Here's what I told my friend when he said people could get a job if they wanted to work

[rainy]

and he couldn't understand how I "bought progressivism which is another word for socialism."

Bob, our money system, capitalism, can not function at 100% employment. Learned that in Econ 101. So, that leaves out some people. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH JOBS FOR EVERYONE. Plus, our planet cannot sustain the rate of growth that we need to keep the economy going. We will use up all our natural resources at the pace we are on now. We'll destroy the earth. The rain forests are already disappearing.
I think there is a better way. Not socialism but not what we have now either. In the end capitalism will eat itself. We see that now as AIG, City Bank etc.....collapsed the system. It has no choice when the dollar is the bottom line and nothing else matters. We have many socialist systems in our government right now, police, schools, military, infrastructure building -roads and so on.The right likes to throw the word out like is some demon.
We are in the process now of lowering all of Americans' standards of living and wages to meet a global capitalistic system. Many of our jobs have moved overseas so that large corporations that waste our natural resources and pollute our air, land and water can use cheep labor by exploiting the working poor around the world. Our own work force is now receiving lower wages than 20 year ago in true value dollar sence, our children coming out of college can't find jobs and don't forget the working poor who have jobs but can't even buy food or housing on the pitiful wages. God help them if they get sick.
A better way might be a true cost capitalism with social plans as well. True cost would mean that big corporations can't use up all the natural resources and give nothing back to the true owners of those resources, the people. Coke co. uses up water, pollutes what they leave behind and people get sick and die. But Coke does not pay for the dirty water or the sick people's medical bills. I could go on……..
There's gotta be a better way and we are intelligent enough to find it if we could just turn off the TV and stop listening to the corporate hacks that keep up brained washed and hating each other so that they can rape our national treasure and buy our politicians.

[meowomon]

1. Capitalism is one big fucking Ponzi scheme.

It is unsustainable.

[izquierdista]

4. A better analogy

Capitalism is a Texas Hold'Em tournament; lots of entrants, maybe a few percent finish in-the-money, only one big winner. Maybe that's why both are so popular in the United Stated, everyone thinks they are going to make it to the final table.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

5. I Like That

I'm going to use it the next time I get into a "discussion" with a rightie.

And to expand on the idea, how many people make it to the final table when they get dealt shitty cards? That's what righties fail to recognize: that life sometimes just deals people a shitty hand and there's nothing they can do about it.

[TBF]

6. Exactly - same thing with the "American Dream"

which is more of a nightmare for most, but they keep hoping the fairy tale is going to end happily ever after. The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

[leftstreet]

19. +1

Excellent analogy

[kestrel91316]

10. [phone]

[Joe Fields]

28. capitalism is not the problem. Grossly unregulated capitalism is.

[meowomon]

2. Dupe

[ChoppinBroccoli]

3. How Do Righties Square That Notion With The FACT That...........

.............for every new job created in this country, there are 5 people competing for it?

Republicans labor under this third grade delusion that you can have anything you want if you just want it enough. That's not reality. But you'll hear every one of them say it. Yes, that's right, Mongo, EVERYONE can be a millionaire, and all you have to do is WISH hard enough.

The next time your friend comes at you with this line of logic, just look him dead in the eye and ask him, "Why aren't YOU a millionaire? Do you just not work hard enough, or are you lazy?"

I actually tried to show a rightie the error of her ways by saying this: "The idea that all you have to do to be rich is work hard is a myth. Nobody works harder than the American farmer, but show me a farmer who's rich." She insisted she knew several rich farmers. You just can't argue with these people. When you shoot them down, they'll MAKE UP "facts" to suit their stories.

[rainy]

11. The rich farmers she knows get government subsidies

[EstimatedProphet]

7. Why not socialism?

These jackasses that scream about socialism don't even know what it entails. Without it, everyone lives in their own bunker and every single thing has to be taken care of by each person. House on fire? The fire department is socialism. Education? Schools are socialism. Your neighbor wrecks your car? Insurance and the legal system are both socialism.

I am sick to death of these idiots griping about socialism. God forbid they ever get into power, because they'll insist on turning every house in the country into an armed fortress, and in the process we'll all become slaves to the corporations along the way.

[The2ndWheel]

8. Sure they can

"True cost would mean that big corporations can't use up all the natural resources and give nothing back to the true owners of those resources, the people."

Corporations are run by people. You're saying that people, "the people", humans, own those natural resources. Well, if one species out of many can own those resources, then a small percentage of that one species can do the same. Can't have it both ways.

[rainy]

12. what???

[guitar man]

9. "The Paper is full of jobs!"

I get so sick of hearing that one, usually from somebody who hasn't had to look for a job in 20 years.I usually just tell them "yeah, go try to get one of those *jobs* in the paper and see how you fare." by the time you weed out all the junk, there aren't very many legitimate job offers at all in the classifieds,

[Toucano]

16. And that needs to be regulated.

You are so right about the junk that has to be sorted through.

Advertising for jobs that don't actually exist on the day of publication should be illegal.

10 out of 50 ads the appear to be for "help wanted" could actually be the same damn company trying to waste your time on an non-existent position.

[guitar man]

21. yep

A little "truth in advertising" seems to be in order. I don't know how many times while looking for work, something advertised as a job turned out to be a "business opportunity" (ie scam)

[The_Commonist]

13. People who say things like that...

"...people could get a job if they wanted to work..." forget that we have become increasingly specialized in the work that we do. If you've gone to college and graduate school and spent years in some highly specialized career, and then your specialization becomes downsized or outsourced, you may not have the skills and qualifications to do much else. There might be "jobs" listed in the paper, but with numerous people competing for one job, are they really going to consider the highly educated person for the job that requires brawn? Is an expert in 19th century English poetry really going to get a job as a refrigeration technician? Is the HVAC tech really going to get a job as a teacher's aide in a charter school? Does the computer repair person have the skills to wait tables?

People don't think these things through...

[EstimatedProphet]

14. Yes

For a time when I was unemployed, people were saying I should just get a job in fast food to get by.

I have a doctorate. Can you imagine how well that would go over? There is no way I would even be considered for most unskilled/semi-skilled jobs. No manager in his right mind would interview me, because they would be certain I would leave the first chance I got, and end up wasting their time. Plus, imagine the effect on morale with the other employees.

Sorry, the world just doesn't work that way.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

18. When I Lost My Job And Was Trying To Start My Business..........

.........I was hurting for money. I was literally willing to do just about anything to pay the bills. My cousin, who worked for a temp agency got me on with his agency, and they sent me out to a group interview for a telemarketer job. I was one of about 20 people in the room, they were trying to fill 12 positions, and I was the only one that was able to so much as string a sentence together. Here I am with a law degree, and these people pretty much all had "high school dropout" written on their foreheads. I was even straight-out ASKED by a couple of them, "You're a lawyer? What are you doing HERE?" Needless to say, I KILLED in the interview and went home expecting to get a call offering me the job. As it turned out, my cousin called me a couple days later and said that all 12 positions had been filled, and I wasn't one of them.

So it's absolutely true that, in addition to having to deal with your OWN inner problems when you take a job that's beneath your education, training, and quite frankly, your dignity, chances are you won't even be able to get that job because you're overqualified.

[EstimatedProphet]

20. I did the temp stuff too

And I know exactly what you mean. The temp agencies love people in the position we were in - responsible, well-trained, and someone they are able to send out anywhere. It's a great solution, except for the fact that it has no benefits and pays terribly.

[prolesunited]

22. Yep, I even agreed up front to take a $20,000 pay cut

had a great interview and highly qualified. They still won't hire you. And then you can't get a straight answer. They don't want to say that you are too qualified and legally can't say you're TOO OLD.

[KeyWester]

15. The best way would be...

highly regulated capitalism. But the entire country would have to agree on that issue before it could work.

Capitalism is the way, if done right, if unregulated it makes the citizens slaves of the corporations.

[dana_b]

17. How did he respond?

I am hoping that he listened and took in at least some of what you said.

[rainy]

23. here's what he said after my analogy:

"I am at work and therefore pressed for time. It appears we are going to have some fum here shortly in our conversations. I'll get back to you ASAP and we can take turns throwing barbs and curling each other's hair. Like my mom used to say though....you go to your church, and I'll go to mine. Your side is dropping in the polls, because what your side proposes......ain't working. Jimmy Carter, Part II."


Here's what I said back to that:

I don't have a side but in your same vain Bush's policies worked out nicely I suppose ha ha!!!! Deregulation on steroids. Banks without rules that was a huge success. As I see it both side are bought and paid for by the special interests. We haven't a chance progressives, conservatives etc... never really get what we want.

[dana_b]

24. you may disagree

but it sounds like you two can keep it civil. Amazing! lol There are few people that I can do that with.

[rainy]

27. I've always adored this person. He was older by three years in the hood.

A respected local musician, somewhat reclusive and mysterious. I love him.

[LWolf]

25. What was his response?

Edited to add: I just found your answer up thread. :)

[nickinSTL]

26. I'd like him to say that to my wife

she was a computer programmer until 2001.

Since then, she's been mostly unemployed.

She is currently working for the census, and was recently told by her OOS (sort of a shift leader, I gather) that she was the anchor that held the shift together and made it successful.

Before this, she'd been working as needed for an electrician (and fellow DUer), and I know from what I've seen when she got home that she worked her @$$ off.

She wants to work, and yet has not been able to get a steady job in almost 9 years.

She is smart, learns quickly and works hard.

Yet she can't get a job, apparently, unless the hiring is done exclusively by test scores. Any job requiring an interview process she doesn't even get called for interviews. Not that she interviews badly, she doesn't even get CALLED.

Tell my wife that anyone who wants to work, can, she'll kick his @$$ and outargue him until he's begging for mercy. @$$hole.

[eridani]

29. Tell him to quit is fucking job and look for another one.

Then he can get back to you.

[rainy]

30. My latest response:

How do you square that we are on a global capitalist path. This will lower our wages ever more than they are already. We no longer manufacture anything but weapons which our soldiers have to face around the world. Capitalism can't employee every single worker in the world and those who are working, so many are working poor. So if those at the top make their fortunes off the backs of the poor and use up all of the PEOPLES natural resources and pay hardly any taxes how can you expect it to be fair? The earth can't keep up the rate of production that it would require to employee ever single person in the world so that is proof enough that our economic system is hugely flawed. We create so much shit that the "good little consumer" buys up like good citizens without any thought that the resources required to make that stuff are running out and there absolutely is not enough to bring up the whole world to our level of consumption.

There could never be enough jobs because we can't make enough shit to supply the whole world with such stuff.

So, how can one work if there are no jobs? How can one get an education if it cost money and one hasn't any? The playing field is not even at the start and some will not be employed because there are no jobs.


Dick Cheney "Deficits don't matter." That was the mentality of the Bush admin. They demand that the dems pay for everything and they started an illegal war and never even put the expense of it in the budget. Rumsfeld lost 2 trillion dollars at the pentagon and said oh well. If all the jobs are being shipped over seas then it is up to the government to employee the people. The private sector can't do it.

As a musician, an artist, I always expected you to see the bigger picture. Capitalism in not the answer. Did you see that movie, "There Will Be Blood?" It was the best metaphor for the corporate body I have ever see. Capitalism is a huge ponzi scheme. The way it is now with hardly any regulations we just keep creating bubble after bubble and always hope the next bubble will save us from the last one. Unfortunately after the housing bubble there was nothing to take it's place.

There's always a scandal that the tax payers have to bail out those at the top. We had the savings and loans rip off, the Enron rip off, the dot.com rip off and now the housing rip off. We are willing to let tax dollars pay those big cheats off to the point of even getting their bonuses, even though it was their behavior that caused the tax payer to lose so much. But, god forbid that the tax dollar bails out a fellow man. Then the right screams no not my hard earned tax dollar. But you don't mind letting the government use that same tax dollar to KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE IN ILLEGAL WARS of aggression so we can control OIL. Our biggest national security issue.

Honestly Bob what do you suggest those who have lost their jobs do???????? Obama didn't create this mess but the ONLY way to get people back to work is to spend money, not give more tax breaks to the wealthy. Why can't we start building a fast train to DC, to florida, to california? We could put so many people to work. We could rebuild our schools and cities. Hell no says the right, no more government using my money unless of course you want to us tax dollars to kill people and subsidize big corporations then well that's ok with you.

Your taxes actually went down under Obama and that's a FACT unless you make over $250,000. If you do then when are you taking me out?