How do you fight stupidity? Really.

[erodriguez]

Dear DU'ers,

I recently encountered a person on Facebook that was bad-mouthing the $30B used for unemployment benefits and the unemployed.

Now, I know I should not have got into it with the guy, but when I hear just plain falsehoods I have a tendency of speaking up.


Here is the exchange:

Other Guy: The Germans never questioned Hitler why they were ordered to kill jews,the Russians never questioned Stalin why they marched to their death in battle,the Japanese never questioned why they continued to fight during WW2 even though it was an obvious losing battle,and Americans don't question Obama why giving 30 billion dollars away to pay someone to do nothing rather then create them a job makes sense.

Me: It is my sincere hope that you never are laid off and have to endure the brutal reality of joblessness.

The fact is for every 1 job available in this faltering economy, there are at least 5 job seekers.

The $30b for extending unemployment benefits are not only humane, but also helps the economy get back on track.

Please read:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/07/the_scariest_jobs_graph_youve.html

http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2010/07/stimulus_vs_tax.html

Other Guy: lol sorry for my sarcasm then because you are in fact proving the point my friend by believing the garbage the democrats are feeding you almost word for word. I do agree that its a tragedy to all those who have lost their jobs and I hope to never have to endure it myself. Howerever the $30 billion for unemployment is a waste much as the stimulus has been a waste. Just use some logic and think outside of Obama's BS change campaign and it makes sense really. Does it make more sense to spend $30 billion to create a massive project and tons of jobs to benefit the US or does it make more sense to pay out $30 billion to a group where believe it or not my friend doesnt want a job,to do nothing?


So I basically gave up there. I figured I did not have the energy to waste at the time to educate him. Nor, did I think I would persuade him to recognize that facts are facts.

However, the truth is that there are a lot of people in this country that are like this guy. They do not refuse to recognize the facts.

How do you get them to understand?

[elleng]

1. Maybe you don't get them to understand, but you did a good job, as good as possible.

Thanks

[erodriguez]

3. I guess so. However...

We need people to get it, or else change for the better does not happen.

Are there other tips and techniques you use?

Disclaimer: I am a former school teacher and whenever I encountered a student that did not get it I asked my colleagues' advice.
I figure there is always another angle.

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Oddly, I find something in his response that I agree with.

I think a massive jobs program, properly targeted to renew our infrastructure, would be wonderful and would be one of the strongest things we could do to prepare ourselves for the new century.

That said, we also obviously (to me, anyway) have to provide jobless benefits, especially in times like these. Hell, if the economy stays in the hole for a decade, we will still need to keep those benefits going.

[erodriguez]

5. I agree with a jobs program as well

However, I was arguing that UE benefits are needed and useful.

[Ruby the Liberal]

4. Velocity

I spend $1 at a store.

Store pays its employee.

Employee spends $1 at another store.

Store2 pays its employee.

Employee2 spends $1 at Store3.

Store3 pays its employee...

It isn't rocket science, yet the RW doesn't "get it".

[erodriguez]

7. I like that one.

[Ruby the Liberal]

14. $1 total, but bills are paid multiple times.

It isn't about how much $ is in circulation, it is about how many ties each $1 changes hands - buying goods and absolving debt.

The worst thing that can happen in our modern society if for people to horde cash. Thats what leads to deflation.

With velocity,each time the $1 changes hands, services/goods are purchased, someone gets paid for their goods/service and they purchase from someone else, giving that person $1 to purchase from yet another party.

That is what keeps the economy going (and why unemployment insurance is CRITICAL to the mix in times like we are facing now).

[AnArmyVeteran]

15. Stimulus from tax cuts = 1.03, Stimulus from unemployment compensation = 1.60

Conservatives are too damned stupid and ignorant to understand facts. They get all of their information from right wing radio and Faux. They are willfully ignorant because of they are mired in hatred, racism, fear and rage.

[Ruby the Liberal]

Yep, yep, yep.

And food stamps in this economy, have an even greater multiplier than unemployment.

[Synicus Maximus]

27. actually you spend $1 at a store . The store pays the employee

$.90 (overhead, taxes etc.) The employee spends $1 at another store (100+10% of income) and employee 2 receives $.90 of that dollar. It ain't a zero sum game.

[gateley]

6. He could have had an okay argument - really believed it - until he got to the

part about people not wanting a job, to do nothing. That tells me HE'S listening to the RW BS and believing it.

I don't think you can get someone like that to understand - his mind is made up.

In so many areas of life NONE of us understands what "it's" like until it happens to us. Just ask any abused wife or drug addict. Sometimes that's the only lesson some can learn.

[erodriguez]

12. That statement really set me off. I definitely tend to agree... yet

There are so many people out there that will never walk in "X" shoes.

Ignorance should not be an excuse to give up on persuading someone.

[gateley]

17. Good point. Then I really don't know how to do it. Obviously appealing to

their better part wouldn't work or they would be so unfeeling and callous to begin with. Maybe numbers, charts, graphs? I don't know. When I've tried and just continually been met with that unmoving wall of stupidity it just makes me feel so sad, so I don't often try any more. Sigh.

[givemebackmycountry]

8. delete

[stray cat]

9. by making sure you have your own facts right and don't add to the stupid masses

[LaydeeBug]

10. Being mean is the ONLY thing that works...

Look, I'll jut put it to you straight. That "other guy" wants to be told to assume the position, and don't argue with Mistress Princess.

When you tell these morons they aren't worth anything, they like it. I know it's pathetic, but it's true. Right now, he is playing superior with you.

Throw in his face that the American worker B UILT THIS FUCKING COUNTRY from the ground up, and the American worker is a FAR greater contributor to our Armed Forces, and just who the hell is he calling lazy with a five to one ration, and he will dial it down. Promise.

Because he is a fucktard. Plain and simple.

[erodriguez]

16. Hehe I like your attitude. I really wanted to tell the guy off but

he is a co-worker of a friend and I was arguing on her FB page.

I didn't want to give her any trouble.

[LaydeeBug]

23. Again, it's no trouble when she is smearing little old ladies with a 'can of cat food for dinner'

platform. Harry Truman was right: sometimes, you just have to tell the truth about those bastards.

[AnArmyVeteran]

11. If that conservative dunce had a small business he would like customers

If that idiotic conservative had a small business but was in an area where a huge number of people were unemployed his business would be severely affected. He might have to fire his workers or even go out of business. If the unemployed are getting compensation they will be able to buy goods at his business and keep it afloat and also keep the business's workers on the job.

But the above illustration is beyond the comprehension of conservatives. They are incapable of reason or thinking of anything deeper than one level, so that's why they only regurgitate buzzwords and simple phrases they are given by their right wing radio gods and Faux Noise.

Unlike what you said, I hope 'the other guy' does lose his job and is forced to go dumpster diving to survive. I know he won't take any assistance from the government and he would rather have his children die of starvation than feed them with food stamps. Conservatives are soulless idiots, void of any compassion, empathy, reasoning ability or even the ability to think at all.

As Grayson said, "May god have mercy on their souls" (if they have one)

[erodriguez]

20. He considers himself a "revolutionary" according to fb

He says "But never the less I don't like the republicans much either so don't get me wrong...just try not to think outside of the democratic propaganda"

[AnArmyVeteran]

22. Conservatives like to distance themselves from parties, when they always vote republican

I know one guy who insists he is a libertarian. He's a beckaholic and is also a religious fanatic. But he's also a hypocrite. He says all money should be earned and always goes on and on about personal responsibility, and said anyone who shows up at an emergency room wearing jewelry shouldn't be treated because if they had money for a necklace or a watch they should have used it for insurance.

A few months ago he posted on Facebook saying he was wanting to buy a $500 gun and get a concealed carry permit. But he didn't even have health insurance for his family with three little children. He is a total hypocrite, just like all the rest of the conservatives and libertarians.

[Devil_Fish]

13. What is truly insane is how quickly he will cash his EED should he ever get laid off. N/T

[applegrove]

18. That 30 Billion you gived to the unemployed goes directly back

into the economy and creates jobs because the unemployed need every penny to pay bills, food, lodging, gas, etc so that 30billion goes directly into the economy. If you were to give 30 Billion to the rich through tax cuts it would just go into savings and would not make its way into the economy as quickly or as effectively. The savings just end up in the banks which are not lending these days.

[Gold Metal Flake]

19. For a Republican, there is no downside to lying.

All that matters is having the last word. That is a "win" for a puke. Lying is the most common tactic used to achieve that goal.

Republicans lie. Republicans always lie. Republicans never stop lying.

He's not stupid. He's a liar.

[Initech]

21. I owned some teabaggers on the concept of big government the other day

Basically I pointed out that national security and universal health care were all part of the same thing and it shut them up. Hypocrisy is a powerful tool.

[GoCubsGo]

24. Since he's so concerned about people not questioning their leaders,

did you ask him whether or not he bothered questioning the ones who fed him his BS talking points?

[MadMaddie]

25. So another response would be

If he is employed, ask him if he knows he pays into the Unemployed Benefits program? I am guessing he doesn't....

So if he does become unemployed he will have that fall back resource to survive.

Now ask him what about the folks who have worked 20-30 years paying into the system and never needed to collect on it? Whose money are they getting paid with? Well it's their money.

So it's not a handout and it never has been.

Also suggest to him to go the unemployment office to see with his own eyes who is in line. It's not just minorities, it's every walk of life in America?

Also, ask him to go volunteer at the homeless shelters to see who is there now?

Ask him why are the suburban neighborhoods standing with empty homes in them? Someone must have lived there, where did they go?

Finally, ask him to look at your town's unemployment rate? If there are plenty of jobs then why is the unemployment rate so high.

He is a hater of Obama that is clear but ask him does he really truely hate his neighbors, family and friends?

[erodriguez]

26. Thanks Good points all