If you're considering not voting this election to send a message, just remember this...

[tex-wyo-dem]

Center-right is a whole lot better than batshit-crazy, flying monkey, ass-on-fire fundamentalist, hardcore fascist right!

That is basically the choices we have. I would put my money on the centerists any day and work to push them left.

Just saying.

[bottomofthehill]

1. well said

[demmiblue]

2. Blah, blah, blah....

we know!

[SeattleGirl]

4. Some folks around these parts don't, though.

I've seen a number of posts about not wanting to vote, or posts trying to encourage DUers to stay home. Truly dumb.

[demmiblue]

8. Oh, B.S.!

There are no posts encouraging people not to vote.

I wouldn't want to vote for some of them, myself. Luckily I have someone I want to vote for!

As long as they vote, NBFD.

[SeattleGirl]

11. Sorry, but it's not bullshit.

There have been people advocating for people to stay home and not vote for Democrats this time out to "teach them a lesson" and such. They mostly pop up over in GDP.

[demmiblue]

12. Sure...

links? I know you cannot post them, but you can PM them.

[SeattleGirl]

13. I'll have to do a little searching.

I know most of them have been locked.

[demmiblue]

17. Come to think of it, there was one person who said...

that they would be voting all Dem, with they exception of one politician. I wonder if that is the person you are thinking of.

[SeattleGirl]

40. Well, I just looked at the first 20 pages of GDP.

Looked at every post in the first 10 pages (though not every response to every post; I don't have time to do that), and then looked at the locked posts in the last 20 pages.

I did not find one where the OP said they would not vote, but again, I know I've seen that. Or seen people saying they will vote Green Party or some other party, because the Democrats are bad, liars, insincere, (those are the adjectives I seem to recall).

So, I can't PM you concrete examples, and for that, I apologize.

I do know that I've seen that kind of talk here. Not from a lot of people, but from some.

And I do know that some of those comments were deleted.

[demmiblue]

48. I thank you for your honesty.

But really, just because some of us do not like the direction of this administration, it does not mean we want to see republicans come to power.

:hi:

[SeattleGirl]

49. True enough.

I'm just saying that I've seen people advocate for voting for people in other parties, not for Democrats.

:hi:

[demmiblue]

54. I guess it comes down to the fact...

that many do not have good candidates to vote for. It is a hard situation to have to be able to forgo what you know what is good and right in order to vote for... meh.

I am lucky in that I have someone that I want to vote for!

Go Virg!


Peace, SeattleGirl

[SeattleGirl]

56. Virg? Are you in Michigan?

I'm in Seattle (obviously), and I'm definitely getting out there to vote for Patty Murray. No way in HELL I want Dino Rossi to win. Yech!

I do understand that there are people on DU who don't have very good choices to vote for, which is really unfortunate. I just hope they reconsider, because handing the keys over to the Republicans would be a nightmare!

Peace back at you, demmiblue!

[demmiblue]

57. Ha!

Somewhere on DU I saw that you visited our fine state. In fact, I think you met up with one of our hard lefties (or two).

I think that we have to sometimes realize that, despite small differences, we are all on the same side!


Take care, SeattleGirl.


:hug:



P.S. I will still challenge you! :rofl:

[SeattleGirl]

58. My sword is at the ready!

And I must warn you, I've taken fencing lessons, so watch out! :rofl:

:hug: <--back at you!

[demmiblue]

60. And I must warn you....

ok... I have nothing.


:rofl:

[SeattleGirl]

62. LOL!

Good one! :rofl:

[grantcart]

70. can you two get a room?

honest discussions at DU are considered suspicious behavior and not encouraged. There are minors that come here you know.

[MadMaddie]

86. I also live in the Seattle area and will be voting for Patty Murray

that piece of shit that is running against her is as crooked as they come.

[kath]

50. just curious-- what's a quick way to find locked threads?

[SeattleGirl]

52. The only way I know of is to look at pages in any given forum

and look for the ones with a padlock on them.

[kath]

55. well, DUH, ain't I a moran?!! Never noticed the padlock thingy before.

Thanks!

[MadMaddie]

85. SeattleGirl I will back you up and agree I have seen

similar posts.

I will search for them too.

[demmiblue]

30. Oh yeah, I do remember someone else saying that they would vote

for anyone else that wasn't DLC.

Those are the only two that I have seen.


Anyone else?

[NYC_SKP]

19. People have advocated not voting, still others will vote but not for Democrats.

Nothing particularly new, actually.

[demmiblue]

21. Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga

[babylonsister]

38. I can think of one immediately, blatantly. You aren't wrong, SG. nt

[SeattleGirl]

42. Thanks, sister.

As I just posted, I did look through the first 20 pages of GDP, and couldn't find a specific OP where the person said they wouldn't be voting this time, but I know I've seen them. I don't have time to read every response to every thread, and as I also said, I know some of those responses where the person said they wouldn't vote got zapped.

[babylonsister]

53. Here:

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x431559#431562

There's more from this one; wild.


:hug:

[SeattleGirl]

59. Ah yes.

I did see that. Thanks for the link though.

:hug:

[EstimatedProphet]

15. The hell there's not

[demmiblue]

20. Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga

[EstimatedProphet]

26. Gort Klaatu barada nikto

[demmiblue]

33. Y'all are getting yourselves into a tizzy.

We are voting Dem.

:rofl:

[EstimatedProphet]

41. I hope you're right

It would be nice if people had the sense to not stay home and let Boehner take over the House.

[SeattleGirl]

43. The thought of him being Speaker gives me nightmares.

:scared:

[Rhiannon12866]

61. During the 2004 "primary wars,"

right here on DU, I remember reading posts by folks who threatened to vote for Bush* if their candidate didn't win the nomination. You're right about some folks, even here. x( Fortunately, they're in the minority...

[SeattleGirl]

63. Yes, they are, and I too am glad of it.

And glad that their idiotic posts get zapped.

[Rhiannon12866]

66. I was somewhat new to DU, but I still was blown away by those posts...

Things were as divisive then as they ever were, and I wonder when people talk about the "good old days" here, LOL, since we've always had our issues, no doubt always will... ;) :shrug:

[tavalon]

71. A month ago, maybe two

I haven't seen any since then. I was one of the people complaining about how the Democrats are treating us like abused spouses and we are acting like them. But the thing is, our choice is abuse or extreme abuse and sitting it out guarantees extreme abuse. So, we're holding our noses once again, voting for the Dems and hoping for a crumb or two or at least lube. We are insane (doing the same thing and expecting different results) but we're not stupid.

[SeattleGirl]

3. I for one have no intention of NOT voting. I couldn't even

imagine sitting it out.

Here in Washington state, Patty Murray (D) is being challenged by Dino Rossi (R-Asshat). He's lost twice before, last time in the Governor's race. I'm hoping he's gonna be three for three.

[tavalon]

74. Yes, indeedy

While Patty Murray is a yawner, Dino Rossi is most assuredly a slimy asshat. I'd vote for a ficus before I'd vote for him and sitting out is tantamount to voting for him. I want him to finally, finally get the message that we don't like him, we really don't like him. Certain people in Washington are slow to understand that, though. Tim Eyeman comes to mind. He just doesn't get that we don't like him and we don't like his message, but we especially don't like him. It does make it easy when one of his bullshit initiatives is on the ballot. No research needed. I don't vote for a Tim Eyeman initiative and I don't vote for a Dino Rossi. Ever.

[Scurrilous]

5. K & R

:thumbsup:

[tex-wyo-dem]

6. I posted this because I've seen...

Comments on other boards and DU those considering it best if the Dems lost control of the House...this would "send a message".

This is a poor tactic to put it mildly.

[gateley]

10. Yeah, it'll send a message to us -- that we had no idea how bad it could REALLY be. nt

[EstimatedProphet]

16. It'll send a message all right - "AMERICA VOTES REPUBLICAN"

[tex-wyo-dem]

18. Yep...and that's exactly how the media ans rethugs will play it up...

The only message sent will be that the country is "right of center" and the teabaggers won.

[TheDebbieDee]

7. Let's not let the repukes get subpoena power..............

or they'll spend the next 2 years investigating every action ever taken by President Obama. It will be a slow-motion lynching.

[tavalon]

75. Let's turn out in mass to vote supermajorities of "Dems" in the House and Senate

It'll be worth it just to see them try to explain why they still can't get anything done, even with supermajorities. I'm not actually kidding. I'm calling it the spite vote.

[dflprincess]

9. The people who are going to stay home are those who are not that engaged in the political process

between elections.

They are the people who voted for "change" in 2008 and are now disillusioned with the whole process. Many of them are people whose personal economic situations have gotten worse in the last two years and they don't have a lot of faith that any party will do anything to make it better.

[tex-wyo-dem]

14. Yep...totally agree, but it's up to us who are politically active...

To reach as many of these people we can and convince them that the alternative is a WHOLE lot worse.

GOTV!

[napi21]

22. Agreed, but we MUST explain to them that the Pubs will

just make their problems WORSE!

Norm Goldman was talking about similar things this past week, and he said "Deciding to remove the Dems you are unhappy with is only 50% of fixing a problem. The other 50% is who do you replace them WITH?" No matter how much you are disallusioned with the Dems currently in office, it would be completely STUPID to replace hem with soeone WORSE!

[pstokely]

24. Those types usually stay home during midterm elections anyway

nt

[babylonsister]

27. Yawn. There are also a lot of young people who don't do

mid-terms; doesn't mean they are disillusioned despite your best efforts to characterize it otherwise. As usual, doom and gloom. What's your agenda?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=433&topic_id=429977

The New York Times' Latest Bogus Trend Story.

snip//

The Democrats do have a problem with young people, but it isn't that they've abandoned the party. The problem is that young people don't turn out in midterm elections, while old people do, and old people are much more heavily Republican. The Obama campaign registered and activated huge numbers of young people, but it will be a difficult task to get them to the polls in November. That is their youth problem.

[dflprincess]

37. Okay Pollyanna, what do we tell them to get them out to vote?

Not the young ones, I wasn't talking about them. I was talking about the middle aged ones who hang up as soon as you tell them you're calling for the Democrats or who tell you they aren't voting because "there isn't any differnce" or "they're all crooks".

What do we tell the middle aged voter who has been out of work a year? Maybe we can play the "Glad Game" and tell them to be happy they lost their job while the Democrats were in control? Do you think that will work?

[babylonsister]

46. Tell them to give up? Is that your solution?

How about telling them that the rethugs have been trying to thwart every effort to get progress done? That's a difficult chore when even you don't 'get' it.
Here's two off the top of my head:

every time attempts were made to help the unemployed, the rethugs were against it.

this small business bill the Dems want to issue, the rethugs are against it.

Every time anything is attempted, the rethugs are against it (and Ben Nelson). It might not be working, but it's not for a lack of trying. Consistently.

So because folks are in a bad way, they will vote for the other party, that wants to keep them there? It's a proven fact, as is the fact that most Americans are not involved in the day-to-day reality. Vote for the other party because they're hurting? Proven fact the other party is keeping them down.

I think that's indisputable, but the Dems' messaging is not loud enough. And the media isn't helping.

[dflprincess]

72. That only works if they stay on the phone long enough to listen to the spiel

and I'm calling off the 2010 caucus lists so these were people who have shown some interest in politics. Some are fed up with the "compromises" made and they don't give a damn what the Republicans are doing - they expect the Democrats to act and whining that it's the other guy's fault doesn't cut it with them. They know there are ways around the obstruction (nuclear option comes to mind) but that the Democrats have been reluctant to actually do anything.

Really, if the Dems were all that upset with the Republicans why didn't they go on the attack long before they figured out their own jobs were at risk? Obama should have taken the to airwaves about Republican obstruction during the "health care" debate - rather than abandoning us for the sake of some imagined "bipartisanship". Many of the people I've spokien to are pissed about the insurance bill. They were expecting real reform and no longer trust the Democrats to follow through on anything. What do I tell them "but the Democrats still aren't as bad as Republicans"?

The worse part is, the only federal offices Minnesota has to deal with this year are the House seats, but the lack of action on the part of D.C. Democrats is trickling down to hurt DFL candidates for the state legislature. We had a chance this year to keep the legislature and take back the governorship and get a single payer bill passed here, but the sell outs in D.C. have made it a lot harder to do so.

[RandomThoughts]

23. I agree people should vote.

But the problem of having to vote for one of those two makes a false paradymn. And it is created for a reason.

Fox gives cover to the left to be center right.


There is a legitimate argument that it is better to let them destroy everything if that is what is required to fix things.

Although I would not join into such destruction, so would not support them, but it is an argument that can be made.


On a side note, I am still due financing for beer and travel.

[EstimatedProphet]

28. So you're OK with the country getting destroyed?

Certainly generous of you.

[RandomThoughts]

36. that is not my choice.

I will not sell out my values if someone threatens to destroy the world. Destroying America is thinking way to small, destroy all space and time, now that is something to think on. And it seems that is what people want to do.

I will not do it nor be part of it, but such a threat wont get me to vote for someone who is only a little better. Although I think most democrats are more then a little better, if people don't stand up to moneyed interest then things wont change for the better.


So I am ok with the free will choice of people destroying the world, since that would be their choice. To not be ok with it would be taking the choice away from the 1% that is doing that with obscene consolidation of wealth. Although they think it will only hurt other people, I believe in equal blanket justice across everything, since in truth all are guilty of something anyways.


It is not generous, since it is not what I give or about me. And besides even if it was, I am due financing for beer and travel, so go fuck yourself :)

Hows that :)

What I will do, is listen to music.
Spandau Ballet - Through The Barricades
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLR9yyI9CHg

[EstimatedProphet]

45. I won't have to go fuck myself

Seems you're bound and determined to let us all get fucked, and then sit back and say "Oh well, too bad."

My values actually involve trying to do something about impending catastrophe. But then, I actually have some values.

[RandomThoughts]

51. What?

Me let people 'get fucked' you presume I have some say in it.

If I had say in it, then wouldn't someone have listened to the many reasoned comment I made?


And I don't sit, So if you are involved, what would that involvement be? How would you 'do something' maybe try to show people what is going on...

And then when they don't listen what would you do...

As far as you having values, good for you. Are you saying I have no values? LOL That is how the whole problem started.



And actually you will, you just don't know it yet.

[western mass]

25. A friendly reminder from the DLC:

shut up and do as you're told.

[babylonsister]

29. Easy to write. I'd be amazed if you could explain that statement. nt

[SeattleGirl]

44. Goodness, but I've never been told to shut up by the DLC.

Could you provide a quote from them?

[tavalon]

77. Are you mistaking the DLC for the DNC?

Too many TLAs if you ask me. Rahm, poster child for the DLC, called us fucking retards because we wouldn't just shut up and let the DLC run their scam, er, agenda.

The DNC, while becoming irrelevant at a pace that is dizzying, has never told us to shut up. They have tried to assist us with message discipline but were Democrats, so that's just laughable.

I'm contributing to Patty Murray, Alan Grayson and the only organization I'm contributing to is DFA. OFA is off my list and if there were some organization actively trying to take out the DLC, I would certainly contribute to that. I'm voting straight Dem but I am not going to be a ground troop this time. I've been able to justify playing the abused spouse one more time but I can't with a straight face GOTV, because I would have to lie or tell the unvarnished truth. And while I'm a political junkie, I call a spade a spade and the Dems have been playing us for the last two years and I see nothing changing. And I don't think my form of GOTV would be in the least bit useful: "vote for Democrats because they are only indifferent and ineffectual rather than batshit crazy". Please let me know if you think that might be effective GOTV and I will put on my walking shoes but my message will be word for word just what I wrote.

[EstimatedProphet]

47. Here's a friendly reminder from me:

Shut up and don't make it easier for Boehner to take over the House.

[defendandprotect]

65. We need to get DLC corporate poison out of the White House and the Party!!

[LWolf]

80. +1

[EstimatedProphet]

31. I don't think people who don't care whether the Repubs win have thought about it

I certainly have, though, and here's why it bothers me so much:

The repubs have taken to bullying and abusive behavior in the form of the teabaggers. They are openly racist bullies and fanatics. Everyone knows this. Even they know it, although they deny it. Their denials are laughable.

So what the hell will the message be if they win? If bullying and open racism results in won elections, how are we ever going to even attempt working toward any progressive goals whatsoever? If the teabagger candidates win and repubs get a majority back in Congress, this country will become a hillbilly version of Saudi Arabia overnight.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

32. What the hell is a "centerist"? (n/t)

[DesertFlower]

34. i agree. nt

[Sapphocrat]

35. A sincere request.

Will you and everybody else STOP FUCKING NAGGING THE REST OF US, as if we'd never heard this before?

Thank you.

P.S. "centrists," not "centerists."

[tavalon]

79. Sorry, this is the rallying of the troops part of the season

I hate seeing it too, but this is what DU does and will continue to do until the day of voting. The day after will either be a group hug or a group excoriation. Likely a combination of the two.

[TreasonousBastard]

39. Stumbling on as we are is certainly better than Speaker Boehner.

[tavalon]

81. I agree with you marginally

It's kind of hard to take potshots at Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi but it's imminently easy to take potshots at the Oompa Loompa. But comedy aside, the orange bastard can do a lot of damage as the speaker so the amusement factor must be a non-factor at this juncture in time.

[defendandprotect]

64. No one is looking to go anywhere but to the LEFT ....

granted that may take targeting some right wing Democrats and trying to replace

them with more liberal Dems --

This party is in the hands of corporations -- think we can defeat them?

Meanwhile, we obviously need a more liberal Democratic presidential candidate in 2012!!

[Marr]

67. Really? I doubt the right could cut Social Security.

The Center-Right certainly can, as long as they affix a nice "Democratic" label to their names.

[Raster]

68. I am not overly thrilled with the Democrats and Team Obama for several reasons, HOWEVER

the alternative is unthinkable. I will vote a straight (ouch!) ticket, if necessary.

[OnionPatch]

69. The problem is, they will misinterpret your not voting

to mean they didn't veer far enough to the right this election cycle.

I plan to vote strategically, as always. My first priority is to keep the batshit-crazy, flying monkeys out of office. Meanwhile, I'll work on supporting viable progressives, fighting propaganda and election reform. (We need to change our system so people aren't throwing away their votes when they vote third party.)

[Capitalocracy]

73. 1. How would you push them left? 2. Not voting doesn't send a message...

... unless it's part of an organized voter boycott (something we seem to know nothing about in the U.S.)

An organized voter boycott sends a very powerful message that our votes are not free for candidates that don't work for us. It shows that there is an organized and passionate movement just ready to support anyone who comes along who will actually work for them. Just staying home sends the message that you're willing to drop out of politics and make it easier for them to keep screwing you over.

[kenny blankenship]

76. Send a message TO WHOM? The corporate fluffers who don't listen, regardless?

Why even bother. No I am not "sending a message." You have to have a recipient in mind to send a message. There is no one to receive at the other end. I already know that any message that isn't from a corporate PAC isn't even going to be opened at that address. Stamps cost money and there's a depression on everywhere but DC.

[LWolf]

78. I've never considered not voting to send a message.

I have, and will, vote 3rd party or write a better Democrat in when a message needs to be sent.

We have three choices. We can vote for anyone on our ballot, we can not vote, we can write someone in. I will always choose one of the first two.

[TBF]

82. Unrec because it doesn't work.

We have been trying that for thirty years - how much longer can we do something that has no chance of working?
I don't advocate voting for repubs or third parties either.

What we need to do is most certainly NOT in the voting booth. Go vote dem, that's fine, but then we march to Washington and tell them we need jobs. The strikes and marches are infinitely more important than the voting. It's the only way we the workers get any change.

[DailyGrind51]

83. When Dems stay home, we get Ronald Reagan!

[TBF]

84. We seem to get RR either way -

check out the policies of this administration so far. He'd love the committee to cut Social Security for instance ...