I don't like what I'm feeling lately.

[Atticus]

To be honest, this feeling has been percolating around within me for quite some time, but I have mostly repressed it: I HATE!

I don't think I'm alone in this. Some are proud of it. I'm not. At some level I realize that hating is demeaning ME; that I am letting myself be drawn down to the level of those I---hate.

I hate Limbaugh. Ditto(too easy!) Beck and Coulter and Hannity and Palin and Bachman and---oh, yeah---Bush and Cheney.

These are evil, malignant, spiteful and arrogant people whose very existence seems to make the world a worse place in which to live. They do not seek reason or compromise or the common good. They only seek more---power, prestige, influence, money.

I have opposed these people and their friends most of my life. There was a time when it seemed to make a difference. Perhaps I was a fool, but I thought that honesty, integrity and---are you ready for a real contradiction?---love usually prevailed in the grand scheme of things. These people represent just the opposite of those traits and, yet, there seems to be no penalty exacted for THEIR lying, THEIR perfidy, THEIR---hatred of who oppose them.

So, I guess I'm at "Why not hate the bastards back?"

Sorry. It has been a hell of a day and I am tired.

[alstephenson]

1. I hear you, friend.

I feel the same way.

[nannah]

23. for me, it's the sadness of feeling ineffective, ultimately ,

after 45+ years of varying levels of activism in hopes of change toward sustainable life practices i feel discouraged by the lack of progress in meaningful areas. We are still at war....we rely on oil for energy... people with low income work still have no access to health care....in the face of the gulf oil gusher, we are reinstating off shore drilling. efforts to hold in place tax loopholes for interest earnings are blocking legislation at the senate to extend unemployment, restore medicaid payments to states, and hold the payment levels for doctors on medicare payments level. how f***ing depressing. America is blocked from responding to the changes happening in the world now, for real, because we are yoked to protecting the economic benefit of the multinational corporations that control the decision makers.

[RandomThoughts]

2. That is a tough one.

It is really hard not to hate some people. Sometimes knowing that is what they want you to do, helps keep away the hate.

[Curmudgeoness]

3. Yep, I understand. Love and flowers and bubbles out the butt

are just not working. I also am not proud of this feeling. But I think that knowing these people really do hate you, it is hard to feel anything else toward them. Not very productive, is it?

[RandomThoughts]

13. Shug, think of it this way then.

If you hate someone, you give them control over how you feel. They take over part of your life, since you devote energy and thought about them.

Laugh at them and walk away from haters.

Many times they then try harder to get you to hate by taking things from you. Sometimes dignity, sometimes money or stuff like that. But if you do not put value in money, and do not sell yourself, they can't take your feelings of dignity.

Then there is always trusting perfect justice will extract what justice they have coming to them for hating you when you have not done things to deserve it, and have only claimed your rights. And even possibly forgiving them, so they are not part of your life.


Although that brings up satisfaction in other peoples suffering. And that is bad also, so it is really a complicated situation.

Listen to some music, and have a beer with friends, or whatever the choice of beverage you like is, if you have cash. Sometimes that is fun.

Kylie Minogue - Can't Get You Out Of My Head (Music Video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfr9bhSmfXc

[Curmudgeoness]

19. Thanks. I'll grab a beer and catch the music. The rational part of me

knows that there should be no energy devoted to hate. I will take a deep breath and try to focus that energy to something more constructive.

[Occulus]

50. "Laugh at them and walk away from haters."

But "they're" killing us. Killing our futures, killing our credit scores, killing our environment, hell, killing us individually and collectively.

Walk away? That enables them. I can guarantee you that they feel in no way controlled by us; they hate us for having the temerity to try to stop them. They are, objectively speaking, in control of all of the real levers of power. They're using that to get all the wealth (however you choose to define the term) they can get their hands on, both in material terms- things like money, cars, houses, businesses, and other property- and in immaterial terms, such as financial security for their own progeny, legal security from regulation, more options available for securing physical property from harm and loss, better healthcare options, better education options, etc., and etc. Wealth, when it goes to them, stays with them because they already spend as much as they want to spend in the first place.

And yet still they want more, and more, and ever more, and as I said above, killing us in the process. They're leaving us with nothing left with which to build our futures, our society, our way of life. Ignoring them, walking away, will not ever make them go away. They'll always want more and they'll always be more than willing to just up and take it if we let them.

They are, simply put, sociopaths, and they deserve hatred, but of a certain kind; a cold, water-clear hatred for what they've done, what they're doing, and what they're going to do. A hatred that only makes you want them stopped, a hatred that has a rational beginning, middle, and end.

As with other negative emotions (such as anger), hatred can be used and directed in a positive manner. That, however, requires the courage of one's convictions, something in very short supply in today's lawmakers, who are the only reasonable avenue short of popular revolution (which is a dangerous path to walk down in the first place).

I have defined the problem, but I see no solution beyond a simple "stop them". As it turns out, that's easier said than done. I can think of one way; a worker's party of some sort might be a beginning. A national worker's union is another starting point. If the People were united, "they", the ones I spoke of above, would have very little power, but "they" have done a very good job of shattering popular unity here in the US.

I don't know how, or even if, we will ever fix that.

[Billy Burnett]

4. Anger is a gift.

Freedom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqcM5lVoteQ

[socialist_n_TN]

5. I'm trying NOT to hate.............

but I'm building more and more righteous indignation every MINUTE. And hate or not, these people HAVE TO BE STOPPED!

[RandomThoughts]

28. You can have focused passion for a cause without having hate. n/t

[Sebastian Doyle]

6. I don't dream of a holiday.... when hate and war come around

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L-egbETFXY

[endless october]

7. don't let anyone direct your emotions.

outlast them instead. and live a happy life. a long one.

[dhill926]

8. if it makes you feel any better......

I hate their fucking guts!

[branders seine]

9. Hate is a valid feeling.

Those you name deserve our hatred.

[hfojvt]

10. Do the right thing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShgXC62a09o

[struggle4progress]

11. Here's the thing: that crowd feeds on our wounded yelping and anger

They're aiming at an alienated, confused, and disoriented demographic -- and their game is to engineer controversy and polarization that they can use (1) to increase the anxiety of their listeners and (2) to garner attention for themselves

We probably wouldn't win this game by fighting them on the territory they have chosen: it is a bizarre and irrational bit of psychogeography, and there's no reason to give that space credibility by wandering into it to take a stand

So don't play along. When it's possible to ignore them, ignore them. And when it's necessary to debunk them, debunk them

The real game is to control the agenda ourselves, not to react to their agenda: this means we have to think creatively and find new and better ways of understanding events and we have to craft usable soundbites that promote these understandings

[jberryhill]

12. That's the trap

Hate is always looking for more.

[Cetacea]

46. Agreed.

Hate is like a heroin of the emotions.

[southernyankeebelle]

14. You are not alone. The hate in this country on both sides is unsettling at times. But you are

not alone. I try not to watch to much of the news. I am addicted to the news. There is allot of bad news out there. I watch only 2 now and they are on MSNBC at 8 and 9 pm. Then I try to watch some nold movies on the TCM channel. Anything to get my mind off the hate. I am seriously worried if Palin gets in the race. This country will go down the gutter even more. God I hate the thought.

[Urban Prairie]

15. I prefer using the word loathe for people, and hate for things n/t

I associate hating people to being most often used in a race and creed sense, so I try to avoid using it when describing how I feel about people, JMO.

[Warpy]

16. Righteous hate might give you an initial thrill

but hate of any type eats you up on the inside. It's a bad drug just like meth is.

You can recognize that they're evil, malignant, spiteful and arrogant without hating them.

Just laugh at anybody who takes their crap seriously. It's good medicine for you and might eventually get through to the gullible boneheads that their fascism isn't socially acceptable.

[LaurenG]

17. I'm tired of it too

I have been seduced by my own fear into thinking that if I negatively resist them enough they will stop. (That doesn't work btw ) I don't really hate them but I have surely felt that I did many times. Its making me VERY cranky though especially when I read/hear/see too much crap from them.

Time to focus on things that make us feel better about our own lives.

[sabrina 1]

18. Sorry, can't say I blame you. Otoh, why waste energy on

trash like them? What people ought to do is never even mention their names.

Every mention of their names means $$$ and the more controversy they create the more money they make.

If Democrats would just completely ignore them, they would have no function. They thrive on riling people up. I wish Keith would stop giving them attention also, it's just free advertising.

It's all an act with them, not to say they aren't evil to be able to do it, but it's all about money and if their target audience, which is Liberals, acted like they don't exist, before long their bank accounts would begin to shrink. Their own audiences are way smaller than they would like people to believe. Even among my Republican friends, no one listens to them, they are an embarrassment.

Imagine if there was not a mention of their names on boards like DU for months and months? That would be devastating for them.

Iow, boycott their product, which is hate, ignore it, don't mention it, and they will be screaming into an echo chamber to their small, lunatic fringe audience.

Meantime, we have more time to do more interesting and important things.

[marions ghost]

41. Democrats ignoring them...

doesn't get us very far.

And "Liberals should act like they (rightwingers) don't exist" !!! :wtf: WHERE has that gotten us?

We should thank the stars that smart influential articulators like Keith & Rachel are giving them some push back!

And if talking about teabaggers embarrasses your Repubicon friends, by all means, we should talk...

You are advocating passivity and denial. Maybe you should go do more interesting and important things.
:hi:

[sabrina 1]

45. Of course I didn't say that 'liberals should pretend rightwingers

don't exist'. You shouldn't use quotes when you are not quoting someone. I said liberals should not mention the names of the entertainment/propaganda arm of the party. They thrive on being noticed. That is far different than addressing their lies and deceptions.

The Teabagger 'movement' is a perfect example of what I mean. It is a phony movement, created by the likes of Dick Armey. It would have gone nowhere if the media had not given it credibility. Now it's growing, thanks to all the advertising.

What Democrats need to address are the wrong policies of the Republican Party, what they DON'T need to be doing is to vote for them. That is where the problem is. Democrats voting for Republican ideas. The problem is not what some clowns, whose books can be found for 5 cents in thrift stores weeks after they are published, have to say.

Outshouting them with facts, giving people the truth, which Dems did not do for over a decade, is the best way to deal with temper tantrum throwing morons. And Rachel and Keith do a very good job of that, although you will rarely see rightwinger loud mouths even mention either of them. Why? Because they understand marketing techniques.

We need to flood the airwaves with talk show hosts like them disseminating facts, attacking Republican ideas every single day. But engaging lunatics is a losing battle.

[marions ghost]

47. the horse is out of the barn now....

it's too late for "marketing techniques" to be applied. We were not among the original groups giving teabaggers all that publicity, and we certainly can't stop the train now that they have the limelight.

If promoting them offends the "other" Repubicons --ie. the upper crusty ones who go along with the rabble rousers (quietly) for their teabag votes--then ALL the better!

How can you address their "lies and deceptions" WITHOUT NOTICING them??? :shrug: that seems like a bad semantic vortex I don't want to get caught in.

No, I think it's GOOD that we strongly and vocally reject them, and they give us ample opportunity to do so. (I never suggested engaging with them directly--I know that's a lost cause. Posting on DU is not direct engagement).

Your post is rife with circular, nonsensical arguments. Your message is, "be quiet about the teabaggers..."

To that I say :nopity:

[sabrina 1]

51. Again, you misinterpret what I said. Promoting doesn't offend

Republicans. THEIR EXISTENCE offends decent Republicans. Their audience, what's left of it, consists of society's fringe elements. Getting bogged down in the mud only delays and distracts from getting things done.

My message is, 'take on those who have power and don't get stuck in the mud wrestling with scum along the way'.

As someone who did engage them for several years, I learned that I wasted valuable time. They enjoyed the attention, and I gained nothing, other than some small satisfaction of proving them wrong over and over again. That, however, never phases them. They KNOW they are wrong on facts and get a kick out of frustrating liberals by distorting facts even further. You have not seen 'circular, nonsensical arguments' until you waste your time engaging the far right. Their whole purpose in life is get a liberal on the end of their hook and then enjoy watching them wriggle in frustration.

Now, I prefer to call a Republican Member of Congess something democrats never do. Which is why they can claim, as a few of them have, that they 'never hear from their constituents that anyone is opposed to their policies'. They don't, but they should.

No one is stopping you from keeping them in the lime-light. They'll thank you for it. Their worst fear is that no one will notice their act.

[marions ghost]

54. I don't mud wrestle,

I am not advocating engaging directly with teabaggers. A total waste of time, absolutely. I do not seek them out.

But then--calling up R members of congress when you KNOW they will blow you off--or even enjoy getting the attention of an obvious liberal--what good is that? :eyes:

You assume that I think ANY Repubicons are worth dealing with. Both sets of Repubicons are a loss, as far as I'm concerned. (And it IS getting harder to tell the two groups apart--even the halfway intelligent ones think Global Warming is some kind of scam that Obama-ites are pushing).

When I encounter ANY Repubicons, I run the other way. If they challenge me, I can easily handle them with one or two lines of defense. Don't even have to exert myself. They've got nothing. NO Repubicon has got ANY cred with me, especially after what they allowed to happen under the Bushites.

ALL Repubicons at this point have a screw loose. The ones with any sense now call themselves "Independents."

[madamesilverspurs]

20. I hate, detest, despise, loathe, and abhor

everything they stand for, along with everything they say and do. I have no wish to share breathing space with any of them, ever. It's not fear of contagion; the only fear is that I would lose sight of my resolve never to act or speak as they do. Their vileness, their abject cruelties, those are the seeping pus from some kind of damage to (for lack of a better word) their souls; that said, the stench from an accidental wound is the same as from a deliberate one, and I simply lack the moral strength to withstand the impulse to act on my revulsion.

I honestly hope that they will one day find that which will allow them to stop being so despicable. Until that day, all I can do is make sure that I don't say or do anything that even remotely resembles them. So far, it's working. I've been called many names, been accused of all kinds of things. But no one has EVER accused me of being a Tea Partier, a 9-12er, a fan of Fox News, or a Republican.

Whew.



-

[undergroundpanther]

27. Ignorance ???

Is tolerating the intolerable,doing nothing as the toxic personality destroys everything that is good.
Not liking how you feel means something is making you sick and maybe it isn't you or your anger....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ed-and-deb-shapiro/how-to-make-friends-with_b_586446.html
http://www.joyofsects.com/weblog/2009/03/righteous-anger-of-the-snow-lion.shtml????

[Beringia]

21. It is ignorance

that they live from. So making the world better is definitely needed.

[TomClash]

22. You're not alone, Brother

I think you would find more than a few people here who feel the same way. Count me in.

[gateley]

24. I know. People used to drive me up a wall (like Reagan) but I never HATED them.

Now, maybe it's just after watching these people more closely and understanding their motives, I HATE. I think my list is the same as yours with maybe a few additional names. I think the common denominator is they don't care how they hurt people, as long as their agendas, egos and bank accounts benefit. They lack humanity.

[pipi_k]

25. People hold on to their hate for lots of reasons, but

in the end, it's only the one who hates who ends up being hurt.


I wasted eight long years detesting George Bush. It affected my mind, my health, everybody and everything I lived with.

But did Dubya lose one wink of sleep over it?

No.

Did anything in the world change?

No.


Well, yeah, some things did change. I made myself sick...absolutely sick with hate.

As far as I'm concerned, hate is really self-abuse and a huge waste of precious time and energy.

:shrug:

[marions ghost]

35. Things did change

a lot more people in this country including you, saw the true face of evil. And saw the extent to which the greedy will go to get what they want. And saw the true nature of capitalism unfettered.

This was a VERY important change in attitudes. You can't live in a world apart. Accept that it was necessary.

Now the question is, what do we do about the serial abuse that happened to us and left this country in a shambles?

[undergroundpanther]

26. Hating

what hurts,what makes life intolerable,harder and unjust it's NORMAL to hate that which harms you.
Do you love corexit? Do you love or even like hanging around toxic greedy abusive cruel people who's very personality makes you sick?

If you can stand being around what seeks to make you suffer,and feel guilty for hating it,than you might be a little confused concerning the reality before you and your idealistic purity..Some people are not like you some have no conscience and will not change.You cannot love psychopaths to get them to care about anything.They'll hurt you exploit you,and destroy you.

This world is a brutal place,and it is made more brutal when good caring people do nothing and let evil prevail by tolerating what should NEVER be tolerated among us.Some forms of tolerance do and can cause harm.Not hating which hates you and who seeks to control you,or dis-empower you or hurt you ,dis-empowers all of us by making us deluded and open for exploitation by the ruthless predators who see us as objects to use, they do not see us as we see each other.Hate can have a positive and pro-social purpose if it applied to a very select few personality types(authoritarians,extreme narcissism and psychopathy).The reaction you have encountering these evil personalities it's called righteous anger.And it is a protective function that too many people feel guilty about because they don't want to face up to having power and fear using that power to STOP harm..

Pacifism and repression of anger and hate is destructive when the bad people that are hurting you or people or this world that you care about, who have no conscience or shame and do not care what anyone else thinks of them and the harm they do.
Truth is,
You cannot negotiate with psychopaths,and they do not change or become virtuous people..if you just be nice,and tolerate more and deny your own protective functions like righteous hatred and anger..

In the search for a good life, humanity first used the power of animals, then turned to exploiting their fellow humans. In such a way, the seeds of suffering and inequality can be found in our hedonistic pursuit of “happiness”. In this way good times give birth to bad times. The knowledge learned by the suffering in bad times leads to the creation of good times, and the cycle repeats.

When a society is hedonistic and the times are “good”, the perception of the truth about the real environment, and in particular, the understanding of what a healthy human personality is and how such personalities are nurtured, ceases first of all to be the highest social priority, then ceases to be generally understood, and finally ceases even to be remembered as a part of the inventory of human knowledge.

*will we LEARN from these "cycles?" or blind ourselves that bad personalities cannot exist will we keep playing make believe as a culture?*

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x911629

http://www.ponerology.com/evil_2b.html

[marions ghost]

40. +++

:thumbsup: x(

Americans are naive not to realize that there really are pathological personalities who do not operate under the same ethical or moral rules as you and I. It's scary for people to see how much these forces of exploitation have taken over in this country.

Denial is of course, born of fear. Fear is justified. But those who are now awakened to the dangers must not turn away from what they (we) have seen.

[madokie]

29. I can honestly say

that before dick and w I never felt the rage of hate. Oh I've disliked this or that or those but never had I hated anything.

[laylah]

30. Sadly, I never hated

for almost 50 years of my life. I realize it is a feeling that only hurts me, I taught my children the same thing. "Hate is an evil word" I'd tell them "...and hurts nobody but you. You can intensely dislike someone but never hate". Well, I learned to hate during the *dumbass years...there was so much to hate about that time. I now try to cancel the thought and I ask Creator to replace it with more loving thoughts. It doesn't always work but to think I allow those bastards to control me in such a fashion, makes the efforts worth it.

:hug:

[laylah]

31. Sadly, I never hated

for almost 50 years of my life. I realize it is a feeling that only hurts me, I taught my children the same thing. "Hate is an evil word" I'd tell them "...and hurts nobody but you. You can intensely dislike someone but never hate". Well, I learned to hate during the *dumb ass years...there was so much to hate about that time. I now try to cancel the thought and I ask Creator to replace it with more loving thoughts. It doesn't always work but to think I allow those bastards to control me in such a fashion, makes the efforts worth it.

:hug:

[marions ghost]

38. Sometimes

the true emotion comes through, despite all the "rational" semantic arguments.

Sure you don't want to teach your children to hate, but you also want to teach them to realize when they are being abused by abusers.

Your anger is rational. You wouldn't tolerate abuse by a spouse. It is not rational to tolerate abuse by a government either.

[lunatica]

32. Real hate is what they have for the rest of us

Do you hate enough to make millions getting paid to unload your disgusting bile on humanity? Do you find yourself seeking ever lower and meaner things to say in order to get attention and money? Do you make your living by being an extreme sexist, misogynist, racist and homophobe? And do you do it by surrounding yourself with the vilest sicophants whom you detest with every last fiber of your body?

Honey it seems to me you don't come anywhere close to being a true hater.

[NuttyFluffers]

33. better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

something a fortune cookie recently told me.

i'm of the opinion that it's better to light the candle FIRST so you know which is the best direction to THEN curse the darkness. best to know where i'm pointing that finger (could go up someone's nose!). but that's me, wanting my cake and eating it, too.

:evilgrin:

[marions ghost]

36. gotta do both

the positive is done in the face of the negative.

It is foolish--and dangerous--to pretend the negative doesn't exist.

[Upton]

34. I hate all those pigs

you mentioned..and I could add a few more to the list. I sure don't feel the least bit sorry about it either.

[Bandit]

37. I hate Cancer

Those people you listed plus many more are nothing more than a Cancer upon our nation.

[EnviroBat]

39. Me too.

I can feel it causing physical aches and pains, but it's there. I hate these fuckers more and more every day. Maybe hate leads to anger, and hopefully that anger can be transmuted into positive action. Try to temper the hate with hope...

[CoffeeCat]

42. OH please...I'm so tired of...

the warm-and-fuzzy contingent preaching that normal feelings are bad. We should all
love and feel wonderful--otherwise you're just harming yourself.

Hate, anger, rage and disgust are all normal when it comes to our current situation. Anger
is a motivator to DO SOMETHING. Anger is a very healthy sign that something is wrong. It's
a call to act.

Feelings are not bad. We're human beings and we're programmed to feel anger when we see
injustice or behavior that is wrong. The only people who don't feel emotion about the
current state of our world--are people who are numbed out, tuned out or sociopaths.

You'd have to be a dead, Stepford human being to feel nothing.

Ultimately, it is anger that will motivate us to change what is happening.

Walking around like a zombie and being a good little soldier--who only feels love
and compassion for the bloodthirsty neocons who are causing so much suffering and
misery--is foolish and bizarre.

You don't have to be paralyzed or overcome when you feel hate, anger, rage or disgust--you
just have to gather up those emotions, declare, "NO MORE!!" and then motivate others to
make big, big changes along side you.

How can we not be overcome with rage? Look at what has happened to our country and our
democracy in the last decade!

[Zorra]

43. It's ok. They are tools of the oligarchy and are deliberately helping to orchestrate

the destruction of our world.

I try to channel the hate, anger, and frustration into focused, methodical non-violent resistance.

I've found that it is impossible to have a reality based conversation with anyone that has been watching Fox "News" for any significant length of time. These people are so thoroughly brainwashed that their political beliefs are based on a complete illusion. When I have discourse with them, I try to plant seeds about lobbying and corporations controlling the government, something that is obvious, something they may know intrinsically but cannot fully grasp, because it is so counter to their brainwashing. It's almost like teaching folks afflicted with very severe autism, slow baby steps all the way, hoping for that tiny breakthrough.

Unfortunately, most brainwashed long-term Fox News viewers/Limbaugh listeners no longer seem to have the ability to separate fact from fiction, and may be too far gone to ever return to any space in the "real world" that appears to be the common perception experienced by most human beings that are not brainwashed by Fox.

[Greyhound]

44. Consider that hate is the flip-side to love

So, this being the case, out hatred comes from love and that should make you want to take a shower.
:evilgrin:

[bobbolink]

62. Actually, that is not correct. The flip side of love is INDIFFERENCE.

Do you remember when Sapphire Blue used to post this a lot? I think it now is in need of a good repost:

The Perils of Indifference
by Elie Wiesel
April 12, 1999
Washington, D.C.

Mr. President, Mrs. Clinton, members of Congress, Ambassador Holbrooke, Excellencies, friends:

What is indifference? Etymologically, the word means "no difference." A strange and unnatural state in which the lines blur between light and darkness, dusk and dawn, crime and punishment, cruelty and compassion, good and evil. What are its courses and inescapable consequences? Is it a philosophy? Is there a philosophy of indifference conceivable? Can one possibly view indifference as a virtue? Is it necessary at times to practice it simply to keep one's sanity, live normally, enjoy a fine meal and a glass of wine, as the world around us experiences harrowing upheavals?

Of course, indifference can be tempting -- more than that, seductive. It is so much easier to look away from victims. It is so much easier to avoid such rude interruptions to our work, our dreams, our hopes. It is, after all, awkward, troublesome, to be involved in another person's pain and despair. Yet, for the person who is indifferent, his or her neighbor are of no consequence. And, therefore, their lives are meaningless. Their hidden or even visible anguish is of no interest. Indifference reduces the Other to an abstraction.

Over there, behind the black gates of Auschwitz, the most tragic of all prisoners were the "Muselmanner," as they were called. Wrapped in their torn blankets, they would sit or lie on the ground, staring vacantly into space, unaware of who or where they were -- strangers to their surroundings. They no longer felt pain, hunger, thirst. They feared nothing. They felt nothing. They were dead and did not know it.

In a way, to be indifferent to that suffering is what makes the human being inhuman. Indifference, after all, is more dangerous than anger and hatred. Anger can at times be creative. One writes a great poem, a great symphony. One does something special for the sake of humanity because one is angry at the injustice that one witnesses. But indifference is never creative. Even hatred at times may elicit a response. You fight it. You denounce it. You disarm it. ]/b]

http://www.edchange.org/multicultural/speeches/elie_wiesel_perils.html

worth the read.

Here's to you, Sapphire.... :toast:

[backscatter712]

48. Hatred is a normal and healthy response to sociopathic behavior.

Why fight it?

[madfloridian]

49. Atticus, they planned it this way. They want you to hate them.

The right wing institutes planned for the division and hatred.

They have various names for it. They called it Controlled Controversy

Their goal is to push buttons

"Founded in 1979 by veteran Republican activist Morton Blackwell, the Leadership Institute has worked with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Karl Rove and Grover Norquist. The group raked in $6.6 million in 2008, according to its most recent publicly available IRS filings, which doesn’t list donors.

“What we teach is to use creative and imaginative ways to make your points, to reveal what we think is political correctness run amuck, liberal hypocrisy and double standards” on left-leaning college campuses, said Sutton, who supervised O’Keefe at the institute until O’Keefe was asked to leave because his investigative work could interfere with the Institute’s Internal Revenue Service standing.

Sutton said the Institute suggested to O’Keefe that he ask Rutgers officials to banish the breakfast cereal Lucky Charms from campus dining halls because it was offensive to Irish American students. O’Keefe took the advice a step further and video recorded the meeting, posting it on YouTube, which Sutton said was an example of him pushing the envelope.

Sutton said it seems likely that Basel and Dai likely met O’Keefe after he graduated and began working at the Leadership Institute, traveling the country training college students on how to employ similar techniques.

One of the major right wing leaders said they would be as obnoxious as they could be.

They planned it.

"Our movement must be highly provocative. The thing we have most to fear is that we will be ignored.

Cultural conservatives must understand the predicament we are in. We must be willing to take measures that perhaps we would be unwilling to take under different, more ideal circumstances. We will have standards--we will never try to justify dishonesty, destruction of the personal reputation of our opponents, cheating, assault, etc., in the service of victory for our movement. However, we will not consider ourselves above appearing "unseemly" or surrendering some our personal dignity. We must be willing to shake people out of their complacency--which means being obnoxious if the situation requires it--because given the fact that the dominant leftist culture is safely ensconced, complacency only serves the interests of our opponents.

It is not enough to say that conservative philosophy is more sensible than that of the Left. If we leave it at that, we will only attract "sensible" people to our movement. But "sensible" people do not go to the barricades, they do not make great sacrifices for a movement. And the experience of the conservative movement has shown this to be the case. We need more people with fire in the belly, and we need a message that attracts those kinds of people. As Plato said, "madness comes from God, whereas sober sense is merely human."

[Uncle Joe]

52. That's a good post, madfloridian.

The Republicans are left with little or no choice but to stir up "madness" because their reason is so poor and for them obtaining power just for the sake of power; is their ends with dividing and conquering; being their only means.

You can't divide the people unless you sow fear and hatred, while love, peace, wisdom, empathy and understanding would be as water to their fire.

[marions ghost]

55. We can do nothing to put out this fire....

I never saw any love, peace empathy etc being thrown on any Reich wing fires having any effect. They just have to get tired and fragmented. Nothing we do will stop them. These people do not understand empathy--it angers them further. Just let their fire fizzle out by itself. That's all you can do.

You have to know the personality type of who you're dealing with. Teabaggers are not flexible.

[Uncle Joe]

56. We can't put the Authoritarian fire out, for this trait is ingrained in the human psyche

but in the words of John Dean, while all high scoring authoritarians are conservative, not all conservatives are authoritarians.

From Joanne's post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x484251

THE REAL REASON GLENN BECK SCREAMS NAZI EVERY NIGHT (At Everyone else)

I agree that you will never change a certain percentage of the populous in regards to their political or social decisions, but our actions can and do affect another percentage that sways from one to the other and if we match vitriolic hatred, and fear measure for measure with the authoritarians, the higher moral ground we occupy becomes fogged over.

The Nazis came to power in Germany in large part because of street battles with Communists, hatred and fear flourished; that's fertile breeding ground for Machiavellian Authoritarians, especially when they dominate by wealth and media ownership.

The Authoritarians would love nothing more than to drag us down to their level, because by doing so, they become empowered.

I'm not suggesting to become shrinking violets or be too afraid to speak truth to power in opposition, but in every way possible to maintain our higher self while doing so.

[marions ghost]

58. I don't think it's ingrained in the psyche

I think authoritarianism is ingrained in childhood. But once into adulthood, not much you can do to change it.

The percentage that "sways from one to the other" might as well go into the authoritarian ambivalent column. Not sure you can count the flip-floppers on our side.

The "higher moral ground" is what BOTH sides think they have...so I doubt that liberals are seen as being higher morally. That seems to me a myopic point of view.

I think we are in danger of being ruled by the pathologically insane, not just the merely authoritarian.

[Uncle Joe]

60. I believe that a strong Authoritarianism bent is part of some people's DNA just

as being a sociopath is, this is not to say that culture or environment doesn't have an effect.

After watching that video by John Dean, not to mention recent history, I've come to the conclusion that the line; between the pathologically insane and Authoritarianism as described by Dean is very thin.

I also believe the higher moral ground is what both sides think they have, and that some on the other side are hate mongers; for the sole purpose of raising emotional levels to the point that reason is drowned out and if you match their hatred, you serve their purpose by mucking up the waters for the flip floppers.

As I stated on my previous post, I'm in no way suggesting not to call them on their vile hatred, fear mongering, corruption, out right stupidity, racism, homophobia or anything else we in good conscious find objectionable.

[marions ghost]

61. the line between authoritarianism and pathological

insanity is indeed thin. In the Reign of the Bushites we crossed over the line. The Dean video is insightful and has the advantage of being heard by Repubicons. But I think the gap between Liberals and "moderate" Repubicons is getting wider, not narrower, and part of that is because of the extremist fear-mongering invective that now colors the GOP. The moderates deserve the tainting, as they have not distanced themselves from the extremists. They are all too happy for the votes.

You & I don't disagree in general, but I still say authoritarianism cannot be in your DNA. It is learned, perhaps best learned and promoted by those with sociopathic tendencies.

Sociopaths do not tend to be Liberals because they don't have empathy and compassion. Sociopaths tend to be conservatives.

[femrap]

53. Look on the positive side....

cheney is actually suffering! He's got this funny looking machine hanging on his chest. He's having trouble breathing. Karma is hitting him right in the aorta!

Karma will probably hit W in in prostate. Don't worry about...they'll all suffer. Really.

Hating is exhausting. Best to just let Karma smack their asses....really hard.

[AsahinaKimi]

57. Since WWII

People fought against the Nazi's and against the evils of Fascism.

To see it or other forms of it, growing here in America and to watch the ignorance from a failed education system is alarming.

Corporations needs over individual rights..

Even overt Racism regaining ground once again.

One can only shake their head and wonder what happened.

When a Presidency is handed over to a man by the Supreme Court, and taken from the hands of the voters....


When we are sent into a war on lies, and for profit of things like Oil that never really belonged to us....

When the line between the separation of Church and State have been blurred...

When the very Bill of Rights created to protect America has been cut back to allow things

like torture, wire taping,...the rights to have a trial by ones peers has been taken away...


Things have gone very wrong here.


People should be angry at the people who have encouraged

these things to happen once again and in this country, of all places.

[Mojeoux]

59. I just today was writing about this. Hate can immobilize you with fury.

I hate these fuckers so much and then I see documentaries of other countries and I hate the bastards messing things up all over the world.
What I think is BAD ABOUT HATE is that it can tie you into knots, paralyze you with unrequited fury.

I hate Sara Palin in such a way that I have tried to mostly shelve it, because I can feel my gastric juices churn at the thought of her. However, I think that I will try to explore and write an essay about my hate for SP. A cold scientific eye is needed, but I think it will be healthy.
This is my 991, I think and my 1000 will be my personal essay on hating Palin.


I am Glad you brought this up Atticus, and I agree that the RW thinks the more we hate them, the more effective they are.

[Atticus]

63. Today has been a better day. I'm grateful for all the responses to last night's post.

I'd like to make it clear that I have no problem with being damned angry at these amoral extremists. Anger can be righteous. It is usually just raw passion and passion, controlled, is always beneficial.

What I consider hatred is not really controlled. It is not productive. It makes me feel powerless because, if I give in to it, it immobilizes me and that is a "win" for the Dark Side.

And, for much the same reason as I feel humiliated and ashamed of MERE hatred, I respectfully disagree with those who advocate simply ignoring these fascists a-borning. I have to oppose them. If nothing else, I have to let others know that I totally oppose what the likes of Limbaugh and Palin stand for. They spend a lot of time and money trying to convince everyone that they speak fo "America". Damn it, WE are Americans and WE have a hell of a lot more reason than they do to call ourselves patriots.

So, I'm still pissed, but it's a good thing again. I'm back behind the wheel of ME.

Thanks again.