now with the rote testing but school was never a nirvana of free thought and learning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-08-10 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. That was my experience and testing had nothing to do with it.
Edited on Thu Jul-08-10 11:01 PM by Radical Activist
I'm sure my worst teachers were making far more than the best ones thanks to seniority-based pay rewarding those who should have retired.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
33. Students today don't learn how to think. They're just learn how to take standardized tests.
You can especially see it in the 20-something population. Give them a simple task and they don't try to solve it. If they don't know the answer, they defer it to someone else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
35. "Walmart model of education
Weil nailed it in this description.

http://dailycensored.com/2010/06/06/race-to-the-top-the-four-assurances-and-the-privatization-of-education-and-the-colonization-of-subjectivity-2/

Certainly charter chains would prefer national standards; that is why they look to the government to assure they have a highly profitable landscape to scrape up the contracts. This would allow them to use prepackaged curricula across their charter outlets no matter the location – it’s highly conducive to expanding their “market share”, for dummied down standardized curriculum keeps costs down and the dispensation is formulaic and repetitive. This is the Walmart model of education (Weil, D., 2009).


Another aspect of this is the transferring of education money into the pockets of private colleagues. Get the foothold, seed it with a little grant money, then make it a standard, which would be funded by the public. That's shown clearly in these actions by Seattle School Superintendent Maria Goodloe-Johnson.

http://www.eatthestate.org/the-lightning-rod/

Goodloe-Johnson, and many of the current board members, have direct ties to the privatizing cottage industries that have sprung up in the wake of NCLB. Goodloe-Johnson herself is a product of a superintendent training academy run by something called the Broad Foundation (a hobby of California billionaire Eli Broad), which labels its work “venture philanthropy” and helps fund and staff privately run urban charter schools around the country. The foundation also advocates in various cities for a shift to having appointed, rather than elected, school board members. Goodloe-Johnson is now a Broad Foundation board member, and several Broad Foundation alumni work for her at district headquarters. The Broad Foundation recently gave the district a $1 million “gift” for unclear purposes.
In an even clearer conflict of interest, Goodloe-Johnson is also a board member for the outfit which created and distributes a standardized test called the MAP (Measures of Academic Progress ™). Seattle now administers the MAP test three times a year, to students from kindergarten to ninth grade, with the help of a $9 million grant from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation that Goodloe-Johnson procured so the district could pay a company she sits on the board of. The MAP tests are in addition to the Measurements of Student Progress (MSP) tests which have replaced the now-discarded state WASL exams.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
perdita9 Donating Member (408 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
36. Pennsylvania Students can't calculate percentages
Why? No percentage problems are on the PSSAs. Because they're not on the PSSAs, the teachers don't teach percentage problems.

I teach College Biology. Do you know how weird it is to deal with a 19 year old who doesn't know how to calculate percent?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
37. The US usually compares poorly to other industrialized countries...
...in educational competitions. (And forget for the moment that those measures correlate with disparities in health care and income distribution.)

One would think that we would study the educational methods of the countries whose students score at the top, and adopt their best practices. And to my knowledge, this has not been considered by the people who make those decisions.*

Does anyone know of a country that has been successful using high stakes testing, and coupling that with teacher incentives/rewards? :shrug:
*Of course, the people who make educational decisions are not educators.


--imm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
38. They've been working on doing this a long time, Mad . . . SATs are part of it -- ACT ...
The right wing isn't trying to help children -- they're after the teachers and it isn't

to save salaries -- it's about removing a usually humane living person of compassion which

benefits children and tossing in rigid rules of obedience which set students up to fail.

Sadly, it will be teachers with the most active consciences who will be leaving early.

Some say that's also what happened with journalism as the lies and deceptions began to

pile up and news became corporatized -- more "Mockingbird" and MIC than reality.

Right now I am having trouble understanding why parents have not been up in arms about the constant high stakes testing. They see the pressure their kids are under, they must see it. Teachers see it, parents must know as well.

Maybe they are starting to get up in arms, and their voices are being heard no more than the voices of the teachers.


Interesting questions -- which should have us all wondering.

My daughter especially had a difficult time with tests -- if we could convince her the test

was meaningless - she'd fly off the charts with the results. Many times we couldn't convince her.

These tests are going to have very harsh and cruel results for many students -- their parents --

and for the schools themselves.

Only the right wing will benefit from this -- proving once again that right wing propaganda

continues to work!

America has to wake up and begin to defend the teachers and their union!!









Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
42. My guess is that student testing primarily has to do with the surveillance state
and collecting information about what's going on in each student's mind. The structure attaching money to schools based upon test scores is likely secondary, as are teachers competence. However, these are needed primarily to elicit student compliance with test taking. Otherwise, students would simply refuse to take tests, and teachers and parents would support that strike.

If one of schools core functions is to increase the knowledge in each students mind, then the directional flow of information needs to be from teacher to student, or from knowledgeable minds to less knowledgeable minds (this presumes the student has the less knowledgeable mind, a seemingly reasonable assumption that may, in very rare circumstances, have exceptions). Testing is taking information from the students mind. Note that the difference is in the direction of the information flow: teacher to student versus student to testing organization.

Anyway, by inductive logic we can conclude that education is not what it is thought to be by the vast majority of the populace, due primarily to the dissonant direction of information flow in the testing process. In brief, compulsory education's student testing is not primarily about transferring knowledge to students. This is further confirmed by the minimum wage that high school graduates are qualified to receive, which is no more than non-graduates would receive.

Testing students may be much closer to warrantless wiretapping in concept -- Big Brother who knows all -- than most folks care to believe. Imagine the "market value" of Big Brother's database.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlanAdam Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Oh yeah, now I remember why I quit coming into GD. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
44. Teachers say they can individualize their lessons to accommodate even the slowest students
This is clearly impossible unless they force the rest of the class to suffer along as the struggling student plods along. When you have 30 students it is pure fantasy to think that a teacher can do anything but pace the class so that the bulk of the students "get it." The slow learning students are pushed to the side, discouraged from asking questions or ignored, getting so lost, so far behind that they drop school entirely. That is the truth of the classroom.

Bright students are stymied as well because the teacher is teaching to the lowest common denominator. Instead of sailing through and moving on to the next topic, the next concept, the brightest students are bored and feel stuck in a rut waiting for the average students to catch up. This is a recipe for failure for the brightest in the classroom, many of whom will drop out in frustration.

What is the solution? Get rid of the classroom. Put all lessons on video and all testing via computer. We now have the technology to do this cheaply. Even essay questions can be checked by a computer. There is no need for a million 8th grade math teachers to stand in front of a room full of students and blab the exact same thing. It would be better if each student got a laptop loaded with the lessons he or she needs for the week. Tests are downloaded to the students' laptops only in the classroom and only immediately prior to exam time. To discourage cheating, each 100 question test is a randomized selection from a body of at least 500 questions.

Grading on a curve. Who is the idiot who came up with that? In a classroom full of morons the idiot gets an A. In a classroom full of Einsteins, the Marconis and Edisons get an F. This is not an objective measure of competency at all, just an excuse for a lazy teacher to play God or justify favoritism.

Testing is needed and has to be based on national standards. There is no other way to ensure that all students are treated fairly. But one test given at the end of the year (or the quarter) is merely a band-aid for a broken classroom paradigm.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Riley18 Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
46. I wish parents would demand to see the "test" that prevents their kid from
receiving the diploma they earned. The state will not even answer the reliability and validity questions. The test just is...it is like the emperor's clothes. There is no reliability or validity to a test that cannot be measured against another.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC