Wikileaks, Can someone name me one new thing we found out from them?

[jah the baptist]

other than the names of people who were helping our side?

The pentagon papers revealed that Johnson planned to go into Vietnam before the Gulf of Tonkin events.

Is there anything remotely similar here?

or did, as i suspect, some kid piss his and others lives away for nothing?

[librechik]

1. all of that is true (which makes a farce of claims the leaked docs are dangerous)

However, since the media had a sub rosa pact to never discuss any of the stuff (they already knew) it was news to most readers. And in any sense, Manning has thrown his life away for nothing.

I can only hope his judges realize there was nothing in the cache which would compromise anyone's safety and dismiss the case.

[jah the baptist]

4. what was news to most readers? seriously what was new? other the names of informants

which indeed would put them in danger

[librechik]

17. Seriously, I think it was news to most people that our tax dollars are going to the Taliban

through Pakistan, our "friend" Do you believe that was common knowledge? Because the electorate doesn't act like they know.

[bemildred]

19. And that Taliban had heat-seekers. nt

[jah the baptist]

26. and that is comparable to LBJ and the Gulf of Tonkin? nt

[bemildred]

32. What a stupid comment.

You asked for something new.

I actually expected that Taliban would have heatseekers, but I've not seen it discussed anywhere, so it was new to see it admitted, or outed, or whatever you want to call it.

[jah the baptist]

33. that was my original question in the op

i specifically asked what was remotely similar to that.

[bemildred]

36. Well, I produced something new, which you also asked for.

But I think your question was rhetorical anyway, nothing that anybody produces is going to move your opinion.

[jah the baptist]

40. from the op

The pentagon papers revealed that Johnson planned to go into Vietnam before the Gulf of Tonkin events.

Is there anything remotely similar here?


That was my specific question


your answer was that the taliban had heat seakers

i then asked if you really thought the two were comparable

then you made it clear that you hadnt even read the op before responding

[bemildred]

43. Like I said, your mind is made up.

I assume you are not really trying to push the idea that Afghanistan and Vietnam are similar?

[Subdivisions]

2. I don't know. Did you read all 92,000 documents? n/t

[Ignis]

35. Work? Pshaw, that's what *other* people are for!

;)

[Oregone]

3. That even Democratic Administrations will claim benign leaks endanger soldiers in the field

Thats a golden talking point to hide discussion of any failing war behind

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. where to start?

Between "embeds" and a propaganda war being conducted by the DOD against America since the invasion of Afghanistan, there has been almost no coverage of what is really happening in that country. We are learning of war crimes, incursions into Pakistan, we have confirmation that Pakistan intel is helping the Taliban, we learn of real numbers of deaths and injured.

For the first time since we invaded, this war and occupation are making the headlines and front pages. All of this is good and important.

May I ask something without being insulting? Are you a troll? Do the occupations of two middle east countries, whose people do not want us there, ever bother you? Are you ever pissed at our MSM for ignoring these wars?

[AlabamaLibrul]

6. edit: see post 13

[Enrique]

7. I get all I need to know from Pentagon briefings

:patriot:

[Donnachaidh]

8. try reading the material. n/t

[jah the baptist]

14. so you have nothing

that is your answer?

read 90 thousand documents

since your answer implies you have

give me just one thing

[jah the baptist]

9. OK so far 5 responses and nobody can name a damn thing. nt

[Oregone]

11. Was that a canned reply to your own thread?

[Subdivisions]

12. I asked a question it doesn't bother to answer. n/t

[AlabamaLibrul]

13. Fine, I'll feed you one.

I notice most of the reports on "demonstrations", in fact, the vast majority of them, describe peaceful protests or funeral processions which are labeled "0 INJ/DAM" as opposed to the ubiquitous file footage of crazed brown people running through the streets, burning shit and firing guns into the air screaming "ALLAHU AKBAR!" in shrill tones.

[jah the baptist]

15. link? nt

[AlabamaLibrul]

16. wardiary.wikileaks.org. Where else?

Go to "Browse by Category", and click demonstrations. You know, read through them.

[old mark]

10. Only that everything most of us already suspected and believed is absolutely

correct.

It's something positive, and it's always great to see a real act of defiance like this...it is really necessary from time to time.


mark

[asdjrocky]

18. Nothing to see here, just move along.

[sabrina 1]

20. So far, and I have only read a very tiny fraction of what they reveal

we have verification of what many Afghan civilians have been screaming about, that NATO forces have been killing thousands of innocent civilians.

We learned, or it was verified, that Pakistan was never an ally (Clinton found that out when they refused to cooperate with him in sending in special forces to get Osama Bin Laden).

As for the sudden concern for those Afghans we have used? This is the first time that this government has ever expressed any concern about the citizens of either Iraq or Afghanistan. We have killed and maimed and tortured approx 1.5 million people. NOW, they are claiming they care about those people.

Has everyone forgotten the general attitude towards those people when asked about the deaths of civilians, how many we were killing?

'We Don't Do Body Counts'! 'Treat The Iraqis Like Dogs'! etc. etc. And whenver the Karzai government complained about civilian deaths, the drone attacks, the bombings, or the people went out and demonstrated in the tens of thousands against the killings, they were ignored, and the U.S. claimed they were exaggerating. For those trying to tell the truth, these documents are a vindication and hopefully a warning that lies will be uncovered, sooner or later.

This is just an excuse to trash the exposure of the the lies we have been told.

And if it ends these travesties, far more lives will be saved than if they did not have to worry about lying to them American people.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leveymg]

22. Maybe, this got released because the brass wanted it? You know, like the Abu Ghraib photos?

For all we know, Wikileaks has been nothing more than an electronic version of the "Litfass Columns", poles that the Prussian Secret Police put up in Berlin during the reign of Bismarck to sniff out political dissidents. When revolutionaries, socialists and anarchists posted their forbidden writings, plainclothes detectives followed them. Also GOOGLE "The Trust" for the Soviet version.

Nothing really changes.

[Warpy]

23. While some kid might have pissed his life away temporarily

to get these papers to Wikileaks, there is no "smoking gun" that puts anyone else in danger. What these papers did is confirm what a lot of us strongly suspected and powerful men didn't want to admit.

This stuff is deeply embarrassing to those powerful men, but they will likely recover quickly as they did when Ellsberg released the Pentagon Papers.

Don't forget that the Afghans already know this stuff. They're living it every day. It's just high time Americans found this stuff out and for that, whoever leaked this stuff deserves our gratitude.

The powerful men who are being embarrassed will, of course, try to get him locked up.

[Subdivisions]

24. Oh, aren't you cute. Cute like a rabbit scurrying away. n/t

[jah the baptist]

27. im going to cry nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. We learned that kids are "pissing their lives away" in a lost war fought for PR.

[jah the baptist]

28. and that is the big revelation? again, what is new? nothing nt

[AlabamaLibrul]

31. Selectively ignoring posts. (eom)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. We also learned that the administration fears embarrassment and goes after whistle blowers.

And, that instead of refuting or defending what wikileaks released, they fall back on the same non-argument that LBJ and Nixon did in that other lost war. "It endangers the troops."

[rug]

29. "our side"? Does your side support illegal invasions, torture and propaganda?

[jah the baptist]

30. the united states of america is my side yours? nt

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

37. Jah wants his fucking name back, dude

I can feel my IQ drop every time I read another of your posts.

[jah the baptist]

45. sorry i feel bad about that since there probably wasnt much of one to start with nt

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

46. Much of what? Your ability to communicate in an intelligible fashion?

Right now I'm not convinced you are capable of crafting a complete sentence.

[jah the baptist]

49. short term memory problems?

your claim that your iq is dropping

and indeed it appears to be

eddited to say:

THAT was fucking funny!

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

50. Riiiiight

Okeydokey, you Brave Internet Warrior. You carry on! :eyes:

[asdjrocky]

38. My side is the poor people of the world.

I don't get all caught up in that nationalistic bullshit, but you carry on.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

39. wow, you went a little Eugene Debs there for a minute!

Cool.

[asdjrocky]

48. That's gotta be one of the best-

coolest, neatest, grandest things anyone has ever said to me.

He is a real hero of mine.

[jah the baptist]

42. i thought we were talking about afghanistan

edited to say

im sure the poor of the world appreciate the fine work you are doing

[asdjrocky]

51. It's not good to be funny,

when you're not trying to be funny. Learn it.

[jah the baptist]

54. again, as a poor person and on behalf of we wretched of the earth

keep up the good work

your missives make our lives better daily

[asdjrocky]

63. Again, that funny thing.

You're just not funny. That's okay, I've never met a funny conservative, even the ones that think they are funny. Dennis Miller for example.

[jah the baptist]

64. what do conservatives have to do with this? nt

[asdjrocky]

65. Just an example of people who are not funny.

Why your not funny could just be because you're too mean and snarky to develop a sense of humor, but who knows.

[jah the baptist]

66. well we are in agreement about conservatives

and as far as me being funny

maybe my humor is over your head

anything is possible

[asdjrocky]

69. Anything is possible.

It's possible we could find common ground and become friends, but it's highly unlikely.

[jah the baptist]

70. olive branch accepted

i apologize for being a dick

[asdjrocky]

71. Thank you.

I don't like to do nothing but snark with people.

You have a good day.

[jah the baptist]

73. :-) eom

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. "My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." Thomas Paine

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. "Love it or leave it"? "My country right or wrong"?

"Patriotism is the most foolish of passions and the passion of fools." Thanks for proving Schopenhauer right.

[jah the baptist]

47. nice straw man nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. Nice sidestep to a response to your post.

[jah the baptist]

55. in the fight between the US and the Taliban my side is the US

how does that equate to

love it or leave it?

[AlabamaLibrul]

58. Are you suggesting....

That if you are not for this war you are on the side of the Taliban?

[jah the baptist]

59. another straw man nt

[AlabamaLibrul]

60. another dodge to a yes or no question. (eom)

[jah the baptist]

62. of course not

one could have no side at all, obviously

i do

[Binka]

56. Oh GO Away. AGAIN! Please NOBODY Cares What You Think. n/t

[jah the baptist]

57. now you tell me. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. deleted wrong place

[jgraz]

61. That Obama is willing to use the troops for political cover?

:shrug:

[OJones]

67. 7/28/10 update to Wikileaks.org:

Whistleblowers--

We now only accept submissions containing information on events that are reasonably similar to those surrounding the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Please send an outline of your documents to Jah the Baptist (at democraticunderground.com) before contacting Wikileaks. It is important to see if he or she, acting as arbiter on behalf of Wikileaks, finds your documents suitably comparable to the Tonkin incident before the process can continue.

If necessary, please bring Jah the Baptist out of "ignore status" in order to correspond.

[Warren Stupidity]

68. the pentagon papers revealed little that was new

but confirmed much of what had long been suspected, like for example the gulf of tonkin bullshit.

[jah the baptist]

72. OK this has gotten out of hand

I apologize to anyone I have been a jerk to here on this thread.

I still stand by my original point that I havent seen anything revealed so far that rises to the level of the Pentagon papers and that if the guy revealed names of people working clandestinely for us, I condemn that.

that doesnt mean it isnt there.

i just havent seen it.

and again, i apologize to any and all i have personally offended

especially the pot smoking guy