Obama Hires Fmr. Wellpoint Exec to Implement Health Care Law

[asdjrocky]

by: David Sirota
Wed Jul 14, 2010

From the Department of You Just Can't Make This Stuff Up, check out this little-noticed report from the Billings Gazette today:

Liz Fowler, a key staffer for U.S. Sen. Max Baucus who helped draft the federal health reform bill enacted in March, is joining the Obama administration to help implement the new law...

Fowler headed up a team of 20-some Senate Finance Committee staffers who helped draft the bill in the Senate. She was Baucus' top health care aide from 2001-2005 and left that job in 2006 to become an executive at WellPoint, the nation's largest private insurer. She was vice president of public policy at WellPoint, helping develop public-policy positions for the company. In 2008, she rejoined Baucus to work on health reform legislation.

For some good background on Fowler and the insidious role she played in killing the public option, watch Bill Moyers' recent segment here.

Clearly, this is a telling indictment of the health care law itself, strongly suggesting that it was constructed by the Obama administration - as some progressives argued - as a massive taxpayer-financed giveaway to private insurers like Wellpoint. And let's be honest: In investment terms, Fowler has been a jackpot for the health industry. The industry maximized her public policy experience for their own uses when they plucked her out of the Senate. Then, having lined her pockets, they deposited her first into a key Senate committee to write the new health care law that they will operate under, and now into the administration that will implement said law. Any bets on how much Fowler will make when Wellpoint (or another health insurer) inevitably rehires her in a few years?

the rest-
http://www.openleft.com/diary/19449/obama-hires-fmr-wellpoint-exec-to-implement-health-care-law

Like Dave said, you can not make this stuff up.

[LWolf]

1. What is there left to say?

: (

[asdjrocky]

2. Not sure, but I think I hear a fat lady singing. nt

[AnArmyVeteran]

479. The evil criminals are in charge of the prisons.

And we're the ones who are having our finances executed. Corruption is running amuck.

[slay]

110. :(

i'm sad Obama is such a corporate Dem. maybe someone will run against him in a Dem primary in 2012. i'd love to see bernie sanders do it. shit if the teabaggers want to bitch about a socialist prez, lets give um one! :evilgrin:

[pattmarty]

182. Sanders won't run, he's 71 yo and he wouldn't have a chance in hell...........

............Obama "might" get a primary opponent, but at this time I don't believe he will. Who would even have a slight chance? Kucinich may challenge him but he has been so marginalized by the press as a "left wing" out of the mainstream person. Who else, Hillary? I doubt it. The press and the Dem party will decide if there is a challenge and that does not bode well for "us". For the past couple of years I have been saying the the parties in the US are "bad & worse". I, like everyone else, had "hope" with Obama and like most have been disappointed.

[BonnieJW]

232. What about

Grayson, Franken, Kucinich, Brown?

[pattmarty]

250. Hey, I like every one of them, BUT the press already has painted.......

......Kucinich as a "left wing loon" and what they would do to Franken would be criminal. Brown is an ex-labor lawyer I believe so that would be the end of him by the press too. A true liberal that let his/her agenda be known would have virtually NO chance in even the primary. I hate to admit it, but it is true. We're stuck with "bad & worse". I like just about everyone else thought Obama was a "liberal" and would actually push Congress to pass progressive bills. I like everyone else was fooled too. I really truly believe now that the way things are going here that anyone with an education, a small savings and prospects for a job should move to a European country. If you want "liberal" that's about the only places to go. I really hope things change in this country, but unless things get worse and there is various "revolts" (like in the 30's) things will continue to deteriorate to the point where we will look like Mexico. A very small of wealthy elites AND the rest of us.

[defendandprotect]

281. Whitehouse . . . Grayson . . . Franken . . .

I'm amazed that former liberal Democrats haven't come together to put up a

new candidate --

Corporate fascism is a strong block on democracy!!

And -- Oh, yeah -- that used to be called "back room dealing" - in cigar-filled rooms!

As Ralph Nader pointed out long ago . . . when do corporations allow the public to pick their

leaders? Their CEO's? Their presidents?

[pattmarty]

356. The Senate now probably has 20 REAL liberals and the House..........

.........Probably 80 or maybe 100.

[lark]

314. Franken, I want Franken

with Grayson as his VP, so he can run after Franken's had his 8 years.

[mzmolly]

324. I remember when some pissing in this thread feared Franken because he was "DLC".

Those of us who defended him and thought he'd be a great senator were 'shills' ... seems little has changed but the daily DU villain.

[pattmarty]

360. I believe you, but I personally never saw any Franken trashing, although..........

...........I don't look at EVERY post at DU. Franken I'm sure in the run up to his running talked with DLC and all sort of money and party people, but Franken HAVING conservative (DLC) views is absurd. He's one of maybe 20 good guys/gals in the Senate.

[Grinchie]

390. Franken is about as DLC as Eddie Murphy was in Trading Places..

I've never even heard this before until your post., but I did hear that Al Gore invented the Internets.

Most people don't realize the skill and education it takes to be a great comedy writer., Matt Groening would be my first choice for President..

[mzmolly]

394. Franken

used to describe himself as a DLC Democrat and because of that that much hyperventilation ensued here.

[defendandprotect]

457. Thanks . . . I'll check, but I've seen nothing to suggest Franken is DLC . . .

and, boy -- that would be sad!

Otoh, Obama distanced himself from DLC -- denied it --

and look where we ended up!

Ouch!!

:)

[defendandprotect]

456. If Franken is DLC, then take him off my list . . .

I'll watch more closely what is going on --

Maybe he like a lot of others didn't understand what DLC is?

Otoh, Obama distanced himself from DLC -- allegedly not a member --

otherwise I wouldn't have voted for him.

[pattmarty]

358. Franken has less of a chance than Kucinich. The press would fucking........

..............murder him. They would use ALL the stuff from SNL to torpedo his chances like immediately.

[Grinchie]

393. Since I only choose what I watch, Kucinich has my vote already.

And if the people are too stupid to see honesty as a virture, then Ron Paul will have a chance.

This whole unelectable Brand that you guys try to paint on Kucinich is just another fluffy piece of spin. The fact of the matter is that the DLC is scared to death of the populaist revival that Kucinich would bring.

[pattmarty]

399. Hey, be easy, I'm on your side. I don't like to be painted by ANYBODY.......

.......as "you guys". So fucking get a grip. I like Kucinich, Sherrod Brown, Franken, Boxer, Durbin, Sanders, Feingold, Harkin et al. Like I said on another post there probably are 20 Liberals in the Senate and maybe 80-100 in the House. If you look CLOSELY at what I said is the media will crucify any "true" liberal and that is just a fact. Jesusfuckingchrist, I hate to keep defending myself as a liberal. I am PROUDLY to the left of probably 60% of the posters here, so back the fuck off a little.

[inna]

414. My first preference would be Feingold or Kucinich. nt

[newspeak]

311. and, that's the trouble, the press more or less has been picking our candidates

that's why if we even have a chance to get someone to care about the American people--it's going to have to be a major grassroots movement-bypassing most of the whorish press.

[pattmarty]

369. No, the press (over time) just has to be "coaxed" to be SOMEWHAT balanced...........

..........again like they were in the 60's + 70's (more or less). Every country/culture needs a free press (by press I mean print, internet and video/audio).

[HillbillyBob]

441. i will vote for any primary that runs against him

I sure will not vote for O again. period.

[Stoic]

213. By then the Repukes would have taken Congress back

And we'll have a repeat of the Clinton years. Obama will get enough sympathy votes to get him re-elected. Hey, at least his inner circle of Establishment Dems will still have jobs.

[defendandprotect]

286. Doing the same thing will only take us further down the DLC/corporate roadway ... ...

we need a new candidate in 2012 --

[Stoic]

295. And we ain't gonna get one.

That's how the system works.

[defendandprotect]

282. Remember, the T-baggers are wholly owned and created by GOP . . .

and handled by a PR firm which gets them publicity --

we certainly have nothing comparable on the Democratic Party side --

and actually Democratic leadership wouldn't have had to PAY for or CREATE

a movement for MEDICARE FOR ALL -- it was there and ready to go --

but never called out by Demcorats.

That's the big DIFFERENCE in what is going on --

:evilgrin:

[notesdev]

161. "told you so"

"but you didn't listen"

[LWolf]

267. Please explain.

I'm not sure if you are referring to predictions about Obama's presidency or about the sigline I used until some protested and got my sigline privileges removed.

It said "I told you so" and linked to a post I made in the primaries opposing the center-right policies in Obama's speeches and position papers.

Or...something else? Please explain.

[notesdev]

436. I was answering your question

Me and not a few others had this health care reform charade mapped out from the start, it was always an incredibly sweet deal for insurers and pharmas (and rotten for patients and providers), yet it was sold to us as some sort of anti-corporate-gouging measure.

Now there'll be rationing for you and me, standards will go to shit, people forced at IRS-point to buy into the system, and fat fat fat and government-guaranteed profits for the corps... corps which can barely claim any productive function to justify their existence, I should add.

I plan to defy this law. If they want to put me in jail for not having corporate government-approved insurance then let them.

[LWolf]

462. Got it, thanks. nt

[Enthusiast]

166. Don't say it!

You will be tombstoned.

[joe black]

227. double secret chess.

[peace frog]

408. Make that "double secret probation chess"

Brother D-Day and Brother Bluto said so. :evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

284. There's this to say . . . "You just can't make this stuff up!" --- Bill Moyers report ...

For some good background on Fowler and the insidious role she played in killing the public option, watch Bill Moyers' recent segment here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ5tj4cN9Jk


and ...

Clearly, this is a telling indictment of the health care law itself, strongly suggesting that it was constructed by the Obama administration - as some progressives argued - as a massive taxpayer-financed giveaway to private insurers like Wellpoint. And let's be honest: In investment terms, Fowler has been a jackpot for the health industry. The industry maximized her public policy experience for their own uses when they plucked her out of the Senate. Then, having lined her pockets, they deposited her first into a key Senate committee to write the new health care law that they will operate under, and now into the administration that will implement said law. Any bets on how much Fowler will make when Wellpoint (or another health insurer) inevitably rehires her in a few years?



http://www.openleft.com/diary/19449/obama-hires-fmr-wellpoint-exec-to-implement-health-care-law

[LWolf]

288. I wasn't happy with the Health Insurance Bill BEFORE reading this.

:(

[QC]

3. Actually, this is a brilliant chess move.

Or so we will soon be told ad nauseum.

[MannyGoldstein]

9. 37-dimensional chess

I certainly feel like I'm being beaten in 37 dimensions at once...

[izquierdista]

10. I believe it's called QxQ

Or "here, I'm not going to use my queen, so you can have another one."

[slay]

111. lol

yeah even Data from Star Trek the Next Generation doesn't play chess THAT well.. heheh

[paparush]

203. Yep. And in this game, we're the pawns who get sacrificed to protect the

elites on the back row.

[liberation]

338. That is what always bothered me about the people using Chess as a proper analogy

anyone who plays chess with any degree of proficiency knows that the pawns are the most expendable pieces and that the ultimate objective of the game is to protect the royal pieces.

[paparush]

481. Exactly, brother pawn.

[G_j]

4. no, you can not make this shit up nt

[Xithras]

5. Wellpoint wrote it, so why not?

Who better to implement it than a shill for the corrupt healthcorps that created it and funded its passage? She's a perfect fit!

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asdjrocky]

As long as he's not responsible.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Kinda like hiring Dracula to run the Blood Bank. K&R

[Soylent Brice]

194. best analogy yet. n/t

[90-percent]

197. another analogy

Kinda like John Wayne Gacy running the day care center.

-90% Jimmy

[Lorien]

224. Exactly. nt

[inna]

333. perfect analogy.

:thumbsup:

[Ignis]

447. Comparing a Wellpoint exec to a blood-sucking, undead fiend is an INSULT!

...to vampires.

[LaurenG]

8. Gah!

The only thing I can say is at least she has had experience from the other side and may know how to deal better with insurance companies because of it. :(

[griffi94]

13. she should at least be efficient.

having now worked on both sides, she should be able to find the loopholes very quickly.

[asdjrocky]

15. Hell, she wrote the loopholes into the bill.

More of no one watching the watchers.

[griffi94]

18. right

but you have admit it should make the public fleecing more efficient.
you need to look at the bright side, and not be such a doom and gloomer.
just damn

[asdjrocky]

19. Well, they've always told us Capitalism is efficient.

Proof in action.

[griffi94]

22. HOORAY

we've proved stuff. see another win.

[Abq_Sarah]

48. This is corporatism

Not capitalism.

[Hydra]

122. Correction: Capitalism in all its glory

Beautiful, isn't it? It's like a well-oiled machine. Each move perfectly calculated to strip the cash out of each moment and put it in the hands of people who already own almost everything.

And the last laugh? The truly ignorant in America call it "Socialism," because they were told so.

[defendandprotect]

125. Sad, indeed --

Yes, it is capitalism -- elites/royalists simply morphed into capitalists/corporatists --

It's a suicidal concept -- and nature will have the lastd word on this unless we find a way

soon to turn this around -- !!???

:)

[havocmom]

150. Nope. With so many corporatists in the administration & writing bills for Congress,

It's the f word not capitalism.

[justabob]

153. yep

and more and more people I encounter out there in the world are actually using the f-word... correctly. I guess it is good that more people are noticing, but it is such a shame that it took so long and cost so much.

[newspeak]

350. Right!!!

It's the big, fat "F" word!

[defendandprotect]

276. Corporatism is fascism . . .

Fascism begins in Northern Italy -


The Unholy Trinity . . . .

Patriarchy/Organized Patriarchal Religion/Capitalism --

Vatican invented capitalism when Feudalism was no longer sufficient to run its

Papal States --




Elites/Royals simply morphed into capitalists --

Corporations are part of capitalism --

[inna]

420. Exactly. The funniest thing is that 55% of Americans think that "Obama is a socialist".

I'm not kidding you, this is the data from a recent poll.

[Radical Activist]

146. A Democrat with extensive insider knowledge of the insurance industry.

Makes perfect sense. It sounds different when you take out all the speculative mind reading about intentions added in by Sirota.

[Greyhound]

173. In you rmind, I suppose.

:rofl:

To those of us that do not live there, it still sounds like another scam of, for, and by the parasites class. And it smells bad, too.

[laughingliberal]

230. +1000 nt

[pattmarty]

184. Jesusfuckingchrist!! Blinders?

[Radical Activist]

383. As long as you believe everything you read on the internet

try this one
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/7/15/884431/-Liz-Fowler-is-the-worst-person-in-the-world-and-why-there-is-no-PO-

[pattmarty]

386. Boy are you "radical". Standing up for and "shilling" for an obvious......

.......corporate lackey. I'm going to school you Radical Activist, see when you stand up for and shill for "corporate" hacks you are not Radical but a Reactionary. So from now on I will refer to you as the "Reactionary Activist". Remember: Radical=left, Reactionary=right, got it?

[Radical Activist]

397. Have you noticed how you never respond to my arguments?

You just start name-calling insults? I have. The ability to read critically instead of following the blagosphere knee-jerk groupthink is one of the things that makes me a radical. Try it sometime.

[TheKentuckian]

483. An article of faith is not an argument. You can believe the Universe was blown

out of some super nose and no one can disprove it.

[inna]

421. Radicals can be right wing. Actually, absolute majority of radicals are RW, not LW. nt

[Radical Activist]

428. I don't believe that is a correct use of the word radical.

I know "radical" gets thrown around a lot as a synonym for "extremist" but historically it is a left-wing term. Patty's attempted usage of reactionary is correct, but unfortunately it's just another in a long line of insults he throws at me instead of arguments.

[asdjrocky]

440. Second time this poorly writen crap has been linked in this thread.

Is this the best you have?

Do you like wearing blinders?

[Radical Activist]

446. Did it get a meaningful response

the other time it was posted?

[asdjrocky]

449. How sad.

How very, very sad.

[Radical Activist]

454. Yes, sad that you have absolutely no response or counterpoint but still write something anyway.

I know, I know, if a liberal blogger accuses Obama of doing something un-liberal we're all supposed to fall in line without question. Right?

[asdjrocky]

455. Not at all.

You're absolutely free to decide for yourself, and argue your point. I have a real problem with putting crocodiles in the citizen pond and that, from my point of view, and many others I might add, that is what Ms Fowler is, a crocodile. Read up a bit on her, if you were in favor of the PO, she was instrumental in defeating it. That matters to me, that's my point.

If you look at the Gulf, it's clear what happens when we mix the regulators with the industry.

I don't want to be rude, so I really can't say much more except, I don't think you're being fully authentic in your arguments here, and so we seem to be at an impasse.

Right?

[Radical Activist]

459. Conservative Democratic Senators killed the public option.

All the attempts to blame Obama or one Senate staffer are ridiculous. Yes, I find all the attempts to blame anyone except those few Senators who are most responsible to be bizarre.

[asdjrocky]

460. Who did she work for?

One of the biggest opponents of the Public Option. Seriously, doesn't that tell you anything? Anything at all?

[mzmolly]

406. What would Pat Buchanan say?

:eyes:

[walldude]

283. LMAO.. yeah and Cheney's energy commission with all those energy insiders

worked so well... For the energy companies. Hey I have an idea, why don't we let Wall Street regulate itself, and the oil companies, pretty soon everythng will be running smooth as silk... :rofl: :rofl:

[liberation]

339. LOL.... you never dissapoint

Somewhere in an unmarked grave El Che is rotating at furious speeds.

[Radical Activist]

377. Thanks.

I'm sure Che wouldn't have been gullible about believing every spin of a bourgeois writer who supported a pandering DLC fake like John Edwards.

[TheKentuckian]

482. Oh ye of infinite, inexhaustible, and self renewing faith

That's the same kind of lie I told myself and spread to others to justify LarDawg, Timmeh, Gates, Vilsack, Salazar, and friends and just as silly and false.

[TBF]

201. Yes she will very efficiently deny all claims... nt

[katandmoon]

11. We. Are. Screwed.

[anarch]

12. well that makes about as much sense as everything else

shit, why not?

[slipslidingaway]

14. Bill Moyers show - transcript and video links ...

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10092009/transcript4.html

Video clip from the Moyers segment - about 5 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ5tj4cN9Jk

Max Baucus special thanks for Liz Fowler's health care 'assistance' - 5 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhfhfMlWz-I

"...BILL MOYERS: You know from the news that early next week the Senate Finance Committee is expected to vote on its version of health care reform. And therein lies another story of money and politics.

Polls show the overwhelming majority of Americans favor a non-profit alternative -- like Medicare -- that would give the private health insurance industry some competition. But if so many Americans and the President himself want that public option, how come we're not getting one?

Because, the medicine has been poisoned from day one, in part because of that same revolving door that Congresswoman Kaptur and Simon Johnson were just talking about. Movers and shakers rotate between government and the lucrative private sector at a speed so dizzying they forget who they're working for.

SEN. MAX BAUCUS: Our plan does not include a public option.

BILL MOYERS: Take a close look at that woman sitting behind Montana Senator Max Baucus. He's the Democrat who's the Chairman of the Finance Committee. Liz Fowler is her name. And now get this. She used to work for WellPoint, the largest health insurer in the country. She was Vice President of Public Policy. And now she's working for the very committee with the most power to give her old company and the entire industry exactly what they want: higher profits, and no competition from alternative non-profit coverage that could lower costs and premiums.

I'm not making this up. Here's another little eye-opener. The woman who was Baucus' top health advisor before he hired Liz Fowler? Her name is Michelle Easton. Why did she leave the Committee? To go to work -- where else? -- at a firm representing the same company Liz Fowler worked for WellPoint. As a lobbyist.

It's the old Washington shell game. Lobbyist out, lobbyist in. And it's why they always win.

They've been plowing this ground for years, but with the broad legislative agenda of the Obama White House, it's more fertile than ever. The health insurance industry alone has six lobbyists for every member of Congress, and more than 500 of them are former congressional staff members...


...Of course, like water seeking its own level, big money finds its way around every obstacle, and was soon up to its old tricks, filling the pockets of friendly politicians. Today none dare call it treason. So how about calling it what it is: a friendly takeover of government. A leveraged buyout of democracy.

Outrageous? You bet. But don't just get mad. Get busy."

[asdjrocky]

16. Great addition, hell this should be an op.

The Moyers segment is at the link, I should have thought to include it in my op.

Thanks!

on edit-
don't ya hate it when you spot something dumb like 10 mins later? Changed "edition" to addition.

[slipslidingaway]

31. Saw the video link, that is why I looked for the transcript link as well...

you're welcome :)

[sabrina 1]

53. Thank you. Just disgusting. I recall Obama talking about the

lobbyist problem in DC and how he was going to deal with that. I guess this is how, same old way it's always been dealt with.

This should be an OP. I'm at the point now where I think this WH has sealed itself off, even from Congressional Democrats who are also angry over how they are being treated, and only talks to Big Business.

Congress better get their act together and stop supporting this WH or face losing their own jobs.

Obama apparently doesn't know any Democrats he can call on for advice. Every time, it's a rightwinger. Alan Simpson, Judd Gregg, Pete Peterson. There are so many Republicans making policy in this WH from SS to the Wars, it's to tell that the American people thought they were voting for a Democrat.

[slipslidingaway]

96. The whole HC reform process was disgusting, but there really is not much...

people can do about it, unless they are willing to vote outside of their own party.

:(

[sabrina 1]

301. Yes, a terrible choice. But because of these constant

betrayals, I think many people will do that and anything good that HAS happened will be undone. I am so angry at Democrats for making this even a remote possibility. We needed to keep Republicans in the minority for decades to be able to undo the harm of the past decade alone.

Nice going Dems. because they will be the ones I blame if Republicans win in November.

[slipslidingaway]

496. Very angry as well for what could have been :( n/t

[slay]

113. I wish I could K&R this post within a post

bill moyers - the man who i wish had been president.

[slipslidingaway]

133. Thanks, Moyers is missed :( n/t

[Enthusiast]

168. Thank you, slipslidingaway. nt

[slipslidingaway]

492. You're welcome Enthusiast :) n/t

[puzzlingpond]

178. Thanks.

[slipslidingaway]

493. My pleasure and welcome to DU ...

:hi:

[BuelahWitch]

236. Especially when he campaigned on getting lobbyists OUT of gov't

Must have been secret code for "they'll be running everything, so they're really not lobbyists, are they?"

[IndianaGreen]

442. You don't need lobbyists when the corporations own the government

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHd_jXtp4Rs

[slipslidingaway]

495. Just former VP's :( n/t

[Ruby the Liberal]

17. Ugh.

K&R

[branders seine]

20. I think I just made up my mind about voting in 2010 and 2012.

[depakid]

21. The "good news" about this administration just keeps coming...

[BrklynLiberal]

23. wonderful...Just f**kin wonderful.

[QC]

24. I bet Jane Hamsher made him do this! n/t

[asdjrocky]

25. You caught me.

I just can't help it. She has this strange control over me.

(That was too funny by the way.)

[laughingliberal]

233. ROFL!! nt

[kenny blankenship]

26. Jesus, does this fail bus ever stop?

[LWolf]

32. Apparently not. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

27. Popcorn, anyone?

:popcorn:

[Dinger]

58. Don't Be Greedy With That Shit Stinky!

Share! (Pretty please):) :popcorn:

[Cleita]

28. I never figured out why he thinks the foxes are the

best entities to fix the hen house. He did it with the commission to do health care, with BP and now this.

[inna]

424. Actually, the VERY worst one was Geithner/Bernanke/Summers.

Truly placing Dracula in charge of the Blood Bank, as someone mentioned in this thread.

[Cleita]

432. Yes, you are right.

I forgot about them.

[slipslidingaway]

29. Fowler - Vice President for Public Policy and External Affairs WellPoint, Inc.

http://www.healthcareroundtable.net/public/307.cfm

"Elizabeth J. Fowler serves as Vice President of Public Policy and External Affairs for WellPoint, Inc. Liz has more than 15 years experience in health services research and health policy. Prior to current job, she served as the Chief Health and Entitlements Counsel for the U.S. Senate Committee on Finance. In this capacity, she was responsible for overseeing health policy issues within the Committee's jurisdiction, including Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, health tax issues and initiatives to provide health coverage for the uninsured.

She played a key role in the 2003 Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act (MMA).

Liz was an attorney with the Washington law firm Hogan & Hartson, and she spent nearly five years as a health services researcher with HealthSystem Minnesota. Liz received a B.A. from the University of Pennsylvania, a Ph.D. from the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, where her research focused on risk adjustment, and a law degree (J.D.) from the University of Minnesota. She is admitted to the bars of the District of Columbia and Maryland."

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

205. A key role in that stellar piece of legislation that specifically forbids drug negotiation

in Medicare.

A complete farce and it remains a complete farce. It was also farcical that President Obama said he was for this most basic provision to save Americans money when he campaigned and then dropped the issue when he "negotiated" 80 billion over ten years from Pharma - drop in the bucket compared to the money price negotiation would save. Why do we take anything they say seriously? It what they do and who they appoint.

And yes, I am speaking specifically of the Obama administration. This is just more of the same. The ever growing skulk of foxes guarding the American henhouse.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Medicare_legislation

[laughingliberal]

237. Yep. A hand in Medicare part D & the new corporate suck up HCR bill. This one's got real cred! nt

[slipslidingaway]

272. The Medicare Prescription Drug Act and Fowler's role needs to explored more ...

thanks for noticing :)

Health Care: 10 Staffers to Know
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/54_111/news/33652-1.html?type=printer_friendly

"...Fowler leads the Finance Democrats’ health care team. She coordinates health care reform efforts and works closely with the staff of ranking member Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), along with Senate and House leadership.

The role requires Fowler to be a troubleshooter. “It is my job to find that common ground and mend fences if they need to be mended,” she said.

That skill was put to the test when Fowler helped pass the Medicare Modernization Act, which provided a prescription drug benefit for seniors and was one of the hallmark health care accomplishments of the Bush administration.

This effort was “personally and professionally, one of the most challenging times in my life,” Fowler said, because the issues were so complex and Democrats found themselves left out of much of the Republican-led negotiations.

Fowler believes the biggest challenge this year will be “getting the numbers to work” by ensuring that the votes are there to pass health care reform.

Various health care lobbyists cited Fowler’s work on the prescription drug benefit as an example of her skill in finding compromises.

Still, Fowler’s willingness to work with Republicans and the Bush administration on the MMA could be a hindrance to future negotiations, said one Senate Democratic aide, who added that many Democrats felt that Baucus undercut Senate leadership by reaching a deal with the Bush administration.

“I think a lot of old-timers are going to remember the fights over the MMA,” the staffer said..."

[slipslidingaway]

275. The Medicare Prescription Drug Act and her role needs to be explored more...

thanks for noticing.

Health Care: 10 Staffers to Know
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/54_111/news/33652-1.html?type=printer_friendly

"Fowler leads the Finance Democrats’ health care team. She coordinates health care reform efforts and works closely with the staff of ranking member Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), along with Senate and House leadership.

The role requires Fowler to be a troubleshooter. “It is my job to find that common ground and mend fences if they need to be mended,” she said.

That skill was put to the test when Fowler helped pass the Medicare Modernization Act, which provided a prescription drug benefit for seniors and was one of the hallmark health care accomplishments of the Bush administration.

This effort was “personally and professionally, one of the most challenging times in my life,” Fowler said, because the issues were so complex and Democrats found themselves left out of much of the Republican-led negotiations.

Fowler believes the biggest challenge this year will be “getting the numbers to work” by ensuring that the votes are there to pass health care reform.

Various health care lobbyists cited Fowler’s work on the prescription drug benefit as an example of her skill in finding compromises.

Still, Fowler’s willingness to work with Republicans and the Bush administration on the MMA could be a hindrance to future negotiations, said one Senate Democratic aide, who added that many Democrats felt that Baucus undercut Senate leadership by reaching a deal with the Bush administration.

“I think a lot of old-timers are going to remember the fights over the MMA,” the staffer said."

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elehhhhna]

33. cheney's not the only poli without a pulse, obviously

[WillyT]

34. :FacePalm:

:facepalm:

[Canuckistanian]

35. And Obama appointed her...

Any doubts that the public option was ever on the table?

[griffi94]

36. nope

what would be the point of getting the mandate provision in if they were just going to put in a public option. that doesn't enrich anybody.

[BzaDem]

114. The public option would fail immediately if there were no mandate.

Only the sick would buy insurance (and the healthy would wait until they got sick). This means premiums for the public option would have to cover a very sick pool (and costs thousands/month), causing an insurance death spiral were more healthy people flee the pool and rates go even higher.

[laughingliberal]

240. Oh! Thank GOD the PO failed!!!! nt

[liberation]

407. See he did it for our own "good"

us mere proles not understanding the magnitude of the genius required to play n-dimensional chess properly. We're so not worthy!

[liberation]

404. In other words corporate profitability comes before people's health, got it.

[Coyote_Bandit]

37. Color me unimpressed

and looking for a good progressive candidate to vote for in the next primary season.

Meaningful healthcare reform is my line in the sand. IMHO, the current incumbent is an utter failure on that measure.

[Agony]

38. Great! I feel soooo much better now with all the change happ'nin and all...

[griffi94]

39. i'm sure it will be fixed later

like after every last nickle has been sucked from the working poor, then they'll repeal it.

[KansasVoter]

40. If I read this on freeperville I would not believe it.

[MannyGoldstein]

41. Can you elaborate?

Thanks!

[KansasVoter]

42. I would think they were making it up.

[MannyGoldstein]

44. Whew.

I thought you might be comparing us to Freepers!

Thanks!

[KansasVoter]

47. No, it just seems impossible to me this is a good idea.

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

43. and so forth and so on......

[Dinger]

45. Well, That About Does It

What can I say in response and still remain a member of DU?

[Enthusiast]

170. Obama was only given bad advice?

:rofl:

[LWolf]

268. Nothing, really.

:(

[bobbolink]

351. 0.

0.

[kath]

359. Well, the "he's playing multi-dimensional chess" thing usually seems to work.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

suffering severe case of outrage- and disgust-fatigue here.

[kath]

362. delete - dupe

[Ignis]

365. "It's only ONE appointment!"

;)

[Nay]

448. It about does it for me, too. I have nothing left to hope for. Luckily, I

can move straight to Canada when I retire in 3 or 4 years. And that's what I will be doing.

[dflprincess]

46. If he wanted an insider to oversee this

Obama could have asked Wendell Potter. But I suppose Potter couldn't be trusted because he might actually have tried to regulate the industry.

[QC]

50. Just declare that it's all part of a fiendishly brilliant plan far beyond

the capacity of mere mortals to comprehend.

[Name removed]

164. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TK421]

181. you got the fiendish part right

[havocmom]

152. HA! Whistle-blowers don't get jobs now. They get prosecuted.

Guess that was what the president meant about fixing the lobbyist problems? Protect them from the whistle-blowers.

Potter has been lucky so far. But I wouldn't be surprised at ANYTHING Fowler does to him now.

[gateley]

159. Yes! Potter would have been perfect! nt

[Enthusiast]

171. Same with financial reform

and with the Catfood Commission. The same sort of insiders appointed.

[BuelahWitch]

238. Wendell Potter is overseeing finance reform

He had too much on his plate already!

[BuelahWitch]

241. wrong spot

didn't mean to talk to myself...

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

264. Excellent point. A man who spoke out about the real corruption within the industry

Wendell Potter is a person whose appointment would have had the exact opposite effect of Fowler's.

That would have meant something.

[Gold Metal Flake]

49. There was no one better he could have chosen.

No one!


In the entire world!


This was the best choice!


I'm series!

[ProSense]

51. Here's something to consider

the new MLR rule.

[asdjrocky]

54. That is so strange.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the story and link I posted. I'm sure, by your high standards, that I'm far too dim to get the connection.

Can you explain this to me, slowly, without using a lot of big words and initials and irrelevant links?

[ProSense]

61. It's about the law Fowler "wrote" n/t

[asdjrocky]

64. Still don't get it.

Guess I'm just slow.

[griffi94]

67. well it's about one small piece of the law fowler wrote.

the other pieces are mandates and no public option. still i can't speak for anybody else but i had no idea that a wellpoint exec had written the law. so in fact the insurance lobby got what they wanted because they wrote it, and now they'll be charged with implementing it and then liz fowler will resign her govt post and go back to being an exec at wellpoint.

the transparancy and not pandering to special interests are truly underwhelming.

that one little piece of the bill that you posted won't get the taste of ass out of anybodys mouth.

[laughingliberal]

243. It's about one small piece where the industry got the MLR set at the level they wanted & Potter...

went on record saying the industry had planned for this for years, believing 85%, which is where it's set would be the level at which they could best manipulate the numbers.

[griffi94]

55. i read the story at your link

what does that have to do with obama putting a healthcorp exec. in charge of implementing the hcr bill. a healthcorp exec who worked for wellpoint and will no doubt at some future time be working for them again.

[asdjrocky]

56. Then I'm not crazy?

I do have to admit to being medicated, :smoke: , but no way I'm that high.

[griffi94]

59. that link

was a story about what % of the premiums had to be spent on patient care as opposed to adimistration fees.
in real like that probly wont mean shit because imho the insurance lobby isn't going away. hell they've been put in charge.
so i now fully expect this bill be changed like the supporters always said....except now i expect it will get even worse.

[eridani]

130. They'll just reclassify their bullshit artists as care providers

They are doing so already.

[Dinger]

60. I Think It's Deceptive To Camouflage Links LIke That

You know, making suckers out of people who click it. Kinda nasty in my opinion, and manipulative.

[ProSense]

62. It's identified: new MLR rule.

How is that camoflaged?

[Dinger]

65. Whatever

Keep talkin' if that works for you.:)

[Name removed]

148. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

69. I agree. It should not be allowed. n/t

[Name removed]

154. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kuroman992]

384. +1

i agree.
It reminds me of what bill maher said about the right-wing one time. They are not trying to win the argument, they just want to muddy it up enough for some to walk away and say "its a wash". Brilliant strategy, but utterly useless at giving real evidence of anything

[Name removed]

402. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jgraz]

435. At this point, it's more tragedy than comedy.

[Ignis]

486. The best one can do is learn from a poster's habits.

It's not perfect, but it's the best we can expect, I guess. :shrug:

[Nite Owl]

210. No, you are not crazy

this story is quite straightforward and I don't know how anyone can defend this.

[laughingliberal]

246. Well, nothing. Just the usual distraction from the topic at hand. nt

[Catherina]

297. Nothing. That was the whole point of embedding it. But it did distract you for a few seconds n/t

[cornermouse]

84. Here's something for you to consider, Prosense.

http://www.prwatch.org/node/8507

Wendell Potter: You don’t really focus on it or understand the significance of it. I’ll admit I knew that Wall Street looked at the medical-loss ratio. I knew it was an important measure. I didn’t know until, frankly, very recently how important it was. As recently as fifteen years ago, the medical-loss ratio in this country was 95 percent. Since then, there’s been great industry consolidation to the point that now there are seven companies that dominate. They’re all for-profit. During the time that this consolidation, this shift to for-profit occurred, the medical-loss ratio has continued to drop. Now it’s around 80 percent. That means twenty cents of every dollar goes to something other than paying medical claims. Just fifteen years ago, ninety-five cents of every dollar went to paying medical claims. This trend is due to pressure from Wall Street. If a company misses Wall Street’s expectations—if the medical-loss ratio starts to inch up—the company will suffer. I’ve seen companies lose 20 percent of their stock value in one day by disappointing Wall Street with their medical-loss ratio.

Guernica: So are you saying our healthcare system would be better off if medical insurance companies weren’t publicly traded?

Wendell Potter: We would not have the same problems. Just look at what’s happened since 1993, the beginning of the conversion to for-profit status. The two biggest companies now are Wellpoint and United. In 1993, they were very small. They’ve grown to their size and influence through very aggressive acquisition strategies. In Wellpoint’s case, they bought up many non-profit Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans around the country, which have since converted to for-profit status. United has had a similar strategy. Aetna and Cigna are third and fourth in size, and they, too, have grown largely by acquisition. The fixation that Wall Street has with the medical-loss ratio has created huge problems because investors look at that measure even more than they look at earnings-per-share, which is the primary measure that investors look at in most industries.

It all comes back to Wall Street, not the patient.

[ProSense]

98. While we're considering things:

Wendell Potter used to work for Cigna.

Try convincing anyone that the insurance companies were more honest 15 years ago, spending 95 percent of the dollar on care.

Why did anyone bother trying to reform the system? That's better than Medicare's.

When Wall Street isn't calling the shots, the outcome is decidedly better for health care consumers. Government-operated plans, such as Medicare, and some organizations that provide coordinated care, consistently maintain higher medical loss ratios. Kaiser had a 90.6 percent MLR in 2007. Between 1993 and 2007, Medicare's MLR hasn't dropped below 97 percent.

link

[cornermouse]

104. That's in the article, Prosense.

Actually its been in every article I read about Mr. Potter and medical-loss ratio.

Look. I'm not real happy about HCR at all and that's not a secret. Believe it or not, I did have a few hopes that things would improve under Obama. I hoped I was wrong but I don't think I am. I think the last hope for real change is the midterm election coming up if the democratic party loses its majority and if we continue to sink so badly that the few sane republicans become alarmed enough at the state of the nation to abandon the republican party.

[pattmarty]

187. I don't mean to bust on you, but you are dreaming. We ARE going.........

.........to lose seats in both Houses (although the "pros" don't think the Dems will lose control) and it will make the job that much harder to pass a goddamn thing. The two years from 2010-12 will be a clusterfuck and may make the last two look like a hippie love fest.

[obxhead]

347. Considering some of the stuff that is getting passed

Maybe locking it up into a solid do nothing stalemate is best.

Yes, yes, of course some good has been able to shine through, but imho the fails of the biggest items have cast a significant shadow on the good.

[pattmarty]

371. Yeah, at this point I'd be happy with just "breaking even" and not...........

............fucking the country up any further.

[sabrina 1]

109. Wendell Potter quit Cigna after seeing how his Corporate buddies

were literally contributing to the deaths of Americans and helping to turn this country into a third world country. His conscience finally kicked in after seeing Americans lining up like people in the third world, to try to get free treatment in animal stalls, in the rain and the cold. In this country.

He then became a Whistle-Blower. You might have added that very important piece of information. Lucky for him, he has escaped being prosecuted, as so many other whistle-blowers have been recently.


Another interesting thing. When asked by Bill Moyers how his friends in the Private Ins. Industry reacted when he told him what he had seen, did they feel as he did, the least little bit guilty? No, he said, they saw all those uncovered Americans as a huge, potential market.

And how did they make that dream come true? By working with a Democratic WH to get public funds funneled through their greedy little hands. Forcing every citizen to buy healthcare. And if they couldn't afford it, Medicaid funds would to to the Private Industry where approx. 20% would go to profits, instead of to actual care. A dream come true made possible by Democrats. Republicans were jealous as not even they could have pulled it off.

[laughingliberal]

249. +1000 nt

[inna]

429. ^^^

Very important info, thank you for making this point and for the link.


One thing I didn't know was that the conversion to for-profit status started in 1993.

And just to think that only 15 years ago the MLR was 95%.

:(

[cornermouse]

87. And.....

http://www.prwatch.org/node/8977

The insurance industry tried unsuccessfully to strip the minimum medical-loss ratio provision from the bill. It wanted to have the freedom to keep spending less and less on medical care because every dollar not paid out in claims is a dollar that can be used instead to increase profits and to pay CEOs millions of dollars every year. Having lost the battle on Capitol Hill, the insurers are now turning their attention to the NAIC, which Congress gave the responsibility of determining the nitty-gritty details of how insurers will have to comply with the law. Rest assured that the insurers will be pulling out all the stops to persuade the insurance commissioners to make it easy for them to meet the requirements of the new law by manipulating the definition of medical care. One of the things insurers will try to do, for example, is to get the NAIC to let them shift a lot of what insurers now count as administrative expenses into their medical expense category. If that happens, the insurers will look like they're suddenly spending more on medical care without changing anything at all.

[eridani]

129. Which has been a total abject FAILURE in all 15 states where it has been tried

That useless parasite will be giving the mass murderers plenty of tips on how to juggle the books, no doubt.

[BlueCheese]

52. I always like the video of Baucus tearing up...

... when thanking Fowler for her critical role in shaping the health insurance reform plan. Interesting how in his long decsription of her he neglects to mention what she did when she was in the private sector. Truly a touching moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhfhfMlWz-I

[asdjrocky]

57. Welcome to DU BlueCheese!

And yeah, no need to click, I've seen the video and it made me want to puke.

[OhioChick]

63. Niiice n/t

[mzmolly]

66. You mean he's hired someone with experience in "health services research and health policy?"

Horrors!

http://www.healthcareroundtable.net/public/307.cfm

Elizabeth J. Fowler, PHD, JD

Vice President for Public Policy and External Affairs
WellPoint, Inc.

Elizabeth J. Fowler serves as Vice President of Public Policy and External Affairs for WellPoint, Inc. Liz has more than 15 years experience in health services research and health policy. Prior to current job, she served as the Chief Health and Entitlements Counsel for the U.S. Senate Committee on Finance. In this capacity, she was responsible for overseeing health policy issues within the Committee's jurisdiction, including Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, health tax issues and initiatives to provide health coverage for the uninsured. She played a key role in the 2003 Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act (MMA).

Liz was an attorney with the Washington law firm Hogan & Hartson, and she spent nearly five years as a health services researcher with HealthSystem Minnesota. Liz received a B.A. from the University of Pennsylvania, a Ph.D. from the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, where her research focused on risk adjustment, and a law degree (J.D.) from the University of Minnesota. She is admitted to the bars of the District of Columbia and Maryland.

[asdjrocky]

68. That was the argument when Bush hired people from within the industry-

to regulate that industry.

It makes no sense. If you wanted the PO in any way, shape or form, you have to realize, she worked for the Senator that stood in it's way, and a corporation that spent millions to defeat it.

How is this a good idea? How is it that it was not a good idea two years ago, but it is now?

[Dinger]

70. The Fox Guarding The Henhouse Is Never A good Idea, No Matter Who (D/r) Does It (nt)

[mzmolly]

78. Except she's not a guard

or a fox. She's a woman with expertise, and a Ph.D. from the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.

[Dinger]

79. Keep It Up (nt)

[mzmolly]

81. Will

do. :D

[Hawkowl]

162. And W has an MBA from Yale!

I don't give a shit what someone's paper qualifications. I care about how they used them--for good or for evil. Wellpoint is evil. Killing the public option is evil.

Obama thinks compromising with evil simply makes you neutral.

[laughingliberal]

252. I bet all those meeting with Cheney behind closed doors on energy policy had great qualifications!

(sigh)

[QC]

271. They certainly knew a lot about the oil business! n/t

[mzmolly]

302. Was there some closed door meeting

I'm unaware of? :eyes:

[laughingliberal]

500. No, just an appointment of another industry shill.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pattmarty]

188. So were all the smart people that were/are running Wall St. And..............

.........your fucking point?

[mzmolly]

316. Your point first.

eom

[pattmarty]

375. Sorry, I don't play that game.

[walldude]

289. Yes she is, and she's working back and forth between

Wellpoint and the Senate. Are you blind? No longer should anyone be involved in policy when they are sitting in a position to PROFIT from their decisions in the future.

Were you happy when Cheney used energy company officials to make energy policy? That worked out so well... I remember those guys laughing about how they were going to "steal" grandma's social security to increase their profits.

Hell yeah it's a great plan :eyes:

[mzmolly]

300. Now I get it! Obama got elected so that he could

give away mass amounts of tax payer money to big insurance! Liz Fowler is a mere cog in the great wheel of his nefarious plan!



Thanks for enlightening me.

[walldude]

315. *Sigh*

You know what? You can't admit that the man is human and is making mistakes. That would be so much less fucked up if people weren't suffering due to the decisions made by putting political considerations above the good of the people.

Why can't you just admit that this is a piss poor choice considering there were much better options?

[mzmolly]

318. What better options? I can admit he's made mistakes. I don't think he's done

enough on job creation, for one. I agree with Krugmann that we needed a larger stim package. I think he needs to be more aggressive against Republicans... But I don't see scandal around every corner because someone with experience in industry is given a related job with the administration.

[mzmolly]

72. Again, she's not a regulator.

Regarding two years ago, I don't recall Bush passing health care reform.

[griffi94]

75. i recall

everybody here screaming bloody murder when cheney wouldn't make public which oil execs he had met with when putting together an energy policy.

but i'm sure this is somehow different, that's not really special interests getting to write a law they'll benefit from.
oh and did i mention that i am in fact......wait for it.....BATMAN

[mzmolly]

76. Yes, it IS very different. To have secret meetings allowing oil execs

to dictate policy DOES IN FACT differ from hiring someone with experience in a given industry, to oversee a program.

[asdjrocky]

85. What is her job then?

Liz Fowler, a key staffer for U.S. Sen. Max Baucus who helped draft the federal health reform bill enacted in March, is joining the Obama administration to help implement the new law. Fowler, chief health counsel for the Senate Finance Committee, which Baucus chairs, will become deputy ...

From Beltway-
http://dailyradar.com/beltwayblips/story/baucus-staffer-who-led-health-reform-drafting-moving/

Seriously, what dose implement mean? Run it? Oversee it?

[mzmolly]

89. To implement does not mean to regulate.

It means to put into effect according to or by means of a definite plan or procedure. To regulate means to adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation: to regulate a watch.

Generally those who implement are watched by those who regulate.




Source for definitions = dictionary.reference.com

[asdjrocky]

91. Then that changes everything.

I'll relax knowing my health care future is in the hands of someone who ping pongs back and forth between Wellpoint and Congress or the Whitehouse.

Thanks totally for clearing it up. I'll do a google search to find out what strong regulators Obama has appointed.

[mzmolly]

93. Are you familiar with

Wendell Potter? Let's not assume everyone associated with an industry is corrupt.

[asdjrocky]

97. If Obama had appointed Wendell Potter to anything,

or even listened to him, we would not be having this conversation.

Obamas appointment is an industry hack and industry crony.

Here's Mr Potter on the "reform"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wendell-potter/obamas-patients-bill-of-r_b_629134.html

[mzmolly]

100. I've heard Potter on reform, and he said he supported the final

result as a starting point.

Regarding Wellpoint, it appears to have a good reputation with consumers.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=130104&p=irol-newsArticle_general&t=Regular&id=1447753&

WellPoint Named as URAC Award Finalist for Best Practices in Health Care Consumer Empowerment and Protection

Three WellPoint programs will be among distinguished award winners at URAC's 11th Annual Quality Summit, October 5-7, 2010

INDIANAPOLIS, July 14, 2010 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Three WellPoint, Inc. care management programs were recently selected as finalists for the Best Practices in Health Care Consumer Empowerment and Protection Awards. URAC, the nation's leading accreditation organization, will honor the finalists during their 11th Annual Quality Summit, October 5-7, 2010 in Chicago.

More at the link above.

[asdjrocky]

107. Report: WellPoint targets breast cancer patients for cancellation

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/04/report-wellpoint-targets-breast-cancer-patients-for-cancellation/1

WellPoint CEO Braly received a 51 percent compensation boost in 2009
http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/wellpoint-ceo-braly-received-51-percent-compensation-boost-2009/2010-04-05

Wellpoint is a terrific company.

[mzmolly]

121. It doesn't appear that either event happened under Fowler's

direction. Angela Braly is the person apparently responsible for the issues you note?

[asdjrocky]

234. Nor was she there when they won that BS industry award you touted.

You can't have it both ways you know.

[laughingliberal]

256. Oh, you! Pointing out inconsistencies is just not FAIR! nt

[asdjrocky]

259. Welcome to Bazaro world.

[mzmolly]

303. In this thread some claim that Fowler worked for Wellpoint and the Senate.

Which is it? I'm not trying to have it both ways. I simply took the word of a cynical naysayer.

[asdjrocky]

309. She worked for both!

She's been a Senate aid, helped write the "Health Care Bill" and she worked for Wellpoint. That is the whole point of it. Just read the links.

[mzmolly]

310. I'm aware of that.

She has experience in the health care industry and given we can't hire someone from the Canadian Government, she seems a solid choice.

[asdjrocky]

434. You are clearly wearing blinders.

Far enough, if that's the way you want it.

[dflprincess]

266. Wellpoint got CAUGHT while Braly was in charge

don't kid yourself that targeting cancer patients hasn't been going on for a long, long time.

[mzmolly]

308. And when someone can link Fowler to this policy

it might be relevant. Until then, it's not. Unless you are responsible for every horror you witnessed while working in the industry, yourself?

[dflprincess]

335. I was a minor functionary

and, fortunately, had nothing to do with claims or membership in any way at all. Fowler had a good deal of authority and was a policy maker. She would have known as much about this issue as Bayles.

Just because Obama likes her doesn't mean her hands are clean.

[mzmolly]

341. And, just because she worked for Wellpoint

doesn't mean her hands are dirty.

[dflprincess]

374. Given her position with them

I'd be pretty sure it does. There was no hotshot at the company I worked for that I'd feel safe turning my back on, including the ones who claimed they were Democrats.

She's been appointed to make sure the Health Insurance Profit Protection Act works for the people it was written for - the ones making the big campaign contributions.

[mzmolly]

388. But it seems the scandal was limited to a state or two.

If it were systemic, due to her leadership one would think more states would be impacted?

[dflprincess]

425. One would think it might depend on how diligent a state is about overseeing

the insurance companies operating within its boundries. Some states are better at overseeing business and enforcing regulations than others.

That's one reason the insurance company supporters think allowing them to sell across state lines is such a great idea. Like the credit cared companies, they'd all head for the state with the least regulation and enforcement.

[EFerrari]

112. Their own press releases sure thinks so..

I wonder what actual consumers think.


Wednesday, July 13, 2005

WellPoint Settles RICO Law Suit

As reported in the Los Angeles Times (and elsewhere), WellPoint has recently agreed to settle its role in a class-action lawsuit brought by California physicians under the RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) standard. WellPoint will pay about $198 million, including $135 million in damages to physicians, $5 million to set up a foundation to improve medical practices, and up to $58 million in attorney's fees. WellPoint, lead by Chief Executive Officer Larry C. Glasscock (2005 total compensation according to Forbes, $24, 970,000), is the largest health care insurer in the US.

http://hcrenewal.blogspot.com/2005/07/wellpoint-settles-rico-law-suit.html




Wednesday, January 14, 2009

Giant insurance company/ managed care organization WellPoint was just sanctioned by the US government. As reported by the Wall Street Journal,

Federal officials temporarily banned health insurer WellPoint Inc. from marketing or selling Medicare health or drug plans after they said computer problems caused it to deny thousands of seniors coverage for vital medications and cancel their benefits.

The ban, effective late Monday, is one of the toughest penalties levied on a private Medicare plan provider since the introduction of the government program's drug benefit three years ago.

In an unusually terse letter to WellPoint, the government agency that oversees Medicare said the company's 'longstanding and persistent failure to comply with requirements' had begun to pose 'a serious threat to the health and safety' of Medicare beneficiaries.

WellPoint, the country's largest health insurer, is the fourth-largest provider of Medicare drug plans.

snip

'Furthermore, WellPoint failed to follow through on assurances to CMS that the problem was immediately and fully corrected,' the agency's letter said.

http://hcrenewal.blogspot.com/2009/01/wellpoint-sanctioned.html

WellPoint Settles

As reported by the Indianapolis Star (among others), the large health insurance company/ managed care organization WellPoint is the latest company to settle charges related to its use of a questionable data-base to determine payments for out of network care:


WellPoint has agreed to pay $10 million to settle an investigation by New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo into questionable insurance reimbursements in that state.

The Indianapolis-based insurer becomes the seventh major health benefits company to settle in what authorities called an industry wide scheme to defraud consumers.

http://hcrenewal.blogspot.com/2009/02/wellpoint-settles.html

Wellpoint Raising Rates by Double Digits in at Least 11 States
Feb 24, 2010

Double-Digit Premium Increases Are Not Just in California

The recent news that WellPoint’s Anthem Blue Cross health insurance company in California wanted to increase premiums for individual policyholders as much as 39 percent is further evidence the current health system is not sustainable. And a survey by the Center for American Progress Action Fund found that California isn’t the only state where WellPoint is hiking individual premium rates by double-digit percentages. In fact, double-digit hikes have been implemented or are pending in at least 11 other states among the 14 where WellPoint’s Blue Cross Blue Shield companies are active: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Indiana, Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, Virginia, and Wisconsin.

In Maine, where WellPoint-owned Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield is by far the largest insurer, the company is seeking to raise individual rates an average of 23 percent this year.This comes after five consecutive years of double-digit premium increases by the company on these policies.


http://www.onepennysheet.com/2010/02/wellpoint-raising-rates-by-double-digits-in-at-least-11-states/

California health care lawyer alert-UnitedHealthcare accused
2009-09-12 02:26:50

snip

Los Angles, CA–California health care attorneys and consumers throughout the state are being alerted of recent accusations announced by Consumer Watchdog against two national health insurance companies, United HealthCare and WellPoint. The Santa Monica based, nationally recognized consumer group, who has been fighting against corporate and political corruption since 1985, accused two of the nation’s largest insurance companies of pressuring their employees to advocate against healthcare reform in Congress and oppose national healthcare plans, as reported by the Los Angeles Times on September 3, 2209. This is a violation of a California law prohibiting businesses from coercing their employees to participate in political activity.

snip

UnitedHealth Group is a publicly traded health care services company who insurers close to 70 million individuals nationwide with 75,000 employees according to Wikipedia http://www.wikipedia.org. The parent group of UnitedHealthcare reported a $3 billion net income in 2008. WellPoint is a United States based health insurance company, and the largest member of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association and also serves under the Anthem name. Wikipedia reveals the California Healthcare Quality Report Card 2009 Edition, released the following review ratings in a Meeting National Standards of Care and How Members Rate Their HMO: Anthem received 2 out of 4 stars, and the insurance company takes 6 to 8 weeks for an insurance quote request to arrive in the mail. WellPoint has over 42,000 employees, reported $3.095 billion in net income earnings in 2006, and spent over $2.4 million in 2009 on lobbying, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group.

http://www.justicenewsflash.com/2009/09/12/california-health-care-lawyer-alertunitedhealthcare-accused_200909122132.html

And then, there's Wellpoint, the movie.

Anthem Blue Cross: Screwing Californians for Profits

Anthem Blue Cross is spending millions on executive salaries and lobby efforts against healthcare reform -- and how are they paying for it? By forcing 39% increases on their policy holders in California.

http://sickforprofit.com/

[mzmolly]

119. So Fowler is single handedly responsible for EVERY complaint against Wellpoint,

ever? Also, it's not just Wellpoint that noted the award I posted above: http://insurancenewsnet.com/article.aspx?id=207292&type=newswires

If you have any information on Fowler specifically, please share. Providing information on every branch of Wellpoint in every state for every year they've been in business, isn't particularly relevant.

As I've noted, Fowler was a board member of the Medicare Rights Center The Medicare Rights Center works to ensure access to affordable health care for older adults and people with disabilities through counseling, educational programs and public policy initiatives.

I know some people enjoy being pissed off, but can't we have an actual reason first? Good grief.

[kuroman992]

120. my goodness

I didnt think i would see anyone actually try to justify this move here but as expected, damage control to the rescue.
At what point are we supposed to be upset about this president doing things non-democratic/liberal???

[mzmolly]

124. I'm sorry, but you don't get to

define "liberal" for me. Liberal is as liberal does and if Fowler deserves critique I'll gladly dish it. But I'm not going to piss and moan because someone with a background in health care, who worked as a Senate staffer got a promotion.

[Moochy]

128. "Liberal is as liberal does"

mmm no, you've got that confused with the forest gump line I think.

[jgraz]

158. .

Nevermind. This conversation has descended into the surreal.

[Ignis]

363. "a background in health care"

:rofl: Wow, that's quite a stretch.

I'd say my sister-in-law has "a background in health care," because she's a nurse. But Fowler? I'd say she has "a background as an insurance industry executive"--and one who's worked for some of the real nasty players in that space. Not quite the same.

Riddle me this: We wouldn't accept this sort of revolving-door bullshit when Shrub was in office; why should we accept it now?

[mzmolly]

392. Sorry did Shrub pass universal health care

when I wasn't looking?

[Ignis]

395. That's not an answer--but I didn't expect an honest answer, anyway.

It would just get in the way of spinning an event which is Bad when the Red Side does it, but Good when the Blue Side does it.

Also, I think you misplaced this:

[EFerrari]

138. I responded to your statement about Wellpoint. n/t

[Jim Sagle]

151. Hi Liz!

:hi:

[mzmolly]

304. Hi Dick.

:hi:

[havocmom]

466. No, she is not responsible for every complaint against Wellpoint

She is, however, pretty responsible for the Health Care Reform bill that made insurance stocks go up.

No one blames her for every complaint. But many chide Obama for appointing a corporate shill in a position to aid and abet the corporation further. AGAIN.

[pattmarty]

190. Do you work, have stock in or any other interest in Wellpoint?...............

........So far you sound like a fucking Wellpoint commercial.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

258. you know corporations pay internet posters for comments all the time

http://ezinearticles.com/?Making-a-Decent-Living-As-Paid-Forum-Posters&id=1770170

[Name removed]

312. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

255. Wendall Potter left the industry & has fought against their abuses since. This woman went to work

writing industry friendly legislation for Baucus. I see a difference.

[mzmolly]

319. See I consider the legislation

people friendly. As a person whose previously self employed, diabetic husband was denied health insurance/care for years, I know what a difference this legislation will make.

[laughingliberal]

497. As a person who paid $1200 per month for insurance and finally has had to go without,

I disagree. People who can already afford the inusurance who are turned down because of preexisting conditions will be better off in 2014. People who make over 400% of FPl and are over 50 will be in the same spot they are now. I think we deserved better.
As I recall, most here were assuring us it would be fixed and improved on if it passed. Since then, all I see here is the same old tired defenses of the disappointing bill and no talk of improvement.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

253. sorry, but you need to go deeper than the dictionary

any type of government regulation then requires implementation. That implementation, the drafting of the process by which the regulation is enacted and controlled by an agency, is what allows the cronyism to occur.

I suggest reading a bit more than dictionary.com for responses to a national crises.

[mzmolly]

320. I think you need to look up

cronyism.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

364. I think YOU are the one who is missing the definition of cronyism

and this link between industry and regulation is a perfect example. Any type of revolving door qualifies: when you move from assistant to a senator to industry and then back again all while laying on the cash, it is damn well cronyism.

My god, how sad. You have no idea how the regulatory process works and what it means to be able to create the guidelines used to enforce the statutes. You support this apparently because you do not understand it.

Oh, and by the way, on edit:
http://mw4.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cronyism

Pronunciation: \-nē-ˌi-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1840

: partiality to cronies especially as evidenced in the appointment of political hangers-on to office without regard to their qualifications.

Yup, that's the word I was looking for. Thanks for playing, though.

[mzmolly]

366. Oh puleeze,

I'm familiar with regulation. I worked in a heavily regulated industry for years.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

373. which might explain your ignorance of that definition

...and "worked in a heavily regulated industry for years" could very well mean "waited tables at a night club while in college", ya know.

Thanks for clearing that up, however. Carry on, brave internet warrior.

[pattmarty]

189. Medicare prescription bill. Another healthcare "reform"..

[mzmolly]

328. It wasn't paid for, but it helped

Seniors.

[newspeak]

507. Little Boots pharma bill did not help seniors

my in-laws fall in the doughnut hole every year (yeah, yeah) the new and improved health insurance bill is gonna fix that--however, the bill allowed pharma companies to raise their prices and disallowed medicare to negotiate prices with the big pharma. Also, my in-laws secondary insurance has gone up to almost one thousand dollars a month. We're talking about seniors on a fixed income with a secondary insurance at one thousand dollars. It is obscene!!!!

And, hubby and I are in our fifties, we are so screwed!!!!

[bread_and_roses]

193. I don't recall Obama passing health care reform either

This administration passed some minor health insurance reforms which it has now appointed a health insurance insider to "implement," assuring that no loophole will be over-looked and that the ghoul health insurance profiteers will be able to continue to garner profits at the expense of people.

[Ignis]

426. Oh no, it's a "universal plan!" I read it on DU!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8749680#8753759

I just can't seem to find any support for that assertion. :shrug: Go fig.

[zipplewrath]

228. He passed Medicare Part D

You have to go back more than 2 years. He passed Medicare Part D, remember?

[mzmolly]

400. I do remember,

thanks.

[griffi94]

71. and i'm sure

the president of BP has a spiffy web bio as well, with lots of praise from his peers and lists of all his professional and academic acomplishments.

that said i don't want him in charge of energy policy.

[mzmolly]

74. If Obama names the President of a disgraced oil company to head up

energy policy, you may have a point.

[griffi94]

77. well

i already have a point and obamas actions have made it valid. you can do all the verbal gymnastics you want but that really doesn't pass the stink test...this stinks.

[mzmolly]

80. It's not verbal gymnastics to note the absurdity

or your comparisons.

[griffi94]

86. yeah you're right

i grew up down on the rural route and my old grandaddy told me "son, never try to teach a pig to sing. Because it wastes your time and annoys the pig".

you've convinced me....clapping and cheering now HOORAY HOORAY

[mzmolly]

99. My old grand-mammy used to say

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ... it's probably a duck. ;)

[Name removed]

287. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

299. Yes, as is Obama. He was shilling when he spoke about his dying Mother on the campaign trail.

In fact, as I understand it, she died on purpose to "shill" for big insurance. :eyes:

[dgibby]

391. And my daddy used to say

if there's 5 people in a room and 4 of them see a dog and only one sees a duck, it's probably a dog.

[Ignis]

367. How is BP a "disgraced" oil company, yet Wellpoint isn't similarly "disgraced?"

:shrug:

[mzmolly]

398. Are you kidding me?

:shrug:

[Ignis]

412. I'll let you know when I find Wellpoint's corporate ethics amusing.

Until then, an answer would be just peachy--especially one that keeps in mind the "big scandals" of each corporation, and how fresh they are in the public/media memory.

[suffragette]

117. You mean experience working for a company that

systematically rescinded people's insurance because they filed a claim. That has repeatedly been fined for violations. That has sought huge increase in premiums and only backed down because of publicity about that. That used algorithms to target women with breast cancer and cancel their policies. But hey, they make tidy profits.
Note: Anthem/Blue Cross is a subsidiary of Wellpoint.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63M5D420100423

In July 2008, Isaacs' office sued Anthem Blue Cross, alleging that more than 6,000 people in the state of California had their insurance canceled due to its "illegal rescission practices." The litigation is ongoing.

Last February, the insurer agreed to pay a $1 million fine and an additional $14 million in restitution to alleged victims to settle another lawsuit. This one was brought against it by the California Department of Insurance, which said the company violated state laws by improperly rescinding the policies of 2,330 people.

A year earlier, Anthem Blue Cross agreed to pay a $10 million fine to settle similar charges brought by a second agency in the state, the California Department of Managed Health Care, alleging that WellPoint had illegally rescinded more than 1,100 policyholders.

~~~
The investigation last year by the House Energy and Commerce Committee determined that WellPoint and two of the nation's other largest insurance companies -- UnitedHealth Group Inc and Assurant Health, part of Assurant Inc -- made at least $300 million by improperly rescinding more than 19,000 policyholders over one five-year period.

WellPoint itself profited by more than $128 million from the practice, and the committee suggested that the figure might be largely understated because the company refused to provide information about cancellations by several subsidiaries.

[mzmolly]

126. If you can directly link Fowler to the California Blue Cross scandal

let me know.

[eridani]

137. The link is that she finds it peachy keen to work for a company with no ethical standards n/t

[mzmolly]

298. Well that would eliminate

many people who work for various companies. That goal post keeps moving eh?

[eridani]

471. She is of very high rank, not a lowly claims adjuster trying to feed her kids

Anyone who is at her level at a company like Wellpoint is ethical slime.

[uponit7771]

305. LOL!!! You've eliminated 7/8s of America...basically you have no direct link

[obxhead]

361. That leaves roughly 37 million other people that could have been

picked.

:P

[eridani]

472. Worker bees don't make policy. Slime like Fowler do. n/t

[suffragette]

139. No, I can't. But I can point out that she chose to work for a company

company that has a long and sordid history of canceling patients' policies when they need the coverage most.

I can understand when someone in desperate need of money to support themselves and their family and who feels they have no other choice does that.

But Fowler is someone who clearly has options.

She either didn't know (which means she did no research) or didn't care (not much humanity in that) or thinks that's the way to proceed (and that qualifies as callous disregard to me).

None of those possibilities speak well for her or are attributes of anyone I want anywhere near the Oversight position at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

Another example from 2007:



March 23, 2007|Lisa Girion, Times Staff Writer

Blue Cross of California "routinely" violated state law when it canceled individual health insurance coverage after policyholders got pregnant or sick, making no attempt to determine whether they did anything to merit such "harsh" treatment, according to a state investigation of practices that appear to be industrywide.

~~~

As a result of its unprecedented investigation, the Department of Managed Health Care on Thursday said that it had fined Blue Cross $1 million -- an amount immediately criticized by canceled policyholders and consumer advocates as too small to matter to an insurer whose parent company, WellPoint Inc., earned $3.1 billion in profit last year on revenue of $57 billion.

~~~

The state investigation found that Blue Cross used computer programs and a dedicated department to systematically investigate and cancel the policies of pregnant women and the chronically ill regardless of whether they intentionally lied on their applications to cover up preexisting medical conditions -- a standard required by state law for canceling individual policies.

~~~

"This looks like 'Rescission Inc.,' " said Bryan Liang, director of the Institute of Health Law Studies at California Western School of Law in San Diego. "It's clear if 100% of these individuals had their policies illegally pulled, that means that there's a problem. These are just the tip of the iceberg."

[ibegurpard]

142. excellent points

n/t

[suffragette]

145. Thanks, though I think eridani made the same basic point

quicker and more succinctly than I did.

[mzmolly]

313. They're the largest provider in the nation. I've read about the California issue. And unless what

you note was company policy, I don't hold Fowler personally responsible for EVERY shitty thing EVERY employee of Wellpoint did, sorry.

[suffragette]

505. It's an easily researched pattern of behavior

that any ethical executive could or should be aware of.

As far as company policy goes, I think actions speak very loudly. I don't expect to find unethical practices written up in company manuals as official policies. Yet from Enron to Blackwater/XE to Wellpoint and beyond, specific patterns of behavior demonstrate intent.

Being largest is no excuse. Especially since a major part of the reason they are so large is that they gobbled up regional and non-profit health plans then proceeded to apply their unethical practices to those.

Here's another case in another state. Of particular note is Judge Gilbert's description of them. This one was decided on July 11, 2006.
http://www.krislovlaw.com/opinion_7-11-06_Gilber_USDJ_upholding_complaint.pdf

Defendants’ conduct was also immoral, unethical, oppressive, and unscrupulous. Whether
or not plaintiffs have standing to premise a cause of action on Wellpoint’s representations to the
IDOI, if it did make them knowing it was going to cause Rightchoice to withdraw, the Court has
little difficulty characterizing this action as unethical and unscrupulous. Beyond its representations
to the IDOI, Wellpoint’s conscious manipulation of the requirements in Illinois HIPAA to rerate or
rid itself of those most in need of health insurance is certainly immoral, oppressive, unethical and
unscrupulous.

[unapatriciated]

327. I started my involvement in HCR in the early 90's in Ca.

It took almost 16 years for Ca to address these issues and win a settlement. Unfortunately the suit did not include many like myself who went bankrupt fighting Blue Cross in regards to denials of coverage in the early 90's. The biggest losers were insureds like my son who suffered unnecessary crippling at the hands of Blue Cross and later Cigna. I wrote letters, made phone calls and visited my local reps as well as writing every member in the house, senate and WH during three different administrations. The only help I received was from a local attorney (William Shernoff) who helped me fight the denials. I eventually won, but my son lost because of the long wait and constant fighting for covered care. When I read this HCR bill I saw no penalties for wrongful denials and pointed it out many times only to be told "pass it now we will fix it later'.
Yes the fix is in for the Industry. Sadly we will need another 16 years to correct this "fix", if we can.

edited to add: The Insurance Industry only cares about their profit margin and they keep the profits rolling in by delaying and denying claims. This bill was a continuation of those tactics. The only penalty once you win against them is that they have to provide the care they denied. For many that is too late and they know it.

[suffragette]

504. Your case is sadly illustrative of the real damage

caused to people by a system that values profit over lives.

Painful as it must be for you to post this, it's so important.

Too often, people treat this as if we're discussing abstract and disconnected technical points and "scoring" off each other.

Maybe that's easier than facing the reality of what it means to be denied health care and, in your case, even after you tried working within the system paying premiums, then following process to have a claim paid.

This system is sick and the people who created and perpetuate the wrongs such as the one done to your family are despicable.

For you and your son:

:hug:

[Radical Activist]

149. Instead, it will be interpreted through Sirota's heavy spin.

I wonder what Sirota gets out of writing these hit jobs with such speculative, substance-free exercises in apocalyptic mind reading. Does he want to prove he was right for backing Edwards in the primary?

[Name removed]

198. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

204. Ever heard those really transparent righties who call CSPAN pretending to be liberals?

"As a lifelong violent radical revolutionary liberal who personally spat on more than a thousand Vietnam veterans, I believe that George W. Bush is the greatest American in history."

[YOY]

206. ...that or this....

[Name removed]

244. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

317. And I'm wearing a Che t-shirt for extra emphasis!

LOL

[mzmolly]

343. Unless the righties are advocating for Obama

in some bizarre misguided strategy, I'm not sure I get the point you're making QC?

[mzmolly]

326. LOL

Ironically I also backed Edwards. But I realize I was very wrong. ;) :hi:

[theFrankFactor]

470. That DU name you gave yourself and the avatar... doesn't fool anyone.

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

220. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

262. this place has really gone to shit

especially in the past month.

[mzmolly]

321. When you have nothing to add but insult,

I take it you have nothing to add.

[Nite Owl]

214. Who did he hire

to represent us? That is really the question, there was no balance, they had no intention of doing what the people needed, it had to fit what the insurance companies wanted.

[mzmolly]

322. We're getting an expansion

in health care coverage. A universal plan that has never been enacted in this country, to spite decades of attempting to do so. I feel that's representation. If she sucks, I'll say so. But lets give her a shot at implementing the program before we assume she's oversees the "death panels" for cripe sakes.

[Name removed]

325. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

334. Oops! I just heard she's overseeing the death panels.

She's going to oversee the new "slavery" program after we've eliminated senior citizens who are too old to contribute to the new concentration camps.

[liberation]

346. Oooooppps.... I just heard you ran out of arguments to spin this one...

LOL

[mzmolly]

354. So supporting the Democratic President on a reasonable decision

here, is now "spin" that I have to defend? WTF.

[liberation]

411. it is funny because the post of yours I was replying to had nothing to do w your new red herring

So thanks for proving my point, I guess?

[Ignis]

451. No, supporting him on a reasonable decision is a great idea.

This is not one.

[Ignis]

370. Please support your assertion that HCR was a "universal plan."

Thanks.

[mzmolly]

409. Google

it. I'm out of this ridiculous "death panels are for realz" discussion.

[liberation]

413. PS. you are the one making the claim, the burden of proof is on you

It is not that the spin is just mediocre, but that the spinners are lazy at that.


Not impressed.

[Ignis]

416. What a load of crap. I've never said anything remotely like "death panels are for realz."

But frankly, I'm not surprised that you couldn't find any support for such a specious claim.

Words mean things. :hi:

[mzmolly]

419. When all else fails, cling to a debate about semantics.

I don't blame you.

[Ignis]

423. So you contend that words do not, in fact, mean things?

Well then, say whatever you like, I suppose. :shrug: Blue mixxrop gibbuls sometimes warffle broadly! :freak:

I find it amusing that those who are quick to wave the banner of "It's Just SEMANTICS!" often don't understand the meaning of the word itself, nor the distinction between that word and "diction."

If this were a dance or a dodge-ball class, on the other hand, I'd give you an A+. :thumbsup:

[liberation]

431. Strawmen and red herrings are not technically matters of "semantics"

I have noticed that in your attempts to spin this one in a positive light you've taken all manners of tangential excursions into fallacy land.

Enjoy the hike I guess...

[Nite Owl]

453. An expansion somewhat but not everyone is covered

millions are just left out and those that are able to 'purchase' the private insurance plans still have no guarantees that they won't face bankrupcy if they cannot pay. Most won't be able to afford the Platinum Plan and the Basic Plan covers only very basic stuff, all the deductibles are extremely high. So they will have plans they can't afford to use with out going into some serious debt.

I resent that death panel remark. Because others here see another side of the coin that doesn't make us Sarah Palin. That is what seems to be inferred by that sort of remark. Just short of being against DU rules.

[newspeak]

508. yeah, we're all happy with the universal plan

we are forced to buy for profit insurance, and since most of use now have shitty jobs-we'll probably be buying the cheapest with the highest deductable. Why don't we just donate the funds to the poor, starving insurance industry--that way we'll only have to make a twenty dollar donation or whatever we want without losing too much monthly income.

What my hubby can afford now, has a deductible and only covers up to a certain amount (a low amount). So, if either one of us gets really sick, we are totally screwed, but that's all we can afford.

[Ignis]

487. Still waiting for one iota of support for "universal plan."

:hi:

[liberation]

345. LOL... I love the smell of fresh demagoguery in the morning.

[Blue_In_AK]

73. Why does this keep happening?

How can anyone not think that this administration is selling us down the river? Is the administration so naive as to trust these industry shills -- or is it complicit? Either way, I don't like it.

I'm sorry if this offends some of you. I've been trying to give the president the benefit of the doubt, even though many of you know that I was not a strong supporter during the primary campaign. Despite my misgivings, I was glad he won the presidency, I was hopeful, I shed a few tears myself on inauguration day.

Now I just feel sad that my cynicism has been proven justified. The improvement from the last administration seems merely superficial, at best. This administration is not working for us, it is working for the corporations and the military-industrial complex, just as our government has for decades. Nothing has reallychanged. I would so much rather have been proven wrong. :(

I don't blame this all on President Obama, but I do think if he had shown signs of moving left instead of right immediately after his election, and if he had used his considerable national popularity to put pressure on Congress, he could have been much more successful in moving the country forward.

[ProgressIn2008]

82. K&R. This shit stinks. nt

[Blackhatjack]

83. The Question of 'Who Owns Who?' Has Now Been Answered. n/t

[Jefferson23]

88. Stop breaking my heart Obama. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

90. We told you so!

ACA is the largest transfer of wealth from the working class to the ruling class since Bush's tax cuts.

[hatrack]

92. Gosh, I'm just tingling with the Specialness of this Moment!

How about y'all?

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Better Believe It]

95. Of course. The health insurance industry and big Pharma wrote the "healthcare" legislation .

Now industry reps are being assigned the job of implementing the laws they wrote.

Is anyone still surprised?

[hulka38]

469. It's so straight forward and obvious.

People are still bending logic like a pretzel in order to not have to face the truth of what you just posted.

[slipslidingaway]

101. Baucus Thanks Wellpoint VP Liz Fowler for Writing Health Care Bill

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/29/baucus-thanks-wellpoint-vp-liz-fowler-for-writing-health-care-bill/#comment-105278

Not a surprise really that upon passage of the health care bill, Max Baucus would openly thank Liz Fowler, the former Wellpoint VP, for writing it:


...It’s right up there with Tom Carper’s insistence that the Senate had to respect the White House deal with PhRMA because after all they paid for it with $150 million in political advertising as “most telling moments of the health care debate.”

Nancy Pelosi says the foundations of the health care bill were written by the Heritage Foundation. Probably true, Heritage is awash in corporate money. And really, the plan is no different from the one that AHIP (then HIAA) wrote in 1992...


...The insurance industry has spent their money well, spreading it across both parties. They got what they paid for with this neoliberal health care bill. Ken Silverstein’s prescient 2006 article in Harpers on Obama’s early vetting by corporate interests still stands up. They sized up the situation accurately years ago.

Thanks indeed, Liz Fowler. The country really does owe you one."

[kenny blankenship]

102. Has the revolving door between insurance industry & govt had its official dedication ceremony yet?

With all the ribbon cutting and the big scissors and the giant novelty checks, or does that come later?

[avaistheone1]

155. +100

[jgraz]

157. I believe it was held on Jan 20th, 2009.

[myrna minx]

103. .

:-(

[ChromeFoundry]

105. Can't say I'm surprised n/t

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bryn]

108. Democratic Party, where have you gone?

:(

[Better Believe It]

221. Here?

[Bryn]

239. A very nice artwork!

That good ole' time is gone, isn't it?

Thank you for a lovely artwork.:)

[slipslidingaway]

116. They Won! Private insurance companies push for 'individual mandate'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6083122&mesg_id=6083122

"As momentum gains for reforms, insurers hope to turn it to their advantage by supporting a proposal that everyone buy coverage. It would be a boost for the industry, which has seen enrollment decline.


...But this time, it turns out, the health insurance industry has good reason to support at least some change: It needs it. Private health insurance faces a bleak future if the proposal they champion most vigorously -- a requirement that everyone buy medical coverage -- is not adopted.

...Insurers do not embrace all of the healthcare restructuring proposals. But they are fighting hard for a purchase requirement, sweetened with taxpayer-funded subsidies for customers who can't afford to buy it on their own, and enforced with fines.


...The industry's real trouble begins in 2011, when 79 million baby boomers begin turning 65. Health insurers stand to lose a huge slice of their commercially insured enrollment (estimated at 162 million to 172 million people) over the next two decades to Medicare, the government-funded health insurance program for seniors..."


For insurers, getting "run over" would be the adoption of a so-called single-payer plan, where the government pays all medical bills. Such a plan would wreak havoc on the private insurance market, and is widely viewed as politically unfeasible this year. So the best way for the industry to preserve the private insurance market -- and derail the campaign for a single-payer system -- may be to go along with more palatable proposals on the table now, said Jeffrey Miles, a healthcare analyst and president of the Miles Organization, a Los Angeles insurance brokerage firm..."

[ibegurpard]

118. shocking, huh?

[slipslidingaway]

131. Of course not, but I wish it was shocking. Private insurers stand to lose...

customers as the boomers move to Medicare, so we use savings from the Medicare program to bolster the revenue of private companies.

Then we have the "deficit reduction" committee looking at entitlement spending when the number of enrollees on Medicare will increase from 46 million to 79 million over the next 20 years.

That makes perfect sense to me.

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

123. Evidently, we all know how this is -- and Obama doesn't . . . ????

Not to mention the Cat Food Commission to destroy Social Security and Medicare???

[Lorien]

217. It's too fucking much

I'd say that I can't wait until 2012 gets here, but one can assume that we'll only have two shitty choices then as well, and both will be hellbent on taking all that we have and making sure that we can't afford any services of any kind when we need them. We need other options. We can do better than Fascist Feudalism.

[defendandprotect]

273. Agree -- we're being given leaders TPB want us to have .... no way to make progress!!

:)

[inna]

331. Kleptocratic Corporacracy.

Yep, we can do better. It's never been clearer that the current system is pro-corporate and anti-worker, and that the problem is systemic.

[Bluebear]

127. You can't blame Obama for this hire! He doesn't know everyone being hired!

:cry:
....

[jgraz]

134. Oh sweet Jeebuz. Liz Fucking Fowler?

Words fail me. :wow:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

251. What's your problem?

Maybe Billy Tauzin had prior commitments. :evilgrin:

[Ignis]

372. Oh, LOL.

Truth is almost stranger than fiction, in this case.

[lonestarnot]

135. Fucking A.

[ProSense]

136. A rebuttal to Sirota

Liz Fowler is the worst person in the world and why there is no PO

[jgraz]

156. No, that's just another worthless link you haven't bothered to read.

If you think it's a rebuttal, please do your fellow posters the courtesy of quoting the relevant paragraphs and relating them to Sirota's article.

[rpannier]

180. I read the link

It's a decent defense of Liz Fowler
It isn't written as a rebuttal to Mr Sirota
It's written as a rebuttal to people who are unhappy with her being selected

[asdjrocky]

231. Wow, a poorly written defense of Fowler by some hack at Daily Kos.

It's not even by a journalist, it's some member at Kos. Tell me, did you write it?

[Ignis]

488. I've heard over and over again how very little blog posts matter.

But surprisingly :wow:, they appear to carry a great deal of weight when they support certain arguments.

It's a puzzler, innit?

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

141. We need to pass the bill! We'll FIX IT LATER!

:rofl:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

143. As promised. The "fix" is in.

[havocmom]

144. don't know 'bout you, bear, but I am in a mood to shove that down some throats

We told them there would be no fixing it. But still they chanted.

There are no words for the rage I feel about this parade of corporate shills Obama has put in positions to do more and more damage to the people.

And the posters who said so many times: 'we'll fix it later'.... can go get fixed.

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Starry Messenger]

163. +1000

[QC]

208. You never really loved him.

:cry:

[racaulk]

269. *snort*

:rofl:

[walldude]

291. LMFAO..

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

See now don't you feel stupid for not trusting the Democratic Administration?

[Ignis]

378. Haven't you heard? We passed a "universal plan!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8749680#8753759

So you see, no need to fix it: It's universal! :crazy:

[Bluebear]

501. I feel so much better!

:bounce:

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

167. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[New Dawn]

169. Kick for truth.

[Name removed]

172. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gravel Democrat]

176. "What could that look like?"

De-centralization

Self Sufficiency, import only what we can't mine, grow or make here and only on favorable terms. Self sufficiency on every level, local, state and regional.

Split DC into regional centers of power, maybe along the time zones- Pacific, Central and Eastern. The District of Columbia would only exist to centralize national defense, administer border protection and issue (and protect the integrity of) currency.

This country was very successful at building itself for a long while without being forced to import steel for bridges (SF BAY) or shoes or food.

Centralization or De-Centralization.

A choice will be made, De-centralization will never be considered by those that tell us we are locked into some sort of new world order...

Which will prevail? Is being dependent on worldwide stability necessary?

[ProudDad]

329. I prefer the term "Relocalization"...

www.transitionus.org

Rebuild local economies. Rebuild the web of life!

Begin by buying local ONLY whenever you can...

Or better yet, barter or buy used or don't buy at all...

[Greyhound]

174. K&R and he takes another step down the road toward neo-feudalism.

[mtnester]

175. So, who is the stupid one in the administration who though this was a great idea?

And I am not, in the least at this point, surprised at all any more.

[WinkyDink]

200. Let's see; I think I noticed a buck stopping somewhere.......

[Karmadillo]

380. Mel Gibson's desk? Lindsay Lohan's?

nt

[cadaverdog]

437. the very same one who snubbed Howard Dean when making

appointments to the new administration.
Same one who refused to outlaw land mines.
Who signed legislation to carry weapons in national parks.
Who refused to fire Bush appointments to the DOJ.
Who continues the prosecution of don siegelman.
Who campaigned on the public option, and refused to support it as president.
Who refuses to move forward on DADT.
Who reneged on his promise to close Guantanamo.
Who increased spending and forces in Afghanistan.

These are just off the top of my head. Feel free to add to the list.

Hope+Change=

[Birthmark]

177. Ya gotta love it!

Well, really, you don't. But it's not like it matters how we feel. That has been made obvious to us. This move just reiterates that.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

179. That's one disturbing way to start the day.

Old McDonald: Listen up you hens. I know that you're concerned about your health and well being. Therefore, I've hired a specialist that knows all about hen safety and health and how to get around any loopholes in the security system.

So without further ado, I'd like you to meet Liz Fox. She'll take real good care of you because she assured me that she really likes chickens!

[QC]

215. Excellent. n/t

[Altoid_Cyclist]

274. Thank you!

Early morning anger seems to boost my snark potential.

[democrank]

183. Stop complaining.

You all know that corporations are people and Liz Fowler is a people person.

[ProudDad]

330. ...

:rofl:

[Ignis]

452. Well played.

:thumbsup:

[Hannah Bell]

185. kr

[JHB]

186. She hasn't even started yet! You expect her to fix everything before she even starts!?

:sarcasm:

It's deja vu all over again.

[ProudDad]

337. You need a little history lesson...

The House passed a bill that at least HAD a "public option" -- a foot in the door to a viable, comprehensive system of Health Care Financing.

The Senate Health Committee (Kennedy's committee) passed out a bill that at least HAD a "public option"...

Baucus' execrable committee, with this industry shill supervising the staff, blocked EVERY attempt at even discussing Universal, Comprehensive Health Care Coverage (and even FUCKING ARRESTED anyone who tried to broach the subject) and passed out a piece of shit "Health Insurance Corporation and Big PhRMA Stimulus Bill of 2009"...a bill that limited the scope of ANY health care bill to a set of tiny band-aids to be applied to the SUCKING CHEST WOUND that is the USAmerican Sick Care System!

And you expect us to be HAPPY about it???

As for Obama, he's so fucking tone deaf he couldn't see that this appointment would be OUTRAGEOUS!!!

But, it's further proof that he sucks up to his corporate masters -- that's his main job...

[kath]

379. + a brazillion, ProudDad.

[JHB]

401. Thus the use of the "sarcasm" tag in my post...

I'm sure you recall the feelings when the cabinet was filling up with DLCers. And when financial posts were filled with people tied to Goldman Sachs. And the admonishments to those who voiced those feelings.

As I said, deja vu all over again.

Although, upon rereading my post above, I can see how it could have been read the other way. Sometimes brevity isn't as efficient as it seems in the moment. My apologies for the confusion.

[ProudDad]

498. I understand...having done the same a few times...

:hi:

I thought you might have meant it that way. :)

But I took the opportunity to reintroduce some pesky facts for those who can still apologize for yet another at best stupid at worst pandering appointment...

[xchrom]

191. the reason people are angry -- i'm angry -- isn't that she will or won't do a good job --

it's that it is another corporate insider running the show.

and this time one who got an extraordinary say so on the final bill.

and one who probabaly supported this marriage between corporate america and the government through the individual mandate.

it's just fucking wrong.

[Vinca]

192. Oh, great. Maybe he can find the president of the DDT company

to head the EPA and someone from the RingDing company to set nutritional standards. Add another layer to my disgust at this nonreform bill.

[bvar22]

353. He already has.

Obama appointed Tom Vilsack to head up the Dept. of Agriculture.

Google "Vilsack ties to Monsanto"

[dgibby]

410. Not to mention Salazar, Geithner, etc, etc. n/t

[YOY]

195. Like hiring the Church of Mormon to review DADT "Research"

n/t

[asdjrocky]

254. Or Cheech and Chong to manage a cannabis collective.

[YOY]

265. Now that one is hypocrisy I could actually get behind!

n.t.

[walldude]

293. Nah they'd smoke all the dope...

Be nice if there were some for me. :)

[YOY]

294. They'd be happy to share. They're not the types to do otherwise!

n.t.

[WinkyDink]

199. Kinda makes that "Hopey-changey" sarcasm not so easy to mock.

[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MannyGoldstein]

209. Welcome to DU... but a few points

While your basic sentiments are shared by many here, a few things that will improve the reception you get:

1. Barack, not Barry.
2. Many of us feel that the current crop of elected Democratic don't represent traditional Democratic values. However, we do feel that we can work within the Democratic Party to improve it, rather than going third party.

[Name removed]

340. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[inna]

461. We're not supposed to talk about it. nt

[YOY]

212. So you don't believe in voting democratic even if and when we return the party to the original value...

One might ask exactly, "what you are doing here then?"

[ProudDad]

342. "What are you doing here then?"

For the Purity Police:

"Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates."

So if your purpose is to mindlessly shill for ANY Democrat no matter what their principles and values (or lack of same), YOU'RE in the wrong place...

[YOY]

418. I'm not one of them.

You definitely got the wrong cat.

[ProudDad]

499. Probably

:hi:

You know, it's just too easy to be snarky here...

[Nite Owl]

219. Stop with the 'Barry"

stuff. It is insulting to the institution of the Presidency no matter how you feel about who is there. He was duly elected.
Why not vote locally within the party? We need to change from the bottom up. Pick and choose who you will help but walking away does nothing.

[Name removed]

207. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lorien]

222. No, they simply expect all of us to shift to the hard Right in order

to call ourselves "New Democrats". Not. Gonna. Happen.

[Lorien]

223. No, they simply expect all of us to shift to the hard Right in order

to call ourselves "New Democrats". Not. Gonna. Happen.

[newportdadde]

211. Would the last person out turn off the lights?

Unbelievable.

[YOY]

247. Oh I'm sure some will still be in there...furiously pleasing themselves in the dark.

n.t.

[liberation]

352. Just don't eat any cookies if they offer,

the frosting is not vanilla... no matter how much they try to convince you of the contrary. And they will, given their track record of spin.

LOL

[Ignis]

376. ...And those are NOT raisins. Trust me.

:(

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

260. Actually, it's very believable. nt

[unapatriciated]

216. K&R

I pointed out from the beginning, that this is worse than the Insurance reforms laws in CA from the early 90's.
Now the Industry have guaranteed no penalties will ever be added to the bill much less enforced. You will also see a slow death of any decent plan through your employer.
Kaiser and Nixon would be proud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QkgUkM0o6Q

[inna]

403. "You will also see a slow death of any decent plan through your employer."

Oh, absolutely. This is something that most people are still unaware of, and this needs to be understood.

Switching the financial burden directly to "the little people" is one of the main goals of HCD (Health Care Deform).

[QC]

218. I guess nobody at Goldman Sachs wanted the job. n/t

[conspirator]

225. +1 n/t

[Ignis]

489. They were too busy lighting cigars with Benjamins.

[QC]

491. The Goldman Sachs boys have good reason to celebrate today. n/t

[Name removed]

226. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zipplewrath]

229. Does the senate have to confirm her?

I realize, being one of their old staffers, she's probably a shoe in. But I do wonder if I should bother writing my Senators.

[AngryOldDem]

235. Wellpoint.

Just wow.

That is the company whose current CEO got hammered before Congress for making massive personal profits while people with Wellpoint coverage got shit.

Just more change I can believe in.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

279. How about Bayh"s connections to Wellpoint?

http://pnhp.org/blog/2010/06/30/sen-evan-bayhs-fortunes-tied-to-wellpoint/

1/3 of his net wealth in Wellpoint stock? His wife paid 2 mil over six years to be on the Board of Directors?

Isn't that enough of a massive conflict of interest to make one question any stance he had during the HCR debate?

For some reason I thought that politicians had to put their stocks in blind trusts if they voted on policies that affected them personally. Is this not the case.

Sorry for the sidetrack here. It's just when you say "Wellpoint" I automatically start thinking about Bayh.

[AngryOldDem]

306. No, no sidetrack. Not at all. I had just forgotten that connection.

Bayh's wife has made a SHITLOAD of money lobbying for them, which probably factored into Evan's backing out of another election.

[maryf]

242. K&R

Thanks for posting this...

[BuelahWitch]

245. We'd be better off with Dr. Kevorkian n/t

[obxhead]

385. At least he knew something about compassion. nt

[Romulox]

248. "We've excluded lobbyists from policymaking jobs."

-B. Obama

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

261. but not the people who worked directly for the corps........

[griffi94]

278. put that in the same file with

'any plan i support will have to include a strong public option"

[laughingliberal]

257. Sigh. What's sad is these stories are no longer a surprise. nt

[meow mix]

263. luckily i took the stickers off my car

starting to wonder if i should put an apology sticker on there. "sorry, should have supported clinton at least she was partially honest"

[ProudDad]

344. Clinton would have done the same (n/t)

[liberation]

349. Dude, she lost get over it.

Clinton is, was, and probably would be as much of a corporate tool as Obama is.

In fact, at least Obama was not the president of his alma mater's College Republican chapter, he did not campaign for Goldwater, or sat in the board of WallMart as that "partially honest" lady of yours did.

[meow mix]

357. i as the obama supporter, came close to physical fights with dad (the clinton supporter)

on more nights than i care to remember.. one of those familys.

trust me im waaaaay over it and was just musing in retrospect.
and yes i know she would have been worse but that was kind of the point. lol

[BlueCheese]

389. What does Hillary have to do with this?

[liberation]

417. Sorry, I completely missed the sarcasm from your previous post

Apologies, it is hard to get the humor sometimes from a written piece ;-)

[Hamlette]

270. former prosecutors made the best judges

because they knew cops lied

public defenders made the worst judges because they knew defendants lied

just saying

[liberation]

348. The funny thing about your funny is that you can invert your conclusion and still works...

just saying ;-)

[Hamlette]

477. huh? I wasn't making a funny, I was making an observation after 34 years as a lawyer.

and I don't get what the inverse would be. That judges make the worse prosecutors because they know cops lie?

Or is the inverse "the best way to rob a bank is to own one?"

As you can see, I'm lost here.

[Spheric]

277. Disgusting. K&R /nt

[hayu_lol]

285. Well, maybe we can save a few bucks...

by putting Liz Fowler and Arnie Duncan in the same office. Neither has much to do except destroy.

[Enrique]

280. just wait for Obama's big speech!

you'll see, he's gonna fight for the public option!!!!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

290. Another kick to the ol' political nutsack....

from O. :(

They are in danger of falling off at this point. One more kick and it's all over for me...

[colsohlibgal]

292. Disheartening - But Not Surprising.

It wasn't hard to see which way the wind was going to blow very early on in this administration. It was clear that President Obama was going to go about things very differently, and not in a good way, from candidate Obama. Progressive populists are not going to appoint insider sloths like Geithner, Summers, and Emmanual to their inner circle. They aren't going to really reform health care by making a wolf in sheep's clothing tool like Baucus a big player in passing that "reform".

Now this. Wow, totally brazen and in our face.

The sad thing is that the apologists will keep apologizing for all this.

[inna]

368. You know, this "totally brazen and in our face" factor is quite disturbing, actually.

It's as if they are not even bothering to hide it anymore.

It's like saying "f*ck you" in our face when 3 million long-term unemployed lost their unemployment benefits.

I think there is a reasonable chance (let's say, 51%) that Bush tax cuts for the rich will be extended and that bansters will get another massive bailout.

The rich have never had it better, and the working people haven't had it quite as bad since the Great Depression.

And it's going to get worse.

[Spheric]

387. They have begun taking down the scenery

as Frank Zappa predicted they would. We are obviously in the end game.

[liberation]

430. end game?

this is same as it ever was.

This country was made by rich people for rich people. We love to have a romatic idea of what this country was, even though the historical pattern points towards the fact that this is not an exceptional time but rather the norm.

[Spheric]

445. The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion.

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater." - Frank Zappa

[valerief]

296. WTF? Just grind us up now and make us Soylent Green. nt

[Name removed]

307. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudDad]

323. Change...?

Shit :puke:

[liberation]

332. Ha... ha... ha! ha,,hahahah haaaahhahahah,,,, ha... hahahaha!

This is a joke, right? Please tell it is so.

[SlingBlade]

336. Imagine That !

Obama goes to the Corporate Well (Point) Yet once again.

Why I'm I not surprised ?

K & R !

[inna]

355. Predictable and shouldn't be surprising... but still mind-bogglingly disgusting.

Goddamn Kleptocratic Corporacracy.

Are people ever going to wake up?

[Karmadillo]

381. They think we're stupid.

And, to be honest, they may be on to something.

[4_TN_TITANS]

382. After much deliberation....

fox reluctantly agrees to guard hen house.

[another saigon]

396. Who could have predicted?

emanuel, geithner, rueben, sommers and now fowler to name a few. The corporate assault on what is left of the middle class continues.

:(

[Name removed]

405. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spanone]

415. maybe he should have hired a farmer?

[mzmolly]

422. Apparently so.

:crazy: :hi:

Peace and out.

[Lorien]

476. Next up: Mafia kingpin as Chief of Police!

They know all about crime, eh? :eyes:

[mzmolly]

478. Right.

A totally apt comparison. :eyes:

[Techn0Girl]

427. This is why I will not be voting next November

'nuff said

[Cherchez la Femme]

433. & then there's this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8754808
:cry:

[pleah]

438. When will the last nail be driven in our coffins? n/t

[Name removed]

439. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asdjrocky]

443. I can only say I hear you. nt

[JTFrog]

512. JFC on a stick.

[Triana]

444. Too bad Obama cannot be made to EXPLAIN some of these

appointments of his, given the blatant facts about them. Jeeeze.

[smiley]

450. it's official...

Obama has finally lost my vote in 2012.

[Orsino]

458. A door that revolves that rapidly...

...ought to be a source of alternative energy, rather than a means of implementing any sort of health care reform.

[MissDeeds]

463. This is outrageous

Unfortunately, it's not surprising. Obama has been one disappointment after another. He's begging to be a one term president, unless of course he's relying on votes from the right.

[rpannier]

464. A Little Perspective from Crooks and Liars

Fowler was not a registered lobbyist, nor was she acting as a lobbyist in her two years with Wellpoint. In fact, if you look over Fowler's entire career, she is a career public servant. One might even argue that private industry and Ms. Fowler were not a great "fit", as noted here:

As far as I have been able to tell, she has spent most of her career in public service. She spent her early years in at Hogan & Hartson, worked for Senator Pat Moynihan, Rep. Pete Stark and Senator Max Baucus, and then later rejoined Baucus and the Senate Finance Committee in 2008.

So what exactly is the problem? She's not a lobbyist; most of her career has been spent in public service; and she was the head of a 20-person team that drafted the Senate Finance Committee version of the reform bill.

snip

It's worth noting that the Senate Finance Reform committee version was certainly included in the Senate version of what ultimately became the Affordable Care Act, but so too were provisions from the Senate HELP Committee's version. Harry Reid, as you might recall, combined pieces of both to make the Senate bill, and that version included a watered-down, ineffective public option which was ultimately stripped away from the final version because Joe Lieberman wanted to punish liberals more than he wanted to see people have access to health care.

Liz Fowler didn't take out the public option. She didn't kill it. And she didn't lobby against it. Is it possible that she simply has a different policy opinion from others? Or that she actually doesn't have a different opinion but made a calculation about what was possible with this Senate Finance Committee?

snip

Seems like a natural choice to me. Don't forget she also worked for Pete Stark (an ardent single payer advocate). Why does the Wellpoint 2 years carry more weight than the Stark/Moynihan? Because it fits the narrative or because there's evidence of malfeasance? If there's evidence, where is it? A difference of opinion over policy does not mean corruption is afoot.

link:
http://crooksandliars.com/

[Yavin4]

473. What?! You're Injecting Facts When There's A Hissy Fit Going On?

A good ole fashioned liberal hissy fit wherein everyone walks away from Obama because he appointed someone who once worked at Wellpoint but spent most of her career in public service?

Geesh Louise. Some liberals are worse than the teabaggers.

[asdjrocky]

480. Hissy fit?

Typical.

[Bluebear]

502. +

[rpannier]

484. I'm sure we'll all here how John Amato is really a DLC shill

and an Obama apologist
So that's why he wrote this

[jgraz]

485. No, he's injecting an anonymous post on a blog site

You might want to learn the difference. But please, don't let reality get in the way of your hissy fit.

[Ignis]

490. Your concerns = Real Problems. Our concerns = Hissy Fit.

Got it. :hi:

[Bluebear]

503. A sudden outburst of temper, often used to describe female anger at something trivial.

Originally regional from American South. Thought to originate from contraction of "hysterical fit."

She threw a hissy fit when she found out the last pair of shoes had been sold.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hissy+fit

Very respectful.

[Yavin4]

506. If the Shoe Fits

Well...

[Bluebear]

511. So you're mysoginist on top of all of your other attributes.

[redqueen]

509. deleted

[alarimer]

465. Is there anyone in this administration who is not a corporate stooge?

Maybe Hilda Solis.

I wish I could say I was disappointed but I have come to expect this shit from Obama.

He is probably the biggest liar of all the politicians I have ever voted for. He has flip-flopped more than anyone from the campaign to the Presidency on just about every single topic.

I will not be voting for Obama in 2012, that's for sure.

I am thinking too many other things that will likely get me banned from here but I guess I no longer care.

[howaboutme]

467. Two Political Parties and

both could write a book dedicated to leaders of third world nations, and examples of how the USA leaders screw the people and corrupt a nation.

When I read the MSM propaganda claiming that we fight wars to defend our freedoms, when in reality we fight to make these half baked nations just like us, it makes me want to puke.

Our nation is run for the benefit of corporations, politicians, lobbyist cronies (from other nations), and billionaires that have sucked our country dry.

[AllyCat]

468. Like I said about *, the only thing you need to have for a presidential appointment

is a conflict of interest. I'm really beginning to think nothing has changed. What I don't get is why are the right wing nutjobs fighting Obama so hard? He's doing almost everything they would want.

[Lorien]

475. Just goes to show that most people really don't pay attention to the things that actually HAPPEN in

politics, they just buy talking points and advertising. The Right Wing is suddenly opposed to everything they approved of when Bush did it for eight horrible years, and some Obama fans are suddenly in support of everything they opposed when Bush did it for eight years-just because the letter behind the name changes. Hypocrites all!

[nutshell2002]

474. Checkmate!

[Moochy]

494. ugh

bipartisan lobbyists! what is more New Democrat than that?

[blindpig]

510. kick

Well, I'm sure she's comfortable with it and knows it inside out.

Fuckin' perfect.