While preparing a class on poli sci

[nadinbrzezinski]

I have come to a very sad conclusion... partisans on both sides really miss how the government REALLY works. Of course I have subscribed to the Elite Model of power for a while. Why I have made reference to them in the past. What does this mean though? Well, this means that a few people essentially pull you by the nose while they do what they do. But preparing this has really emphasized this. We have an illusion of how much real influence we really have. Though from time to time we really do and those are very rare. There is more, they will become even more so as the century moves on.

I have to say this, not popular, but I will agree with Dahl. The age of democratic rule is very much over, and I mean small d... not party, I can see a few thinking I mean the party. There is more, we have less and less people in the country joining party cadres for either party. Oh and here is a statistic that might make this clear to you... about 20% of the population (on a good year) donates money, walks precincts or even decides to run for office.

Think about that.

[RandomThoughts]

1. They don't rule me.

:shrug:

And everyone makes a choice what they follow.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. I would recommend reading on elite models

by the way, to maintain peace and tranquility I am willing to bet the illusion will be kept.

[hfojvt]

3. all of those three are fairly substantial investments

donating money, walking precincts or running for office. I am not sure why you expect more people to do this.

The depressing thing is how seemingly few people educate themselves on the candidates or issues before they vote, even the few who DO vote.

edit: of course I am a lousy typist, but it would help if I could see.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Because MORE people used to do that

Americans, Europeans and others are increasingly disconnected from their governments. That worries Political Scientists by the way.

[Odin2005]

8. That is because the system is rigged by the Corporate Elites to emphasize Image and Personality...

...instead of Issues. God forbid people get concerned about issues, they might start questioning corporate power! That was blatantly obvious with Obama's campaign. It should have sent alarm bells ringing and I feel ashamed for falling for the glitter and charisma of a corporatist bootlicker.

[Odin2005]

4. Same as it ever was.

There have been a few short periods of popular rule in this country, but they never lasted long and The Elites always find a way to bring the system back fully in their hands. The current political partisan debate is a sham, giving us peons issues, that though they are important in their own way (like gay marriage), are minor in terms of the system of society. The vast majority are manipulated away from criticizing the system, indeed, they are manipulated from imagining that anything different is possible. While a large chick of the people that feel in their guts that something is horribly wrong are manipulated by the like of Beck and Limbaugh to blame the wrong people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. This is NOT about the US... but a global trend

[Odin2005]

10. It is more like anti-democratic Neo-Liberalism is now being imposed on the Western Core itself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. I wish one thing could be blamed for it

alas it can't

[malaise]

16. This has been going on for decades in developing countries

but the USA is now feeling the reality of the shock doctrine.
Devalue, divest, deregulate - remove the notion of government and speak of governance - rule by those who represent nothing but the market. Cut all social spending, mash up the unions, undermine those respected by citizens - teachers, nurses, blue collar workers and so on.
Dahl's position has changed over time so fugg him. The elitist argument about the alliances with military elite, economic elite and political elite doesn't work everywhere because many countries don't have a large dominant military elite.

Gramsci sums it up best for me - the capitalist state will defend that capitalist economic base whenever required. Political society and civil society work together to keep the system going. They will try to convince you with 'consent', but if that fails they will bring on the coercive apparati and crush you.
gr

[Odin2005]

17. I agree completely.

German historian Oswald Spengler, who was a German RW Nationalist but had some shocking prophetic ideas of the nature of Capitalist "Liberal Democracy" and the Mass media in a Capitalist "Liberal Democracy", had many of the same thoughts. The Elites are using force to impose on the world a global economic system without boundaries to capital flow, at the same time they use the media to manipulate the public.

[newspeak]

20. agree Odin

I think that the New World Order as publicly stated by Kissenger and Bush is the corporatization of the world. Where there are no governments to represent the people--and global corporations have so much influence that nationalism is a front to still pacify the proles. They pit us against each other, while the greediest of sociopaths gain more power and influence. Now I see a future more like the movie "Brazil".

It will take a mass global effort of all people to regain labor rights and address environmental concerns. Because some of the greediest would rather sell you air and water just to make an extra buck. That's why I thought the solution is to pull what little money we still have and walk away from them. Create our own businesses, invest in our own communities and initiate innovations to help globally.

Maybe a global union should be formed, to represent all labor, where anyone can join.

[Xipe Totec]

5. The irony of democracy

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0495501239/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0155058002&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0GKTH8GYEZ9FNN7G5NR3

[mrcheerful]

9. Funny how it is only when D's are in power that you hear how R's

want them to "work" with R's. Yet when R's are in power all you hear is "you lost deal with it". I understand Obama wanted to bring the country together because it is what is good for the country, sadly he misunderstood what the Reagan revolution was about, divide and destroy everything America stood for.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. That is particular to the US, to a point

but this is not about D... but d... small d democracy.

[mrcheerful]

13. Well they believe this is a republic only and that R stands for the true America

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. You are missing the whole point

this is NOT about any given faction or party... in the single model of elites, BOTH are members of the same power elite. IN a multi model, they are members of two competing elites. You and I are still the masses.

It matters little if the party is the D, R, or the right or left handed widget. You are mass, they are elite... stop thinking about this in partisan terms.

[mrdmk]

15. While working on my BA in Business with an emphasis in Accounting

I am fighting internally with many Economic principles presented to me. For starters, the supply/demand 'X' marks the spot is an oversimplification how business is conducted and rewarded. My Econ 320 Professors went through a number of examples of shifts and equilibrium of both supply and demand, covering every angle. After this gee-whiz mumble-jumble, the Professor confessed that this was "Bullshit", at best a group (business) can "get close" to their position in the market, maybe!!! Then he went one about regressions (using statics of the past to determine the future) and the accuracy of those results. In the end, the professor claimed the CEO's, managers, and entities (government, NGO's, etc) do use the numbers (research) as a tool, whereas 'Best' just know what to do and have the power/control implement their desires... That is just how it is!

The 'Best' as I say can be equated with the 'Elites' as you say. Comparing the size of population in the U.S.A. and the world verse the number of the 'Best/Elites', are the 'Best/Elites' to few are out of control? Another words, is power over concentrated at this moment? What, if anything needs/can be done about it?

This is what is brothering me at this moment... There are a small circle friends that control the boards of the Fortune 500 Corporations and wield their power with impunity! of course, there is more.

Thank-you nadinbrzezinski for bringing up the 'Elite Model', I love a dangerous discussion!

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. In the US it is a dangerous discussion

in Mexico you have this discussion on the TV at all times. Hell people talk of the elites in places you'd go what? Yep, teaching CPR to factory workers a few years back they got into a theoretical and DEEP discussion on elite theory... and a little Marxism to boot. It is one of those that takes you by surprise if you are an American. Hell, I was talking deep political theory with my plumber, (originally from mexico) just the other day. Yes they asked me what I thought about that during a break... against the rules to discuss politics, in uniform, so I had to be careful in how much I could say or not.

Now in defense of supply\ demand... in the multi level, ideal economy that Smith imagined... it would work. In a monopoly driven economy it don't. That is why I go... GIVE ME A LITTLE CAPITALISM and break them up!

[Angry Dragon]

19. Let the little people at the bottom

fight each other while the ones at the top continue on their destructive way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. This is not about the little people fighting each other

but the little people understanding how things actually work. First step in any battle is intelligence... this is intelligence.

But this is the kind of discussion that only happens in the high realms of academe in the US, not in the local paper, or even the local Union Hall.